Meg

Did the Shattering of Adonalsium occur on Yolen?

I really thought there was a WoB about Hoid and holding a Shard, but I can't find what I remember. Weiry, do you refer to this WoB: source We know that Hoid "is something else entirely", but does this totally exclude the possibility of Hoid taking up a Shard of Adonalsium? My objection comes from my reading Mr. Sanderson's answer in the above quote as: "Hoid had no interest in holding that power in the state it was in". *disclaimer* Hopefully there are not lots of errors in my text which contains a few thoughts from somebody who -- unfortunately -- totally lost track here.

This it was: source In 2011 Mr. Sanderson said "it's either Hoid or one of the 17th sharders", but he later he said it's not Hoid. edit: I'd say "no" because Cultivation isn't involved in the Oathpact: source (the last to lines of this post)

What a question . *** insertion *** Thanks Kurk, for providing the WoB's (as for I don't have to do now ). Though I think those WoBs don't help for Moogle's question as for those are about the "essence" of Investiture that is around. Moogle seems to have another thing in mind. Moogle, to which exact phase of the process do you refer? When burned but not yet used? While using? Or thereafter? edit: the italic part in the second paragraph.

Sorry for offtopic: Outis, my bit of English fails me: What do you mean with "to ponder". I asked the dictionairy but got lots of possibilities which all don't explain to me the meaning of your second sentence. And: It's "general etiquette to ..." ... is this so? Thank you in advance for helping me understand. PS: When clarified this post might/could/should be hidden?

Yes, the German books are split: The Way of Kings -- Der Weg der Könige (The Way of Kings) -- Der Pfad der Winde (The Path of Winds) Words of Radiance -- Die Worte des Lichts (Words of Light) -- Die Stürme des Zorns (Storms of Rage) (It might be that wrath is the better translation, my gut would use rage or eventually fury). As said before it's totally possible that the German books are counted here as 1, 2, 3 and 4, as it is with (i.e.) the books of the Wheel of Time or A Song of Fire and Ice. Btw. IIRC TWoK was split in two books in the English editions but WoR is one book (which I got, it was available earlier than the original).

It's not really helpful, but I ran about that quote and wanted to throw it in here: source

Sorry if this had been mentioned already, but I'm trying to catch up on this thread and when I will be at its end I'll have forgotten what I want to say: Smurf asked about Siamese Twins (wikipedia calls them conjoined twins) and you, Curiosity, answered that conjoined twins "result" from two different eggs. I'm sorry, that's not right, conjoined twins are always identical twins (the German word is "eineiig", which means "one-egg-ish", what seems more accurate than "identical"). The question concerning identical twins was already answered by Kurk a few posts prior to those here quoted. **** Edit: We know that Shalash is Jezriens daughter. I assume she was born prior to the Oathpact. Whether the Heralds (after they were "made" Heralds) had children or were able to still have children, I don't know. About the different states (is this the right word? I'm avoiding the word "forms". )of Investiture on Scadrial you might have a look here. In general I'd suggest reading through the Coppermind Wiki and the WoT Interview Search which are both really interesting and exploratory.

Dyring, one question: Do you mean "evil == odium-ish"? I understand you this way and I can't agree with this "definition". There might be an overlap in what this two words describe, but not a total. Weiry has already put in the WoB about the ecological price of the gemheart-hunts. I'd like to add one more WoB: They are in a symbiotic relationship with the chasmfiend, and are part of what allow the creatures to grow to the size they do with an exoskeleton. (Along with a high-oxygen, lower-gravity world.) So to me both questions (what are the spren and what happens if no more adult chasmfiends exist) are really unmagically answered by WoBs.

Wait ... I'm sure I've read this idea somewhere. Umm ... With a big, very big stretch one might say a beetle (not the car! :-)) is a very small miniature edition of a chull or a chasmfiend *cough*. But what of a beetle's heart could be "powerful" if it's not a very very small gemheart? I stay with this idea though I can't give scientific explanations for it. I totally lost touch with the news here, did anyone ever ask BS about this?

I'd like to throw in the full quote in it's context (the important part is emphasized by me). It's from TWoK, Chapter 37, Sides: As a side note I add that one (I remembered that because of the dungspren Kal mentioned): source

At first: Every time I write "I (don't) think ..." this means I have no evidence for this special thought. And: I admit that I have problems to understand the subtleties of your question(s) (due to me not being an English-native speaker). What do you mean with: "being able to gain Investiture? Do you know this one? source It doesn't really answer your question, but is it the reason for it? I think so, but I have no evidence. As far as I understand Mr. Sanderson a lot of things are possible. I don't know. Some of the people here are strongly convinced that there had not been a "Nahel" bond before the Knights Radiant were established; but surely there had been some kind of a bond before (with the Surgebinders). Hopefully someone more capable of helping you jumps in.

I wonder where you want to go with that question? Do you refer to the "cracks" as for example we see them in Shallan or Kaladin? If yes, my gut says: No, because their "cracks" aren't caused by being ripped of their Innate Investiture. If no, you seem to be right: source For completeness, I think Brandon referred to this quote: source I don't think Drabs could get a Nahel bond, because it's inherent to being a Drab that they have lost their Innate Investiture. As a side note: Would a Drab be able to worldhop? And the Nahel bond is between a surgebinder and a spren -- so why should a spren bond to someone unable to use Investiture (neither their own nor the Rosharan)? As for BS said that the Rosharan people have Innate Investiture too, the Drab would require to this Investiture from somewhere (or someone ... spikes ... ). For the second part: I can imagine that people from other worlds with the right prerequisition can form a Nahel bond with a spren.

I apologize for not using proper quotes. Terminology I see that “catalyst” isn't used in the Ars Arcanum the way it's “officially” (in real life) defined. Too, I'm not sure if “reagent” or “reactant” are completely right for the Cosmere. Anyways … PorridgeBrick I'm not bought with “Reactant (passively ...)”. The metals are the focus of Allomancy (as well as Hemalurgy and Feruchemy). For Allomancy they are not “passively” consumed. The user actively uses them when performing Allomancy. Vin was told early in her career that she must use the metals up in the evening if they were still in her stomach for avoiding getting poisoned. Also the color is used actively, if anything because it's needed for the process of Awakening. I'd say a catalyst/reagent/reactant is needed when 1. the user has not their SpiritWeb adjusted to the use of the “raw power” (in Mistborn that's the Mist) and/or 2. if the user is adjusted, there is no “raw power” available (no Mist, no Allomancy → metals are needed). Terisen This might be but in that special situation I think, feeling drained is the natural answer of Kaladin's body to what happened before. Suddenly he fell back to being a “normal (badly) hurt person” when his stimulant (Stormlight → makes him stronger, faster, heals …) left him. Terisen You're on the right track: source And now I'm totally out of any conceptual path. Hopefully this makes senses to someone.

There's another scene where Kaladin "suddenly" ran out of Stormlight (though not by using it). Wouldn't the effect be the same? First full of Stormlight and then suddenly out of Stormlight? WoR, Chapter 18, Bruises There's no mentioning of Kaladin feeling cold. Or -- just for my understanding -- does feeling or being drained not mean being extremely exhausted? This would not also necessarely mean suffering from hypothermia, or am I totally wrong here? -------- But back to topic: I think you mixed two terms here, Moogle: "fuel" and "focus. edit: Tempus used the term "focus" correctly, but -- as I understand it -- talked about "fuel". I think Terisen's interpretation is closer to the "cosmerogical" working of "magic": From the AoL Ars Arcanum: Terisen called it "reagent," which I personally don't buy; I'd like to stay with "catalyst" though this doesn't fit either (regarding Feruchemy where the "catalyst" would be a repository). But I also see the Investiture as the "fuel." I think we have to remind that lots of terms are used ambigiously. Investiture is not only the power used as fuel but also part of one's Spiritweb: (Once again from the AoL AA.) If one's Spiritweb isn't innately adjusted or altered to the use of Investiture they are not able to use Investiture (see: Innate Investiture vs. Snapping). So I think you, Moogle, were mentioning the "catalysts" not the fuel. The "fuel" itsellf is the "Power of Investiture" or the "Energy of Investiture." We should really try to find a term for it. PS: My spellchecker doesn't work, hopefully there's not a lot of mistakes.

This is how I understood that part, too. Thaidakar seems to be the first of the Ghostbloods, but Iyatil trained Mraize. We learned back in TWoK that being an ardent brings some kind of freedom from the general woman/man-roles. TWoK, I-8, Geranid Thus I don't see, why a female ardent wouldn't be trained on the sword and couldn't be good with the sword. Thinking about it, I'm more surprised that ardents (male or female) are trained in the arts of war. Shouldn't the ardents teach peace? But then, looked at it from another perspective, if there were not ardents trained in all Callings, who would elevate the normal people in their Callings. Just rambling: My gut doesn't see Vivenna on Roshar. Also she should be able to control her hair now. And: Nobody on Roshar would know "of her royal heritage" aside fo Vasher and Hoid. (This last passage might be enhanced or changed after rereading the corresponding parts of WoR).

I've just finished a reread of TWoK and, though I wouldn't dare to state that it's cryptics around Elhokar, the following passage implies strong similarities: TWoK Chapter 64, See of Glass; emphasizes mineThis sounds a lot like Elhokar's description. And it says that Shallan isn't merely drawing the cryptics but also seeing and hearing them, not only on this one day when she had Soulcast. I admit being a bit stubborn . My guess is that those shadows, whispers and "symbolheads" are not only the Shadesmarian manifestation of cryptics but probably of other types of spren, too.

The WoR Prologue is about Jasnah, and amongst other things, about her misbehaving shadows and her first visit to Shadesmar. I don't see anything worth to be mentioned about Elkhokar in this Prologue. Rock apperantly sees all spren; you think Elhokoar does, too? Why didn't he see Syl, then? Syl's reaction was told in the former post; you mixed Rock mentioning Syl the first time (to her own surprise) with Syl showing herself to Sigzil in WoR.

Hm, Darkness seems to be still around as seems Shalash. Mraize has a babsk, so he's an "apprentice." The leader of the Ghostbloods seems to be Thaidakar. Also it would be interesting if one of the Heralds still own some of the old, original scripts -- unaltered by the Hierocracy. So many questions, ideas and open/loose ends. Sure

If we want to know more about Rosharan history we would have to catch one of the Heralds around and interrogate him or her. Perhaps we can convince Shallan to be decoy to catch Darkness. I'm sorry for rambling, but this occurred to me: There are people around (at least the nine Heralds that left the Oathpact 4,500 years ago), that could perfectly provide information we long for.

@Aleksiel In the Feverstone Keep vision the commanding officer (or whatever his rank would be) was a darkeyes. This fact surprised Dalinar and from this I think that in Dalinar's time a lighteyes would have had such a position. My idea might be a bit stretched but I could see a change from who had been ruling to who is ruling. Maybe in Nohadon's days there hasn't been such a restriction; but then I think his idea of lighteyes serving darkeyes could have come from the special abilities of the "surgebinders" that should have served the people instead of installing a reason to reign. With my idea for what happened after the Recreance I'll stay with my unbased speculation. Anyways: The whole thing is only speculation. edit: @Shardmancer: Wow, interesting! Upvote for you. And sad, to see how people are to be influenced, isn't it?

@Nymp: If anything, please use Dustmother O_o. I thought there was already something written where I could get those "facts" you mentioned. Especially about the timeline. Investiture of Endowment five hundred years before Warbreaker? Eight hundred years before "Roshar"? What is "zero" for Roshar in this timeline?

Wouldn't that be the Mist Spirit(s)?

@Porridge: thanks Ah, I've seen that use, but not yet if the "subject" is definitely singular. Sorry for that question; English still is really a bit tricky for me. Thanks, but can you provide a link to this theory?

But it sounded at least familiar to Dalinar and I'm not surprised him not remembering where he knows that word from, given the circumstances: Living a vision where he just escaped death, saw, what he thought Voidbringers, saw Radiants falling down from the air and fighting, realizing that their helmets were just "gone" ... that was such an influx of information, stress and observation, that I can't blame Dalinar for not remembering where he heard of Urithiru. And yes, you're right that Urithiru was mentioned in front of Shallan earlier, but not defined. Jasnah's notes referred to "a place", from that cities-sand-thing (I actually miss the word, sorry), Shallan could imagine, Urithiru would be another city. Anyways, your interpretation might be right and "it" might only belong to the clarification that Urithiru was the center of the KR. It seems I've read the question and the answer in another way (in my head the question was: "What is Urithiru?", and after Jasnah's explanation I linked the "it" back to "Urithiru"). Probably I'm wrong.