Pagerunner

That interpretation of F.Nicrosil comes from the RPG, right? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else. It's not necessarily canon - in the Aluminum section, Brandon mentions that he's not telling us everything correctly, to preserve some surprises he has coming. That being said, even if it was, I'm not sure your interpretation fits. It would require all medallions to have two powers - one for the ability you're using to store, one for the ability you're using to tap. But, according to Allik, even though two- and three-powered medallions are possible, most have one power. Allik also mentions Firemothers and Firefathers as the way they fill the heat medallions. If the Southerners could fill them up themselves, they wouldn't need... well, whatever those are, anyways. That being said, it's a great idea. "Oh no, we're freezing to death, let's all run around extra light to make up for it." Brilliant. It could definitely work for the southerners, if Nicrosil works the way it is described in the RPG. However, I think some of the details we can glean about the medallions indicate that Nicrosil functions very differently than we've been told.

Yeah, if you're able to give people whatever powers you want using medallions, it should be easy to give someone a matching set of Allomancy and Feruchemy and let them compound whatever they feel like. I've been wondering about this for the past few days, as well. Then, I remembered - Compounding is a hack of the magic system. It involves drawing Investiture into your body through burning metal (Allomancy), then passing that Investiture into your Feruchemical storage. However, if you're using a medallion, maybe things don't align quite right for you to be able to hack it in that way? Maybe you would need to pass that Investiture through the nicrosilmind to convert it from one form to another, and the medallion blocks the change of energy? Hemalurgy allows you to Compound with the new powers, but it also grafts those powers directly onto your Spiritweb, twisting you and changing you. If the medallions don't have side-effects like spikes, it would mean they're not altering your Spiritweb, and not truly "giving" you the ability you're using, but letting you use it out of the Nicrosilmind. That slight difference might be enough to prevent Compounding. So, TL:DR version: Yeah, if they're smart, everyone with medallions should be Compounding their butts off. Maybe medallions aren't able to Compound?

Upvoted for you, Viridian. All the medallions we've seen thus far grant Feruchemy,not Allomancy, but the bands did give Wax super-powered A.Steel. Remember, Nicrosil stores Investiture; it appears that it can store the ability to use any of the Metallic powers, whether Feruchemical or Allomatic. Medallions can provide an instant store, while a medal granting Allomancy would also have to come with a vial of metal. So Feruchemical medallions might just be more self-contained, which is why we've seen more of them. As for how they filled Nicrosil medallions: I used to think like you do, that it was like storing memories, that you had to give it up to put your power in a Nicrosil metalmind. But someone else in another thread suggested that it might be more like storing an amount of time as an Allomancer. You spend three hours without your powers, you give someone else the ability to become an Allomancer for three hours. It would mean that Nicrosil storage would run out, as opposed to Copper storage, which comes out and goes back in. (Again, the question remains: how do they get enough Investiture storied in Nicrosil? More on that below...) Mistings are rare in SoScad, but they aren't unheard of. They need someone with A.Steel to get their ship flying, remember? They are as uncommon in the south as they were before the Final Empire - and Alendi could use A.Brass. Also, the Sovereign had a spike through his eye - he could have given them knowledge of Hemalurgy, and they could then kidnap Allomancers from the north and take their power. We're told in the text that the heat medallions themselves are filled by Firemothers and Firefathers. We don't know any more specifics than that. If it's any consolation, the Set is just as confused as we are; Edwarn said they hadn't figured out how to refill the heat medallions. Compounding is the way that the Sovereign originally filled the Bands of Mourning, and the way that Wax thought to possibly refill them, so it was what I first through of, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the way the medallions are also filled. The southerners could possibly have other technology that lets them draw Investiture out of ettmetal and store it directly in medallions.

So, I just read through Emperor's Soul to take a look at the Realmatics of Forging. A few things I noted: Shai references the Cognitive Realm when referring to the Table as a whole. How it's viewed as a single item, so that's why a separate soulstamp isn't needed for each bolt or piece of wood. The stamp is also referenced as being applied to the object's "soul." The Cognitive Realm is used to find your target, but I think the changes happen in the Spiritual Realm. The changes she makes all have to do with how people interact with the stamped object. Was the stone in the walls improperly quarried by the stoneworkers? Was the water damage in the room repaired by the palace staff? Even with the Emperor, it was how he interacted with his brother or Gaotona. Shai's warrior alter-ego was based on a group of people she could have trained from. I think in every instance she is messing with the Connection to a person in the Spiritual Realm. The changes she made were easier or harder based on how realistic of a change in the object's history could be. The slighter the change in Connection, the easier it was. When Shallan soulcasts, she doesn't deal with history - she's looking at how an object is now, and what she wants it to be right now. However, I may have dismissed Soulcasting too soon as not using Connection. Here's the passage when Shallan transformed the ship into water at the beginning of WoR: Shallan used the ship's Connection with its sailors to transform it to save their lives. I can't think of an obvious Connection for every Soulcasting - Jasnah might have used the criminals' Connection to their victims to Soulcast them to death, she might have used the castle's Connection to Taravingian's niece to convince it to change to free her. It might not even be necessary, but it might make it easier.

So, the Ire drink their liquid regularly, and they also can use a sphere full of it to gain Connection to Preservation to take up the Shard. This makes me think of how Allik's translation medallion worked - a bunch of blank Connection, latching on to whatever is closest. What if the liquid in the glowing orb isn't Investiture - what if it's Connection? The orb is like Allik's medallion - full of blank Connection? But then, why are the Ire drinking it? Maybe it's not quite the same - not blank Connection, but liquified Connection to Sel. That let's them stay as Elantrians, even when they're in Scadrial's portion of the Cognitive Realm.

Now that I think about it, TLR did have to spend time old to store up youth to then compound. Miles was in a constant feedback loop, so that's why he didn't experience it. Those are the only two instances we've seen compounding, so we're at 50/50 for still being weak while you compound. And I absolutely agree that the correct interpretation for Suit's quote is that they can use other peoples' metalminds - whether or not they used compounding to fill them isn't as important to me. (Although, truth be told, I didn't find the quote to be weird at all, and I'm still surprised at all the different ways people are taking it.) I think you're selling Miles short. Wax refers to him as "particularly dangerous" and "virtually immortal." Not only did he heal, but he "never lacked energy" (AoL chapter 11), so he could maintain peak performance in a fistfight (at least until he fell asleep). And I think you're also misremembering his capture. Even after his thugs were defeated and it was just Miles left, they still needed a huge amount of people to capture him. He was taken down by a fellow Twinborn (Wax), another Allomancer (Marasi), and over a hundred constables (not a dozen). Just because a Steel compounder would be better doesn't mean that Miles wasn't a force to be reckoned with. AoL very clearly presents Miles as an army unto himself. But, yes, if Miles could be captured, he could be contained. Same for the Set's hypothetical compounder - if they chained him up properly, he wouldn't be able to escape. But if he was suitably restrained... well, why would he be filling metalminds for the Set? And they definitely wouldn't want him running around loose, not after everyone but Suit expressed aversion to using Miles in case he would turn against them (AoL chapter 15). So, there would have to be a very particular set of circumstances - imprison a Gold feruchemist, spike him with A.Gold and F.Aluminum, capture his family, tell him that unless he fills metalminds all day every day, they're gonna kill his kids. Yeah, it's possible. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to get a scenario like that based on how full Wayne's metalmind was. Incidentally, here's the direct quote to let us gauge how much was stored in the metalmind: So, even if we take "mostly full" to mean 2/3 full and "months" to mean 2 months, that's half a year of storage, at the very least. And Wayne tells us in Alloy that it takes about 2 weeks of storage to heal a gunshot wound. And then, how much storage did we see the Set have in BoM? At the end of the book, Telsin takes two shotgun blasts (albeit, one to the face), Edwarn heals a cut on his arm and heals from crashing through two layers of the airship before Wax punches him out. I think they're comparable to how Wayne soaks up "a dozen bullets" (BoM pg 303) (approximately 6 months of stored healing) and walks away when they're escaping the airship. So, yeah, that's a minimum of 18 months of healing stored up. A lot - but when else would the Set be using their healing? We also don't know how many people the Set have storing health, or how long they've been doing it for. Again, it is definitely possible that they're using a compounder to generate these stores, but I'm still not convinced. But just because I find it unlikely, that doesn't mean the Set doesn't have Compounders. I just think all the spiked Compounders are running around in the Southern continent, creating medallions.

If they had a compounder, they wouldn't be making anyone weak, as is implied in the original quote. Also, I wonder if they'd even give one of their own Gold compounding, after seeing how devastating Miles was with it.

You're right that they do seem pretty similar, but are they happening in the Cognitive Realm? It's been a while since I've read Emperor's Soul, but it seems to me that, by rewriting an object's history, Forging works in the Spiritual realm. You're messing with Connection, which seems to be a property of the Spiritual Realm, not the Cognitive Realm. But do inanimate objects even have Connection, or is that something that only people have? In Bands, we see them manipulating Connection to a homeland, but is that Connection to a physical place (northern continent) or to a group of people (inhabitants of the greater Elendel region)? (Now I kinda wish you had posted this on the Secret History forum, so we could apply some of those Realmatic revelations.) So, I'm gonna assume that Forgery operates by changing Connection, like the medallions do, and I'll be prepared to eat all my words in case I go back and check and Forgery does work in the Cognitive realm. Let's bring Soulcasting into this for a deeper look at transformations: Soulcasting changes how an object perceives itself and is perceived in the Cognitive Realm to enact a permanent change. Forging changes how an object is Connected (i.e. its history) to enact a temporary change. Translation medallions (Duralumin Feruchemy) change how a person is Connected to enact a temporary change. Some changes are physical, some are mental (maybe more Cognitive?), but I'm not sure if there's actually a distinction. Just because we haven't seen a Soulcasting mental change or a. F.Duralumin physical change, does that mean they're not possible? For example, if I was a Duralumin Feruchemist, would I be able to store my Connection to McDonalds and enact a physical change in my body? So, I'm not trying to distinguish what kinds of changes are accomplished through use of these magic systems. Permanent vs temporary might be a more fruitful analysis; however, with only three data points, these might just be idiosyncrasies of the various Magic systems, not necessarily representative of Cognitive- or Spiritual-based transformations. But the reason Spiritual-based transformations are temporary might be due to Connection reverting itself, so when you stop actively using the Magic system (i.e. don't refresh the seal or stop using Feruchemy), Connection reverts, and the change is undone. Contrast that with Soulcasting, where once the transformation has happened, it doesn't try to go back. (i.e. Shallan doesn't need to keep feeding Stormlight to the pile of blood, or else it will go back to being a goblet.) It looks like you can use either the Cognitive or the Spiritual realm to perform transformations in the cosmere. Spiritual-based changing makes a fake history, while Cognitive-based transformation just smashes through that history with enough Investiture. Translation medallions and Forgery both appear to be the former of the methods of transformation. Good observation.

Well, this is the first time we've seen Devotion and Autonomy included outside of WoB. So... better than nothing, I guess? But, yeah, it would have been cool if either Khriss or the Ire had mentioned a new Shard.

It's interesting how it's the Ire talking about Fortune; they're not from Scadrial, so why would they be talking about Feruchemy? But it appears the four attributes that Spiritual Feruchemy stores - Connection, Investiture, Fortune, and Identity - are present throughout the cosmere, and they're not just obscure Feruchemical powers. Especially since we saw that Connection is a huge part of the Spiritual Realm. I wonder how other Magic Systems deal with Connection, Fortune, and Identity... the Moon Scepter altering your Connection is one possibility.

For getting it started, remember it was TLR/Kelsier/Sovereign (I'm still not sure how to refer to that guy), who was a Mistborn and Full Feruchemist, so he could have easily created whatever medallions were necessary to keep things going. Also, he was spiked through the eye, so he might have given them knowledge of Hemalurgy to combine a few powers into one person, so they could make more medallions. As for how anyone can tap Nicrosil... you're right, it doesn't fit the Pre-BoM understanding of feruchemy. Maybe everyone's a Nicrosil ferring? Or maybe it's like Breath on Nalthis, where there's a kind of Investiture that anyone can take in (so, everyone could tap Nicrosil, but not necessarily fill it). It's a shame there's no tour for this book; it certainly raises a lot of questions.

Do you know where to find a direct quote? I've been looking for info on those symbols for a few months, now. Do we know for certain that there is no metal associated with the symbols? Or that the Scadrians don't associate metals with those symbols (since they don't know about them)?

Maybe I'll get it right this time. Assuming you start with an unkeyed nicrosil metalmind that has F.Nicrosil and F.Aluminum, and give it to a Brass Ferring: 1. Ferring Taps Nicrosil. Gains F.Nicrosil and F.Aluminum. Now has three F. Abilities. 2. Ferring Stores in Aluminum, storing Identity. Doesn't matter what in. From now on, whatever he stores will be unkeyed. 3. Ferring Stores in Nicrosil, storing unkeyed F.Brass ability. Creates the Nicrosil part of the medallion. 4. Ferring Stops storing in Nicrosil. Regains F.Brass ability. 5. Ferring Stores in Brass, storing unkeyed heat. Creates the Brass part of the medallion. Those initial medallions would have come from the Sovereign. Also, Step 1 is the second question in your original post; I don't entirely get how it's possible, but it definitely works. It's how we have seen the Bands and the Medallions behave. Anyone can tap unkeyed Nicrosil; however, it is the only metalmind that behaves that way. So, at no point do you need to tap identity to do this. A nicrosil ferring doesn't need F.Aluminum to TAP someone else's metalmind, but to STORE in his own, so that he can store unkeyed Investiture. Did I finally understand what you're asking?

That's a good way of looking at F.Nicrosil, Maths. I had interpreted it as being like F.Copper, where there's a discrete thing you put away to access later, but I think your way makes more sense. It explains why TLR could create the Bands without giving up his own abilities. He just spent a while going without one or the other, or just compounded Nicrosil in the first place. However, like natc said, the south still needs nicrosil compounding, since now there's a finite resource in each part of the medallion. For each man-hour of medallion usage, you would need 1 man-hour of nicrosil storage. With 100 crew members using F.Iron aboard an airship, that could mean (100*24*7=) 16,800 hours of Nicrosil storage for one week of flight. Then add on the other abilities, like F.Brass, F.Duralumin. I assume there is A.Steel, since that's what powers the ship. And that's just one ship - what about the rest of the civilization? As for the brass compounders... do we know if the SoScads live underground? It would be an odd civilization, that lives underground and has airships. They certainly didn't live underground when TLR/Kelsier/Spikey showed up; they were freezing to death in a building above-ground. They may have since moved down below, but they needed a way to recharge the medallions right after they were saved, when they obviously didn't have geothermal energy. But, if they can recharge their medallions without using geothermal energy, why would they move underground in the first place? It's frustrating, knowing so little about the SoScads - I can get the impression that everyone uses Brass medallions to go about life-as-usual on the surface, while you can come up with them living underground and only coming out for expeditions like this one. It could definitely go both ways, and I'm sure we'll find out more when we get the fourth and final Wax and Wayne novel. I'll have to look through this book with a finer comb, to see if I can come up with anything more conclusive for the southern civilizations. But for now, I'm gonna stand by compounders. In a society where they can grant abilities more easily and reversibly than Hemalurgy, I think compounding would be well-used. (Although, there are some funky things going on with Allomancers down there. I assumed that there were Allomantic Medallions, but we have only seen Feruchemical abilities thus far. Allik worships Allomancers like Wax, Wayne, and Marasi... should the Southerners able to make A.Steel medallions as easily as they make F.Brass coins? So why is Allomancy so rare? Is it kept secret? Do they realize they can store Allomancy in a nicrosilmind? Or is someone keeping it a secret for their own purposes... so many questions.)

Aha, I think I see what you're saying now. Metalborn abilities aren't tied to your Identity (capital i). VenDell says Identity is connected to the Spiritual Realm; magical abilities are more related to the Cognitive Realm. (To the best of my understanding. Which is why Snapping on Scadrial happens to those who suffer trauma, and why Spren are also attracted to the mentally damaged on Roshar.) So, storing identity is who you ARE, not what you can do. So, when you store in Aluminum, you don't lose any other abilities. That's what I suspect storing in Nicrosil does, though - store your abilities in a metalmind. So, I would take your question in a slightly different direction: how can a Nicrosil Ferring store his F.Nicrosil power in a Nicrosil metalmind, since he loses the ability to store as he stores his ability? (That's a mouthful.) In another thread, I said that I think compounding is used to create and recharge these medallions, so you don't need to give up your F.Nicrosil ability to store it. That helps you

Are we talking about Nazh here, too? Because it looked to me like he had a laser gun. A "screaming ghost" might have just been a blast of energy or plasma. And the way it was powered, by glowing symbols? Anyone else think it might have come from Sel? A good ol' Elantrian Blaster Pistol?

I have not read the novella yet. (I'm pretty busy the rest of the week, so I'm fine waiting on Amazon to get their act together.) I have not read a single post in this forum. I just wanted to come in and say that all the titles popping up in the news ticker are tantalizing me to death. Not saying that they're spoilers, but I'm wondering what the heck happened in this book that makes people mention stuff like Yolen and Spikey. Keep up the good work. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this one.

What do you mean by a non-Feruchemical aluminum ferring? Someone who has gained Identity from a medallion? An aluminum ferring that isn't a full Feruchemist?

Yes, he's talking about his Hemalurgic spikes, but that's meaningless if he's not talking about what powers they give him. Three boons - A.Steel, A.Chromium, and I think F.Gold. (This is why I don't like to post at work, because I can't go through and check the books. That, and I'm supposed to be working. He used F.Gold to heal from the cave-in he set off, the one that killed Wax, right?) He can only have three Metalborn powers, but one of those "boons" is more powerful than normal, since he doesn't have to spend time sick to gain a stockpile of healing. (If it turns out he doesn't have any Feruchemical abilities, this point still stands, even though he doesn't use it personally. I remember for sure that Telsin had F.Gold.) And the exact quote provided in the first post is "make someone else be weak," not "make someone else feel weak" [emphasis mine]. Being weak is repeatedly associated with Feruchemy, not with Allomancy or Hemalurgy. (Well, unless you count being dead as being weak. In which case it definitely fits Hemalurgy.) That's how you knew when Sazed or Wayne was storing - they wore glasses, or felt sick, or walked with a cane, because they were weak. As to whether or not Irich's crippling was a new application of Hemalurgy... that's not the impression I had. Without the book in front of me, I can only post my recollections: He had a diagnosis of 6 months. Unless Edwarn says "I'm gonna completely tap your health out over the course of the next year," where would that number come from? It made me think it was a natural disease, one that he had diagnosed by a doctor. He was looking for a miracle to heal him. What would that miracle be? I thought it was a way of getting F.Gold. The way I saw it, he was looking for a medallion to give him a healing ability and a stockpile of healing. He might have even joined the Set originally since they were transferring powers using Hemalurgy. That being said, I'll definitely take a closer look when I get the chance. (i.e. while I'm waiting for Amazon to send out Secret History) and see how accurately my first impressions held up. It would be a good way for Brandon to hide a new secret, in a phenomenon that we can easily assume is natural, and I wholeheartedly agree that the Set would take advantage of their own members like that.

In Soviet Southern Scadrial, metals burn you.

For the first question: Allik said that medallions with two metals were common, and three metals were possible. So, once they got started (probably the TheLordRuler/TheSurvivor), a F-Aluminum/F-Nicrosil medallion could potentially be used with any Metalborn to create medallions of their power. For the second... I'm in the same boat as you. If you could make a Nicrosil mind that anyone could tap, to let them gain a Metalborn ability to tap something else, then why not just skip the Nicrosil step entirely? We might get a hint from Warbreaker. There, humans can give up part of their Innate Investiture, or absorb someone else's Innate Investiture. Because Nicrosil deals directly with Investiture, its abilities might be unlocked to everyone who has a bit of Preservation in them. It's not that anyone can tap Nicrosil, it's that anyone can tap Innate Investiture (which, of course, Nicrosil can hold directly). I'm specifying Innate Investiture, because on Roshar you need a spren to hold Stormlight; only certain kinds of Investiture, the kind that come from people (Breath, Metallic Arts abilities) can be drawn directly. EDIT: Accidentally had F-Iron/F-Nicrosil. Thanks for the correction.

Let's not forget: there are four more symbols that don't correspond to any known metal. Based on the conventions, it seems to indicate that there are two more metals, with their respective alloys. (Dot on the outside indicates pure metal, dot on the inside indicates alloy.) So, I doubt there are three ettmetal alloys. I wonder if ettmetal is 19 or 21? I think it's also worth noting that Aluminum and Chromium do not destroy Investiture, they just block it. Either removing metal reserves (the key to power, not the source of power) or even stopping Nazh's laser gun for a moment (which he turned back on quickly enough). Assuming that ettmetal is the External Pushing metal of its quadrant, the External Pulling metal (an ettmetal alloy) might have a larkin-like effect, actually destroying the Investiture. As for the Internal metal... I wonder what else is in a primer cube? Something that takes in and replicates the usage of Investiture, possibly? Lying Orlion, you make a good point: while ettmetal interacts with Allomancy, no one has burned it (and, seeing as it reacts violently with water, I certainly wouldn't recommend swallowing it), so it might not be a true "Allomatic metal." But it does appear that we have a "real" metal (either Alkali or Alkaline Earth) with new properties on Scadrial, so I would definitely say that this is a function of the Metallic Arts, a previously unrevealed aspect that unlocks mechanical Allomancy.

I'm with TheHunter on this one. When Wayne used the gold metalmind from the Set, he was gaining the benefit without having to be weak first to store up health. The Set's inventors were halfway to the Southern Medallions; they had the unkeyed metalmind, but not the nicrosilmind. I think they spiked a gold feruchemist with aluminum feruchemy (or vice versa) and had that person storing health to pass out to the Set's other gold feruchemists.

I think you need to include compounding in the mix to get the effects we've seen. There are two phenomona where we see these medallions provide and "end-positive" effect based on Feruchemy: Giving warmth to SoScads: storing heat and using it later wouldn't help anybody survive in Scad-artctica (Antarctial? I'm trying to find a good combination of Scadrial and Antarctica), there needs to be an external heat source. Bronze compounding would be able to create as much heat as you need, recharging the medallions. Creating additional metalborn. Each medallion creates a ferring, sometimes with two or three powers. (Outside of the Bands themselves, we haven't seen anything that grants Allomancy, but I'll assume that's possible). Feruchemy stores what you have for later; the usual rules would indicate that, by storing up one person's Feruchemical ability, you would only produce one Feruchemist later. That's where I think compounding Nicrosil comes in. It lets a Nicrosil ferring store an ability in a metalmind without losing it himself. So, that makes me think that the SoScads have compounders. I'm not sure if Firemothers/Firefathers are devices or organizations; they could be individuals or machines who compound, it doesn't much matter to me. I think that one fills the brass with heat, and the other fills the nicrosil with Brass Ferring ability. (Remember, memories outside of a coppermind degrade, so it would make sense that Metallic-Arts-ability would decay as well. These compounders would refresh existing medallions that had been used a lot and create new medallions to support population growth.) Both of these compounders would need to store Identity as well, giving them three abilities - the most that Allik says he had seen in a medallion. I wonder how the Excisors fit into that, though. I hope it's not their name for Hemalurgy. (Excise the power from a Brass misting into a Brass ferring, and there you have your brass compounder. Yikes.) Ettmetal, however, and primers... I need to mull those over a little more. Do some research on Group 1 and Group 2 metals. But I think that the "Allomatic Grenade" ability is a side affect. The primer cubes (as Allik calls them) draw their power from the ettmetal in the ship, acting as a key to guide how the energy acts. The cubes hold a little bit of energy, but just enough to hold the buzzing for a moment until they come in contact with the main power source. I thought of it as trying and failing to start up a lawnmower. You pull the cord, the engine turns over a few times, but it doesn't sustain the motion.

I like it. It certainly parallels what Ruin did in the original trilogy: altering the words and meaning of a religion to make men (whether Miles or Alendi) do something. Between the two Shards, Preservation couldn't change things, while Ruin could change things quite easily (i.e. all the metalminds of the pre-Ascension Keepers). If a new force was changing the text of the Words of Founding, they might not be as powerful as Ruin, so they would have to use a smaller, barely known religion (as opposed to appropriating Survivorism). Or even if they could change a lot of text, they might be trying to avoid Harmony's attention. Ooh, here's a crazy possibility that just popped into my head: what if Trelagism never made it into the Words of Founding? What if Ruin changed Sazed's metalminds before he was killed, and it's taken this long for his time-bomb, Trellism, to have noticeable results? That way, Harmony wouldn't have noticed the difference between the two religions, because his copperminds didn't have Trelagism anymore? I don't think the Words of Founding would have been transcribed into metal. From the Scadrians' point of view, Sazed gave them Words of Founding, so why would he bother to secretly change the texts on them? But that would still be a good thing to have clarified, if the opportunity arises. SoS spoilers: