Ixthos

@Yata True, I think that due to how the Cosmere has been written it could be argued that there are no undead, but for the constructs types of undead all that is needed for something to be undead is for something that has died to now be animated, and for - as you noted - the ghost types it is someone who died physically but their mind remains in another world that touches the world of the living. Shards still have living bodies, so it could be argued they are still alive, but Kelsier having died, his body reduced to bones, he definitely fits the criteria of ghost, as he still hangs around. Ultimately, if the Cosmere has undead or just complex constructs that are based on formally living bodies or persisting minds depends entirely on how undead is defined. I didn't include Koloss because - unless I am mistaken - they can't be killed by removing the spikes that made them, while a steel inquisitor dies without the spikes that made them, and if the spikes weren't hemalurgic they themselves would have killed them - much like a headless horseman is considered undead because how can it survive without a head?

Something I've been wondering about is taking up a shard if someone already has some differences from the standard understanding of taking up a shard. The normal way it has been shown is someone with one body, one mind or soul, and one spirit, taking it up, and so expanding their mind, loosing their body - theoretically it being stored much like a shard blade - and their spirit binding into the shard. They then can sense all three realms, affect them, and control the power of the shard as though it were their own body. But what if there are these four conditions, three of which I think are very very similar ... Spren The first scenario is that of a spren taking up a shard. Spren, or splinters in general, lake a physical body, but some, such as cognitive shadows, can regain their physical form, or like Nightblood, be bound into one. Theoretically, there is no distinction between a spren and a cognitive shadow, and a Returned is similar to a normal human. If a Returned could take up a shard, then so could any other cognitive shadow - assuming, of course, that a Return could. Of course, in Secret History, it was shown that, under the right circumstances, a cognitive shadow could take up a shard without a physical body, though in a reduced state. So, I think that a spren would likewise be capable of doing so, even lacking a physical body. However, I remember reading that Brandon has said that its complicated with spren taking up shards, having said before that he isn't ready to talk about it, or that the question isn't well said. With that in mind, I think that one should also consider that Brandon has said that if they did, they would combine into a larger shard, and has said shards can gain their own minds if left by themselves. I don't see how a spren, with its own mind, is any different from a person with their own spirit made of investiture taking up a shard. If there are any differences, then how is Kelsier any different? That might be revealed. Knights Knights are bound, a spren becoming a part of their spirits. If a Knight took up a shard, I think the spren would also gain access to the shard, the two sharing it, or the spren as a subordinate to the knight, but still able to act independently. The spren lakes a physical body, but is part of the knight. Shardblades require the bond to the knight, and so might not be considered bodies, but together the spren, as part of the knight, would be connected to the shard, and have access to it. It might also be, however, that their minds would merge, and so the spren would become a part of the person with the shard, and might only be a separate being again after the shard is released, if it is. Several This is an expansion of the knights idea, but now with several people involved. I think that each person, assuming they don't fight one another when trying to take up the shard, and also not fighting one another when using the shards, would be in complete control of the shard, while sharing that control, able to act independently of the others, and able to work with them, possibly leave the planet and the others, and possibly be able to give that control away while the others continue to retain their power. If my theory about how Stormlight will end is correct, then ten spren and the ten people they are bonded to will take up Honour and a mixture of Cultivation or Odium, and so resolve the damage left to their system, much like a counter to Harmony - instead of one person with two, it will be ten or twenty people taking up one, or one and a half, maybe more. Multiple personality disorder Fiction often portrays multiple personality disorder differently to how it often manifests, and confuses it with schizophrenia. This is not to evaluate how fiction portrays it differently, but rather to consider it from the perspective that it usually is shown, that of several minds in one body. I think this would be very similar to the several people example given, and I think it might also be what happened with Bavadin, Autonomy being the shard taken by someone with multiple minds that wanted to have their own autonomy, and so took the shard that would let them be able to act independently, but also able to co-operate. I think that Bavadin's mind had several female personas, assuming Bavadin is male, and that the avatars are a mixture of those original personalities, and new ones that they formed, possibly formed according to specific criteria. This could also explain why Brandon likes Autonomy so much, as it lets a single shard be antagonist and protagonist, the different avatars fighting amongst themselves, and also governed by a council of the stronger and theoretically more temperate.

The Cosmere has several types of undead. Attempting to list those shown so far, and including a few redundancies, those so far shown are: Sel Skeletals - the name is descriptive, they are necromantic skeletons, completely controlled by the bloodseals - they are, in effect, constructs that serve a function, rather than mindful creatures. Svrakiss - ghosts able to possess humans, though not yet shown to be actual beings on the planet yet, rather hinted at, and maybe the same as the Fused. Scadrial Steel inquisitors. Though not what one would typically think of as undead, they are animated by hemalurgy, with the removal of certain spikes killing them - spikes which themselves would be the cause of death if they hadn't rearranged the organs. They are like vampires, being associated with blood, stakes, and stealing the soul. Kelsier. A unique example, as cognitive shadows wouldn't normally hang around in Scadrial without a regular way of forming. Roshar Fused - like Svrakiss, they are ghosts able to possess the bodies of Singers, and possibly also humans, though the extent of their control of humans is not fully known. They might also be the so-called "Faceless Immortals" of the Set, counters to the Kandra, with their faceless nature and immortality being rather by stealing bodies rather than mimicking them. Heralds - I wouldn't have put them on this list where it not for the fact that, like Returned and Kelsier, and Fused, they are cognitive shadows, and Returned, their closest analogue, are considered undead. Threnody Shades - ghosts that haunt the forest. Difficult to directly place in terms of their minds, they are halfway between the two different types of undead, being neither controlled like constructs, or with their own full will like fused. They aren't fully material, but can touch physical objects. Unlike other cognitive shadows, they are not implied to be able to possess others. Nalthis Lifeless - like Skeletals, they are necromantic constructs. If Skeletals are skeletons, then Lifeless are zombies, though it is possible to make a lifeless from nothing more than bones, and unlike skeletals, they are implied to be capable of more thought than their nature indicates, and might possibly be able to make their own choices Returned - though I wouldn't consider them as such, they are considered similar to lifeless, and in some parts of Nalthis they are seen as vampires, needing to take from others in order to live. Part of the reason for listing this is to consider other types of undead that might show up in other Cosmere novels, or might be present on the worlds already mentioned. There are two broad categories for two axes, being the intelligent / construct axis, and the physical / cognitive axis. Physically intelligent undead include Returned, Heralds, and Steel Inquisitors, with the first and third being very similar to vampires; Physical construct undead include Skeletals and Lifeless, with lifeless possibly straddling the line between construct and intelligent. Cognitive intelligent undead include bodiless Fused, Svrakiss, and Kelsier, basically all cognitive shadows, and all possibly able to make the jump back to physical bodies; Cognitive construct undead don't seem to fit on this list, though Shades might, while they also might fit on the centre of the axes, being both cognitive but able to affect the physical, not under anyone's control but also limited in what they can choose to do, with a few exceptions ... So, can anyone else think of any other possible types of undead that might show up? A magic system that could let someone take control of cognitive shadows, or staple a cognitive shadow to a physical construct?

@Bigmikey357 I do see your point, though I disagree with it. For shardblades, my point is that the spren that transform into them have different abilities, and at least some of the spren can use the surges, but when they become physical they all behave the same, even dead blades are the same only unable to change form. Disregarding intelligence, I am not saying that the plate should have access to the surges, only that the surges can be used to turn stormlight into plate, much as one can forge metal or caste it, or carve your name into a piece of wood or burn it - the plate is the same, maybe with some background abilities, but formed using the surges. Still stormlight, but the method it solidified differing. For the computer example, I agree that you can't just swap out pieces of hardware between different venders, or even expect the same code to run. I don't think it fully matches up with the plate example, though, as I think, due to surgebinding sharing a common origin, it isn't so much swapping out parts between a Mac and a PC, but rather between two different versions of a PC - my old computer was made from parts my dad got from work, depriciated, outdated components used in other machines that themselves were running other versions of Windows. I wouldn't be able to do this with a Mac and a PC, but between two different versions of a PC that both are able to run Windows that becomes a common practice. If other systems, like AonDor, had the equivalent of plate, that would be like a Mac and a PC, but between two different surgebiner order's sets of plate, both powered by spren sharing a common set of shards, I don't think the issue applies. And again, I also think the plate is still essentially the same as stormlight, so it would be closer to getting an organ donated by a twin, or swapping out the wheels on a vehicle. The same material made into the same shape with different processes but still the same, like a piece of chipboard cut with a saw blade or a laser cutter or simply snapping it in half. I like your arguments Bigmikey, and you have made me rethink parts of this theory. I still think it is right, but I do know it could be mistaken. Either way, the fact we both think the idea, whether or not it works, could be a cool event in the series is a promising sign! :-D

And again :-P

@MountainKing Could work :-) though I also am starting to think that there might be a little more to it, and combining this idea with the idea of Dustbringers being able to produce lightning and or flame, in that maybe Dustbringers cause the stormlight to become fire or lightning that then congeals into plate, so each manifests the stormlight as the element linked to the order, so wind for Windrunners, smoke for Skybreakers, etc. So the division wouldn't be inverted so much as used to make the stormlight take on the appearance and properties of fire, and thus "burn" into plate.

I see your point, and it is fair, but I disagree for one main reason - shardblades. Each spren is clearly different form the others, each has access to different surges, such as Syl being able to use adhesion herself, and Pattern not being able to become invisible, and yet when they become shardblades they have the same capabilities, only changed into solid material with a unique physical appearance - the only difference between them when shardblades is how they look, while when not shardblades they are capable to performing different functions. While I agree that two different OSes running on two different machines are clearly different, even at their most basic, a lot of what is either differences in how they perform the same tasks, or visual differences in the shell. More complex functions, like running specific programs are indeed different, but at the core they both possess datapaths and control paths, registers and program counters - the peripherals might be different, and have different functions or require unique programs to run on them to control them, they are still the same fundamentally at their lowest level. And all spren on Roshar are made from a combination of two shards, excluding Odium. It could be argued that they are all infact running the equivalent of the same operating system on the equivalent of similar hardware, only with a few cosmetic differences. Still, you do have a good point, though I disagree with it :-) I just think that the plates would still be the same material - condensed stormlight and possibly symbiotic spren - shaped by the surges, in the same way that you can make metal sculptures or tools using different techniques, though some techniques - like alloying or folding the metal - will add additional properties to the material which might only be noticed if one has experimented with the material in ways that might not be obvious to those who use them.

Fair point, but those distinctions could be fairly subtle, and might only be possible if the plate is being actively provided with stormlight from a radiant, rather than gemstones. I don't have it infront of me, but I remember somewhere with Dalinar when he was in plate that it seemed to reorient itself, or something about being able to keep a firm grip - I remember someone also posted about that on the forum, but I don't know where. Those could be the different functions being performed, so it might be that dead plate is unique, but not commonly noticed by those who use them.

I don't think this theory has been proposed before, but I have seen others which include parts of it, so I apologise if this is something that has been mentioned. I think each order of Knight Radiant gains their plate in a different way, but a way that is similar across the orders - mainly, I think they use a combination of surges and spren. In short, the theory is that the non-sapient, lesser spren form a scaffolding for the plate, and then one or both surges are used together by the knight to form the plate across the spren scaffolding, which then leave once the plate is formed, whether or not they are needed again to reform the plate is something I don't know, and maybe the lesser spren don't leave, instead becoming part of the plate, but uncaring in much the same way bacteria in the body, like gut bacteria, don't care, as they are symbiotically part of something which provides for them, even as it confines them in a way. The main origin of this theory is how Shallan's radiant persona had plate, lightwoven but also somehow partially real. It also is about how the different orders also seem to attract lesser spren when exemplifying their order or using surges strongly, such as windspren for Kaladin, gloryspren for Dalinar, lifespren for Lift. I think, therefore, that the combination of surges with spren becomes plate, and could explain how each order gains plate at a different time, and can be both unique - there isn't a single answer to where the plate comes from - while also being the same. I propose that each order gains their plate in the following manner: Bondsmiths and Windrunners use adhesion on the stormlight surrounding their lesser spren scaffold, Bondsmiths possibly also using tension to make the stormlight solid Skybreakers and Dustbringers use division to break down stormlight into solid plate - the least strong part of this theory, but see the note at the end Edgedancers and Truthwatchers use progression, making the plate slightly alive, something growing out of the spren surrounding, and lightweaving possibly turning an illusion plate into solid plate Lightweavers and Elsecallers use transformation, making the air around them part of the plate, or transforming stormlight, with lightweavers also solidifying the stormlight illusion into solid matter Willshapers and Stonewards affect the strength of the stormlight, making it solidify around them, making the plate from stormlight One additional thought - it might be that no single radiant can form their plate initially, and so the two main support radiants would need to help, and so plate requires the surges of tension and adhesion or the surges of progression and illumination to complete plate in addition to the surges of the radiant.

Again, some additional ideas both others and myself can use

@ND103, first off, cool theory :-) I like the idea, though I don't fully agree with it. I think that Nightblood will take up either all of or most of the shard Odium, with the rest - if it doesn't take up the full shard - combining with Honour and possibly parts of Cultivation, which themselves are then taken up by 10 of the characters - so Nightblood holding Odium, Cultivation maybe dead or maybe still active, and the rest a combined shard, which would match the focus on 10. Nightblood holding Odium would then be hatred of evil, and potentially the ability to identity evil - hatred isn't bad unless misplaced The rest of the Cosmere I think might have two endings - I think it all depends if the shards can give up full control of the shard while retaining it. Either all the shards will combine, and then leave the galaxy to start again elsewhere, or the shards will partially combine, so each remains seperate, each still holding its own unique shard, but a new intelligence holding access to all 16 likewise would exist, and then leave the galaxy, but with the shards also remaining behind, sort of like Autonomy's avatars - which I think each holds the shard equally, each able to control the same amount of it, or how Honour will be held by 10 people - with the parts of the power in the galaxy remaining under their control but the rest under the control of the new combined intelligence. So I think Nightblood would remain behind, making the best possible use of Odium. That's my take on it, anyway :-)

I've already posted a theory outlining the idea of each order having unique abilities in addition to their resonance already - see here - but I would like to focus on each individually as well, as I think each possibility as a subject also could make sense. I think lightweaving - all surges, actually - have three modes. The first is the basic properties of the surge, which the orders that have it can all potentially use, such as Bondsmiths and Windrunners can all make things adhere, and Windrunners and Skybreakers can make things move according to a new gravitational vector. Each might be able to access the full range of these abilities, but it might be only a subset is available. The second and third are using the surge with a neighbour, so - and this is hypothetical - Windrunners being able to perform reverse lashings, while I suspect Skybreakers can't, but instead make objects break apart, or how Jasnah was able to transmit a transformation across several people - indeed, I think part of this filters back to the knights uses of each singular surge as well, as Shallan has to convince while Jasnah has to force. So, when I say lightweaving I mean illumination, available to both Lightweavers and Truthwatchers. As the pole says, I think lightweaving has several uses, the most striking to me is that of lasers, followed closely by that of radio. I think if radio is possible, then it would mainly be lightweavers with access to it, as cryptics like patterns, so encoding radio would be something they could both do and find facinating. Truthwatchers, with the implication of watching, also might be able to do that, and might also be able to use it to see far off things, focusing light. However, the main ability I think they both might have is the ability to make a focused beam or continuous pulse of either sound or light in order to damage or blind or stun. I will get to how this meshes with Truthwatchers, but I think that it makes sense if they can produce sounds and light that they can make a focused beam or pulse of either at sufficient levels to be dangerous. Lightweavers can possibly apply a permanent illusion to a fabrial, and might be able to bake the illusion an activation system, both allowing the fabrial to be controlled via three dimensional interface, as well as switching on when the fabrial has stormlight, the illusion appearing once stormlight is present. They also definitely can change people - possibly their resonance, or another combined power - but they also might be able to perform more extensive changes to objects than Elsecallers can - while Elsecallers might be able to make part of something change, other than a liquid, I think by applying a lightweaving to something they might be able to use transformation to make it match the illusion, much like forgery. Truthwatchers are focused on healing and helping, so it might not make much sense for them to be able to hurt people with lasers. But if they can fire a spiritual laser with a focus on removing harmful investiture ... Truthwatchers are closest to the idea of cultivation, and cultivation is also pruning and cutting away, and removing parasites. A beam of light that kills enemies and heals allies would be something that makes sense, and a general wave of light that heals all allies nearby would likewise be both illumination and healing. Lastly, as they are watchers, if they could use illumination to make an image of things that happened before - a progression of events in the past - they could also be detectives, and could use past events to better understand how to help those in need. What do you think? Any abilities to add, or are some of these a stretch? :-)

I'll see your post and r- ... actually, I don't play poker, so ... Core books are Dragonsteel, Mistborn, Stormlight Archive, and Elantris

@Szmit Slight correction - as I recall Elantris is also part of that sequence, so those planets which either definitel have two or more shards or likely have two or more shards. I think the main reason it is Mistborn is because in the end Mistborn will be using the metal from the other shards - shard's power condense as metal, and mistborn can burn metals for effects. If a mistborn is connected enough to another shard they can likely burn their metal, and so the full expansion of the shard based magics interacting with a focus on how the metallic arts - specifically constructed to affect metals and thus effect shards - would be a logical extension of the series - both mistborn and the whole Cosmere. Mistborn are the only magic users which potentially can use the power of every shard naturally, or as a normal extension of the magic they have.

@PallonianFire I guess great minds - humble minds too :-P Though I personally think it isn't so much that burning the alloy gives access to the exact power from another world, but instead alloys the burning of the metal for a new but potentially related effect, unless the connection itself is important. So, like @Draginon said with using the metal from either Aona or Skai, or an alloy of their metals, it might make you Elantrian, but I think it would give another ability to burn their metals instead, with the possible effect of making it easier to become an Elantrian. Burning an alloy of Lerasium and Tanavastium, or an alloy with "Slammerium" or a mixture of the three, probably wouldn't make someone a Knight, but it would make them connected and able to burn those metals for an effect, and possibly burn the alloys. A mixture of them, however, might make one a knight if they are also somehow linked to Roshar. @Corax That is what I think - also, side note, I hope they change Hero of Ages to use not 16 percent, but 1/16 of those affected, as Fuzz was worried about the units changing, and 16% is all about the units, breaking it up into 100's and then selecting 16 from the hundreds, rather than directly into selecting one out of 16 ... This is also why Mistborn is important to the Cosmere, and will be the last series - at least, this is why I think it will be, because the metals of other shards are the condensed power - a system all about using the very material shards condense as makes sense.

I didn't :-) But I had been thinking it was the only thing that made sense - I have previously posted a topic about using other shard metals, and one of the things I had recalled was Brandon saying you can't use a shard metal without being connected to the shard, or something similar to that, and I remembered that Lerasium has two effects, being burnable by anyone, and making someone either a mistborn or a misting as a side effect. If it can make a new connection based on being alloyed, and I am convinced that Scadrial was made to use metal by Ruin and Preservation on purpose, then having a method of connecting to shard so as to use their metals made sense, and so Lerasium :-)

Fairly straightforward theory, and an extract of a large one I had posted before on hypothetical shard metals. Basically the idea is the true effect of Lerasium is to allow the rewriting of connections to connect someone to a shard, and the shard metal alloyed with Lerasium is what determines the shard the person burning it is connected to. The reason becoming a mistborn is a side effect is because if it isn't alloyed with another metal then it just increases the connection to Preservation. It could be that the alloy will also increase the connection to Preservation, but it the main effect, or equal effect, is the connection to the shard the alloying metal comes from, and thus it would be possible to burn the shard metal for an effect. The question then is would one be able to burn alloys of the shard metal, becoming a the equivalent of a mistborn but with other metals, or only the shard metal that the lerasium was alloyed with? I.e., if alloyed with Atium, would the burner become a Seer or an Atium-mistborn? Or are Seers already the equivalent of Atium-mistborn?

@Elandera Indeed. How the story is told is just as important as the story. To explore the two ideas you have contributed then, and adding two examples I added before, lets explore some possible stories and settings with people whose eyes change colour rather than their hair as they age, an algae snow covering the whole planet, a species where the members can become space ships if they want, and an ecosystem of alien worlds with different chemistries The planet is a colony that humans settled on, and the local organisms have entered into a symbiotic relationship with the people which slows their ageing and changes their eye colour instead of their hair. The algae is actually from a crashed ship, long ago, and with the humans help eventually a member of the species that it came from is revived The algae is actually the enemy of another species - once the algae spread across space, but a second species hunted them down, and now the species is searching for any surviving members The aliens come from a world with a large amount of the algae on it, a very cold planet, and they live in symbiosis with it, some able to transform to spread it to other planets, one of which has humans who age with their eye colour rather than becoming wrinkled or their hair changing. This begins the start of trade Humans can partially merge with or work together with an algae-based species to grant it the ability to travel space, and in so doing their eyes change colour as they age, the algae thriving in the cold but needing a human to help it survive the vacuum of space where heat pools without convection Humans explore and meet two species, one of which loves the cold, the other very long lived, with the only changes being their eyes getting greyer. Each of these leans towards a very different story, being one of rebuilding, preparing for war, first contact, exploration and the changes one must undergo to explore, and humans as ambassadors.

The main theory is that voidbinding illumination allows for seeing the future. As voidbinding is described as being at least in part esoteric, it could be that the voidbinding surges are more mystical abstractions of the existing surges.

Surgebinding is a fascinating system, with a link to real physics mixed with a mythic view of the physics of the real world, a scientific magic with a mystic approach, or a mystic magic with a scientific approach. The fact that the surges also pair with one another to form balanced relations with essences likewise is fascinating, and suggestive of something else - the surges, interacting with their pairs, form a new manifestation of the combined abilities, independent of the resonances. What I mean is that resonances seem to be passive abilities, not requiring stormlight, while the combined surges would function as a single power which uses both its component surges, and could be considered their combination. This might mean that using [other methods] to gain two surges that are not paired would not result in a combined surge, but it might be that any surge could combine with another to produce a shared power, or some surges can combine but not others. In essence, I propose that most or all orders of knight radiant have access to: one or more powers through one of their surges (some of which might be shared with another order), one or more powers through the other, one or more powers from the combined surge unique to that order, and their resonance, only the later of which works without stormlight. And further, I propose the logic of the essences relates to the nature of the two surges which are associated with it, just as surge combinations serve ideals. Some of this might relate to voidbinding - maybe some of the proposals are things which only voidbinding can achieve, or maybe a mixture of both. Either way, the main aim of this is to explore the applications of the surges, what they might be able to do both on their own and with their pairs, their orders of knights, and the ideals and essences they pair up with. This is an outline of both the known abilities - those directly shown as well as stated to be functions - as well as some speculation, including assuming certain properties to belong to pairs of or singlular surges. It begins with examining each surge individually, including the order of knights that it is linked to, and their essence, before moving on to the next surge. This is mainly assumptions, so please excuse any assumptions that I state as fact :-) Surges and their links to Essences and Orders:

I am going to add a few more ideas here, as well as further comment on the idea of ideas - the issue of both getting ideas from external sources and having an idea which is similar to someone else's idea even if it isn't directly inspired by it. When I first heard about Brandon it was because he was completing the writing of Wheel of Time. When I looked him up what I read about him made me not want to read his books. Not because I wouldn't enjoy them, but because he was writing something which was very similar to what I wanted to write - a series of stories which take place on different worlds, characters able to travel between them, and strange supernatural creatures which are the source of various powers, and a background plot connecting the different stories together. Later, after I decided to read his non-Wheel books after seeing how well he handled the last three Wheel books, I would learn he also was using the idea of a character travelling the worlds and accruing abilities while affecting the plots of the stories he was in, but hidden in the background. Yet the more I heard about the Cosmere, and the more it seemed to match what I wanted to write, I also realised there were several differences, including the focus of the writing being more on magic systems than on alien species and other dimensions. I also realised that the ideas I had were themselves based on earlier books I had read, my enjoyment of other worlds being started with the Magicians Nephew and then further explored in the Wheel of Time. Science fiction and fantasy together by reading Dune and Anne McCaffery's Pern novels, and watching Star Wars. Logic puzzles by Azimov and detective novels by Agatha Christie. What I read gave ideas, what I watched gave ideas, and just because an idea came from one source doesn't mean that it is unique to that source, or even if unique to a source that it can't be expanded and made unique in another way. As Brandon has said in his website, even if writing something similar to what he had written, similar ideas or premise, an author can put a unique spin on it, and the works would still be very different from one another based on what the rest of the story was about. White Sand, for example, has a desert which has waterphobic life that has a unique relation to the ecology and magic system of the planet, which is similar to Dune. And other stories which has desert planets usually have a sandworm like species as well as a homage to Dune. Sleepless are a hive mind species consisting of other individual hive minds, rather than a species sized one, which has been used in A Fire Upon the Deep, though it usually is not how hive minds are portrayed. Schlock Mercenary - which I learnt about through Writing Excuses - calls intelligent life Sophonts, which originate in another science fiction series, and Schlock is similar in some ways to Kandra, with a brain distributed throughout his body, and has some shapeshifting abilities, though weaker than a Kandra's in some ways. Various science fiction writers have covered a species which turns other species into members of itself, like the Borg or Cybermen. In Schlock Mercenary a group of lawyers try a similar approach on another lawyer. The background plot of Schlock Mercenery also is very similar to Mass Effect, with galactic civilisation being periodically destroyed or reset by an old possibly artificial menace. Yet all these ideas, while used before elsewhere, are done in a unique manner. Even outside of Science fiction this can be shown. Shakespeare based plays on older stories but added new details, and Agatha Christie originated many plot twists in detective fiction which are still used today. A good idea can be done with a new take, and a bad idea can be used to make a great story - even if you take two bad ideas and write on a bet. This brings the discussion to the final point - similar ideas with divergent sources. Brandon probably got inspiration for Sandlings from Dune, as well as Atium from Dune. Anne McCaffrey got ideas of dragons from early dragon lore. In both cases the idea was made unique and interesting. But Robert Jordan and Frank Herbert probably gained their ideas of mystic female-only organisations from real world cultures. Robert Jordan might have refined the idea using Herber's version, especially with the unique man who has powers that the female-only group has, but both probably got the idea from the real world. Common sources and different levels of inspiriation - one person is inspired by this idea, another gets the idea from him, and a third from her - mean that two people can have a similar idea while not having known about one another, and then later on when they meet they think the other has copied them, like Rowling and Pratchett, with someone once asking him if he based UU on Hogwarts, and Unequal Rites being a parody or homage, to which he replied that they should look at which was published first. Good ideas and settings can come from the same source without having previously read anothers work, but one can use anothers work to find a way to refine an idea and make it distinct from anothers. So, here are some other ideas. These aren't the only ideas I have, or my favourites, but they are ideas I think could be fun. The method I list ideas is not the same method I record them though it is slightly similar. There are useful categories which I have abstracted slightly.

@Weltall Thanks :-) that's true about Knights Radiant and Paladins, especially with their oaths being the source of their abilities. I suppose I should clarify what I meant in that Truthwatchers have the powers of healing others and some type of light-abilities, which match fairly closely with WarCraft III Paladins - they are all Paladins, its just Truthwatcher are similar to the main idea of what a Paladin can do with their abilities. Good point on the monk comparison. As I said I don't play DnD, so I'm not really able to comment on the capabilities of monks, though I guess they are more fighting-monk type monk's than "lets experiment with growing peas and working with bees" type monks :-P Without getting into Dragonsteel speculation too deeply we do know that there is at least one other ability on the planet either historically or at the time of the other series, or another facet of the abilities shown, so there might be some cleric type present, though again as you said it could be just be a background influence on Brandon, and not a deliberate attempt to make classes, and so isn't a pattern. I always knew something was up with Hoid. He isn't just a fighter / rogue / sorcerer with specialisation in enchantments! :-P Actually, don't Bard's dip into several roles? Hoid being a bard could make sense with accruing abilities.

@Scion of the Mists Yes, that is what I meant :-) In the same way Saze took up the corpses of Ruin and Preservation, which themselves were emanating from the vessel's corpses - the vessel's corpses appeared in the physical realm while the shard's corpse was in the three. Perhaps I should have said remains of the shard, rather than corpse - it does give the wrong impression. Though thinking about it, the vessel's body probably is or was floating in space in the physical realm - maybe that is where the perpendicularity - if there is one - is located. To address the issue with the danger of a shard, though, I think it actually reinforced the idea that the remains of the shard - that actually is a better way to put it - and can be summarised in a single idea: Expansion. The shard's remains in Elantris are a danger in the cognitive realm because they were placed there - if they hadn't , they would have been a danger perhaps in the physical and cognitive, but less of a danger overall. But outside of Sel they would probably not be as dangerous, depending on how they diffuse or are used. If the remains of Ambition are free floating in both realms, and are deduced in size because parts of it are missing - some in the Threnodite system, and maybe some further way - then it would be less dangerous than Sel's cognitive realm because it is less total - one shard instead of two, and less present than a single shard - and also spread across both the physical and cognitive. If the remains are being used to power something, then that could also reduce the danger, like spren on Roshar. But importantly, the shard might be diffused across the physical and cognitive - distances in the cognitive are related to how much thought is in the physical, and lightyears can be covered in a single step. A shard's power could be spread across a large space in the physical realm and provide enough space in the cognitive for a city. We haven't been told how Ambition died, if someone killed it later or it expired from the wounds Odium inflicted. Perhaps Ambition's last act was to contain itself in a way that ultimately its own Ambitions could be fulfilled even if it died.

I've mentioned before that I think the systems of magic on Roshar, Sel, and Scadrial are the most versatile systems we have seen, and likely are the most versatile we will see, because they are places that form the backbone of the Cosmere's main series (as Brandon has said that the Elantris series, Mistborn novels, Stormlight archive, and Dragonsteel form the backbone of the Comere), and because those planets have two or more of the shards. I noticed, however, something else which might be interesting - the main systems on those three match the classic rpg classes. I am not a role player though I have read a lot on it. Something which most people, even those unfamiliar with rpgs might know, however, is the ubiquity and versatility of the core rpg classes - the fighter, the mage, and the thief. And the cleric, which will be mentioned at the end. Roshar - Surgebinding - Fighter Knights Radiant have access to magical blades and armour, boosting frontal close range fighting and increasing the likelyhood of survival in combat. Also, knights. Windrunners can pull or push projectiles away from others, shielding them, a classic role for fighters. Stonewards and Dustbringers likewise are implied to get into the thick of a melee, as are Edgedancers. Truthwatchers are Paladins. Sel - the Dor - Mage (or Cleric) AonDor, seals, etc. require study and practice. Drawing symbols to produce results, and combining to produce more, allows for more versatile abilities than others shown. Can be used to heal others. Scadrial - Allomancy, Feruchemy, Hemalurgy - Rogue / Thief Allomancy on Scadrial lets one attack from range, sense at night while remaining hidden, move quickly in a knife fight, and travel quickly across the environment for scouting or escaping Chromium lets one nullify powers, like a poison attack, and Bronze lets one track, and copper lets them hide. Feruchemy can allow an unassuming scholar suddenly become a tough fighter, a speedy attacker, and fall from heights and survive. Hemalurgy is about theft, and secretly gaining something someone shouldn't have. Mistborn were used as spies and assassins, hidden in mist when on missions and identities hidden in noble society. Thieving crews. I suspect that this doesn't map perfectly, and some are a combination, like Thugs being for fighters, Lightweavers for thieves, Darkhor monks for fighters, but the similarities should be noted. Now, clerics might be a subset of Sel - seals can be used to fix the body, and Elantris shows AonDor likewise can heal, so it might be that clerics could be part of it, and the identity of one group as monks certainly could give that idea, but I think that perhaps another system could match. As I said before, Yolen is one of the main planets, is important for the cosmere religions, and might have and historically have more investiture than others. Not a lot has been shown, but from the Bridge Four series from Yolen it could be argued that the skills it is implied the main character is later taught - the shattering of an enemies weapon wiht a hit - for either mage or cleric or fighter. And that isn't the only system shown, just the only one which the sequence gives some detail.

I agree with you all. I didn't think Kelsier was seeing a different version of reality but I did have to list it for completeness sake - after all, he is significantly different from the other people who have interacted with the Cognitive realm, so it would either be because of his point of view or the nature of the environment he was in being different to Roshar's. It does make me wonder about the full significance of perception's shaping of the Cognitive realm - what do the people and species on Roshar see on Roshar that makes objects able to link together in the cognitive realm, and what makes Scadrial's so closely reflect the physical? There has to be some reason for those differences - and what would happen if someone on Roshar is spiked and a spren were to talk to them - would the spren see more closely into the physical realm through that person, as Kelsier was able to talk to Spook and interact with him? I think some properties of the Cognitive realm do make sense, such as water being one solid thing, and though weather might make seas and oceans move and change, to the human mind it is both a boarder and a passage, a way to get to distant shores. The sky is blue, water is as well, and in the distance, on the horizon, they combine, so the expanse of water and the expanse of sky become a single path into space. Its the other properties that are strange :-)