Song

It is heart-breaking to think of how proud Evi would be of Dalinar now. I think they loved each other, but there relationship was messed up. Both were miserable because they both felt the other wished them to be different. Evi hated that Dalinar killed and was so affected by the thrill, and Dalinar kept wanting Evi to fit in with his culture. So they both spend the marriage feeling like a failure, wishing they could please their partner but assuming they were never succeding. Evi tried so hard. Dalinar would have remembered the fact that he had courted her for three years, but not the details. It is not a surprise that he assumed he courted out of love.

Fun question! I think book 4 will be setting up for the big battle of Fuses/Odiums army verses Radients/Dalinar's army in book 5 As book 4 is Venli book I suspect there will be lots of Venli working out her surges and secretly raising up a following of non-Odium listeners who will join the Radiants for book 5. The focus for Dalinar and his team will be training and finding new squires and Radiants. Something I am dying to see is some training exercises like the Skybreakers in OB, but with Radiant against Radiant to prepare to fight the Fused. So we will see Kaladin fighting Lift, Szeth fighting Jasnah etc. How cool would that be! I think that we will finally see a Stonewarden Radiant. And I hate to say It, but I think Moash will kill Taln, causing the Stoneward Radiant to reach the next ideal (I will stand while others fall). I think Shallan and Dalinar will have less chapters and Kaladin more. More questions and mysteries will be raised about Renarin, but book 5 will be where he becomes the main focus.

It is interesting that lies drew Pattern to Shallan, yet truths are what she needs to move forward. There is also lots of speculation that the Windrunner 4th ideal will be something very different than the rest, as Kaladin needs to let go of something (the past? the need to save everyone). It isn't really healthy or ideal for Jasnah to coldly act on intellect alone, and Ivory learnt something of that when Jasnah saved Renarin. So I suspect the forth oath will be something to do with the heart and the mind working together.

Navani is great. Her writing convinces the Aziz to join the coalition, she holds it together when her husband completely falls apart. She is the brain behind almost every fabrial we see. She is incredibly passionate, constantly pushing back against societies norms for a royal widow. But...I would prefer another Bondsmith, a new character. Partly because that Bondsmith would be tied to Urithiru permernantly and I think that is a waste of Navani.

I love this! Will be interesting to see the relationships develope. I doubt Kal will be the Father figure for either, but his protectiveness will come into play. Particularly given how traumatised Gavinor will be after all his experiences. And they will no doubt be significant in the back half of the series. I think Kalldin's family will move to Urithiru, but the whole of remaining Heathstone will come too. Headstone is Lirin's Bridge 4, there is no way he could leave them.

Kaladin taking charge of Sadeas' army, as either High Prince or just their commander would be a great story line For book 4. There was a brief reference to how Sadeas kept his army structured through competition, and that they were falling apart without him. Then at the end of the battle some fled with the army but some were dazed and defeated. I love the idea of this group, who had once despised Kaladin and his bridge crew, train under him and learn to follow him.

The way she spoke about it, it was clearly a gamble, she was aware that she might be making a tool for Odium.

Thanks Shallan

Yes. It is not so much that Renarin made Dalinar resist Odium, the Dalinar part of the theory is more to show that both Renarin and Odium seem to see what Odium believes will happen, not what does happen. Though I would say that Renarin's action in showing love to his Father at his lowest point was (along with Way of the King) one of the factors that took Dalinar to the Nightwatcher/cultivation anyway, so I do think Renarin is involved in Dalinar's resistance.

Helpful summary. I am no good at picking Heralds. When did we meet Vendal?

Her name is Ash. So she has that in common with the Dustbringer spren!

I am disappointed that Ialai seems to have left the scene. She had the makings of a really great antagonist. Clever, running a spy network, and with a chip on her shoulder. Also unlike Mr T and Amaran she has no interest in saving the world, just benefiting herself and now revenge. Plus a female a antagonist would balance things out (though hopefully Malata will play a bigger role soon).

This is for all you Jaspen shippers out there!!! Jasnah pressed her fingers into her temples and stared at the pages before her. Mystica sat along with the translated words from the Crystals. Patterns were beginning to emerge about the unmade. Perhaps she would get Renarin's help with this stage. His ability to understand such things was strange, but helpful. And she was feeling lost. The curtains at her window began to sway. Jasnah summoned ivory in one hand and picked up a throwing knife in the other. The curtains opened to revel one of the Bridgemen. Jasnah groaned and took a guess "Teft?" The man shook his head. "No, he is the ugly one. I am Lopen," Jasnah did not drop either weapon. "Why are you here uninvited? I have a door." "More romantic this way." He stepped off the windowsill and onto Jasnah's rug. Jasnah pointed ivory at Lopen with a glare. Lopen grinned. "Allow me to explain. As a Radiant I have my pick of women. But who should I choose? You were an obvious candidate. Smart, and Radiant in both senses (wink). Plus a queen, appropriate as soon all Herdazia will say "Lopen, you can slick to walls and fly. You should be King." Jasnah sighed. She was used to such advances. Though normally not quiet so confident in their delivery. "Not interested. Get out." Lopen shook his head. "I did hear rumours that you had little interest in Men. But I am no man. I am a God." He flipped up to stand on the roof. It would have looked rather impressive if he landed the flip. Instead he crashed to his knees. All the spheres in his pockets escaped and rained down onto Jasnah's floor. Jasnah dismissed her ivory-blade and sighed. "You are not a God. You are simply a man chosen by an honour spren in a time of need. A rather silly honour spren I suspect. " A small blue figure appared before Jasnah for only a second. Did he really just... "Naco! Not at my future wife!" Lopen returned to the floor, less awkwardly this time and began to pick up his spheres. Jasnah stared at the ridiculous little man. And she began to laugh. It was loud and awkward and contained a few embarrassing snorts. Her eyes filled with tears. She never laughed, not like that, laughing till her stomach hurt. Oh but by Ash's eyes it felt good to do it. Lopen raised an eye-brow. "Um, maybe we could start with a causal betrothal. See how it goes." Jasnah grinned. "This was a pleasant diversion. I will let you go. But if you come uninvited again I will soulcaste you into the most fragile crystal I can and throw you off the top of this tower. Understand?. "Of course my dear. I will await your invitation." And he opened and walked through the door past two very confused members of the Cobalt guard.

Independent of this scene, in Taravangian's genius day at Urithiru he mentions that the Diagram hadn't seen the effect of Renarin, that he was "a completely wild element".

So we know that Renarin seems to have a special place in the Diagram, and Odium is unable to see his part in it. I can see two possible reasons for this, that might be inter-related. 1. His ability to see the future as Odium sees it changes the future. We know that Renarin seems to have his future seeing ability through Glys' corruption. Presumably (given that both Renarin and Odium incorrectly see Dalinar fall) the future he sees is the same future that Odium has predicted. But this knowledge changes things. For example, Jasnah is set to kill Renarin when he turns around and nods, knowing what she will do and accepting it. That act prompts her to stop. By knowing a future he ended up preventing it. It will be interesting to see if he will start using this information consciously, working against Odium by using his own assumptions about the future against him. 2. He is Like an anti-Odium In the scene "A small bottle" Dalinar reflects that he can't understand why his sons don't hate him. This is particularly striking for Renarin given that we have seen ample evidence of Dalinar' lack of love towards his youngest up to this point. Yet he doesn't hate him, instead he shows extrodinary love and empathy. It may be that Renarin is so different from Odium that he either slips under the radar or Odium simply can't predict his actions because they are so alien to his nature. Curious to hear other theories.

Thanks for your answer, that is helpful! Spren seem to grow and change through their relationship with their host. Glys seems very genuine and good, but could that be Renarin's influence? Sja-anat seems to be changing, but as she is described as the most dangerous unmade I'd be hesitant to trust her outright.

This is interesting! I might have missed something, but where do Thunderclasts come from? Do they sleep in the ground and come back awake through Odium. Are they created at the moment of need from existing stone? Do they live in the ground under Thaylene city and Kholinar all the time and just wake up at the right time?

I have a theory Renarin is bright and scholarly and caring and honest. We don't know that much about Truthwatcher, but I suspect those characteristics would be attractive to a Truthwatcher spren- given what we know of the order. But he is also incredibly insecure, and doesn't fit in to his culture in a number of ways. I can imagine a mostly mindless spren who knows there is something wrong with them but doesn't know why would be drawn to that. I agree. None of his numerous strength would be valued by Odium, so he would be easily underestimated. I have always got a real David (verses Goliath) vibe from Renarin, particularly with his willingness to throw himself in harm' way for others.

In WoK there is a scene in Bavlands where the women in the bar had completely naked safe arms. Scandalous!

I suspect light/dark will matter less and less to everyone as the books go on, but it won't be the big focus, because the more important relationship being challenged is listener/human.

I don't have the book with me to confirm, but I believe Sadeas comments in the first Rift battle "I don't believe a landslide could kill you", when 20 years later it almost does.

One of my favourite bits of this book was the emphasis on Bridge 4. Even though Kalladin only got cameos in these scenes, we get to see really interesting sides to him. The B4 folks look up to him but don't see him as perfect. The "they saved me as much as I saved them" concept was really refreshing. So even though we (I suspect dilberately) didn't have the sweep in and save the day Kal, we saw a richer side of him in this book.

I think that the "seeing the best of people" (through Shallan's art and Renarin's brief image to Adolin) is part of the Illumination surge. This is why I think Renarin's future telling is an added extra and not just the void illumination. Sort of off topic though.

Mr T is the oposite of what the Knights stand for: Life before Death Mr T is willing to kill people on the slight chance that they might produce a useful death rattle and wants Szeth to kill as many people as he can in his showy killing sprees. He doesn't value individual life. Strength before Weakness This one is less clear, but it is interesting how much he sees his intellect as so much more valuable than his compassion (ie is resentful of his dumb days). Journey before destination He doesn't care how he gets to his goal, the goal is the priority. I don't know if Cultivation is playing him. But I don't think Mr T will turn into one of the goodies, because he is being held up as someone who feels self justified but ultimately is wrong. But I am glad he is in the story, particularly after losing the other two most interesting villains.

It is interesting! Kalak was a very sympathetic character in that scene. I would love to know what he is doing now. Maybe that is part of the reasoning, when he turns up we will be excited to finally get there.