Master_Moridin

You are saying that each bind point gives you a different power?  Or that putting multiple same-charge (same-spiritweb portion) spikes will not overlap?  

I'm saying that if you spike for an ability on someone, you can't simply spike for the same ability at a different spot on that same person, cause  you've already ripped out that part of the spiritweb.

Edit: I may have misread the conversation.  Rereading.

Double Edit:  I did misread.  I thought your question about two spikes in the same bindpoint was asking if you could steal someone's ability twice doing that, and so as follows I thought Yata's response was in the same context.

Well I don't know if you may put more Spikes in the same point at the same time, but in the end you may simply choose another Bindpoint for the same power and Spike there... you will get twice the power.

I'm not sure this is true.  A Hemalurgic spike is ripping off part of a person's spiritweb after all, not copying the ability onto the spike.

I thought breath was just part of the Nalthian spiritweb? (since non-nalthians don't have breath). I thought that was a soul thing, not a cognitive aspect.

 

Therefore the moment a baby develops sDNA is when it receives it's breath- which has nothing to do with how people "view" the fetus.

... Right? 

There's also the possibility that the part of the soul that the Breath is is the "raw investiture" and so potentially unrelated the Connections that make up the rest of someone's spiritweb.

In that sort of situation I could see a fetus having to receive Breath in some manner separate from the rest of its spiritweb.

Personally, I feel that whenever it gets its Breath, it's really early on cause otherwise pregnancies would probably be more problematic due to the sickly-ness not having a Breath means.

What I assumed was that the bullet ended up ricocheting against itself, since part of it is going a different speed from the other. If it was only partially inside the bubble, the front would be going much slower/faster than the other side, and it would push and pull against itself in odd ways. I don't know what that would do with light, but I assume it would be much more free to pass through than solid matter. I'm thinking of this on terms of relativity... probably.

Objects can only be in or out of a bubble.

Kurkistan

Time Bubbles:

If you are standing inside of a time bubble, and throw a spear out of the bubble, what happens to that spear as it traverses the border of the bubble? Are different parts of the spear ever in different "time zones," going fundamentally different speeds?

On that line of reasoning, what would happen to a train and its occupants if Marisi stood next to railroad tracks holding up a Cadmium bubble while that train sped by?

Brandon Sanderson

In general, a large object going through a time bubble is not going to notice. An object is either in or out, and it depends in part on how the object views itself. People inside the train would be inside of its influence, and wouldn't notice the bubble. The spear would go from one to the other, but would never be in both.

(source)

I'm pretty sure he seems to ignore Conservation of Investiture. Nightblood really is strange.

INTERVIEW: Dec 12th, 2015

Barnes & Noble Orem

So, is Nightblood reducing the amount of Investiture in the cosmere?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. At a very slow rate, but yes.

TAGS

Nightblood, investiture, cosmere,

There's another WoB that says the black smoke he releases is corrupted Breath

So the middle ground seems to be just, entropy-ing Investiture, rendering it unusable, instead of outright removing it from existence.

Anyway, Nightblood is named for the smoke he leaks, and he originally had a different name when he was created. ... The blackness that leaks out is actually corrupted and consumed Breaths, the ones that Nightblood leeches off anyone who draws him.

(source)

I just want to point out that we have confirmation that Hoid does have a spirit web, but a very strange one. That's about all we know.

Another thing, not all Shardblades completely destroy investiture, but rather they cut chunks out of a spirit web proportional to the spots they hit on the being's body. The only Shardblade that can actually completely destroy investiture is Nightblood.

Even then it doesn't completely destroy investiture, just turns it into a corrupted unusable form.

Here's the other WoB
 

Question
Why were all the shardblades swords when they can take on any weapon form they want? Would they all revert to swords when they die?

Brandon Sanderson
When they die they'd revert to the basic form which was a sword since they were patterned after honorblades.
(source)

Beginning to feel like he just forgot he already gave an answer.  Or maybe there's more to it than we thought.

Spren imitated Honorblades. That's why, when they were killed, they remained in Blade form. Syl, however, is still alive, so she can become other weapons.

This...isn't certain.  Brandon's actually RAFO'd a question about this just recently.

I would expect it's more just altering their connection to gravity in some way, so it would probably match up with any planet it's used on. Hard to say without examples of course.

jW

Well after doing some digging on Roshar a half lashing upwards leaves you suspended in mid-air, so while on Roshar at the least it's in magnitudes of Roshar's gravity

Was primarily just trying to find something we currently know of in Awakening to explain it without assuming miss-perception of the narrator.  Don't really feel strongly about it.

I wouldn't have put much stock in this theory without Wayne's comment there at the end. The fact that a character not only notices the change in color, but also makes the reader aware of this change is good evidence. It could be a red - brown? - herring, but considering that most of us wouldn't have noticed the change without Wayne, a herring is probably unnecessary. 

 

But while I like the theory, I do have to wonder if Awakening / Breath storage is what is going on here. When Awakeners fuel their magic, they drain color fully - down to grey; they don't lighten the color as much as they take it away. Moreover, when an Awakener stores their Breath in an object, the object's color becomes more vibrant, it doesn't actually change. And a change from dark brown to tan is quite a significant change. 

Could it be possible that being a kandra is letting VenDell do some sort of very efficient Awakening, sort of like how the Tenth Heightening causes you to drain something to white?

Would be interesting, if VenDell had some sort of efficient Awakening that didn't really reach Tenth Heightening levels, but left drained colors lighter.

in the book, when they talk about basic lashings, they tend to be in multiples of Scadrian Gravity (a bit lower than earth gravity if memory serves).  don't have my book to hand rigth now, but to quote the coppermind "a half Lashing upward, for example, would make the Surgebinder effectively weightless, while a quarter Lashing would halve the person's weight." the actual physics are a bit weird, but I read it as a normal basic lashing essentially alters the dirrection of gravity for the target, zeroing out the planet's gravity and pointing it toward the direction of choice instead.  the effect is definitely cumulative (we see both Kaladin and Szeth do it at different points) so a person lashed twice at normal strength would be pulled toward the target point with 2x the strength as normal gravity.

I thought Lashings were based on Rosharan gravity (0.7g) given that it's a Rosharan ability?

Is Investiture and the Powers of Creation the same thing?  If so, have they always been the same thing?

Thank you for clearing this up for me. Do you know whether they appear in any other books besides those you already mentioned? Also the line i was talking about is not from Secret history (I though so too before i finish the novella). I remember the line you quoted here and it's not the same. I'm not sure where it was from I remember someone saying here that it was the last line of a book? Novella? I don't know. 

Are you perhaps referring to this?

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/52968-sh-spoilers-new-vessel-for-elantris-shards/#entry411722

In which case the context actually is a conversation about the quote Pagerunner quoted.

Probably not infinite, then. Infinity would screw with a ton of stuff regardless.

 

Regardless, the original question was about why Shards aren't concerned about losing their Investiture to the magicks performed by Invested people. The answer is, we don't know, but we speculate that the Investiture is just automatically returned to the Shard (or harvested by it).

We have confirmation that this is the case for at least two of the systems.  On Nalthis if someone dies their Breath just returns to the system, and in Allomancy the Investiture that an Allomancer uses returns to Preservation.

The original poster update the original theory in a post above yours, Master_Morin. It recognizes that shards are investiture.

...That's the post I quote part of in my post, so I'm aware it's there.

The premise of the theory is still that the Powers of Creation and Investiture are different things, when according to the quote if Rosharans knew what Adonalsium was, they would probably also classify it under spren (I assume the only reason there's a probably is because of Adonalsium's presumed immense power).

There's also the fact the quote gives a definition for spren as living Investiture, which gives a partial answer for the piece I quoted.  Divine Breaths are Splinters, and so are spren.  So the difference is that Divine Breaths are "alive" (There's another WoB that directly defines Splinters as "pieces of the power of Adonalsium that have become self-aware", but due to the relevance of the defining of spren, which are Splinters, I figured the quote I posted offered a better explanation within the current context.)

That quote just tells us what Roshar thinks, not that what they think is accurate. If anything, it's implied that it's not.

That's not the implication of the phrasing though.

Brandon says that if they did in fact know what Honor was, they would call Honor a spren, because by their definition a spren is living Investiture.  Ergo, the implication is that Honor is made of Investiture.

I still have a problem with conflating the Powers of Creation and Investiture. How do we distinguish between Divine Breath (a Splinter) and mere Breath (which is not) if both are made from Endowment’s Spiritual Realm Investiture? IIRC 2,000 Breaths approximately equals the power level of a Divine Breath, but they are still different things. If their composition is identical, and both come from Endowment’s Investiture, how is a Splinter any different from any other form of Investiture?

 

Nonetheless, in the spirit of reconciliation, I offer this compromise. Regards all!

Well, some recent WoB should shine some (potential) light on this

Talking about the Stormfather, are the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren, Cusicesh, are they on the same level?

A: The Nightwatcher, yes. Um...uh...there are...I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that’s what Cusicesh is.

Q: So the Nightwatcher is a spren?

A: They call the Nightwatcher a spren. Everyone in the books thinks the Nightwatcher is a spren. That’s what they would call...that’s what they would call, if they knew what Honor was, they would call Honor a spren. A spren is Investiture that is alive. So they would call Nightblood a spren. That’s the word for what all of these things are. They would probably call Adonalsium a spren. [Laughter] If...Right...So.

Q: What would Hoid call one of those? What would Hoid call the Nightwatcher?

A: Um…[long pause]

Q: If Hoid were to use a non-proper noun?

A: Unpleasant names. [general laughter]

Relevant part bolded

Pretty sure Dragonsteel is much earlier than Elantris. So Phase 0?

Aren't they just listing a hypothetical release schedule?

I do think it is important to point out that that WoB is paraphrased, so we really can't use that as proof of Brandon using Intent unprompted.

Oh crap it was.  I didn't see that bit.  My apologies.

*snip*

 

Khriss knows this and fears the repercussions of his actions, which is why she formed the 17th Shard and recruited Baon, Galladon and Demoux, provided them with knowledge of Worldhopping and sent them after Hoid.

 

Proof Khriss is 17th Shard: Strong suggestions that Khriss is the author of Ars Arcanum here and the below quote indicates that the author is either Hoid or a member of 17th shard and we know Hoid isn't the author:

 

*snip*

We know that Khriss is not 17th Shard by WoB from this most recent JordanCon

[55:18]

Q: In Secret History, is Khriss working with the 17th Shard at that time?

A: Khriss works with anybody who is interested in the information that she has. She is a...no, not a freelancer, really, she is a...She’d get along with Edward Snowden, right? She is for the good of the Cosmere in her opinion, she is providing this information. She thinks it’ll be useful for everyone. So if the 17th Shard comes to her and says “We want to know this” and she knows it, she will tell them. If Hoid comes to her and says “I want to know this”, she would tell him. So Khriss will work with anyone who she thinks their motives are...are for the good of the Cosmere in general.

Q: Not strictly a mercenary…?

A: No, not a mercenary, she’s kind of a freedom of information type person.

(source)

Can we get a canonised term for the quality embodying each Shard represents?

Don't we already have one? Brandon himself uses Intent, even when unprompted

BRANDON SANDERSON (paraphrased)

Shards and Shard intents: Holding a Shard is a contest of willpower against the Shard that, over time, is very hard to resist.

Shards affect you over time, but your mind will not leave a permanent effect on the Shard. A holder's personality, however, does get to filter the Shard's intent, so to speak. However, if that holder no longer held that Shard, the Shard will not continue to be filtered by that person.

(source)

All right, double-posting but for a good reason:  I was able to record nearly two hours of the book signing and gleaned some good Cosmere tidbits.  I've transcribed as closely worded as possible the questions and answers below.  

 

I'll tell you, the most frustrating thing about listening to this are all the times Brandon asks "Do you have any questions for me?" and the person responds "Hmmm... nope!"  I just want to hand out little cards with questions to all these people

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_kNPxqRnJfDUjhkbEhJOTVRUWs

 

*snip*

 

1:12:20

Q:  Could a Rosharan be Hemalurgically spiked with a gem or fabrial?

A:  (answer not spoken but girl’s response is a sound of exasperation and the artist next to Brandon laughs almost mockingly, so I sense that he wrote RAFO in her book, or something equally unimportant.  Maybe somebody on the 17^th Shard knows exactly what he wrote!)

*snip*

He almost certainly wrote RAFO.  Someone's asked about gemstone spikes before and got a RAFO.

You've said that when someone Snaps and becomes an Allomancer, something fills the cracks in their soul.  Is this something a Connection to Preservation, or raw Investiture?

Well, we have a post here with a quote saying that Preservation and Ruin specifically created Scadrial, and I remember seeing the source the quote comes from, but I can't find it

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53493-mysterious-name-drop-sh-spoilers/#entry418448

SH spoilers in the thread