Isilel

Right, so there is no question that Taln is the greatest hero, that his words to Ash during his brief period of lucidity were beautiful, etc, etc. I also very much hope that he does gets healed, at least partway and has at least a few years of normal-ish life. Concerning his bonding a spren - indeed, that didn't help Nale, or, at least, it didn't help as much as he believed before being forced to aknowledge that he was "getting worse", after all. There is definitely an intriguing connection between Honor going mad and the Heralds ditto, which raises the question what happened first and whether one caused the other. And how and if it could be fixed. Personally, I have an unsupported theory that Ishar and his scholarly collegues have done more than convincing the rest of the Heralds to abandon the Oathpact. They have also somehow made it impossible for Taln to give in/for the Oaths to bend even if he tried, and madness for all of them was the side-effect. That would explain the otherwise unexplicable conviction that Talenel could hold out forever (no matter how awesome he is, that's just nonsense) and also explain why Ishar and Nale believed that letting the Radiants return would carry a small chance of causing a Desolation - because they feared that KRs might somehow accidentially undo the additional bindings that they have cobbled together. Going back to Taln bonding a spren, I have another crackpot theory that Dalinar will give him Oathbringer, which is, IMHO, a Stoneward shardblade and that a broken Herald and a broken spren will help each other heal and return to sanity. Somehow. Certainly the particular way that Dalinar is treating Oathbringer, his specific intention to put him "in good hands" and the fact that his own devotary was that of Talenelelat are all hinting at something, IMHO. If it turns out that there was no contributing secret behind Taln's phenomenal endurance and he was just so much more heroic than the rest of his collegues, I am going to be disappointed. To repeat what I have written on the subject elsewhere: I feel that the Oathpact and how it played out was a bit of missed opportunity in SA. I mean, it is a great idea – 10 different people with different strengths and weaknesses protecting humanity from a terrible danger at the cost of unimaginable suffering and going insane in the process. Only, it turns out that their variety didn’t help them at all, and that the most conventional pick of them all – the ideal soldier-dude, proved to be better at it than the rest of them combined. If only they had picked 10 like him, Roshar would have been safe forever! Alethi were right, after all – being a soldier clearly is the highest Calling. And now he is being presented as an unlikely hero because he wasn’t a scholar or royalty?! Please. I mean, let’s be honest – why would anybody _expect_ of scholars, lawyers or artists, etc., to be the best at fighting and enduring for all eternity? If one of them proved to be the most resilient, _they_ would have been an unlikely hero. Soldier is very much an expected hero – and this undermines the whole idea behind the Heralds and the ideals that they have come to embody. So, while I very much appreciate Taln and his sacrifice, I hope that there is more behind it than him being just sooo much better than the rest of them. And that the hitherto neglected/obscure Heralds get their chance to shine and contribute to salvation of Roshar.

I have no evidence re: May being a cameo, but I suspect that she is, because her name is a RL name that absolutely doesn't fit in with other Alethi names for highborn ladies and sticks out like a sore thumb, IMHO. This is not the case for Lyn - after all, we already had _Tyn_, who, while a lighteyes, was a low-level one and allegedly born abroad to boot. One of her parents may even have been dark-eyed, for all we know. Or it may have been an alias. Both Lyn and Tyn also are similar enough to other short, simple darkeyes names like Khen, Cenn, Tien, etc. @Calderis, Lin Davar does seem to be an exception as far as mid-to-high level lighteyes names are concerned. What is even weirder is that after OB scene where newborn Adolin was named, we know that "-lin" literally means "born of", which makes Lin's name even odder. OTOH, Vedens and their language are similar to the Alethi but not the same, and maybe he was named in honor of or by some eccentric Horneater ancestor? Who shortened his own unpronouncable name to "Lin"?

So, the way Rlain was handled in OB really frustrates me. First of, nobody thinks to ask him about anything, while they are agonizing about how little they know about what is happening to the parshmen, their new capabilities, etc. I mean, what? Even if Rlain can't answer all of their questions, it would have been a very obvious first step to ask for his insights. And as it happens, listener "Songs of..." actually have some clues. Not even to Jasnah, who was so obssessed with parsh history and the bearing that it might have on the present, did it occur to plumb this excellent source of information? Also, Dalinar was so eager to find out why the Parshendi turned on his brother and why they refused any messages after that and until Eshonai's ill-fated parley, preferring to fight a losing war of extermination, - and now he can't even be bothered to ask? And I could understand if the Kholins just simply forgot about Rlain - but Renarin was right there with him, as part of the Bridge Four and simultaneously was an integral part of Dalinar's councils. Also, how could the scholars who have questioned Rlain in WoR possibly forget about him? But there is more - when Bridge 4 had to fight Re-Shepir, one of his people's former, "gods" of legend, I really expected some reaction out of him. Either at the time or afterwards, in his PoV. Nada. And yes, finally, his missing talk with Kal. As to where it is all going, I firmly believe that Rlain will become one of the Bondsmiths, likely Nightwatcher's if she is indeed one of their spren. Something unprecedented needs to happen for anti-Odium side to have a chance - a good chunk of singers needs to ally with humans. And after everything, it will take nothing less than a Bondsmith of their own to make it happen. And no, it can't be a Horneater, for all that Rock does have some Bondsmithy qualities. Horneaters are considered fellow humans by other humans, they have been Radiants in the past, etc. The necessary dynamic and trust aren't there. It has to be a listener because new singers just don't enough life experience to fulfill the role. Rlain's unique position as a bridge between humans and listeners (once he finds out about the escaped refusniks) already pre-disposes him for this task, though admittedly, Eshonai's flashbacks could also introduce somebody else who could do it. And there is another matter - which, I am not sure if it is an oversight or something else - there should be thousands of listener children somewhere. Maybe even tens of thousands. There allegedly were 100K listeners or more before the war and even if they mostly stopped having kids during it - though they had _some_ mateforms among them, so some children must have been conceived during the war as well, all the kids who were young when the war broke out should still be around.

Personally, I don't particularly care. I liked Lyn, though once I heard that she was a tuckerization I payed her less attention, thinking that she'd remain a small cameo. But I remember reading somewhere later that Sanderson already had the character in mind - in fact she appeared as a nameless messenger in WoR, and just needed a proper-sounding name, which Lyn absolutely is. I have more problems with May Aladar, frankly, because "May" absolutely isn't a fitting name for a daughter of a highprince and for all the mentions she got, she had nothing to do. How many times have we been told that darkeyes typically have short names, while lighteyes have longer, grander ones? Also introducing a May and a Mayalaran in the same book is just confusing.

Well, I doubt that OB had already been planned in such detail by the time the change was made, even though it must have come relatively late in the process of writing WoR, as Iyatil's attempt at Amaram was already planned and Szeth's revival has been fitted rather awkwardly (IMHO) onto what feels like a lovingly polished final fight with a mortal outcome. And the 3rd book was originally supposed to be Szeth's posthumous flashback book anyway, tentatively named "Stones Unhallowed" (IIRC). But yes, I imagine that some idea of Dalinar and Sadeas eventually dealing with the Thrill and other issues in the opposite ways and the contrast between their past and current selves must have been playing in Sanderson's mind. And it is deliciously ironic that Dalinar has been doing during the series what young Sadeas had repeatedly and futilely urged him to do in the past, and the old Sadeas absolutely hated it when his "dear old friend" started to follow his past advice at long, long last... So yea, there could have been some interesting stuff there. As to the double sword fight, IMHO it was both nonsensical and underwhelming, so missing it would have been an improvement. Nale will demonstrate the proper dual-sharding to us in a much more exciting manner at some point, I am sure. Yea, that's what they _tell_ us in OB, but what was shown from Cenn's and Kal's PoVs was very different. First of all, what kind of excuse is it that Amaram didn't have "good" soldiers? He was in charge of that army for about 5 years - more than enough time to form it to his standards, even sending some soldiers to Sadeas. If proper institutional culture had been established, then he could have easily handled the steady influx of new recruits, particularly since he was fighting third-rate opponents. Historically, Roman legions for instance, sometimes had to be raised and trained in a couple of months. Spear was such a popular weapon for such a long time because it was fairly easy and quick to learn to use effectively. Cenn had been trained for _3 months_ - that was very decent in historical context. And Kal has been a star soldier for almost 4 years without being sent off to the Shattered Plains. His term of enlistment was almost over when he killed the Shardbearer, so it is untrue that no good soldiers could have been retained. But the truth is that Amaram's army had systemic problems, which were entirely his fault and reveal him as a bad general, even though the books try to tell us that he was good. I.e.: Spearmen effectiveness very much depends on their ability to remain in formation and defend each other. As such, widespread practices such as blatantly sacrificing the weaker members of the squad are corrosive, since soldiers can't depend on or trust each other. And anybody can become "weak" at any time, through injury, sickness, etc. Not to mention that the re-forming necessary to set up sacrificial lambs would be somewhat tricky and often give the enemy a real opening. A good general would stomp on this hard. His army can never stay in formation even in the initial phase of an engagement. This is very bad for effectiveness of spearmen - and the army largely consisted of them. Again, a good general would have enforced this. I know that he didn't have the best officers, but he could have promoted hungry, low-level lighteyes who'd follow his instructions instead. That's what Dalinar has always done and he was allegedly Amaram's example. Surgeons not evacuating darkeyed wounded from the field even though they had resources to do so - there is a reason that most professionally organized armies attempted to care for wounded soldiers - they were more ready to fight on in a pinch and take injuries, if they had hope that they'd be cared for. And since, unlike during the majority of RL human history, Rosharans know their aseptics and antiseptics, they even have a pretty good chance of healing many of the wounded. In most cases doing so would be cheaper than recruiting and training a replacement, particularly since soldiers who have been in battles, blooded troops are worth much more than newbies. The stuff with recruiting young boys and putting them in the front line is another example of mismanagement. You don't need to be a humanitarian to see that it is wholly counter-productive. In England when levies were called up the lowest age was 15, Romans began their military service at 17. Also worth noting that when former messenger _boys_ were uselessly and wastefully put into the ranks, Amaram's army still had messenger _men_. Kal interracted with one. Ditto Kal, a trained surgeon's apprentice being put into the ranks. Despite there being a lot of talk of how valuable surgeon's skills are to the army. Etc. Frequent battles with high losses that never led to any decisive resolution also suggest that Amaram was weak strategically. Particularly since all the best commanders _were_ at the Shattered Plains, so he had to contend with third-raters. It is the same with Amaram supposedly being such a good friend of Dalinar and well-known to Adolin, who was initially glad to see him, but only appearing as a bit flunky of Sadeas in one flashback, with no particular connection to Dalinar even hinted at. So, when could he have possibly become friends with Dalinar? Not during his alcoholic phase, certainly. And after that they were separated geographically. Ditto Amaram being such a devoted Vorin and telling Adolin that it was time for him to settle down... when he was unmarried himself at the same age as Jasnah the heretic! Ditto, Amaram being at odds with Kholins in OB, losing his faith and flipping to Odium... but never flinging Gavilar's damning secrets in their faces. It is now obvious to me that Amaram could never stand scrutiny - he was intended to kick things off for the protagonists, be a foil to them, introduce a hint of intriguing secrets, but not be a character in his own right, with any sort of internal consistency, which even minor characters can and should have. And no, all of this couldn't be explained by him being very good at pretending, because most of it was out in the open. His "Schrödinger's Cat" nature became clear when he overstayed his welcome just so Kal could finally have a guilt-free kill on somebody who had hurt him in the past .

I was very disappointed by what we have seen of Amaram in OB, because he seemed to have hidden depths and was connected to intriguing mysteries, but in the end was used merely as a sop to Kaladin and his fans for not taking over the climax of a book _yet again_. And to make it all the more fan-servicy, Kholins also unexplicably and stupidly snub Amaram and turn him into a verbal punching-bag on his way out. I mean, Amaram had everything to become a religious fanatic put in a very interesting situation of dealing with a genuine prophet of his god (whose visions he knows are genuine, because of Gavilar), who is nevertheless straying into heresy. This could have tied into Vorin opposition to Dalinar, as well as Gavilar's mysterious and dubious doings prior to his death and into Sons of Honor. A very different type of antagonist, one of a kind not yet seen in SA. Instead... sigh. I come back to this: http://faq.brandonsanderson.com/node/467 i.e : "I also changed my mind to let Amaram live in the scene with the poison dart. Adolin killed off Sadeas instead." And IMHO, this really shows. Amaram's story was finished and Sadeas's wasn't quite in Sanderson's mind, so one was used as a stand-in for the other in OB, without regard for the stark differences in character that they had previously exhibited. That's the thing with minor characters - their vividness and hinted depth are largely a sleight of hand and when one is being kept on beyond his expiration date without any additional development, as in this case, the strings begin to show quite obviously. In fact, I have just re-read WoK and WoR and there has always been the case of "Schrödinger's Amaram", it only became impossible to overlook in OB. I.e.: Amaram is a good general. Everybody _says_ so. Except that Kal needs to be the hero while in his army, so everything that we actually _see_ shows that Amaram was actually pretty bad the whole time. Lack of discipline of his army in combat, frequent battles that never led to any kind of resolutions, high losses, wounded soldiers not being fetched from the field, accepting too young, under-sized recruits and throwing them into the grinder, etc., etc. And it isn't even "evil, but efficient", like Sades's bridges. It is just incompetence, when seen objectively. About the only thing that was decent about his leadership was a relatively orderly and law-abiding camp. Amaram is a dear old friend of Dalinar's. They say so in WoR. You'd think that we'd have seen him in Dalinar's flashbacks in this role, then. Serving under him during the wars with the Vedens and Herdazians, maybe. Nope. Etc, etc.

Indeed he was and according to Jasnah he was posing as one of "ambassadors from the West" along with Nale, even though from Szeth's PoV (and maybe also Jasnah's own and even Eshonai's, I am not sure) he was described as looking like an Alethi. And there is really zero chance that he could have been Roshone, because Jasnah thought to herself that she had checked their credentials to make sure that they were safe to have as guests. Not carefully enough, obviously, but there is no way that she could have not noticed him being Roshone. Not to mention that the 2 Heralds _also_ conspicously and publicly chatted up Elhokar at the high table, and we know that Roshone had been exiled some time previously, while Gavilar was traveling and Dalinar was on a drinking binge, which left governance of the capital in Elhokar's hands. Also, I have a feeling that Kalak is probably youthful-looking - he appears to be the youngest among the male Heralds in the depictions. Not to mention that I really don't see a whitespine getting the better of a Herald, even one without a Honorblade. It wouldn't surprise me if we next see Kalak posing as a low-to-mid-level Alethi or Veden Brightlord, but that's all the connection I can see between him and Roshone. BTW, I was rather disappointed that we didn't have a scene of Jasnah showing her brother Hoid's pictures of the Heralds and him being dumbfounded to learn just who was socializing with him during the fateful feast when Gavilar was assassinated... .

I am fairly certain that the Nightwatcher's Bondsmith is going to be a listener. Either Rlain or somebpody introduced/fleshed out in Eshonai's flashbacks. Turning the newly awakened singers away from Odium and the Fused will require a lot of cultivation, growth and transformation, which would be very much in Nightwatcher's purview. Yes, and the Stormfather said that the Sibling had been hurt by humans. It is also all but certain that Melishi wasn't Stormfather's bondsmith, because dying Honor was in the middle of frantically changing SF at the time. He could have been the Nightwatcher's, of course, but IMHO the Sibling fits best. And the thing that hurt the Sibling, then, would have been BAM's imprisonement and the parsh being separated from their Identity as a result. Melishi unintentionally divided on a massive scale instead of uniting and hurt his spren. Alternatively, Sibling's withdrawal could have been part of the Honor's plan. I mean, there are odd contradictions between Honor telling the Radiants that they would destroy their world and basically causing the Recreance, and him then leaving instructions for their re-founding at a later date and claiming in these messages that they were the only hope Roshar had. Maybe it was a long-term gambit, like the one seen in the first Mistborn trilogy and there is more information hidden with the Sibling. According to the epigraphs from the in-world WoR in WoR, one Bondsmith always stayed with Urithiru. It would seem likely that it was the Siblings' Bondsmith and that this god-spren almost continuosly had one, while Urithiru was inhabited. Stormfather's and Nightwatcher's limited understanding of humans also suggests that they hadn't been bonded very often - maybe only during the Desolations? I mean, they already exist and are sapient in the physical realm, they shouldn't have lost as much information when their Knights died as the other Nahel spren. Dalinar, even in his worst days, was someone for whom promises were very important. He was also a lot like a force of nature and, oddly enough, liked to go out during the storms. After Gavilar's death and his visit to the Nightwatcher, he also began to align himself more and more strongly with the Radiants' and Honor's ethos. And the Stormfather was under constraint to pick somebody - and most likely somebody who was already in a leadership position. As we have seen with Kaladin/Syl, Shallan/Pattern and now possibly Adolin and Maya, bonding is one way of awakening/healing a slumbering/hurt spren. We don't know if there are others.

Navani is primarily interested in building new things and figuring what makes things tick, if nobody has done so before, is wholly in the service of this main goal. She is an engineer, not a scientist. Willshaper, not a Dustbringer. Though now that this spot has been filled filled by Venli, she will, IMHO most likely become the Sibling's Bondsmith, which is would also agree with her passion for fabrials and civil planning.

Amaram. Such a waste of potential, just to have a comic-book fight for Kaladin. I keep thinking about Sanderson's original plan for WoR, where Szeth and Amaram were supposed to really and permanently die in their respective near-death experiences and Sadeas lived. I was ecstatic at Torol's death, but looking back, it would have been interesting to see Dalinar's perception and interaction with him change, as he regained his memories. I have said elsewhere that IMHO, Dalinar's misguided attempts to conciliate and ally with Sadeas were in great part rooted in his missing memories. If he had remembered what Thrill addiction felt like and what awful people they all used to be in the "good old days", he would have immediately seen what his "old friend" was up to. In a way, Dalinar probably legitimately came across as somewhat addled to Sadeas . Moash, we shall see. Personally, I found his PoV interesting, though possibly over-long, because we saw how the Fused re-model Alethkar at some depth. And his flip was well enough motivated, I thought. I very much hope that he won't get a build-up into some kind of a big bad, though, it wouldn't feel believable.

Interesting. Can't agree with everything, but yes, all the flashback characters seem to be special even among other Radiants. A couple of quick thoughts: Kaladin did very well fighting against the chasmfiend without connection to Syl. Shallan's illusions helped a lot, sure, but it was still a tremendious achievement on Kaladin's part and with a weapon that he was barely trained in use of, to boot. He also did quite well against the fake door guards when he came to rescue Elokhar, his debiliating injury considered. So, his difficulties in the training yard were mostly due to internal discord and infirmity, IMHO. He was still a very talented fighter even without the bond. Also, per OB Syl wasn't created by Honor, but by the Stormfather. She was one of the first 10 made by him, all the rest of whom became deadeyes. He later made another 10, who became progenitors of all the other currently existing honorspren. Szeth - Sanderson referenced his not properly re-attached soul a few times in WoBs - it is another special thing setting him apart, which will likely come into play at some point. Lift - there is something very mysterious and ominous about her native city Rall Elorim and I think that it's secrets will be a very important part of her flashback. Along with her boon from the the Nightwatcher/Cultivation, her place of origin and, presumably, certain experiences there, is likely what made her special. And while I'd love, love Jasnah becoming a worldhopper and eventually meeting and having philosophical discussions with Sazed, I can't help but notice that Lift is already equipped for surge-binding while on the other worlds without the need for extremely morally dubious practice of accumulating and spending Breaths. Here is to hoping that Jasnah manages to obtain something similar... or maybe she'll have to team up with Lift, who'd supply her with metabolised stormlight during their travels, while they'd be able to visit inhabited worlds without perpendicularities thanks to Jasnah's Transportation? This could be hilarious and pretty cool, now that I think about. Also, Jasnah becoming a worldhopper would be, like, Nohadon squared - to your walk to Urithiru, I raise you walking to _all_ planets with sapient population! And Lift is already a wanderer, so... The WoB that you cited (which was given after WoK only) didn't clarify whether those other characters were supposed to get flashbacks, but if they were and were supposed to become Radiants, I suspect that there would have been changes in the orders compared to what we have now. In particular: IIRC, his shardblade was only described in WoR. And upon re-read, I don't feel that his order affinity was defined in WoK. No. Navani is a builder and was presented as such from her first appearance. Resolute, as well. She was also replaced by Eshonai as a PoV, IIRC. So, Willshaper all the way. Presumably, she would have illuminated first contacts with Parshendi, in this alternative outline having been one of the scholars who interacted with them during the year leading to the disastrous alliance celebration, and she also would have thrown some light on Gavilar's doings during the last years of his life. I like her, but I am glad that we are getting an actual listener flashback instead. Probably Nale, given that Szeth was supposed to die at the end of WoR. IIRC, Szeth noticed him talking to Elokhar at the feast, so we have "met" him in WoK.

4.5 thousands years old steel wouldn't be in particularly good shape, though, even less so in a relatively humid climate. And also, Stormseat was allegedly destroyed during Aharietam, and we have seen in Dalinar's visions that humans only had access to primitive bronze weapons at that point.

How can a shardbalde possibly be useless when it allows you to get in and out of all places not made of aluminium and lets you open all and any containers ditto? Not to mention that it's use as a tool is only limited by one's imagination. I have already wondered if perfect gemstones were produced by artisan-Radiants with the aid of shard gem-cutters. And it wouldn't surprise me if Hoid rocks a shard-flute when occasion demands it, from now on. Etc. And also, Hoid must be terribly lonely and a Cryptic could be a confidant and a companion to him, one who'd never leave or get old and die.

What makes this truth so difficult to accept, beyond the act itself, are the terrible reprecussions it had for the other members of Shallan's family. As such, I don't think that it is something that can be resolved purely internally. Confessing what happened to her brothers, who have born the brunt of said reprecussions and were broken and twisted by them, has to be the necessary part of the process. And to Adolin, who is her new family and will have to deal with the consequences too, knowlingly or not. I am not happy that she didn't do the latter before the marriage, to be honest, but I understand how hard it is for her. Which is why I also think that Dalinar's revelations about what he did to Evi will help Shallan deal with her own family skeletons.

Personally, I suspect that Dalinar's attitude towards Sadeas was strongly colored by the fact that he was missing a lot of his memories and corresponding connections. Particularly how his own addiction to the Thrill felt and Torol playing a devil on his shoulder during the Rift disaster. If he had remembered, he likely would have cottoned on much sooner to what his "old friend" was about. I keep encountering this argument, and yet is there even a slightest doubt that Sadeas, if he was still alive, would have enthusiastically joined Odium and that his army would have followed him? I mean, it isn't as if he was personally loved by his troops - their anger was more of a generalized "group identity" thing. The way I see the Thrill after Dalinar's flashbacks is like overindulging in alcohol or taking drugs - yes, a person often does things under the influence that they would have never done sober, but _they_ were the ones who chose to partake in the first place. At the same time, once addicted, it is difficult to resist. What opened Sadeas's army to Odium's influence was the brutal, competitive way he had been running it for years. It attuned them to the Thrill and opened them to further meddling. Odium himself said that he had been preparing them for a long time, didn't he? Honestly, if Dalinar was a fraction as conciliatory towards Amaram, who was yes, a bad person but potentially salvageable, as he had been to Sadeas, who was so much worse, he likely could have prevented him and at least a part of the army from flipping. I, OTOH, am certain that Shallan confessing the truth about her mother's death to Adolin and her brothers will be a milestone in her character development in the next book. Possibly prompted in some way by the effect of Dalinar's revelations on _his_ family.

Indeed, and it made me wonder what happened to him in OB, given that in Kal's memories and in his brief appearance he didn't seem a Thrill addict, so he shouldn't have succumbed to possession. Also, the bulk of Sadeas's army consisted of normal people, even though the way he ran it attuned them to the Thrill. So what is going to happen to survivors? Oh, and BTW, I suspect that Amaram's flute collection was explicitely mentioned as a foreshadowing for somebody finding Hoid's flute in his effects. Also, another Kaladin's sergeant Tukks was likely a worldhopper - his appearance looks a bit "off" to Kaldin, he is unusually short and he used some odd expressions, IIRC. Though why a worldhopper would join an army fighting in some petty conflict and get himself killed in the process is beyond me. A couple of other things I have noticed on the re-reads of WoK and WoR: Kaladin remembers in WoK that _Tien_ wanted them to go to the Shattered Plains shortly before his death - another hint that Tien was a budding Radiant and was somehow drawn to Dalinar? Parshendi knew about the Honorblades. They were terrified at the evidence of surge-binding from Kaladin and Eshonai tried to calm them down with the notion that he may have had a Honorblade. Amusingly, Mr. T used the same idea as a lie to keep Szeth under his thumb. Parshendi had very well-made steel weapons decorated with beautiful glyphs when they first met the Alethi... yet they were also completely illiterate and have forgotten even the notion of written language. Venli allegedly re-invented one from scratch. So, where did their weapons come from? Diagramm is a huge organization with lots of members and resources, despite only existing for 5 years. The guy who recruited Szeth had a Soulcaster, Graves had Shards, all of T's guards who were with him in Vedenar were also members, there was a substantial cell in the warcamps, and, of course, all the "Silent Gatherers". Really odd that there wasn't a single leak.

Then why were the Heralds given Honorblades in the first place? They weren't supposed to ever return from Braize, after all. Not to mention that condemining them to fighting the Fused for all eternity while weaponless would be even crueler and more senseless than the rest of the Oathpact! As to the crisis of faith among the Shamans due Taln's Blade discovery - this would require them to know the truth about the defection of the other 9, and we have seen no indication of that so far. And why do you think that it is crackpot? IMHO, this current thread is significantly more so . Anyway, I have come to the idea independantly, due to stumbling across across a WoB that we have seen members of every Order in WoK and WoR, if we count their Heralds. Though now that I have re-read the books in question, it turns out that there was a Dustbringer in one of Dalinar's visions, so this may be moot as far as evidence for Chana appearing on-screen in them. However, Liss's whole demeanor, her obvious knowledge that something was about to go down that night and the general air of sly superiority still make me believe that she is a Herald. Her looking ethnically mixed and being perfect with accents, like most of the Heralds that we have seen so far, only cements my suspicions. Though if she doesn't have to be Chana, her description looks very much like the picture of Vedel in WoB. In any case, Liss lied to Jasnah about selling Szeth several weeks previously, IMHO, because it would have been an unbelievable coincidence that he was be still available and cheap enough for Klade to buy him on a whim. We also know that Nale and Kalak were somehow behind the assassination of Gavilar, though indirectly. I.e.: "I don't like this. What we've done was wrong. That creature carries my lord's own Blade. We shouldn't have let him keep it. He--" Blurted out by a nervous fellow who was almost certainly Kalak to Nale in the prologue to WoR. Prologue to OB supports this even more, because Parshendi took their coming into possession of Szeth just before Gavilar revealed his nefarious intentions as a sign to try an assassination. And, of course, a "voice speaking to the rythms" led them to Szeth _and_ led them to "press" Szeth into revealing his true capabilities. That was surely Nale's spren. I have forgotten this, but in WoR Parshendi knew about the existence of Honorblades, even though the rest of the world outside Shinovar didn't - so they knew that Szeth was more than just a shard-bearer when they ordered him to kill the king. Anyway, all of it only makes sense to me if Liss knew exactly what Szeth was, and that Nale knew that he was in Kholinar to be used in his scheme and convinced Liss to give up her slave for the cause. The fact that Nale didn't just obtain a death warrant on a notorious assassin and execute Liss to get at Szeth strongly suggests that she is a fellow Herald. IMHO, YMMV.

And yet, thousands of KRs during the past Desolations were unable to prevent huge death-tolls and collapse of human civilizations. I suspect that we haven't yet seen all that the Fused have to offer and, of course, extraordinary circumstances surrounding Dalinar's Acsencion made things drastically easier for the Radiants than they would have been normally. Particularly for Jasnah and possibly Shallan, where not only were they overcharged with stormlight, but the 3 worlds coming together made their surges exponentially more powerful than they would have been otherwise. Well, honestly, Amaram was a bit of a joke opponent. Both Yelig-Nar and a second shardblade were mostly hindrances rather than help. The first caused him intense, distracting agony during the fight and exploded his shardplate, which helped both Kaladin and Rock to put him down. The second shardblade was just absurd - I mean, dual-wielding is really, really hard, which is why it was almost never used in battle, and why the second weapon was always something short - a dagger or a hatchet. Amaram, a man with no shards of his own until a few months ago and an infistimally small chance of ever gaining any, given how difficult it is and that he was past his physical peak at 35, had neither reason nor opportunity to learn to fight well with 2 gigantic shardblades. I know that Amaram's original concept was that of a dual-wielder, but that's one darling that should have been well and truly smothered. Particularly since Nale is here to show us how it is _really_ done at some point in the future. As to the Fused - yes, Kaladin was glutted with stormlight and expended it recklessly. It is a huge advantage. Human surges are stronger, but they run out of juice much quicker, which would normally be a critical tactical consideration in battle. Because the Fused didn't know that he was dealing with a surge-binder with a shardblade. Pretty sure that they will have shardblades this time around. How many times were we told that thousands of Nahel spren died in the Recreance? Yet only about 100 shards, counting both blades and plate, IIRC, are in the hands of various human kingdoms. There are gigantic stashes of dead shards somewhere and it seems fairly likely that they will fall into the hands of Odium's forces. Incidentally, Feverstone Keep, where hundreds of Radiants abandoned their shards in Dalinar's vision, was in a territory now allied with the Fused. I doubt that he could have done so under normal circumstances. Thunderclasts killed Heralds in the past, after all. IMHO, a spren bond gives one a certain instinctual understanding of the surges, where with a Honorblade things have to be learned the hard way. That's why Kaladin had any chance against Szeth in WoR at all - even a crumbling, severely deranged Szeth. But the thing is - Kaladin and Szeth - and other Radiants, won't stop learning and improving either. But yea, Fused mentorship will help Moash, I am sure. He'd still feel a bit of an also-ran, IMHO. Ishar (if he is a traitor, which he IMHO is), Nale and ancient, powerful Fused - the best warriors who didn't arrive on Roshar yet, would be much more threatening opponents for Kaladin et al. It would be very difficult to make Kaladin, leave alone Szeth, look like an underdog when pitted against Moash. I think it fairly likely that the battle of champions is going to be Nale versus Szeth, rather than supremely predictable and, IMHO, very unexciting Kaladin versus Moash. Second this. I'd also like to see some sort of confrontation with Hoid, eventually.

Not to mention the very tight time-table. How much time elapsed between Taln's appearance and Bordin taking charge of him? Given the weeks needed to travel from Kholinar to the Shattered Plains? And how much more time passed between Szeth's "death" and loss of Jezrien's Honorblade and it being stolen from Bridge 4? How is it that the Shamans were so very prompt with one Honorblade, and so very lax with the other? This and this. History suggests that it is impossible to separate the Heralds from their Honorblades against their will and also demonstrates a notable failure to track the one that was "stolen" from Shin custody. Yes, we don't really know how the "Motion" part of the Transportation surge really works and if popping in is even feasible at all. But Illumination certainly would provide an alternative method for sneaking in. I also think that, like the use of stormlight, all these restrictions don't apply to the members of the Shamanate. I mean, Szeth had all these skills before his exile. I agree that it had to be an inside job... and in particular I suspect Liss, who is, IMHO Herald Chana and who seemed to be strangely absent from the picture when Aesudan went off the deep end. Liss was also suspected of having a normal shardblade, which she could have unbonded and substituted for Taln's. Though it is somewhat curious that Bordin didn't report anything concerning about the queen either, given that at least some of her indulgences and mis-management should have been already apparent when he left to reach the extent seen in Lhan interlude. Alternatively, the thief could be Kalak, who, while he posed as an "ambassador from the West" during Gavilar's fateful feast, looks like an Alethi and could pass without note among them. @Calderis: I don't think that all the surges have spiritual uses beyond the resonances that we are already aware of - i.e. "spiritual gravitation" is expressed in number and strength of the Windrunner squires and a bonus to their leadership stat. Bondsmiths and their power of spiritual Connection are supposed to be special, after all, and there is a hint that it comes at the cost lesser effectiveness of their surges in the physical realm. And while I do believe that the Shin have normal sharblades stashed, how on Roshar could anybody attempt to recover Taln's blade if it it just vanished? Shin wouldn't need to care about the hue and cry it's disappearance left behind - if they did, they wouldn't have unleashed Szeth with Jezrien's Blade at the world in the first place.

And that and resultant chips on their shoulders are about all their share. Moash was a drifter, who never achieved anything of note until Kaladin took charge of him. He even managed to botch signing up as a soldier. I mean, what was he, a native of Kholinar and a seasoned traveler who was well aware of various highprinces' behavior records re: commoners, doing signing up with Sadeas's army? And yea, he is a talented fighter, but he is a newb. He'll have a much harder time learning Windrunning with a Honorblade than a proper Radiant would, with the assisstance of their spren. Even if he manages to bond and control Yelig-nar, it will be hard to make him sufficiently threatening to Kaladin, leave alone Szeth, who is familiar with all surges and has Nightblood. And Szeth likely will train other Radiants. Yes, Moash has surrendered himself to Odium, but he is neither the first nor the last human to do so. Not by a long shot. I fail to see how this qualifies him for being a truly dangerous champion, leave alone a truly menacing shardholder. He only has a chance at prominence because Dalinar unexpectedly snubbed Odium and a number of other likely prospects were recently killed. And he is neither particularly intelligent, devious, nor cosmerically knowledgeable. So, yea, trading Rayse for him would feel very contrived and really deflate tension, IMHO. I don't think that if we truly are up for the Odium-shardholder switch, that it would be too late to introduce or re-introduce a new big bad in book 4. Now that I think about even Cosmere spoilers could be a pretty frightening option. I'd also say that Sanderson already had a true anti-Kaladin in Cosmere Spoilers and that this person was certainly very open to hatred.

No. Havar was one of Dalinar's officers and died during the betrayal at the Tower, while Bashin is the huntsmaster who organized the ill-fated chasmfiend hunt in WoK and is still with Alethi forces in Urithiru.

Sorry, but no. Moash isn't nearly threatening or knowledgeable enough - he is just a wannabe. Frankly, he would make a fairly poor Odium's champion, because he is too new at it - there is no way for Kaladin or Szeth to seem like an underdog in a fight with him. Him becoming Odium the Shard would be a huge downgrade from Rayse. And there are far more suitable people around - Ishar, Nale, Thaidakar (who, I think is: Cosmere spoiler: etc. Heck, Mraize has more menace and cosmere knowledge in his little finger than Moash in his whole being and for all we know the Ghostbloods may be hoping to take over a Shard. Re: Odium's armies - didn't all the western nations join him? Which is a bity fishy, since they are all areas where Cultivation is worshipped and may be part of her gambit, but still. Ex-parshmen will be trained, all the Fused will arrive from Braize, Nale and the Skybreakers joining him will be huge moral blow to the anti-Odium alliance and undermine everybody's fragile trust in the Radiants, not to mention the effect on various Herald-worshipping religions, trade and agriculture have been disrupted everywhere and famines should follow, Mr T., who controls the most powerful and fertile country is a traitor, etc., etc. Frankly, it is difficult to see how Our Heroes will manage to hold out for the one year time-skip until the next book. Thaylen City battle was only so easy because Odium thought that it would be a pure formality and made a performance of it.

If that had been the case, the Heralds would have lost their Honorblades long before their defection. During all the Desolations and battles that they have been through, there surely were moments when they dropped their Blades without dismissing them or somebody grabbed them, etc. It is true that the bond is shallow and very easy to transfer for normal people who picked up Honorblades after Aharietam, but IMHO there was something more when a Herald faithful to his vows was using his. In fact, I have wondered how the Fused were able to capture and torture the Heralds in Damnation... but not separate them from their Honorblades. How was it possible to keep the Heralds captive if they still had surges and could summon their Blades? I guess that we'll have to wait until their PoV books. I do agree with you that Szeth was a member of the shamanate and the custodian of Jezrien's Blade, which is seems to be a lifetime position. He thought to himself that he was an educated man in WoK, and he fluently speaks and writes in a number of languages without any supernatural help. It also never made a lick of sense that Truthless would be handed Honorblades when cast out or that a person could learn to use one with such excellence in a short amount of time. I also agree that Shin may have some normal Shardblades - as we know there have been Radiants of Shin extraction and they could have gone back to their people before breaking their oaths. Also, we have learned about something called "Shin invasions" in OB - Shardblades could have been acquired during those. But why would the shamans replace Taln's Honorblade with a shardblade, when they could have just taken it and disappeared? Indeed. Well, custodians of the Honorblades use it routinely for training according to Szeth in OB, so we don't know if this truly applies to the stone shamanate. This could be the case with other blasphemies, such as fabrials or shardblades, as well. Forbidden to the plebs, but secretly used by elites/priesthood.

I am sure that Sanderson planned to do so through another PoV while he still intended to kill Szeth. A new character, or maybe even Nale himself. My main problem with Szeth's survival are all the reprecussions - like, how it required Nale to have a Hoid-like ability to be in the right place at the right time to ressurect him, how it necessitated Eshonai's death instead to maintain at least some sense of danger to the PoV characters, how we now ended up with _3_ mass murderers among the founding 10 new Radiants (which is a bit over the top, if you ask me, even if redemption is great), how it currently feels very contrived that Szeth joining Dalinar didn't explode the alliance and/or that Dalinar is still somehow unaware of the full extent of the damning stuff that Szeth knows about Taravangian. Etc., etc. P.S. Oh, and I have forgotten the re-writing of the published ending of Kaladin - Szeth fight, which has been replaced with something really awkward and illogical. Of course, Nale being able to heal a shardblade death with a fabrial was also over the top. All in all change of Szeth's fate comes with a very high price tag, narrative-wise. YMMV.

True, but according to this: http://faq.brandonsanderson.com/node/467 it was originally supposed to be Szeth. I.e.: " Szeth originally died permanently in the end of Words of Radiance.". Sanderson's decision to bring him back to life caused a chain of consequences that strongly influenced certain aspects of OB, IMHO. Eshonai's death was likely one of them, as somebody who seemingly fell to their death needed to actually die; Nale's expanded powers (as he had to somehow foresee exactly when and where Szeth would fall in order to revive him), was probably another. Etc. Personally, I think that Sanderson should have gone with his original intention as Szeth's re-integration into the plot often felt awkward and contrived, despite his undeniable chemistry with Nightblood and Lift, but IMHO, YMMV.