Leyrann

I don't know how much difference already knowing a writing system makes, but I needed one evening to be able to kind of write and read Alethi letters, though slowly (and we see Dalinar is going slowly as well).

Agreed. Which is why I don't think it has anything to do with Gravitation at all, but rather Transportation.

Well, we're not going to find missing Shards without trying, and neither are we going to get correct definitions without discussion. If we have hate and love as their 'own' Shards though, why don't we have Shards for all other emotions, like sadness, anger, happiness, etc?

@Calderis I think that the motion being copied is actually a reason to consider it Transportation, as it's considered "the Surge of motion and realmatic transition". The thing is, gravity, in all it's forms, simply pulls on one of the objects, and even if you would have gravity pull in another direction, as we've seen Gravitation do plenty of times, gravity doesn't end. It keeps going until it hits something. If you copy the motion in reverse, however, it stops when the motion stops. Additionally, I don't think there's any difference in "importance", so to say, between using Gravitation and Transportation. One negating the need for the other would be equally valid both ways around, so there's no need for a preference either way. Also, I don't see why Transportation would be less spiritual in nature than Gravitation.

So, first off, fair warning, I've only read the scene with Navani's invention once, and that's a few months ago, though I'm doing a reread right now. Navani shows one platform going down, and another platform going up for it. Normally, gravity works on everything, and if that thing it's working on doesn't touch the ground, it will, if not opposed by anything, move towards the ground. So even if you were to transfer all gravitational force on the down-platform to the up-platform, then gravitation would immediately start working on the up-platform, which would either pull the down-platform back up (if the link is complete and symmetrical) or, best case, pull the down-platform down, in which case it would hit the ground and the up-platform would no longer have the upward pull and only get pulled downward, at which point it would crash into the ground again. If the locations of the objects were linked to one another, however this could be avoided; you can fix the cumulative distance the objects have from the ground, and if one object goes down, the other has to go up to keep this cumulative distance the same. And that's why I think it's Transportation. The explanation is much easier and raises far fewer questions, at least in my eyes.

I don't see why you'd need a counterpoint for that. We know that Kaladin doesn't need anything, but these connections between things are much more related to a motion extending to another, bound object.

I think that Jasnah's knowledge of Transportation might help out a lot with that kind of stuff. It's assumed to be the same principle anyways.

The goal of this theory is to derive the 16 Shards of Adonalsium from the Surges as they are described in my theory of the Fundamental Surges[1]. To do that, I first devised a system that would use sixteen different combinations of Surges to form Shards, without these combinations being arbitrary. In the end, I ended with Preservation, Ruin, Wisdom, Existence (EDIT: maybe Unity, not related to Dalinar), Devotion, Dominion, Passion, Cultivation, Endowment, Autonomy, Honor, Creation, Evolution, Ambition, Progression (EDIT: or Ingenuity) and Curiosity as the sixteen original Shards. I have also included several points of discussion in relation to the Shards, and how this view on the Shards would influence those discussions. Part I: The Quest for the Shards According to Brandon, the Metallic Arts are created to fit on the same pattern as the Shards[2]. Though I suspect that it is not possible to find the Shards simply by looking at the Metallic Arts[note 1], it does tell us that there is a pattern to the Shards. As I was thinking about the Surges, and realized they might actually be fundamental in nature – rather than simply believed to be so by Rosharans, like we once believed earth, water, air and fire to be fundamental – I realized that this would be the perfect starting point to find this Shardic pattern. As I started working out the idea of the Fundamental Surges, it soon became too big to write as a single post, which is why I then posted a separate theory for the Surges, to serve as the base for this theory. After some fruitless attempts that ended with 16 Shards from 10 Surges, but had them mostly arbitrary in build-up, I decided to start from another direction, and use the smallest common multiple of 16 and 10, which is 80. This would imply that every Shard would consist of 5 Surges and every Surge would appear 8 times. The Fundamental Surges theory allowed for a symmetry in the Surges that were used. As there are 3 Physical and Spiritual Surges, and 2 Cognitive and Hybrid Surges, it is mathematically required for any Shard to use either 3 Physical or 3 Spiritual Surges, and none of the others, as otherwise the symmetry would form a too large amount of Shards when avoiding arbitrary exclusion of combinations[note 2]. When taking this as starting point – a Shard uses either 3 Physical or 3 Spiritual Surges, and the other two are Cognitive or Hybrid in nature – 12 Shards can be formed, as there are 6 ways to make pairs when you have 4 options, which then gets doubled because of Spiritual and Physical variations. The last four Shards do not adhere to this pattern, but rather consist of the Surges that belong to a single Realm. I want to stress, as I have also done in my Surge theory, that a Surge (or Shard) ‘belonging’ to a Realm does not mean the Surge or Shard exists only in that Realm. Far from it, as the Realms are little more than how our consciousness interprets the workings of the Surges. The Shards can, more or less, be divided into four groups. The first group is the Two-Realm Shards, which consist of either Physical or Spiritual Surges and either Cognitive or Hybrid Surges. The second group is the Physical Mixed Shards, which consist of the Physical Surges and one each from the Cognitive and Hybrid Surges. The third group is the Spiritual Mixed Shards, which consist of the Spiritual Surges and one each from the Cognitive and Hybrid Surges, and the fourth group is the One-Realm Shards, that only consist of the Surges from a single Realm. These Shards, as will become clear, are also a bit more simple in Intent than the other Shards. Now, one last note before we dive into specific Shards, I have written Part II of this theory without going back to adjust or change anything, which I consider an argument in favour of this theory, as I indeed got all known Shards in there, but did not get a single Shard twice. Part 2: Surges to Intents Let’s recap of which Surges the Shards would consist (numbered for easy referencing): Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Illumination, Transformation (1.1) Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Progression, Transportation (1.2) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Illumination, Transformation (1.3) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Progression, Transportation (1.4) Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Illumination, Progression (2.1) Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Illumination, Transportation (2.2) Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Transformation, Progression (2.3) Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion, Transformation, Transportation (2.4) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Illumination, Progression (3.1) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Illumination, Transportation (3.2) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Transformation, Progression (3.3) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Transformation, Transportation (3.4) Cohesion, Tension, Adhesion (4.1) Gravitation, Division, Abrasion (4.2) Illumination, Transformation (4.3) Progression, Transportation (4.4) Now, let’s think a bit about what these Shards would be like. I want to note, once again, that the ordering in Realms is not absolute, and that all Surges (and Shards) have effects in all three Realms. I’ll start with the last four Shards, as they are less complicated in their Intent. 4.1 through 4.4. 4.1: The Physical Shard. Related to Cohesion, Tension and Adhesion. Cohesion and Tension together control the qualities of solids, and Adhesion controls the qualities of liquids and gases. These are all things that very actively drift towards an equilibrium and no more change, which makes me think this may be Preservation. 4.2: The Spiritual Shard. Related to Gravitation, Division and Abrasion. Now, Division is directly related to the increase of entropy, as I argued in my Surge theory. Additionally, Gravitation and Abrasion control gravity and electromagnetism, two of the fundamental forces of nature. This seems, to me, like a perfect fit for Ruin, who represents change: the occurrence of fundamental forces and increasing entropy. 4.3: The Cognitive Shard. Related to Illumination and Transformation. Transformation means change and, in particular, cognitive change and therefore thoughts, illumination means consciousness itself (through L-Theory[3], explained further in my Surge theory). I would say this is a Shard that pursues knowledge and logic. A Shard that has been proposed previously – and might have been teased by Hoid in Oathbringer – that would fit this very well is Wisdom. 4.4: The Hybrid Shard: Related to Progression and Transportation. This Shard is the core of the connection between the Three Realms, through Progression, which forms the link between the Realms, and through Transportation, which allows movement between Realms. Additionally, as I also argued in my Surge theory, the connection between Realms that is granted through Progression is what we know as “life”, which makes me think that the Shard related to these Surges may be something like Life or Existence – which, on top of that, would make it a good fit for the so-called “Survival Shard”, despite “Survival” not being it’s Intent[4]. Take into account that life also has a habit of spreading, which is the Transportation part. EDIT: I figured in a later post in this thread that Unity or maybe Identity might be a good name for this Shard. 1.1 through 1.4 1.1: Physical and Cognitive. A Shard related to bringing equilibrium/balance (Physical Surges) and consciousness and thoughts (Cognitive). I would argue that this is a Shard that aims for calmness of thought, I’d almost say a meditation Shard. Devotion, maybe? 1.2: Physical and Hybrid. Another Shard related to balance, in this case coupled with life and movement. I think that this Shard is about how and where life is (interpreting Transportation as “distance” or “widespread”), with focus on the “how and where” in particular. When interpreting “life” as sapient life in particular, it looks like a very clear fit for Dominion. 1.3: Spiritual and Cognitive. A Shard related to the occurrence of fundamental forces and thoughts and consciousness. I would argue that this Shard is directly related to intensive feelings. Passion. Or Odium. 1.4: Spiritual and Hybrid. Again a Shard related to “stuff happening according to basic rules” (I’m just stretching my descriptions here to avoid saying the same things over and over again) and, this time, life and movement. Cultivation, anyone? I don’t think I need to explain this one, it just feels very obvious. 2.1 through 2.4 2.1: Physical with Illumination and Progression. A Shard related to balance, consciousness and life. I think this Shard would aim for consciousness and life to be. Of course, as we have seen with Soulcasting in particular, every entity in the Cosmere has its own – often very limited – consciousness. With that realisation, as well as the point where life is meant to be everywhere, and yet for there to be balance, Awakening appears to be made for this, so I’m going to put Endowment on this. 2.2: Physical with Illumination and Transportation. A Shard related to equilibrium, consciousness and movement or maybe places. This Shard, I would argue, wishes to be everywhere and wishes for things to not change. I don’t like how it feels like I’m ticking off all the Shards here (leaving me feeling like I apply a known Shard too easily) but I’m going with Autonomy. It just seems too much in line with what she’s been doing. Also take into account that she has so many personalities, so many separate consciousnesses. 2.3: Physical with Transformation and Progression. Equilibrium, thoughts and life, to sum it up. And I think I’m going to tick another Shard off. I earlier figured Honor would likely have the Spiritual Surges, as there is a theory somewhere that he is about creating Spiritual bonds, but just think about this. This Shard (2.3) wishes for thoughts (ideas, opinions) and life to stay mostly as they are, in equilibrium. This would explain both the Oaths (you have to adhere to your ideas and opinions) and the Oathpact (life needs to remain). Additionally, creating Spiritual bonds is often considered part of Adhesion, which would be one of Honor’s Surges. 2.4: Physical with Transformation and Transportation. Equilibrium with change (or thoughts) and movement. I would argue that this Shard would be looking to create sapient life, probably with a wish to explore, and to also have this life remain. Let’s go with Creation. 3.1 through 3.4 3.1: Spiritual with Illumination and Progression. A Shard related to fundamental forces, consciousness and life. This Shard would be looking for consciousness and life to be changing naturally at all times. I’m going with Evolution, and I’ll admit that I went with it partially because it has the exact opposite Surges from Creation, but it was also the first thing I thought of. 3.2: Spiritual with Illumination and Transportation. A Shard related to fundamental forces, consciousness and movement. As seen with Shard 2.2 (Autonomy), Illumination and Transportation mean wishing to be everywhere. When coupled with the Spiritual Surges, looking for change, this becomes deciding what happens everywhere. Ambition. 3.3: Spiritual with Transformation and Progression. Fundamental forces, thoughts and life. A Shard that is looking for the natural occurrence of change in thoughts – sentient life – and life itself. I would say that this Shard, more than any, is related to sentient life existing and, in particular, changing and thereby advancing. Let’s go with Progression, by lack of a better term (a different meaning of the word than the Progression Surge though). Any ideas for better names are welcome! (EDIT: Someone on discord came up with Ingenuity, which I like more) 3.4: Spiritual with Transformation and Transportation, the last of the Shards! Fundamental forces, thoughts and movement. With changing thoughts and wanting to be everywhere, I think Curiosity might be a good description. So, in the end, the sixteen Shards would be these: Preservation, Ruin, Wisdom, Existence, Devotion, Dominion, Passion, Cultivation, Endowment, Autonomy, Honor, Creation, Evolution, Ambition, Progression(/Ingenuity) and Curiosity. Part III: Food for Thought Adonalsium’s Intent Adonalsium himself had all ten Surges. Therefore, he had equilibrium, change, consciousness, thoughts, life and movement (or however one should call that one). All in one, and a balance. I would say (and yes, this is inspired a little bit by the theory about it) that his Intent was Unity, a balance of everything. Harmony Harmony, a merger of Preservation and Ruin, has both the Physical and the Spiritual Surges. This means that, on one hand, everything is supposed to remain the same, yet on the other hand, everything is supposed to change. This cancels each other out for the most part, making it hard for him to act. However, there is one thing where they do not interfere with one another, and that is in natural change. Though the Physical Surges for the most part signify balance and lack of change, they do allow for change if there is not yet equilibrium. This is how Harmony can act; by changing there, where a change creates equilibrium. With the filter of his Vessel, a good-meaning scholar, this means he changes in such ways that it allows those who are not hindered by Intent to do what he would want to do, but can’t do. The Rosharan Triple Shard In the past, I’ve theorized about a possible merger on Roshar, and I called the Shard Guidance, a mixture of growth (Cultivation), Honor and emotion (Passion/Odium). And what are the Surges in these Shards? The Spiritual Surges appear twice (Cultivation and Passion), and together they got the Cognitive and Hybrid Surges. Additionally, Honor provides the Physical Surges and Transformation and Progression, related to thoughts and life – together sentient life. First of all, this Shard would not necessarily be blocked from anything, as it would contain all ten Surges. However, it would have a focus on the Spiritual Surges and Transformation and Progression. Basically, the ten Surges plus Shard 3.3, which I called Progression. I would argue that this Shard therefore has a mix between Adonalsium’s Unity and the Progression Shard as Intent. I think Guidance, indeed, would be a fine name for this Shard. It aims for the progression of life and technology and also aims to unite everything. It guides towards something greater. Odium versus Passion This is a debate that has been raging on the forums for a while. First of all, a Shard focused on hate like Odium is, by some, said to be, does not fit into the theory anywhere; not by a wide margin. Second, and this is coming at it from the other side, I would argue that “Odium”, which basically means “hatred” is far more simple an Intent than any other we have seen. It doesn’t fit in the list of Shards we know. Passion, however, would do so far better. The reason that the Shard is called Odium, I think, is primarily because of the Vessel, who’s goals are largely odious. Vessels And that’s the last thing I want to talk about. The Vessels, as confirmed by WoB, ‘filter’ the Intent of a Shard[5]. Though the Vessel will have to adhere to the limitations it has received from the Surges that make up the Shard, it can do whatever it wants as long as it’s in accordance with those limitations. One thing does limit them even more, however, and that is that the amount of Investiture they control itself will slowly warp their mind to make even their wishes more in according to the Intent of the Shard; this is why Ruin eventually aimed for the destruction of the world even though Ati did not want this. Possibly, this may also have changed Rayse during his time in the Rosharan system, where he now focuses more on inciting emotion than he did in the past, when he focused simply on that which furthered his own goals (which was typically hatred, as making the correct people hate one another can do a lot for that). [note 1]: Not that it stopped me from trying. [note 2]: As an example, the ways a Shard can contain 2 Physical, 1 Cognitive and 2 Spiritual Surges would be enough for 18 Shards already. [1]: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/64703-ob-the-fundamental-surges-of-the-cosmere/ [2]: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/95/#e833 [3]: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/25226-the-l-theory-of-realmatic-strings/ [4]: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6-bands-of-mourning-release-party/#e326 [5]: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/246-alloy-of-law-17th-shard-qa/#e5485 EDIT: I've come across WoBs that are potentially interesting in regards to this theory several times, but by themselves all not enough to warrant bumping this thread back to the first page of the subforum, so I'm instead going to edit in the links when I find them and once I got a bunch I'll write a single post about it. For now, here's the first one, and curiously, I have Autonomy and Honor pinned down as opposites in a way, though different from the two ways I had previously considered opposites. In this case, they would be opposites in that they share the Physical Surges but have different Cognitive/Hybrid Surges. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/50-calamity-denver-signing/#e776 A second one, this one slightly strengthens the Ingenuity Shard, as Brandon has said he would pick a Shard we don't know yet: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/314-salt-lake-city-signing/#e8935 I found another one, which may actually be more important for the post on the Surges themselves, but for now I'm adding it here. This implies that it's at least valid to see the Surges as fundamental like we see our fundamental forces as such: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/373-skyward-chicago-signing/#e12004

She could create gamma rays... Those are just photons, after all. Not sure if she could create alpha and beta particles though.

Egwene also has some Bondsmith characteristics. Or, arguably, the three ta'veren could be the Bondsmiths, whether they like it or not. Lan - Stoneward Rhuarc - Windrunner Cadsuane - Stoneward Elayne - Lightweaver Alivia - Truthwatcher Perrin - Bondsmith (even if it isn't "three ta'veren, three bondsmiths") Faile - Willshaper Tuon probably wouldn't attract a spren because she's just wouldn't fit "life before death" and "journey before destination", but if she would, I'd say Bondsmith. She'd probably not settle for anything less anyways. Maybe Skybreaker. Min - Truthwatcher Aviendha - Windrunner Silviana - Dustbringer Gawyn - Windrunner? Unsure about this one. Androl - Willshaper (arguably a Brandon character though?) Demandred - Dustbringer

Considering lightweaving is indeed directly related to waveforms, I guess you could do fun things like extreme sounds to harm your enemies or maybe deafen them. As for creating silence, if you're manipulating waveforms, then you could probably also 'stop' them, so I guess it wouldn't be too hard. Would also be very handy to not harm your own army with those extreme sounds. (also, I hope Shallan is into metal )

I doubt a major point of view character would die. Maybe a Bridge Four character other than Kaladin, Lopen, Teft, Rock or Sigzil, someone like that. I would argue that all bets are off as early as the prologue (if it's not Gavilar's murder again) or chapter 1.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/103-salt-lake-city-comic-con-2014/#e1038 I'm not sure how absolute that WoB is. Brandon also says "Taln is Rosharan", and then RAFO's if he's "native to Roshar". In the first sense, they're all Rosharan (so from the same place), in the second sense, some or none of them may be from the same place.

You might want to try to not necro threads that are over a year old, particularly with a post like this that doesn't really add much to the discussion except for stating the obvious.

Selian magic is instead location based, and it is indeed extremely hard if not impossible to become an Elantrian if you're not from Arelon, as you won't have a Connection to Arelon. Surgebinding works very differently however. You only need to be broken (and opinion varies on when you're broken, but we shouldn't expect it to be something extremely uncommon, as there were thousands of Radiants in the past) and you need to be chosen by a spren. Where you're from doesn't matter at all. But either way, the Heralds do not actually have a spren bond, but rather gain access to the Surges directly through the Honorblades, which, obviously, have been created by Honor's Investiture. The Heralds seem to have some additional bonuses, of course (they're functionally immortal, for one), but either way their powers have been granted to them by Honor directly, not by a bond. As for where the Heralds are from, yeah, that could be basically anywhere. As RShara mentioned, they don't look weird to Rosharans (though a bit hard to determine where they're from), indicating they have Rosharan eyes rather than normal eyes. For all we know, however, that could also be a physical change that's been made to them to not stand out so much, or maybe they've started viewing themselves as Rosharan and have changed it through Progression. But there's little evidence that they're from one place compared to another place. Except maybe Scadrial (depending on when Ruin and Preservation created Scadrial compared to the events on Roshar that spawned the Oathpact) they could be from any planet we know about, and maybe a few we don't know about. Having said all that, we also don't know whether they are all from the same planet, and Taln could indeed be the odd one out who is from a different planet than the others. However, the most popular theory regarding why Taln "should never have been one of them" is that the others were all kings and generals and the like, while Taln was a common soldier. Oh, and while Elantris does play first chronologically in the Cosmere, it will not have played much before Stormlight Archive (I would say some 500 years at most, probably less), as they'd otherwise probably have been so Cosmere aware they'd show up everywhere. We do know that they're the furthest ahead in that, however. On the other hand, Roshar in particular will catch up fast, now that their past is also known.

Brandon wil definitely RAFO this. I'm myself torn on whether this is some kind of (likely intentional) remainder from Adonalsium that he uses to guide Dalinar in a way (connected to the theory that "Unite them" comes from Adonalsium as well) or whether it comes from the God Beyond, who is more like the Judeo-Christian God.

Welcome to the Shard, and great first question! There's no absolute consensus over here, but the most popular (and I think simplest and most likely) theory is that he Ascended with a part of Honor, maybe de-Ascending afterwards, if that even makes sense. A common addition to this is that he will re-interpret the Shard's intent as Unity, which, depending on the explanation for the Shard, can be close enough to fit the intent. Another theory that I've seen is that he picked up a part of Adonalsium, and that Adolnasium had as intent to "unite" in one way or another. How exactly this would work is unclear though.

To be fair, I don't think Brandon would avoid something because it happened in Wheel of Time or another fantasy story.

I'm not that familiar with the Arthurian tales, but from what you're describing, it sounds more like a parallel to Gavilar - Navani - Dalinar to me. Also, there is one point that is very important to a relationship where the parallel does not hold up in any way. You say Arthur was so busy being a good king he never had time for Guinevere as a person. That is a trap I do not believe Adolin will ever fall into. In fact I would argue Adolin would probably be so focused on seeing and helping the people that it would hinder him if he had to be a king.

I'm intruiged. Was this on discord or is there a thread I can read? Beta Carinae, the 'second' star of Carina according to the (very influential) Bayer designation is about 111 lightyears from Earth. Era Carinae, the 'fifth' star of Carina according to Bayer (so still a prominent star*), is 8000 lightyears from Earth, so they're also about 8000 lightyears away from one another. Same constellation doesn't exactly mean stars are close together... *Nowadays it appears less prominent because the star is acting a bit weird, and I could write whole paragraphs about that, but the important thing is that it was a very prominent star, and though less prominent nowadays, it is probably the most interesting star in our galaxy.

Do we know there are exactly 10 types of sapient spren though? Maybe there are more types, but only 10 types decided to bond with Radiants.

The closest planet to Earth is Proxima Centauri b at just over 4 lightyears. Though this planet, in size slightly but almost insignificantly larger than the Earth, has an orbit about 5% of the diameter of Earth's orbit, it orbits a star that emits 0.005% of the sun's light in the visible spectrum (which we can safely assume is the only spectrum in which Khriss can observe). I do not know how that exactly compares to one another, but I doubt the detection of Proxima Centauri b would be much more unfavorable than the detection of Earth next to the sun (a good example of a standard sized planet at a standard distance from it's star), and with all our 21st century equipment, we have not been able to directly observe Proxima Centauri b yet. So, yeah, I think it's safe to say Khriss can't either. (for the record, even in star clusters (which actually aren't mentioned in your WoBs), stars typically have a distance of about 1 lightyear or more between them)

That and it's variations may very well be the most popular theories for the ending of Stormlight Archive. I think it's gonna be a triple shard, including Cultivation as well. And the first real Ascension is probably going to happen in book 5.

With the highstorm on the horizon... That would be beautiful. And a second one where he's flying in the air, hanging on the rope.

That's a pretty clear answer... Also would mean they're not in a star cluster by the way. So I hadn't forgotten anything.