Master_Moridin

I've seen this said a few times in forums, but can't find any evidence of this in the books. What's the source for it?

It's from an interview

 

DALENTHAS (15 OCTOBER 2008)

Did the Lord Ruler have any Hemalurgic spikes in him? It would seem he'd need to for Ruin to influence him, but it wasn't mentioned. Or did his bracers work as spikes?

BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)

His arm bracers, which pierced his skin, were his spikes.

(source)

Edit:  Apparently this quote was already added to the OP but oh well here it is anyways.

Oh okay.  I'm sorry if there has been any trouble because of this.  Good to have an answer though.

I think I can fix it back around pretty quick like so it shouldn't be a problem.  Should the large list of metals be removed to match how the Allomancy page just links to the individual metal pages?

Edit:  Although I am finding I don't remember how tables work...

Edit 2:  And the post this was in response to disappeared so...

Sorry about the un-findability, I've been waiting on that interview getting in the database before updating this thread.

 

By interstellar medium I just mean all the stuff that's in "empty space". There's not much of it, but I'm sure a sphere of any respectable size will intersect at least some of it.

 

Brandon's clarification is key here for resolving where exactly the bubble looks for its frame of reference, I think:

 

So it's very specifically the things the surface of the bubble is "cutting into": not the things that are in/around the bubble. So if you have your ship that's sitting at the center of a kilometer-radius bubble, the bubble will only be "cutting through" space; more specifically a bunch of hydrogen and whatnot in space.

 

EDIT: Ah, I misread you. You were talking about what the interstellar medium would perceive as "still", and suggesting it could adopt the view of the ship.

 

An interesting concern, and I hadn't focused/thought as much about the implications of Brandon saying "cognitive things" there instead of just "things." So if an object is in the middle of the void with not even enough thought going on for its location to have a presence in Shadesmar, what does that mean for what that object can tell a time bubble about relative motion?

 

Hmm...

 

Okay, thinking about it we may still be cool. So three broad options here:

1. The interstellar medium won't register to the bubble at all. It's left not "cutting through" anything, so far as the bubble is concerned. That's... going to be weird. Aside from the universe exploding at the edge case, I guess the simplest behavior here would be for the bubble to "default" to the frame of reference of its caster. So FTL fails in that case.
2. The interstellar medium (and everything, really) intrinsically contains at the very least enough of a Cognitive presence to maintain that "I am still" is true. Not too wild an idea, I think, and meshes nicely with the realities of physics in that everything essentially behaves that way.
3. The interstellar medium borrows its perception of stillness from the Cognitive beings who are "observing" it, i.e. those on the ship. In this case there are two subcategories:

   i) The medium borrows directly from the ship's crew: it goes "oh I'll just copy them" and begins to see the ship's movement as "still". This doesn't make sense, I don't think. No one on the ship thinks the medium is moving (here I say "moving" to mean "moving in the sense that the ship is moving"), the medium isn't moving, the medium doesn't have any reason to think it's moving.

   ii) The medium acquires a concept of itself as either "still" because the crew thinks of it that way or "moving very very fast in the opposite direction of the ship" because the crew sees it that way. Either of these options is perfectly fine for getting the bubble to have a frame of reference that accelerates the ship's movement through space.

I lean towards 2, myself.

When I was referring to "seeing the ship as still" I was generally referring to Relativity specifically, in that the frame of reference for a thing is determined by its movement in comparison to another's movement, and whether it feels a force acting on it.  In deep space there might not be enough interaction going on for the medium to even have a functional frame of reference, and if it did, it'd be in relation to whatever the greatest force acting on it is, as feeling a force is the only way to know you're moving.

Relativity is weird and I'm beginning to be certain that is these kinds of cases Brandon's just gonna throw it out the window, in which case woo we have FTL (theoretically).  Otherwise I'm not sure how one'd get around this.

Okay nvm I seem to have thought myself back into the actual answer (trying to remember relativity after a while is hard).  Since the only way for an object to know if it's moving or not is if it's experiencing acceleration I guess then the interstellar medium (so long as it's not anywhere it can experience a significant force acting on it) would think of itself as still and anything else that had a different velocity as moving.  So yeah, in that case your number 2 would hold.

Weird hacky physics never sits right with me.

Also now that I think about it the WoBs on Cognitive Realm worldhopping insinuates that whatever there is in empty space considers itself a roughly singular cohesive object (as you can walk across it) so that in a simpler way might explain how a bubble could potentially intersect and get a sense of still from it.

Long story short I am in agreement until we're inevitably proven wrong.

Well crap.  That interview hadn't come up for me in the database so I thought I'd hit upon something...

On a different note awesome we finally know how anchoring's done.  I'd guess objects with a bigger cognitive aspect would probably get prioritized for frame of reference decision.  The whole, bubble gets jarred when it intersects something new, is really neat.

All you have to do is have the Cadmium bubble that's keeping everyone going-slow such that's its cutting through the ship, while have the Bendalloy bubble that's making everything go fast through space not intersect the ship at all. The Bendalloy bubble can then gets its frame of reference from the interstellar medium and congratulations you've realized FTL.-Kurkistan

When you say interstellar medium here, are you referring to the cold thin plasma that fills space?  Cause in deep space I'm not quite sure that'd work well as the medium would be looking for things around it for its frame of reference, which would be the ship, and then you get into stupid edge case where if no force is acting on the medium then it could either choose to view the ship as still or itself.  (Frame of reference is weird and it gives me headaches)  There might/probably be some weird stuff going on the Cosmere to let something like that work, but I still think we're missing something other than mechallomancy.

Course I might have my relativity completely wrong.  Been a while since I lasted studied it.

Something I've been wondering is what happens when steelpushes or ironpulls are involved with Bendalloy bubbles.

For example, say someone's Pushing a coin and a bubble is suddenly put up with the coin still inside.  Does the coin continue to move at the same speed as before, considered a part of the coin-push-pusher system, or does it speed up suddenly?

In a similar vein, let's say you have a Slider that is being Pushed on, but stationary.  If they put up a bubble that contains the Coinshot, who is also stationary, what happens if:

1. The Slider becomes unstationary and starts moving,
2. The Coinshot becomes unstationary and starts moving,
3. Or both become unstationary and start moving?

I have a suspicion that being able to hold a Bendalloy bubble in place with Pushes and Pulls might be part of the key to FTL, at least based on the model in OP.  Maybe put up a bubble near the front of the ship (but including it), hold it in place with pushes in pulls, and then set the ship to move so that the bubble winds up behind the ship with the ship still half-inside, so that the ship keeps moving at the compressed speed?  Or if that complication is unnecessary and the ship simply being in the bubble but no considered part of the anchor is all that matters to get the relatively increased speed, simply suspend the anchor in the "middle" of the ship?

Either way the way directed Allomancy reacts in general to a target entering a bubble is something that's given me thought.  (Maybe I should throw something about that onto the question list at some point...)

(I'm not really sure if this is how this is supposed to be done (been gone for...a few years, also lack of rules thread) so I apologize profusely if so)

The page currently is organized into Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual (also God) according to Brandon's response to this question (link) as discussed in the Feruchemy page's talk page.  Back in 2013 I had grouped the  metals into Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual, and Hybrid as given in the Table of Feruchemical Metals poster which was released in 2012.

My question is, for sake of future reference and understanding, was there something between when I edited the page and when it was edited into its current form about the table being incorrect (the interview database wouldn't return any results at all for me when I searched for Feruchemy so I couldn't check there), or is there a system of precedence I am currently not, and would like to be, informed of in regards to products vs WoB?

(Once again intensely sorry if this is not where this type of question/inquiry is supposed to go.)

Got myself a chunk of questions:

Are Ideals and Connections the building blocks of spiritual aspects, or is there something else?

Are Ideals in the Spiritual Realm like elementary particles in that there is the category "Ideal of Fire" but multiple perfect instances of it (the same way there are multiple electrons but they're all identical), or is there only one singular Ideal?

Are the qualia (i.e. color, sound/tone, etc) that make up sensory experience Spiritual in nature?

(Related to above)  Are the sensory experiences of humans (or similar sentient beings) a combination of un/subconsciously perceiving the spiritual aspect of an object in combination with sense-based information input (detecting light with eyes, etc)?

Could one describe an object's spiritual aspect as "the nature of the thing" and its physical aspect "the presentation/manifestation of the thing"

According to WoB you can steal a Shardblade using Hemalurgy (or at least that it's theoretically possible), which works by ripping off bits of spiritweb, so it at the very least heavily insinuates the bond is spiritual in nature.

 

 

KURKISTAN

Can Hemalurgy be used to steal Shardblades directly, transferring ownership from the victim to the spike's recipient without a need for the recipient to physically take the Shardblade first?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A novel use of Hemalurgy which is not outside the sphere of its powers.

(source)

On the bonds having distance limits it could just be different types of spiritual connections react differently based on distance.

What I currently hypothesize at least.

I really don't have much else to say on the subject (mainly cause I can't think of much else at the moment).

Well, I'm not so sure on that. We'd have to see what happens when color is drained from a gemstone via Awakening - I don't think there's going to be Physical differences? Weird Spiritual funky stuff happens. Only, what happens in other Realms kinda-sorta gets reflected in the others. Maybe there is a Physical difference when you drain the color of something...

The whole color thing is weird on a couple levels, especially since manipulating imagery counts as a fundamental force?  I've been operating on the theory that color and other qualia are Spiritual things and that human perception is part sensory information intake and perceiving the Spiritual aspects and connections of a thing on a un/subconscious level, and that overlap is what Brandon means when he says the Cognitive is about perceptions of ideals.

Long story short maybe removing the 'color' from a thing is just removing the Spiritual aspect that allows/causes people to perceive it as that particular color qualia, and so wouldn't affect it physically??

See in most cases squires are on the path to be a knight not just testing to see if they can. Jasnah's description of the Knights Radient flood of new members  sounded like she was talking about large amounts of new bonds by the spren not just random people showing up saying hey I want to join. And i reread the part today where syl says that no honor spren had bonded but her because even she was disobeying the storm father. So it is very likely that with his consent Honor spren started bonding again.

 

A more important point is that Kaladin is half a continent away when Lopen breaths in storm light. I have a hard time believing that Kaladin can grant those kinds of powers from that far subconsciously. If he was with Kaladin the ya I could see that. 

I can't find anything that directly confirms or references it, but it seems to be general consensus that the Nahel bond is spiritual in nature due to connections being a thing of the Spiritual Realm, and according to WoB location doesn't really have much meaning in the Spiritual.

 

TREVORADE (REDDIT)

It has been explained that all things exists between three realms: Physical, Spiritual, and Cognitive.

I have surmised that different things "exist more" in a certain realm than another though all things have some presence in the three. Humans appear to "exist more" in the Physical realm. Spren appear to "exist more" in the Cognitive realm (Shadesmar in SA). Investiture appears to have various forms in the Physical Realm (e.g., alomantic metals, mist, stormlight).

Question 1: Does investiture have a consistent form (regardless of magic system and its Physical form) in one of the other realms?

Question 2: Vasher has shown us that he can substitue his need for Breath with another investiture (presumably Stormlight). To what extent is investiture interchangeable between magic systems?

Question 3: Is investiture finite? Hemalurgy and a Return's need to consume breath seems to show us that it can be destroyed. If it is finite, is the Cosmere's magic source doomed to the law of entropy?

BRANDON SANDERSON (REDDIT)

1. It's consistent in the Spiritual Realm. Location isn't particularly important there.

2. Very interchangeable, but not always simple to apply.

3. Investiture can not be created or destroyed. It follows it's own version of the laws of Thermodynamics.

(Relevant part bolded for convenience)

(source)

So at the least Kaladin being far away most likely wouldn't have any impact on his ability to grant Stormlight usage to his squires.

Transportation, hands down.  Screw traffic.

Well, you have multiple types of stone, and depending on where you grow up your mental image of stone would differ based on what stones you've had most experience with. However, unless you specify that type while soulcasting things to stone the only result would be the default, spiritually ideal "stone" substance.

So their might be an ideal state of beauty, just as there is an ideal state of "health" for healing magics that aren't Aon based (storming complicated, that thing), but it can be cognitively distorted when manifested with investiture. I guess.

That does seem to fit a bit more in line with what we've heard, as we have this WoB (credit to Kurkistan for the finding and formatting of the quote in their Healing theory):

Source

 

 

Nepene:

1) You've mentioned several philosophical concepts used in the writing of your books, like Jung's collective unconsciousness, Plato's cave. Could you expand a bit on your use of those in your books, and whether you think it is necessary to use philosophy to make a good fantasy world?

Brandon:

1) I don't think it's necessary at all. The writer's own fascinations--whatever they are--can add to the writing experience. But yes, some philosophical ideas worked into my fiction. Plato's theory of the forms has always fascinated, and so the idea of a physical/cognitive/spiritual realm is certainly a product of this. Human perception of ideals has a lot to do with the cognitive realm, and a true ideal has a lot to do with the spiritual realm.

As for more examples, they're spread through my fiction. Spinoza is in there a lot, and Jung has a lot to do with the idea of spiritual connectivity (and how the Parshendi can all sing the same songs.)

So yeah, it seems like there wouldn't be two different Ideals for beauty, but any attempt to alter beauty with Investiture would be messed with by a person or society's perceptions of beauty.  Kinda makes for a neat tie down to keep Investiture based on similar principles no matter the system.

...I seem to have basically just walked my head around in a circle to wind up back where your post was at.

This whole thing seems like a crazy detour from the actual topic, so to bring it back around, Braize as the place where Heralds are tortured and Desolations happening as a result of a Herald giving up seems to make a lot of sense.  Puts a lot of weight on their shoulders to not only save people from the Desolations, but also to hold out for as long as possible to keep new ones from happening.  A lot of honor at stake in such a situation.

Okay, that's actually really cool. I wonder what that means for Ideals. If two cultures have different ideas of beauty, what happens to the Ideal? Are there two Ideals? That could open up a lot of interesting things with magic that involves different aesthetics.

Is it confirmed Beauty is a spiritual thing?  Since the Cognitive is about perception and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" beauty is an entirely cognitive thing with no associated ideal?  (Sadly am not fully up to snuff on everything Realmatic)

On a more on topic note, maybe it means that the spiritual cares solely about 'spiritual' relationships, and less physical ones?  How two things are spatially oriented in relationship to each other is of no importance, but the nature and strength of their relationship and does? (Like a rock that's been next to other rocks for a long time then moved somewhere else still has that relationship despite the change in spiritual relationship.)  And since the Cognitive is about the perception of things, then the perceived relationship between things on the Physical would impact that?

First line from one of my projects: "All he could do was watch as Kevek ran his sword through her."

1. What is the relationship between blood and the Spiritual Realm? (Since Hemalurgy needs blood to graft the sDNA in a spike into someone else's sDNA)

2. Why does Preservation fueling Allomancy not weaken Preservation compared to Ruin?

3. Why aren't Seons affected by the lack of a chasm line in their Aon?

This is what Brandon has said about Allomantic pulses.

QARLIN

Why did Ruin give off Allomantic Pulses? Because Preservation did and they're two sides of the same coin? Allomancy is of Preservation, so I figured that's why he did...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Manifestation of the awesome power he held, mixed with Vin's increased ability to sense these things. Allomantic pulses are like a ripple of sound in the fabric of creation itself—the power of creation being used, creating a drum beat to those attuned to it. Ruin created a similar beat when his consciousness was near.

Szeth can't be a Voidbringer, cause he at one point makes reference to how he had heard Voidbringers were supposed to be able to hold in stormlight perfectly.

Happy birthday Windy!

I shall participate! Just have to get someone to bring my books from home.

I've been working on developing a magic system for a story, and while a bunch of people in the chat have been very helpful, things seem to have come to a crawl. As such, I thought I might post here to see if anyone else might have some ideas they would like to share.

The system is based around the Wu Xing, a system for arranging the elements by the ancient Chinese. These elements are Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water. Within the world of the book, the people were granted three gifts, the Gift of Body, Gift of Thought, and Gift of Feeling. When someone has magic, they are attuned to an element and are blessed with the appropriate abilities. We had been looking at this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_xing and referring to the section on traditional medicine for ideas. This is what has already been determined:

• Wood
  
  • Body-Speed
    
  • Thought-
    
  • Feeling-Adrenaline Surge
    

  [*]Fire

  • Body-
    
  • Thought-Illusions
    
  • Feeling-
    

  [*]Earth

  • Body-Strength
    
  • Thought-Spatial sense
    
  • Feeling-Earthbinding(maybe)
    

  [*]Metal

  • Body-Regeneration
    
  • Thought-Intuition/danger sense
    
  • Feeling-Communicating with dead
    

  [*]Water

  • Body-Resistance/Endurance
    
  • Thought-Thought/Urge insertion(maybe, other ideas included teleportation, astral projection, telekinesis, a 'look at me' effect)
    
  • Feeling-Avoidance(no one notices them, to near invisibility levels)
    

Edit: All of this is obsolete and invalid. Could a mod please delete or lock this?

Hello. I'm Master_Moridin. Have no idea what else to write in this, so I'll leave it at that.