Jenet

What is worthiness? Did the Stormfather think Dalinar was worthy before Dalinar just about forced the Stormfather to bond him? I think that Navani's underlying feeling of unworthiness is reflecting on all around her. Gavilar knows her, and uses this term because he knows it will hurt. The sibling is very insecure, and is perhaps afraid that a bond with someone who thinks of herself as unworthy must be dangerous. Also, they hate the fabrial tech's expoitation of spren. I think that a bondsmith must be a leader, and must be able to convince. Perhaps a prerequisite to bond a bondsmith spren is to convince the spren to bond you even though the spren really tries to dissuade you. Navani has always seemed a natural bondsmith to me, and I have expected her to bond the Sibling for a long time. My reasons for this is that she has been uniting people in difficult situations all the time. Every time Gavilar or Dalinar has been away, drunk, not caring for their guests, or out waging war, Navani has been there, helping people overcome their differences, their fear, their quarreling or their wish to go to war with each other. And a speciality of Navani's is her interest for sanitation and organising the infrastructure of cities and war camps. We are often told that she is organizing the repairs and structuring of sewage and sanitation, much to Dalinar's surprise and Gavilar's disgust. The Sibling is all about sanitation, ventilation, and making a city function. Everything that we take for granted, and rather don't want to know about. Navani understands all that. She is even interested in it. Discovering how to make anti-voidlight is very important. And impressive. Even though someone obvoiusly has done it before, it needed to be rediscovered. And she did it. Yes, Raboniel also got to know it, and that is dangerous, but nothing can be gained without risk. Navani would never have been able to rediscover the process if she had not cooperated amd united with Raboniel. All research and development is a struggle into the unknown. You need to take risks. Especially when you are in an extremely pressed situation, occupied by a dangerous enemy. However, it do not think that Navani is found worthy because of her technical value as a scientist. She is worthy because of her abilities as a bondsmith. A leader. She actually managed to make a bond to _Raboniel_, the most fearsome of all the fused. Yes, they cheated each other and they were enemies, but they became as much friends that was possible, given the situation. And Navani killed Raboniel for good. One fused less. In war, you seldom gain such enormous new insights and powerful new weapons without risk that the enemy will get to know some of it. But the enemy lost Raboniel, who was the only one who really understood the science. Yes, they got a written down method, but Navani got the understanding. And understanding will lead to more understanding, and even more advanced weapons. The issue of the fabrials expoiting spren will be solved. They will find a compromise. Just as all new technology is accused of exploiting the environment before it has matured. You need time to find out that your methods are not sustainable. And Navani promises that she will find an acceptible compromise and a sustainable solution. The sibling accepts this. And that means she is found worthy. I accept that others may find that she is not, and that the story is flawed because of it, but to me, the story is perfectly logical, even impressively accurate when it comes to how research and development works. And how it should be led. A bondsmith should not be a scientist only. She should be a leader, and one who unites.

It was not my intention to list "quiet" as an unlikeable quality. I was trying to describe her personality, and explain why I think the combination ended up as unlikeable. Venli really wants to be appreciated. She yearns to become famous. But she is a very timid and quiet person. So she tries to find other ways to get the appreciation she craves. It does not work very well for her. That is what I was trying to say. I find quiet people quite likeable most often. If they are not the resentful or manipulative kind of quiet.

Thank you for giving an explanation I can understand, even though I do not share your view. That's fine, and I find it interesting to try to understand people that think differently from me. You know, a big problem for people who struggle with mental disorders, is that their friends expect them to "get well soon". But a mental disorder is often not something you actually get well from. You learn to live with it. Or you get so well that you can handle yourself and pretend that you are "normal". Also, I find Sanderson's take on it a good one, not discussing diagnoses, but trying to understand all people, regardless of their formal diagnoses. To see the person and not the technical description, trying to stuff a person into a diagnose, or waiting impatiently for that person to be more easy to understand, in other words less cringeworthy or boring. I am an engineer, and a woman, and I have been working as a project leader in R&D, and I can totally relate to Navani. Sometimes I feel Sanderson has peeped inside my mind. So I can easily understand the fascination for the magic and the worldbuilding. But for me, that is just background. I like to get to know people, and why they tick. Lately, I have become less and less interested in following this forum, because so few are interested in discussing the characters and the "why" in their character development and the choices they make. Most people like to explain why they hate to read about certain characters, and why they love to read about others. I had my suspicions that most people here are like you, loving the technicalities and hating the people, that is if the characters struggle mentally more than a short time. I wish to say that I have no problems with this, that is also an interesting viewpoint for me. I needed to post a few comments to see if my feeling was right though, and it seems so. No worries, I just found out I get no more information from these discussions that are interesting to me, and I will stop trying to start discussions that are interesting only to me. Again please don't take this as resentment from me, I will be visiting and reading from time to time, I just needed to know if there are others who share my interests here.

First time reading the Venli flashbacks, I found them a little less interesting than the rest of the book. Maybe because I was hung up in the idea that these flashbacks were meant to give us more info on the singer culture, and as Sanderson has said, he had already revealed most of that. But listening to the audio book rereading the story, I find them actually quite interesting for a reason that is closer to my heart as well. Because I am first and foremost interested in why people act the way they do. And we get a lot of interesting information on both Eshonai and Venli's characters and how their Radiant status influences their characters and vice versa. Eshonai is the typical willshaper, I think. Bold, curious, outgoing, loves freedom above all else, and thus sometimes she has difficulty concentrating on her duties at home. She is mosty forgiven for this, because of her qualities as an explorer, a general and a person. She is a likeable, outgoing character. Venli is jealous, selfish, resentful and quiet. She is afraid of change, and basically afraid of almost everything, but she at the same time yearns for the same type of fame and appreciation that Eshonai is surrounded by. She on one side hates what Eshonai does, and on the other side, she is jealous of what Eshonai's actions brings. Appreciation. So, Venli starts her own way towards the apprectiation she craves. And her way is not a very honorable one. Because she is a resentful, selfish, jealous and quiet person who does not wish to stand out. It's quite a conundrum, finding ways to receive fame and glory without standing out and risking anything. Funny thing, Venli inherits a reacher spren from her outgoing sister. It seems to me that Venli never would have been among the first to attract a spren, given her not so admirable personality, but being in the right place at the right time, she just has to accept Timbre. And Timbre starts the job of changing Venli, light flash by light flash. I find this story quite fascinating. I have always thought that resentful personalities are extremely difficult to change. They really like the opportunity to blame others for their shortcomings, and find it very hard to begin standing up and taking responsibility for their own future. But I have recently seen friends and students being able to change, and in the process becoming a lot more agreeable and reliable persons. It is very interesting to see that Venli seems to get the same arc. And that she also becomes a much more likeable woman. I would not have seen this as clearly if it hadn't been for the flashback chapters, and the fact that we see the flashbacks from Venli's viewpoint as well makes the story much more interesting to me. Well played, Sanderson.

Thank you. Yes, I am just curious, and a little tired of sorting through all the hate threads without finding out more on why people hate the different characters. Several times I find posts explaining very thoroughly why we should understand and like the characters, and I find these posts interesting. But I learn nothing from people just plainly stating that a character makes them cringe, or that they hate a character. In fact I have engaged in one of the many Shallan hate threads that has evolved here, and I have asked for an explanation, so that I can understand why people wish to read these books, while not wishing to read about one of the most important characters. And I have not yet seen an answer that I can understand. For me, stating that you hate someone or cringe, or refuse to read their chapters does not make me understand more about that reader. I have come to believe that I have completely different things I look for in a book than these people, I guess. And that is OK. I find the SA extremely interesting because Sanderson describes all kinds of different people, with all kinds of troubles, many times seen through the eyes of others, many times grossly misunderstood, many times before they have really come to understand themselves. I just love to be fooled, to have my prejudices unveiled, to learn more, to follow someone on their journey to self insight. I just have to accept that other people have other reasons for reading. That is OK. I just find it curious.

Wow. I honestly don't understand why many people even read these books. It seems so many people don't like the characters, find the arcs boring, and cringe when readiing important character development arcs. And I am really interested in understanding other people. I should study this forum more, it seems. These problems that our heroes struggle with are not easily solved. They take a long time, and lots of repetitive frustration to find a way out. That is one of the most believeable and interesting aspects of these books for me. I'm sorry, I haven't got anything to add to this thread. I find Shallan very interesting and I learn a lot from her. I just had to let out a little frustration. This negative complaining really makes it less interesting to visit this forum for me. For me the whole SA experience is about learning how to positively understand other people, and to stop complaining about how bad, boring and completely useless other people are. Please don't get me wrong, I don't wish to stop other people from complaining, I just don't understand what people see in these books if they don't wish to read about the chraracters that are different from themselves. I thought that was the whole point.

I think this was the most beautiful and moving book I have ever read. Why? 1. The compexity somehow manages to mirror the complexity and wonder of nature and the cosmos. Well, yeah, the cosmere, but that is for me just a way to see the cosmos with new and wondering eyes. 2. The beautiful way he describes the interactions between people, peoples, creatures and worlds. How it actually is possible to communicate across time, borders, enmity, misunderstanding, and be able to _see_ each other. 3. How he understands so many different kinds of people, how they think, how they work, and how they struggle. And how they can forgive. 4. The descriptions of the workings of a research and development organisation. So accurate. 5. The whole Navani arc. I am so impressed. I have gone through so many stages of Navani's arc myself, and I cannot fathom how he got it so accurate. I literally sobbed several times. 6. Kaladins 4th ideal, and how he finally managed to get to it. The whole arc with the deadeyes. We chose!!! Time to see that the soldiers actually sacrifice something because they are so generous that they actually risk their lives willingly for others. That whole message was worth the whole 1000 page brick for me. Respect their choices. 7. How some people just seem to be beyond saving. Taravangian. Moash. I will accept that I cannot protect everyone. I have needed that lesson in my life as well. I can testify that it is true and valid. 8. I love the big questions: What does it mean that Taravangian takes over the shard? At least he has a snippet of good in him. What is Cultivation's big plan? How do all the cosmere world hoppers and cognitive shadows come into play in the next book? Awesome. 9. Kaladin as the Freud of Roshar, inventing psychotherapy. Love it. 10 I also love the generous time we must spend with all these problems and arcs. They are complicated. It is impossible to really feel the impact of all these complex stories without the immersion in them over time. We must feel the pain, the struggle, the frustration, the boredom, the fear and uncertainty to be able to appreciate the solutions and the victories. 11. Shallan managed to face her greatest fear. Getting a bond with a spren so early, that's really unfair. No wonder that was traumatic. One childish quarrel, and she just killed her friend. How awful and unfair. It must have been an error, it seems nobody else got a bond that young. Perhaps that was the reason she got to try again with Pattern. They gave her a new chance. But Pattern should have told her. I guess the cryptics understood that their testing of Shallan was too harsh. She was forced to find out everything by herself. Even trauma from her early childhood. We know that early trauma like that can be almost impossible to face, because they grow in proportion to your age. They felt immense then, and they feel even more immense when you grow up. Partly because they happen before you really have working memory. Even if it would feel like a trifle if it happened to you as an adult. But as she was told: I means that she is even stronger. 12. Adolin and his heroic fight for Maya. I love how we know what is going to happen. In these books it is not the "what" that is exiting, it is the "how" and the "why". We knew Adolin likely would revive Maya. The cool thing was how and why. And the struggle to get there. 13. Journey before destination, bastard. That sums up the whole book.

I have been fascinated by all this for a long time now, and a little puzzled by the low interest I sense from other readers. Hence my enthusiasm and short outburst yesterday. I am not sure I am able to conjure up a sensible summary of my thoughts, though, it's mostly a general feeling lying behind everything in these books. Just like you can sense the feeling of the Silmarillion and the ages that has passed while reading the Lord of the Rings. There has been an awesome age, very long ago, forgotten by singers and not known at all by humans, where the inhabitants of Roshar lived in harmony with the surges and the rythms of the planet. This harmony (pun intended) was so strong that they could create and destroy huge structures with it, perhaps even living things. Illuvatar was mentioned, good idea. Honor and Cultivation were lovers. Honor was the source of stormlight, and Cultivation was the source of the Rythms. We know that the rythms and the highstorms were there before the shards arrived, but they might have taken control of them. Together these forces could create much more than they could separately. We have some signs that this might have been, in addition to the ones I have mentioned earlier: - Ryshadium are followed by musicspren. These horse-like creatures are too large to be able to run quickly especially with a heavily armored rider up, unless they are supported by magic. I have always supposed that the musicspren has something to do with that, but not understood how. After the latest chapters, I realize it might have to do with a combination of stormlight and rythms. A riding instructor myself, and very into the importance of the rythm of the horses' hoofbeat in order to judge the quality of the gait and the sustainability of the movement, and even the horse's ability to grow strong, I am all astonishment at the thought. Is it possible that Sanderson really understands this? I dare not believe it. But he understands so much else, I am ready to believe. Thing is: If magic just reinforces natural phenomenons, or builds on the logic we are used to from physics and biology, this is perfecty logical. The rythm of the horses is strengthened by stormlight to create the extraordinarily powerful ryshadium. This attracts musicspren. Who are the dawnsingers? Did they create Roshar the continent? Brandon has confirmed that the form of the continent is based on a Julia set. A mathematical, fractal pattern, created by a function. Could be induced by music. We also may assume that the cities that Kabsal shows us with his cymatics demonstration are created by the dawnsingers or in other ways by strong sound waves. If a few fused are able to chant up an everstorm, I guess there are more to be had with a very large group of experienced, powerful beings. To be able to do this, you just need more power. Add stormlight to the rythms, and there you go. Also, on a side note, there is the interlude with the two ardents studying cooking and flamespren. It seems flamespren have something of quantum physics "logic" in them. They change as long as they are not measured. When they are observed, represented by their length being measured and noted down, they stop changing. This means that intent is significant. Something changes when a human observes and measures a flamespren. Intent is a very important factor in real life alternative medicine. Something tells me that it is important in Rosharan magic as well. I am not sure how yet. I feel that the madness and death of Honor has done something to the Rosharan magic system, a little like what happened in Elantris. More than what we already know. The whole structure is flawed because the powers of Cultivation and Honor are not balanced any more. And what happens when Kaladin finally understands, and perhaps hears, the rythm of war? I hope others will help me understand more by adding to this discussion.

I am still in a hurry, but I have some minutes to add some points. Why is the ancient language called "dawnchant"? Was the language derived from chanting? Or was it chanted? The Shattered Plains have shattered in a pattern that resembles a cymatic pattern. Did powerful people chant until it they were shattered? The cities that fit with cymatic patterns, how were they created? The fused from chapter 14 (?), the ones that were enclosed in stone, were singing a powerful song together. Venli feels the power and wonders. What magic is possible when both fused, singers and humans rediscover the full power of this combined magic?

Thanks for this post, I have been thinking along the same pattern for a while, too. Would love to write more, but am in a hurry. Just wanted to add my little theory about this: What if Honor supplied the light, and Cultivation stands for the rythms? What can she influence by that? Will try to be back soon.

I have searched for this topic, but I haven't been able to find a discussion on it, so I'll start one. For me, it is obvious that the singers and their culture has been under the influence of Cultivation and Honor for a significant amount of time. And of course, we know that has been the case. Until the humans arrived on Roshar, those were their gods, and they had never been influenced by Odium. The Humans brought Odium with them to Roshar, and at one point in time, they swapped gods. Maybe because the singer warriors was frustrated and angry with the humans who stole more and more of their land, and did not behave honorably. And then they became vulnerable to Odium and his unmade. At least the ones who became the Fused. And the humans began worshipping Honor. And Cultivation, depending on the culture. It is quite obvious that the humans still aren't very honorable culturewise. They cheat, lie and kill without reason as long as they are not seen doing it or as long as they can get away with it by pretending an honorable reason. They pretend to be honorable, but they are not. The singers have a very honor based culture. They never muster more soldiers than their enemies do at any time. Dalinar wonders why several times. They expect the enemy to respect their surrender, until Sadeas just murders all captives. They fight one-on-one, never attacking the enemy from behind. They have a very high respect for their dead, and very high morals. I have seen that many people think that the shard Honor only cares about oaths, but I don't see that this is the case. The traces of Honor in the singer culture is much broader than that. There might have been things happening to Honor before and after he was killed and splintered that made it seem that he only cared about oaths. I am curious to see what kind of influence Cultivation has had on the singer culture. We do not know very much about her, only that she seems to have very complex and long term plans that work in the background for ages before we puny humans understand what she is on to.

Have they got birth control in Roshar? It seems everyone thinks it's normal to be able to plan when to have a baby, but that is not something given. I don't know what Sanderson has planned for us, but it is perfectly possible that Shallan has had a baby. Simply because that happens when you get married and nobody has heard of planned parenthood. It might be that they consider it inevitable. It might be that the second batch of 5 novels will have Oroden, Gavinor and Shallan's baby as main protagonists for what we know, and that is a good reason for introducing a baby now. As a Radiant, Shallan will be required to continue her work, since there is a war and a possible end of the world going on, and well, women all over the real world go back to work quite soon after giving birth, leaving the kid to a trusted nanny, so why whouldn't Shallan? Personally, I would find it refreshing to see how Rosharans handle this. I might not be boring at all.

Yes, I agree, but my point was the all the shards have strong intents that will change the vessel with time. There was a comment in one of the "letters" that said (paraphrased from memory) "look what the shard Ruin did to its vessel, he was a kind man originally, and just imagine what Odium does to Rayse, who was mean at the beginning". So, if Gavilar had gotten so far at to collect the splinters of Honor (if that indeed was his intent), he would have been forced to become more honorable. I also must express how happy I am with how this discussion is turning out. I work with and know many people, both men and women who have been in abusive relationships, with and without violence. And my gut feeling when reading the chapter was bad. This is clearly abuse, and well written as well. I love how this book and this discussion helps highlight the real life problems that abuse victims suffer, also the problems of not being believed. The abusers seem so nice to everybody else. And psychological abuse is so devastating too, but many people think is it not so serious. Anyway, we must be allowed to discuss it, and people must be allowed to speak their mind about it. If not, we will never be able to explain in full how terrible a problem this is in society. And to people who experience retraumatization when reading this thread, I hope the process and the understanding from others that grows from it will help overcoming the trauma. Avoiding it will not help regrowth. I am not a native English speaker. I did not know that there is such a difference between the word bully and the word abuser. I am very far from excusing abuse, I have two sons who have been abused by their wives, and work with many students who have been abused violently, and I know how terrible this can turn out. edit: Sorry for the double posting, I saw this post and found it important to reply, but did not know how to include the quote in my previous post.

I did not mean that Kaladin's depression is caused by burnout. I mean that he is starting to burn out because he is been overtaxing himself in addtion to his depression AND his probable PTSD. I agree that Dalinar probably soon will order him to step back for a while and do some work as a surgeon to let his body and mind rest from a very stressful, continuous struggle. For years. Only if he gets some rest, he will be able to find himself as he has grown to become, and to grow.

It is perfectly possible to get both.

Yes. I realized that this might be a topic interesting enough for a separate thread, so I started one.

I mentioned this in my general "reactions to the latest chapters", but I thought the idea might deserve a thread on its own. Kaladin needs to reach rock bottom before he is able to swear his next ideal. He is so strong and hard headed that he is unable to bend or open up to new insight. I think he will just become more depressed, sleepless and frustrated until he breaks and realizes what he needs to do. It is so typical for burnout syndrome. Check out his symptoms here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/high-octane-women/201311/the-tell-tale-signs-burnout-do-you-have-them If Kaladin really hits rock bottom, I hope this will be what he needs to build himself up from solid ground and progress with his ideals. It is typical for burnout syndrome that the one afflicted is the last one to realize it. They become less reliable, more forgetful, and not as awesome in their job as before. And a very typical symptom is insomnia. Kaladin also has done everything in the How-to-get-burnout-syndrome-handbook. Being over zealous and very good at his job. Working double shifts. Taking on more and more responsibility. Not very good at delegating. Often, people report that if if weren't for their hitting rock bottom after getting burnout, they never would have found themselves and progressed. So I keep hoping that Kaladin will crash, and hope it will not become too dramatic. (Oh, well, I know, It's Sanderson)

My reactions: I love how Shallan is switching between her aspects like normal people switch beween their moods or skills. Also her greater confidence and how she so easily manipulates the Sons of Honor, at least as far as we have seen. I like how the characters learn to exploit their weaknesses and forge them into strengths. Kaladin needs to reach rock bottom before he is able to swear his next ideal. He is so strong and hard headed that he is unable to bend or open up to new insight. I think he will just become more depressed, sleepless and frustrated until he breaks and realizes what he needs to do. It is so typical for burnout syndrome. Check out his symptoms here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/high-octane-women/201311/the-tell-tale-signs-burnout-do-you-have-them If Kaladin really hits rock bottom, I hope this will be what he needs to build himself up from solid ground and progress with his ideals. I also love how we can see that the singers have been in culture with Honor and Cultivation for a much longer time than the humans. Their traditions are much more honorable and more cultivated than the humans'. But since they took over Odium from the humans, they have been forced to change on the surface. I also love that Sanderson does not bother with telling us everything that has happened since last time in all detail. We obviously have more exciting stories to come! Bring them on!

I just love how Sanderson in the first chapters of each sequel gives us a lot of answers to questions everyone has discussed for years, and then just runs off releasing loads of new and exciting mysteries. What I hate with other, more soap opera-type stories is that there are story lines that never ends, conflicts that go on and on with the same characters and the same logic, just different people that stab each other or resent each other, it's so boring and nagging. Yeay, Sanderson, keep it up!

Yes, Gavilar kept Alethkar together with politics. And thus it was important for him to keep an image of a strong and wise king. Which most of the people in Roshar believed in. But as we see daily in the news, it is not necessary to be honorable to be seen as fit to rule. What I am saying is that Gavilar might not be as honorable as people believed he was. And that the pieces of the Honor Shard perhaps would see behind the politician's facade. I find that my reference to Jafar was quite fitting. For Jafar thought that becoming an all powerful magical entity would give him the ultimate, almighty power. But it also gave him the bond to serve whomever rubbed his lamp. Just like we saw with Harmony, the shards have intents that give the vessel little room for their own ambitions. What I was referring to is that I am not sure if Gavilar was aware of that.

I find it totally logical if Gavilar has such ambitions. And I think that it is possible to collect shards and splinters of Honor and unite them to become Honor's vessel. I only think that Gavilar's way is the wrong one. You should not begin with wanting the power. It's difficult to unite all the pieces of Honor without a hint of honorable intent. For a while now I have thought a lot about what we actually know about Gavilar. I did not have a very good impression of him, but after Navani's prologue, it becomes much clearer. Gavilar did not unite Alethkar. Dalinar did. And the latter got all the bad stuff, the PTSD, the bully reputation, the dead wife, The cast out status. Gavilar took the crown, the glory and the power. And Navani. Gavilar was a little more brave than Sadeas, but when I study the battle scenes where Dalinar fights together with Gavilar or Sadeas, the two latter always send Dalinar in first. And afterwards they collect most of the honor and the "stuff" for the victory. Gavilar actually is using his little brother as you use a trained dog to attack intruders. And you give the dog a bone and a pat afterwards. And shoot him if he cannot guard you any longer. When Dalinar succumbed to his PTSD, drowning himself i alcohol, there is little understanding from his big brother. He once told Adolin that his father would pull through, as he was a soldier and able to fight his problems, but he also tried to prevent Dalinar from getting more alcohol, and made fun of his brother. It really strikes me that Gavilar never actually cares about his brother's situation, just about how others will think about the brother of the king being a drunkard. The only one that really understands, is ironically Jezrien, or Ahu, the former greatest human on earth. Also broken. We now know that Gavilar was a bully towards his wife, the queen. Petty, jealous, and afraid for his reputation. He did not so much care if Navani possibly had been unfaithful, only what the court was saying about it behind his back. It is obvious that Gavilar is a less admirable person than Dalinar. Even though Dalinar did most of the murdering. There is something very honorable in Dalinar, and honor can be used by others. Gavilar can exploit Dalinar's honorable intent because Dalinar realizes that he would never take his brother's place,because it is not the right thing to do.. Even though he knows that he would have been a better king than his big brother. Then Dalinar quenches his conscience with overwhelming help from the thrill, because he must not set his will up against the King. The King decides what to do and whom to kill. Dalinar just obeys. Dalinar does not want to participate in the war planning meetings. Why? Because he is no good at or not interested in war tactics and strategy? We know that to be untrue. So, I think that Dalinar unconsciously was not all that keen to conquer and kill just to win glory and power for his brother. But Gavilar does not care, as long as he gets what he wants. So, where do I go with this? I think that everything I know about Gavilar tells me he is a person who does everything to get to the top. He wants more power. If there is someone above him, he wants to take their position. You are the mightiest person on Roshar? Oh yes, but there are Gods. A little like Jafar in the Disney Aladdin movie. But I also think that is where Gavilar miscalculated. Because I think you cannot collect all the splinters of Honor without honorable intent. And I think that Dalinar has been sort of honorable all his life. Despite the fact that he has been posessed by the Thrill. It seems that Dalinar has come a long way in his Honor collection. Without the greed for a powerful position, but with the ambition to save the world and make peace.

Good point!

I like the idea. When discussing questions like this one, you should always be willing to investigate paths that are not so comfortable to consider. Cultivation is not a cuddling mother, she is like Nature. Hard in her seeking of balance and growth. If she came to the conclusion that someone she loved was becoming more and more altered and perhaps crazy, and that person had allmighty powers, well, there might be a possibility that she would finally help eliminate that power. And she would grief for a long time for him, of course. Both before and after it happened. We know that Honor was not himself in a period before he died. That could be because he was influenced by the process that finally killed him, or it could be that his sense of honor went into a kind of positive feedback loop after all the desolations and wars. Honor can be a two-edged sword. Many terrible, endless family feuds or wars between peoples and countries have been driven by the sense of honor. People felt they had to take revenge and defend their honor. That is the back side of the shard. It seems that the singers have a culture that is very much influenced by the positive elements of honor, like their honorable practices in war. I feel we can trace a lot of Cultivation and Honor in them, and sadly a lot of Odium in the human traditions. But if honor goes crazy, you end up with endless retribution wars. It might be that Cultivation would hate such a thing to happen. And finally agreed to stop the process by shattering Honor. If so, she would have a long term plan to defeat Odium after all and in the end. We have seen that she is a very complex and long time planner. Of course we don't know if that was actually what Sanderson is going to tell us happened, but the theory is not so far fetched.

Hm. It's always difficult to create awesomeness in others. To force-grow it. Awesomeness needs to grow independantly. i guess Gavilar was not much for independence in others.

I admit that I was diappointed that Rand al Thor and Egwene did not find back to each other, so I was a bit happy when I realized that Laral turned out to be such a sensible woman. What Kaladin needs is a girlfriend who is down to earth and able to stand up to him. But who knows what happens in love?