Archer

What Bort appears to be suggesting is that an elim kill via the exe is worse than the elim kill we'd get from the fang kill. Since the elims get to choose which one of them dies to the fang kill and will have presumably planned accordingly to mislead us from the death, I disagree with this. In theory, the kill they don't anticipate, the one arrived at through analysis that has readable conversations leading up to it, is more valuable to us than the fang death. Our best case scenario is actually that we exe an elim who is different than the one the elims planned on sacrificing. I don't think he's trying to shift focus from the fact that getting a fang kills requires a mix, given his last line, but I do think it's weird that he doesn't like the implications of an elim exe C1. Bringing up the e!Striker exe implies the elims will distance from teammates they expect to survive than from the one they expect to die. I find that unlikely. EDIT: Xino, how strongly do you believe in us having multiple Elders? I'm trying to decide whether or not Kas felt the game would become unbalanced if the solo Elder died C1 to the NK.

I think the only way the Fang mechanic will really hurt the elim team is if somehow someone they didn't expect to be exed gets pressured and they have to Fang that person instead, which leaves the originally planned target exposed for having had weird posts to that point. Otherwise, I'd pick a designated sacrifice and instruct them to be as confusing or low-info as possible, expecting them to flip within the first three cycles. As such, I strongly encourage everyone to make frequent, detailed takes about their suspicions so there's something to read you by if you flip. It's actually kind of hard to fake a reads list if you know you'll die but don't want to expose yourself yet. Also, the elims have half the votes needed to activate the Fang, and on the flip side, we need 2/3 of our side to choose to activate it if they don't want to pull that trigger. So I suspect they'll be able to decide whether they want to give up the slight thread control advantage their extra person gives them and kill a teammate C1, or delay it until the village gets frustrated enough to want an elim death via the mechanic. Getting a flip via exe is better than a flip the elims control, Bort

Signing up as Buffy, who has an intense fear of fangs. Fang kill happens during rollover, right?

*bonk* I'm quite happy to continue playing with you if you'd just lower your personal expectations. It would help limit the amount of excuses you make for yourself if you'd accept less from yourself in terms of output amount and quality. Might be less personally satisfying if you're more confused as a result, but if the trade off is a happier outlook, I highly recommend it. And it would make me feel less like you're sacrifing sleep for a bad reason.

At 240, that elim doc is 11 off the record for most mentions of my name in one. :/ That elim doc is a little worrying. One reason being it sends the message that Kas would struggle to be evil in a longer game, which can serve as a soft clear next time he plays in one, because GMs aren't meanies (despite what you may have heard). I think because they discuss their struggles with burnout so much, while putting in admirable efforts, I have a tendency to think they've done enough, let's not make life harder by voting for them. Which translates into lazy, early clears. So I'm open to suggestions on how to approach such situations now that one has backfired one me, in a way that works for everyone. also they banked on me not revising enough and were right. rood. But mostly I'm going to chalk this up to good play by Aman and Mat and others for catching one, and then good distancing by team evil. *** Random death RP: A producer pulled Nid aside. “You’ve got dirt under your fingernails.” She locked eyes with him. “So?” “There’s a sink over here. You should take care of it before you meet with him.” “Let me ask you something. What’s the worst part about washing your hands?” He shuffled his papers, confused. “It’s getting your sleeves wet. I hate getting my sleeves wet. And for some reason, every single outfit you’ve given me has had a massive sleeve on the left side.” “Well then it’s only half the work to…” “No. Because you know what’s impossible to do singlehandedly? Use a bar of soap. What am I supposed to do, pet it like a hamster? Spin it like it’s David Bowie’s glass balls?” “I don’t understand those references. But no matter, we’ll get makeup to sort it out for you. How’d you get muck on you anyway?” Nid sighed. “Wish it was while digging your grave. Oh! Adolin, honey, you like a dirty gal, don’t you? We were just talking about what I can do with one hand.” The prince blinked. “Do you like swords?” “I like it shorter and sturdier. I’m more of a dagger girl, myself.” “Okay.” He grabbed a sandwich and began to walk away. “It was knife knowing you then. Goodbye.”

that's right, I was evil the whole time! no, Lotus, don't... sigh I was planning on some voting shenanigans last cycle to test Kas' willingness to shift to Orlok, but I didn't want to fiddle too much with TUA's vote being uncertain and then TUA apparently forced the right shift and then Kas just went with it? I think the only tell I could have picked up on was TUA being a weird kill. Maybe Mailliw's frustration, but I always read self voting as evil. Good game elims. Was not expecting that outcome. EDIT: Oh yeah, thanks for running this, Lotus and Araris. And for going for 3:12 instead of 4:11. Gave us a chance :P.

It is convenient that Striker gave inactivity clears to both Orlok and Mailliw. But they nulled Kas. So not much to read into there. Mental note not to effort clear Orlok in future. If the team is Mailwei, Sticker and Orlock, why did all the hard to spell names unite Kas supports a Striker exe pretty early, over me. And Malibu didn't. Wonder if there was a secret reason for Mailman's no vote cycle. I'm who e!Kas would keep alive. Hmmm. C3 Mailililialaialaiaalaia clearly supports Orlok. C5 Kas heavily susses them. C6, the elims could say whatever they wanted so long as the wagons split, but I do like Kas' willingness to vote Orlok on short notice. Emotion throws this out the window, but I think self voting is odd when the option of believing in a Archer-Kas team was available. I think given elim wincon, believing the last two of them would actively support each other isn't too difficult. I'm going to go with the simple explanation here and vote Mailliw. I'm fine with the cycle ending now, and have relayed that to my GM PM. See you in the Aftermath.

you could have killed me. I have a death RP and it will never be posted. :P. Seriously though, I was certain I would die. Anyway, I want village cred for voting Orlok the past two cycles. Therefore you two should vote for each other and if this goes poorly, it's all my fault. Which means I should actually check my work with some backreading again. So I'll take a raincheck on the quick cycle. If I don't vote and the NK hits me, it's 50/50 which sides wins. Versus 100% chance of success or failure. I should probably commit to a read though.

Glad I checked in. We don't have time to argue, so I am now voting Orlok. Really hope that's not a typo. @The Unknown Novel

oh darn, I was going to write a ginormous post showing why those two are sus, but Kas went and did all the work, very upsetting :P. I feel like you specifically didn't need to do that because if you commit to v!me from C1 Striker interactions, then because of my and TUN's Orlock votes and your knowledge of your alignment, it has to be Mailliw and Orlok. But thanks for doing it anyway because I wasn't going to get to that. I saw TUN was on a few hours ago, so I'm hoping they put in a vote. Mailliw, v!you means there has to be e!Kas from my perspective, so you're better off putting your vote there to try and bait me. But honestly I'm just going off of POE and a solid read on Kas

Kas then proceeded to be evil for seven straight years.

It's time to plaaaay Who's That Eliminator! "It's Ashbringer!" It's Orlok! "F----!" Wanna bet the guy pushing a Kas exe didn't want to NK them? I need to look at this again after class, but right now I'm at v!TUA and Kas and e!Orlok and Mailliw. Edit: -Kas was early to exclude Ash from the suspect pool when he could have mixed him -Aman and Kas had unfinished RP to do, so it'd be an odd NK -TUA voted Orlock, which means they aren't e-e. Which means the value play here is to vote Mailliw so my vote is moving there actually -Mailliw was I think right about Illwei and Ashbringer. Too right, ammiright. No one has reads that good when the Frog of War is about.

That's my cue to vote orlok

Yeah, sorry Orlok, as a mobile player I haven't really followed much of what you've said. Who ya voting for? Your system goes village green to black to orange to evil red, right? Are you willing to vote Illwei today? Does that change if Orlock votes Kas?

It sounded better than I can't count on TUN's vote so I need Kas as consolidation support and he's village reading you so I'm rolling with his reads. Yeah i think what it was was the Devo thing was meant to look like it frames Ash which made me look bad for pushing him? I think there was a better thought process but I forgot it last night. Anywho, I've consistently disagreed with the order of their reads, and the way they arrived at Ash, Kas, Illwei is the pool is through removing themselves from contention. So if I trust those three, they're next up. Or if I get cold feet and vote Ash, he's a nice backup option. Because C1 they acted nifty shifty. I'm confused ok

thanks but I'll pass :P. Do you need a nom, Illwei

I did and you put Kas in black so I was suspicious. Going off his previously stated reads, I'll assume Kas is fine consolidating around Mailliw, Orlock, or maybe TUN. Mailliw can do Kas, Illwei, or Ash. Ash is voting Orlock. Orlock probably isn't voting for me. grrr that's a village thing to say :P. I'm moving my vote to Mailliw. Illwie, the Devo kill points to them not caring about shrinking the busser pool. Ash, you're cool with it. Kas, they have a sus voting record. Orlock or TUN, one of you has to be their teammate. Or its Illwei because Mailliw is allergic to voting for them this round. Here the thing, I'm fairly committed to the elims being 2 of Illwei/Mailliw/Orlock. If I go Mailliw from a soft village lean on Illwei and TUN, that brings me over to Orlock is one by POE almost. So I can talk myself into an Orlock consolidation. If there's three elims I think we're too split to win anyway. Edit: or do I split my votes and go back to C1 reads to look at Ash :D. Because weeeeee

*raises hand* Illwei :P. You can't call a half dozen elim slips slips, that's TWTBAW. I'm still confused why this is your sticking point. I give one village point to Striker, make a joke, and then mildly sus him because I felt he seemed like he got caught out not actually voting and he was overcompensating by putting it in red in response to the pushback. But I'd given him a village point earlier in the post, so my headspace wasn't that he was fully elimy, so it came out as a 'hmm'. Kas is a trust. I think Aman or Kas talked me round to Ash at some point and I've just stuck with that. TUA hasn't committed to pushing a counter-option to them, which I'm going to read village. I was kinda enjoying not having to think about Orlok, and I had them down as not e-e with XP so it would have been great if that flip hadn't been green. Mailliw has had consistently different reads than I, so I'm sus of them (Why are they willing to sus Kas based on voting record but not Illwei, who has a similar record?). It's weird that Illwei aren't on the same page about me, but Mailliw is defending Illwei, so that pair sort of works. Illwei's suspicion of me feels fabricated, especially given their willingness to take a detour through Experience, but I know that's not the most popular pick right now. Here's the problem, Illwei said something to the effect of Devo's dead, must not have been bussing. :bIink: That throws Mailliw under the bus. But also, not the best conclusion since the more obvious implication is that I am evil, because. I had this figured out about how the Devo flip was a framing attempt from Illwei and I can't remember the reason. I'll post it if I figure it out. Anyway, not e-e? why don't we just kill both and one will be correct. My preference is Illwei or Mailliw today. I'll throw in Orlock as a third to make Ash happy. I need sleep goodbye

Could you please explain your thought process there? Last cycle you said you were willing to vote Illwei, now you're voting with them in a way that pins blame on them when it backfires. It reads like you're distancing until someone calls your bluff. Your last post of the last cycle talked about your bad gut read on Illwei, where'd that go? And are there specifics attached, or are you too worried you might actually convince someone to follow you? I don't stereotypically openwolf, when I did it in the LG I explicitly openwolfed. Entirely dissimilar. :P. Anyway, you know what a stale thread looks like, so swinging for me right now for trying to get some conversation going seems opportunistic. I entirely misplayed C1 if I was evil. Should have voted and I should have committed to a bus or a defense of Striker instead of doing the type of handwringing that doesn't persuade anyone. I think I look better off an evil flip that round than I would had we killed v!Striker, because I played it more like an elim who thought we'd mix than one with a teammate on the line. Good questions! I figured people following along didn't need me to rehash the arguments but I'll reiterate why I'm sus of you specifically. Elims like being on near rollover. Late C1, you made a post that said you were confused. Then you ended up voting with Striker on Ash. I think you hadn't laid the groundwork to change your vote and you wanted to not have everyone bus and you wanted the possibility of a CW to exist so you kept it where you'd planned on the Ash CW. And now you're clearly keeping Illwei on hand as a tomorrow problem, but not actually getting around to voting for them. Howdy, Mailliw. I think TUN's is weird because they're entirely defensive. XP, same. I'm hard reading you and Illwei being obvious teammates. It'll be funny if I'm wrong, but it's the kinda play I'd make if I thought we could get a bad mix out of a lull cycle.

@The Unknown Novel, @Ashbringerwho're you guys voting for? Wanna join me on Experience? Take a stab at Mail for being out of sync with consensus? Look into Illwei because Aman isn't here to argue against it? Joking aside, those are the three I'd most like to exe.

totally forgot to flirt with JNV's character. Our ship name was going to be the Spider Couple because Aracha+Nid... oh well I need to RP. Nid popped some gum into her mouth and sauntered over to Floradel. "Hi, I'm rich. You look like a TUN of fun. Does my breath smell like mint, because I've got a lot of new money." I'd figured Illwei and JNV were evil teammates trying to get the TUA mix going last cycle, but apparently that wasn't the case. I'll note that Experience was the only one lurking near rollover, so mild sus for that. Actually, big sus because besides Ash who I'll ignore for now and Orlok who is MIA, they're next on my list. Largely for saying, “Literally got nothing, including time. I... think I'll drop a vote on Ash this turn.” at the end of C1. Felt like them trying to save face after the knew Striker would die.

*Looks smugly at my alarm clock*: What time do you think it is? Alarm clock: 9:22 *under my breath*: what an idiot I have decided I disagree with this point. The Devo kill reads to me as a token effort to kill off the people cleared by having voted for Striker, with the list arbitrarily shortened by chivalrous considerations. As someone said earlier, there was too many votes for them all to be village. By the way, thanks for taking one for the team, people willing to be NKed. Just make sure you're not imposing OOG reasons to use the kill that might force the elims to change from their preferred strategy.

I for one disapprove of the bus gambit C1. :P. Without a voting record for people to work off of, e!me usually treats the first cycle as a free mix requiring little work besides not getting into trouble. (Which I'm prone to doing, but ignore that.) I feel like I'd have come out more strongly against Striker for more village cred, and maybe have actually voted. The non vote thing was supposed to be a good way of signalling I'm village because I didn't self pres in the round where that might have mattered for me, but it really looks bad in a situation where most everyone else voted on an elim. Besides Devo being generally hard to plan for because of the timing of their votes, the best reason I've seen presented for their kill is the Ash sus. I've tended to kill people who suspect me of late, but I know most people do the opposite. Plus no one seems to want to join me on that train. I felt Mailliw73's reads list was off, so I'm not fully trusting of them right now. But I'll move my vote to JNV and scream if Ash is getting away with murder again. :D.

I think the elims would have waited to submit their actual votes until the very end of the round, which is when the actual bussing technically occurred. People have said Bort was offline for the back half of the cycle, call it 11pm PST to 11am. You could make the argument that by 11pm, Striker knew they were in trouble based on an inability to come up with a viable CW, but most elim teams would wait until the morning to see where things stand before deciding to bus. If e!Bort knew they'd be inactive, they wouldn't leave a vote on Striker that might hurt his team if the thread shifted near rollover to give Striker a better shot at survival. If e!Bort didn't plan on being inactive, I think they wouldn't leave a placeholder vote on a teammate under serious pressure. The only scenario I could see them being evil with a vote like that is if they kinda knew they'd have to bus and put the vote in, then checked the Shard in the morning without logging in and decided to just leave it. But then, why not get some extra village cred by cursing out Striker near rollover? What's their timezone, anyone know?

Bort is villagey because they left a vote on Striker pre-bussing time. That's good enough for me rn. Aman is very village. His post dissecting Striker's reads list and subsequent follow-ups were definitely not e-e. If you buy that Striker's out was a mix of me, the elims had to lay the groundwork for voting me at some point. JNV doubling down fits that bill. Orlok's vote post C1 really looked like bussing. As did XP and Ash's comments, although XP voting with Striker looks better to me because you'd think they'd try to distance better. I feel like TUA is a longer shot than Ash, and I'll be suspicious if we keep shooting peripheral candidates. TUA didn't even vote, let's refocus on the bottom of the bottom of the list. Can't help but feel like Illwei is buying time, even if I kinda agree with their strategy.