Fifth Scholar

I have found my evidence that I am not Ruin (which admittedly isn’t conclusive, but it’s better than nothing): I went for Odium N0, when under pressure for being Odium or Autonomy. You can see me reveal this to the thread on D1. I got put in a “chickens PM” with El, Sart, Jondesu, Ripple, and... shoot, I forget. Mage, I think? Don’t want to check the PM for fear of losing this post. Not really sure what Cultivation is playing at, but whatever. Anyone else get a weird PM? I could see Jondesu or Joe as Ruin, honestly. And people make a good point about Eternum’s activity patterns not matching with Ruin’s destruction patterns, but I hate using that as a way to clear people . To be fair, it’s possible Eternum went for Ruin N0 and just didn’t post in thread, so I’m not crossing him off our list of suspects. Out of Jondesu and Joe, I’d suspect Jondesu a bit more, but again, we don’t have much to go on, since Jondesu hasn’t said much, and @A Joe in the Bush just arrived (please say something, Joe, I’d like to see more from you). I might end up getting lynched just because I’m the most vocal, and I’d honestly hate that. Let’s see how this goes. I’ll poke Eternum for now, because even if he’s not Ruin, I’d like to hear him say something that isn’t just “I’m not Ruin.”

First of all, how has Ruin’s power been overused? He’s blown up two planets, sure, but he didn’t take any kind of action N2 as far as we know, and other than that has just been worldhopping. Eternum is definitely active enough to be Ruin. Being Ruin does not preclude somebody from being an Elim. I maintain that Khriss is likely in possession of Ruin at the moment, because I still see a lot of incentive for her trying for Ruin N0. I’d like to point out that Roshar is not the only location possible for Ruin, despite it being the most likely. I’d take a good hard look at Taldain, to be honest, as it’s nearly as powerful a planet as Roshar, and doesn’t have an Autonomic aspect protecting it. Could we get a list of players on Taldain from someone who’s there right now? However, I agree that Eternum and I are still the biggest suspects. I’d like a bit more explanation as to your vote on me, than just “you’re most likely to be Ruin.” While Bard has good analysis, it precludes Ruin being anywhere else right now, and leaves several suspects open. I’d still like those lists of people on planets during N2, before I vote on anybody for being Ruin. Finally, I’m going to pick one or two players and do some analysis on them. Drought probably, since he’s up for lynch, but a few others if I can as well.

I’d like for everybody who was in a world doc, with any player at any time, to list those players. Meanwhile, Bard’s analysis is interesting, and I’d agree with him that Eternum and I are the most likely Ruins. Knowing my innocence, but with no way to prove it, I’ll assume that Eternum is Ruin for now. Hopefully those lists will start rolling in, and once my name isn’t on any of them it will soft-clear me. And Roshar makes sense as a planet Ruin would want to blow up, because the ability to convert Investiture might make him a bit nervous.

Err...no, unfortunately. I can report not having Investiture, at all, because I keep going for released Shards, but other than that I have no way of proving it. However, the people on Roshar can confirm that I washed ashore there today. In response to Sart’s point, a lot of people probably got roleblocked last night, so that’s probably why no kills went through. And Ruin is using their planet destruction, and not their vig kill. Have you passed Ambition yet, Randuir?

I’ve been in Silverlight since the game started, and was roleblocked last night when Ruin destroyed it.

I am, Joe. Planning on worldhopping tomorrow, though. Welcome Ripple! Sorry Monster’s responsibilities got the better of him. Rest up and return refreshed, @MonsterMetroid. Gotta ask HH: You’ve held Autonomy for three full cycles now. If the win con is based on a timer (which I think it is), then did you get a new win con? I’m mainly concerned about Odium and Ruin, and not you. If we just got two hostile Shards with new win cons and kills that shear through most protection, without Honor on the table yet...yikes. I’m not disappointed in the lynch. We got good discussion, and at long last, confirmable results. Hopefully tomorrow we’ll have more to work with from tonight’s chaos.

After failing to direct the lynch away from him, I would assume Straw Invested or passed his Shard to have more control over where it ended up.

Straw (9): Devotary, Drake Marshall, Eternum, Fifth Scholar, Hemalurgic Headshot, Randuir, The Sand Lord, TheYoungPyromancer, Young Bard Only one of Auto’s aspects voted on Straw, meaning HH probably worldhopped when he saw lynch pressure shifting at the end of the cycle. We can expect a new aspect to pop up soon, I think. For what it’s worth, I’m sorry we lynched Straw, but I maintain he was a better target than HH, if only because there were more unknowns about him. And the Shard is not in Mage’s hands, if Straw Invested in someone else today, which I think is likely. If Preservation could claim, that would be great. Now begins the pile-on to get Honor...

Why do we need to kill HH? Are you worried about Autonomy? Because all that will happen is that somebody, potentially an Elim, will inherit his Shard and win con.

I...don’t know what’s going on. All I know is that someone who wasn’t even registering on my reads is getting lynched. Okay... Drake Marshall to protect from vote manip, I guess Edit: And that’s the cycle.

10 people viewing the thread o_O Eternum, I’d like you to attempt to build a lynch case against somebody with two one-line posts. It’ll be tenuous at best. But it’s a stronger case than I’ve seen against Madagascar, who’s posted a lot more, and being voted on for...suspecting Eternum? That’s not a great reason, even if you don’t agree with some of the points she’s made. I can’t respond to all the points everyone’s making, but to address LL: Why are you voting for me? Because I used the term “Elims,” and you believe I somehow know if the Elims have conversions or not? That’s very tenuous, even moreso than my Drought lynch.

Okay. I have a lynch suggestion, which is hopefully better than Eternum or Madagascar (because while I understand concerns about her, I have a strong enough village feel from her posts that I’m reticent to lynch her). Said lynch suggestion is Drought. Behold his posts. Sarcastic refutation of STINK’s assertion that he’s evil, but at the same time it feels like he’s trying to make this too offhand and casual, to project the feeling that he doesn’t care about STINK’s accusation. Normally, I’d call this NAI, but it’s actually giving me a bit of an elim-y vibe. Joke vote, albeit never retracted. And again, the humor feels a bit forced. Drought then disappears for the rest of the cycle, after sending a few PMs. So he dropped in early, made two sarcastic comments, and then never bothers to check in again? Even if he isn’t an Elim, this isn’t the greatest kind of activity to encourage. And neither of those comments particularly helped the village or advanced discussion. Anyone like to join me in a Drought lynch?

Oh shoot, that Dominion point is good. I hadn’t considered that o_O Dominion in Hoid’s or Khriss’s hands doing that would not be cool. Your concern, in that light, is understandable. Do we know that using Shardic power brings you closer to its win con? I thought it was a simple timer. I mean, HH has been using Autonomy a lot, got him N0, and still (apparently) has a village win con. Joe, I’m not sure that clears Straw. You could be Elims with him, or he might have targeted a villager just to try to gain village cred. Hmm...your point is fairly good, however. I don’t really have a better lynch target, though, so I’ll stick to him for now. Not sure I like the HH lynch much anymore, either. Votes: HH(7): El 1, Stick 1, Stick 3, Fifth 1, Jondesu 1, Straw 1, Arinian 1, Eternum 1, Sart 1, Joe 1, Shanerockes 1, Mage 2 Straw(5): Pyro 1, Mage 1, HH 1, Stick 2, Fifth 2, Megasif 2, Rand 2, Eternum 2, HH 3 Drought(0): Rand 1, Megasif 1 Arinian(0): HH 2 Jondesu(1): Drake 1 Randuir(0): DoS 1 Livinglegend(1): Bard 1, Megasif 3 MonsterMetroid(2): Stick 4, Bard 2 This is the fully accurate, up-to-date vote tally. As it stands, Straw is probably getting lynched because Sand Lord and Patji will jump to HH’s defense. Four hours for everyone to decide who they want to kill.

Not sure about the swing away from Straw. I don’t think it’s a bad assumption to say lynches can be Eliminator-driven, but they can still hit Elims because there are two Elim teams, so retracting a vote on a person by saying “this seems too easy” as an excuse seems weak. The HH lynch never had much opposition, yet still accrued 7 votes. And people seemed fine with it before he claimed Autonomy. @Sart HH would definitely have incentive to swing the vote; he’s up for the lynch. I see this as self-preservation, and not an Eliminator kind of motive. Plus, as Randuir pointed out, we have no way of knowing if Auto’s win con will help or harm the village. HH will likely get it tonight, though, so hopefully that point will be cleared up soon. @Megasif I too would appreciate an explanation for your vote. @randuir Why would you not use your anonymous vote before passing the Shard? There’s no reason not to use your Shardic ability, especially if you’re about to pass it to another player. @_Stick_ If you’re “very unsure” about Monster being Elim, why did you vote on him?

It was early in the cycle, with 2 days to go. Even leading in the lynch by 2 that early doesn’t matter much, because lynch pressure can shift very easily. Claiming that early seemed like a preliminary attempt to gain trust. We know the least about him because all the other Shards have nearly iron-hard claims to back them up. Pyro is clearly Survival. You could be Ruin, but it’s highly unlikely you’d go for Investiture over a kill or planet destruction. (Plus you seem fairly village.) HH claimed Autonomy and we can track his every action, and his story matches up, especially if @TheYoungPyromancer can get on to strengthen his claim. Straw? All we have is Mage’s claim he was Invested in, and that could have been done by an Elim teammate holding Preservation. It’s also much harder to analyze his motives and track his actions. Vote count: HH(4): El 1, Stick 1, Stick 3, Fifth 1, Jondesu 1, Straw 1, Arinian 1, Eternum 1 Straw(7): Pyro 1, Mage 1, HH 1, Stick 2, Fifth 2, Megasif 2, Rand 2, Eternum 2, HH 3 Drought(0): Rand 1, Megasif 1 Arinian(0): HH 2 Jondesu(1): Drake 1 Randuir(0): DoS 1 Livinglegend(1?): Bard 1? (Your vote is in quote boxes, you may want to state it more clearly so it’ll count)

I like the way this lynch discussion has been going. We now have 4(!) claimed Shards, leaving only 6 as unknowns. Overall, this isn’t terrible. However, I’d like to lynch somebody today. As @randuir points out, the chances of Hoid!HH or Khriss!HH are very low, and the chance of him being a N0 convert are similarly slim. So I’d actually like to retract from Hemalurgic Headshot. While ordinarily his role wouldn’t clear him, the way he’s used his actions signifies, to me at least, that he is an unlikely Elim. So who else to lynch? I’m thinking Straw. He’s the most suspicious of our claimed Vessels, and is also the one we know the least about. There’s ample room in his action schedule to have been converted by either faction, or to be Hoid/Khriss himself. And his choice of Shard, and willingness to claim earlier when he was in no significant danger, struck me as somewhat off. Finally, I’d like to propose that whether we lynch HH or Straw, we do it with the entire village, so it’s harder for the Elims to track where the Shard ends up. So if the village swings to Straw, we should do it with everything we have.

Okay, Randuir. Do you still claim to have a Shard? Is it Ambition? (It’s that or Ruin, so...) And Pyro, if world docs aren’t anonymous, we’d all love to know who Autonomy is.

This.

World docs are anonymous (I think, from what Pyro’s said). Dominion can only redirect actions that target a specific player. So if Randuir is a Shard, and was redirected by Dominion, he took an action that targeted a player. So Ruin/Ambition are out, I think.

If Randuir was redirected by Dominion, he would have had to take an action that is targetable by Dominion’s ability: Ruin’s kill action, which would have registered in the writeup, so providing Randuir is telling the truth about being redirected, which I think he is, he can’t be Ruin. He isn’t Odium or Dominion, unless he’s a very gutsy Dominion. But I find that unlikely. Ambition is a distinct possibility. Don’t see why he couldn’t be Autonomy, as Randuir could be on Scadrial right now. Preservation is a possibility if (tinfoil incoming) he’s Elim teammates with Straw. That may explain the lack of an action on Ruin’s part, actually- a Ruin!Elim!Straw could have arranged to kill Pyro, and a Preservation!Elim!Randuir could have invested Randuir and targeted someone else at night, then gotten redirected to Pyro. Told you it was a tinfoil He’s likely not Survival, but could be Culty assuming Cultivation!Elim!Randuir. Again, tinfoil. I see Ambition>Autonomy>Preservation=Cultivation>Odium=Ruin=Dominion=Survival. There. Edit: Nope, Ambition’s out, because he targets in dead doc and there wasn’t anyone there. Plus, just realized Pyro claimed he was roleblocked, and Randuir claimed to have been redirected to Pyro. Barring tinfoils, we’ve found Autonomy. Edit 2: This begs the question, @randuir: Did you take action(s) that clear HH, and if so, what were they?

Am I actually being lynched right now? Wow. I’ve tried to get myself killed D1 in two games now, and I might actually get lynched D1 here, when I actually want to play the game. @Coop772, established consensus among SE players is to have a lynch, or at least to intend to have one, on Day 1, because the discussion it generates helps to build reads on players and potentially eliminate an early suspect. Your suggestion, while likely well-intended, would have led to stagnation in lynch discussion and potentially triggered a harmful effect to the village, which is why I hedged against it. In addition, the lynch, as far as we know right now, is the only means by which the village can dispose of Eliminators. While Eliminators can manipulate lynch discussion, they will always do so, and the village’s job is to find and eliminate those players via, again, the lynch. My arguing for lynch discussion on players of the game was done to revitalize lynch discussion, which has sputtered to a near-halt, and focus our attention on other players that we think might be Elims, and not on the GM. With that said, I appreciate you commenting on me, as that’s exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to provoke, though hopefully you’ll be persuaded to remove your vote, as I’d obviously rather not die

Something tells me this community is so hardened to Joe’s games that whenever there’s secret information, they assume lynching the GM will do something. Because of this prevalence of GM-lynching, I doubt Elenion would have made finding out the source of the killings so easy, and is probably going to laugh into his sleeve if we actually vote to lynch him. I’d like to focus our attention back on the people who are actually playing the game.

@randuir there’s a little over a day left in this cycle, so unless you have commitments tomorrow you should be able to post again, because rollover was extended. What’s your exact reasoning for voting on Drought, again?

Discussion stalls. Claims, rumors to return Shards abound, Confusing many. Confusion abounding, Shards return to rumored claims, Stalling discussion. That’s a bad ketek, and doesn’t really capture my point well, but what I’m trying to say is that the thread and lynch discussion shouldn’t stall from this kind of hearsay-based discussion. While I’d appreciate a speedy resolution to this conundrum, I’d also like to hear a bit from people outside the context of this weird situation that’s sprung up. So, @Arinian, @Devotary of Spontaneity, do either of you have thoughts unrelated to the current situation about the lynch?

So he is Autonomy, yet he isn’t? This makes no sense. Can you reveal the name of your contact, and why exactly you trust him? I hate resorting to such measures, but this new development is laced in ambiguity and the village needs to know more.