Philomath

Shallan and Kelsier. Shallan loves Hoid. Kelsier hates Hoid. But there are some similarities between Shallan and Kelsier that make me think she might like Kelsier too. So getting the three of them together would be interesting.

While you were talking about Lightweaver Oaths I noticed that Shallan’s oaths are a little strange. We think of truths as being super introspective about “who you really are” but Shallan’s truths for the most part have been things she has done. She could have said “I am a murderer” as one oath and covered both parents deaths, but instead they are separated out into two different oaths and actions. I guess that’s just more proof that Lightweaver oaths are incredibly flexible.

Wasn’t Rysn going to get a novella like Lift got in Edgedancer? Or did that turn into another thing Brandon ran out of time for? Maybe after he finishes the first draft of Book 4 but before Book 4 actually releases to tide us over.

Just thought of another interesting possibility. Sja Anat or Ba Ado Mishram. Those would definitely be new perspectives to see from.

I don’t agree with this part of what you are saying. Dalinar’s good reputation among the Alethi was well established long before the Shattered Plains. He had well trained, well behaved soldiers who were well respected. They had been trained not to loot, rape, pillage, etc. If anything, Dalinar’s reputation was weakened at the Shattered Plains. And Amaram was a shady figure before the Shattered Plains as well. He was already well mixed up in the Son’s of Honor before Gavilar’s assassination. And he was already an “ends justify the means person.”

Leshwi is an interesting guess. It could give us hints about what they want with Moash if we don’t get any of his POVs. And yes Tezim seems like a long shot. Especially for this book. Maybe book 5 if he lives that long.

We are all speculating on where our main characters will be since Brandon’s latest update. But who do you all think the main Interlude character will be? So far in each book, the main interlude character has been a sort of antagonist. Szeth, Eshonai, and Venli. I’m leaning towards Moash/Vyre or Taravangian for this book. But I’m not 100% sure since both of them have had a few POVs not in interludes. So if not them, maybe Tezim/Ishar or Nale? Or what other perspectives might we be offered in Interludes? I’m thinking maybe someone from the Horneater Peaks to get some more info on the weirdness up there, maybe the Stump from Edgedancer to see more Radiants, and if the main one is not Ishar or Nale, then maybe one of them. Or another Skybreakers squire. And perhaps one with some hints to more of the Heralds.

@Jofwu I think most people put Venli with Kaladin because Kaladin is the most likely person to be on the front lines and around the Singers. That’s why I did it at least. Though I also really think Venli could be in the tertiary arc with fewer characters. I just get hesitant to do that to her since this book is supposed to be her book. I also agree with you that Szeth is not going to cleanse the Shin yet. That is a perfect set-up for his Book 5. I think I’m this book his knowledge of all the surges will be invaluable to the new Knights Radiant. And he may still not be entirely trusted on his own yet. So I think he sticks around Urithiru as a teacher. I also think going to the Horneater Peaks needs to be a thing this book. I just don’t have any good ideas as to which group does that. If he is at the front lines I wouldn’t be surprised if some of his squires go with him. Most of them just don’t seem mentionable as possible big POV characters. Also, many of them seem to be becoming Radiants in their own right so may get sent on their own missions or possibly training their own squires. Some radiants need to be in Urithiru to work the oathgate. Kaladin just doesn’t seem like a likely one to stay.

Okay. So I was thinking about how the Eshonai flashbacks and Venli real time story will work out in Book 4. I’ve decided that they are going to mirror each other but kind of in a reverse way. We know Eshonai was an explorer. She left home a lot. Young Eshonai is described in some ways as unreliable or undependable. But she grows a lot in responsibility after Gavilar’s assassination when she essentially opts to stop exploring and stays home to be a commander/general for the Listeners. Venli has been the one who stayed close to home. She explored in different ways through research. And right now, despite not actually liking the Fused or Odium, she isn’t leaving. She’s staying with what is most “familiar” for lack of a better word. But I would argue, that for her to take more responsibility, she is going to have to get out of her comfort zone, and leave. She may have convinced a part of the Singers to not follow the Fused and she will have to run away with them to protect them. So the flashbacks will show Eshonai growing in responsibility by coming home and the real time will show Venli growing by leaving it.

I think it’s important to remember that when Brandon says “4 characters,” it might not exactly be 4 POVs. He compared it to WoK and in Shallan’s section we just had her POV but I would easily say there were 2 characters. Shallan and Jasnah. So thinking about who absolutely needs large amounts of POVs in this book, I would say Venli, Kaladin, and Shallan are our big candidates. Considering that Dalinar is stepping back to a WoR-esque role where he had a few of his own POVs but was mainly seen through Kaladin and Shallan. Primary arc seems likely to be at Urithiru. So I would say Shallan, Jasnah, Dalinar and Adolin. Outside chances of it including Szeth or Renarin. Shallan is researching Unmade/Voidbinding things and is acting as Jasnah’s research arm since Jasnah will be busy Queening it up. I will note that this will not follow the wardship they had earlier, but Jasnah will genuinely ask Shallan for help. And Shallan will be okay with it since she needs to do Unmade research for the Ghostbloods anyway. Good cover for her. Secondary arc is Kaladin, Venli, and Vyre. Kaladin seems most likely to get sent out of Urithiru and to front line areas where Venli and Vyre will also likely be. Tertiary arc... throwing out something totally random since I have no ideas. Lift and Rock going to free the Horneater Peaks. Rock likes Lift because she eats all his food. Okay. I have revised my groupings so much. It’s hard to predict who could be where. Watch Brandon surprise us all and have Venli show up with Singer refugees at Urithiru in part 1. Ha ha.

Listening to Well of Ascension right now. In one of Elend’s first lessons with Tindwyl, she is telling him he can at least learn to defend himself properly. Maybe be a passable warrior. But then she adds that he’ll likely never be the kind of king who leads a charge. Guess who leads the charge of Atium mistings against the Koloss in Hero of Ages. Emperor Elend Venture.

Not too bad of a day. Kind of lazy. It snowed here. And while I am a 4 seasons person and enjoy snow as much as sun, I’m not particularly fond of it after March 15. How can you pick just one? But right now my 2 favorites are Dalinar and Sazed. Por que no? Anything you want. But asking that made me think of the line from I, Robot where the doctor guy says, “Now that is the right question.” Or something like that. And now I want to watch that movie. Green. Especially a good forest or hunter green.

I just want to clarify that I think Dalinar’s arc in Oathbringer culminating in “You cannot have my pain” is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. I love his arc. I love him accepting responsibility. But he truly does not have sole responsibility for that tragedy. Gavilar literally sent him there to clean up the mess he couldn’t solve. Gavilar knew bad things were going to happen. And I think the biggest part of the event I don’t hold Dalinar completely culpable for is Evi’s death. Everything else sure he can take the blame. But he did not mean to kill her. I’m not sure how Adolin and Renarin will take it, but given everything surrounding that situation, her death ultimately is a horribly tragic accident. Sorry. I feel like I’m not explaining myself well. And also I hope you all know that I respect different opinions and can say we may just agree to disagree on this. Thanks all for the discussion.

1. Just the right amount. They seem too well regulated to not account for proper supply/demand. 2. Taln 3. Well he already did once and it wasn’t pretty. RIP Rathalas. So don’t be surprised if it happens again. 4. Zane. The wolf helped Vin bring him down in the end.

Agreed on this one. Breeze and Sebarial Ham needs someone to actually philosophize with. Maybe Raoden. Vin and Mare

That makes the most sense. Thanks.

I guess I’ll start playing. I’ve been enjoying conversations on this forum and it is fun to get to know other Sanderfans so if anyone wants to get to know me too here’s your chance.

Bummer. That’s too bad he doesn’t think it would be valuable to his audience. Though I can understand not wanting to put anything in stone so that he can write whatever he wants from it later. That’s why I basically said not him. Just someone he already trusts to work with him.

I agree that copper is very useful. By blocking I meant stopping the effects of emotional allomancy others use on you. Are you implying that if Wax wore one of the aluminum hats that he wouldn’t be able to steelpush?

I love all that Dalinar has shared of the in world Way of Kings. Does anyone else wish we could get a published version of it as a companion to SA? Maybe by someone at Dragonsteel with Brandon but not Brandon. His time is too precious to spend on that despite how much I would like to have it.

So it makes sense that aluminum lines hats in Era 2 stop emotional allomancy. But is anyone else bugged by the fact that it essentially does copper’s job? I know copper does more than block emotional allomancy for allomancers using it and this obviously protects non allomancers. But I kind of wish it was copper lined hats instead.

I really want Nohadon to be a cognitive shadow of sorts and somehow still be around. But I think it is unlikely. I just loved Dalinar’s Nohadon dream and found it to be really interesting and odd. And I like Nohadon.

You know. I actually find this question a little tricky. My eyes are a greyish with a hint of blue. But they are a more medium shade than “light.” I’d probably say that would make me a light eyes but I have a feeling that on Roshar the differences are a lot more obvious and easy to tell.

@Calderis Thank you for being able to say what I meant better than I could. Dalinar is in no way guiltless. And he absolutely must take responsibility for his actions which as of now I believe he has. I guess what I was trying to say is that while he is indeed responsible for those horrible events, there was a lot outside of his control leading up to it. And it is a tragedy that society, upbringing, events could ever lead a person to be what Dalinar was. What Dalinar did he is absolutely responsible for. And it is inexcusable. But it is also completely understandable. He is ,however, as Calderis pointed out, equally responsible for making the world a better place. He is at the forefront of changing the world for the better. And that started back in WoK (and before) when no one in Alethkar wanted to listen to him. Now he has world leaders working with him, high princes following him, and at least one Listener/Singer wondering what he is all about.

Oh I don’t think his actions were in any way right or good. Just that culturally, no one should be shocked or surprised or upset that it happened. And it isn’t Dalinar’s fault that he was a product of that. Actually, who Dalinar chooses to become (with some magical help, but even after the memories return) is a testament of who he really could be without some of the Alethi cultural influence.