Catladyman

Growing plants with the help of stormlight sounds a lot like Progression, hmm? It makes me wonder if the Parshendi have ways of accessing surges via gemstones, rather than the spren-capture fabrials we see the Alethi use.

@jefftucker0525 here is the exact wording: I believe that the "us" here refers to Aimians, possibly the Sleepless in particular. The word "redeem" seems to be a clue to me because of the Scouring of Aimia. Obviously something happened to make other people of Roshar annihilate Aimia, so maybe whatever caused this is what needs to be redeemed. I think one of these four will destroy the Aimians by remembering/revealing some secret of Aimians resulting in their destruction.

@Calderis I think @ForcesOfNoodles was thinking of this WoB.. I guess we can't really know whether Hoid was offered a Shard before or after the Shattering. I don't believe, however, that the beings that Shattered Adonalsium knew exactly what they were doing, to the extent that they predicted Him breaking into 16 parts. I can't imagine what form the power took immediately after the Shattering, but I think it was during this in-between time that Hoid was offered a Shard. If Noodles's theory is correct, it probably happened immediately after the Shattering.

Thanks @Calderis!

@Calderis do we have confirmation that Lift can’t inhale stormlight? Or is it just that she hasn’t figured it out yet?

What makes you think that Edgedancers only have one Abrasion-related ability? True, we have only seen Lift decrease friction, but she is also the only Edgedancer we have seen and nowhere near expert at using her abilities. I think Edgedancers will also be able to increase friction, as well.

I thought the same thing. Between his seeing Cryptics and come to realize self-aware truths, Elhokar seems like a definite Lightweaver.

@iamstick I do not remember that last quote but it just blew my mind. First of all, if he has bonded the Nightwatcher, it is BLATANT as Brandon said. Second, the exact wording of Renarin's coming out party was: We have seen by her boons and curses that Cultivation has a mischievous and calculating nature. I would not be surprised to find out that your "Glysphrenia" was pretty much spot on. Its pretty believable to imagine that Cultivation said, "First of all, you tell people you're a Truthwatcher. And you know what, pretend I'm male, too, just to make sure no one suspects." Okay so maybe it's a little crazy. But that's probably what I like about it.

I LOVE this idea for what attracts Truthwatcher spren! I had been thinking along the lines of selflessness or compassion, based mostly on Stump and Ym. However, the idea of a lonleyspren or something is really unique and fun! I also really like picturing these people so isolated in their own worlds suddenly visited by a spren that looks like light through a prism. Lovely.

I think Renarin's fit are the result of a couple of different factors. First, he is clearly very uncomfortable with his visions and is reluctant to assume the role of Radiant, which can be seen in the way he finally admits to bonding Glys at the end of WoR. Second, he knows the knowledge in his visions is important to his family and kingdom, so he wants to tell people about it. However, a Truthwatcher inclination to contain the knowledge (similar to Kaladin's near-inability to lie) is pushing against that desire. He has fits as he struggles against his Truthwatcher-ness to get the information out there. The Stump could very well have been receiving visions of the Everstorm. However, why would an old lady running an orphanage feel some duty or responsibility to tell people what she sees? There may be no conflict within Stump because she is too stubborn to even believe her visions let alone tell people about them.

I like the sound of that! At this point though, I'm ready to hear the ideals and see some of the orders we haven't met yet!

Thanks @Calderis! I still think that everyone's assertion that Renarin must be a murderer/odiums champion/generally creepy is the result of a combination of his being on the spectrum and truthwatcher behaviors, as opposed to true foreshadowing.

Thank you for making this point! Brandon would not take so much care in realistically creating a character on the spectrum just to make him a villain. Remarks presents as mostly neurotypical, but just a little off, so in-world people react to him as creepy. Do we have a WoB guaranteeing Renarin viewpoints in the future? Just wondering because it has to be pretty difficult to do a POV for someone on the spectrum without being there himself.

@Calderis I have to read it again but I got the impression that Laral contacted Navani via a station in Tashikk. I'm of the opinion that queen regent refers to Aesudan and implies something ominous in Kholinar.

This could be a restriction placed on the order by their spren, similar to how Kaladin cannot lie because of Syl. The way that Syl and Pattern seem to stand in opposition as far as ideals makes me wonder if we will see a similar tension between Glys and Ivory. Jasnah's order possibly values the recording and sharing of knowledge, while the Truthwatchers see it as harmful. This could also explain the way Renarin acted during his visions. He was struggling against his Truthwatcher-ness in order to write and communicate any of what he was learning.

And how will this bonding ability manifest with other orders? Would a Windrunner enable Dalinar to fly? Can he borrow surges? Or does he boost them, perhaps enhancing a Windrunner's squires?

I feel like @Calderis is spot on with this theory. Perhaps the foci of the different forms of investiture are the remnants of Adonalsium's investiture pre-shattering. It also forces the question of what would happen if a Shard left a planet and invested another with an existing magic system. For instance, if Endowment left Nalthis for First of the Sun, another form of investiture that seems to suit her intent? How would she boost/change the system there, and what would Nalthis lose?

I definitely like the idea of the Champion being one of the four. If not Kaladin, why not Shallan? She's the one I'd least expect, so it'll definitely be a shock if that's the case. Also, her villainous one-liners would be most satisfying. @OathKeeper why not Lift instead of Moash as Cultivation's Champion? The Shard has already proven unpredictable via the Nightwatcher, so I doubt her Bondsmith will have much say in her choice of Champion. Besides, Lift has already proven to be a special project of Cultivation's, so the groundwork has been laid to make her the Champion.

@ethan_sedai it would make sense, something like Chaos? The question is whether it would also be a dual-shard, like Harmony, or a single, unknown shard? If a dual-shard, I would like to see Cultivation as part of the equation. It seems naturally opposed to Preservation by centering on change, and it opposes Ruin by emphasizing growth.

I have to assume that companion spren (cousin spren) are an actual in-world phenomenon. We have already seen windspren with Kaladin, creationspren with Shallan, and lifespren with Lift. Going along with that idea, I like the idea of decayspren bonding with Dustbringers, with rotspen as the cousinspren. However, aren't decay and rot essentially the same thing? In the other cases we have seen, associated types aren't really synonymous. What about faithspren as a spren type? If it were the true spren for the Willshapers, it would make sense how closely the Vorin church monitors Soulcasting. It would also be interesting to see an order of KR emerge from within Vorinism.

@Hafrigado I have, and I understand that Ruin, as the embodiment of entropy is necessary for ANY sort of change, so the negativity might be more due to Ati than to Ruin. However, I am not sure if I can see Brandon naming a spren after a known Shard that has no association with the world in question.

@Hafrigado... well, yeah. But less negative. Although I've always assumed that Dustbringers owe their reputation to their eyes (they glow red, right?) or to the way they use their powers. It is possible, though, that people mistrust them because of a bond with a spren people typically fear/dislike?

I thought about something like this, especially with regard to the Dustbringers. There has to be some concept that relates to destruction or division without being inherently negative. I liken it to the idea of knocking down a building to start fresh or re-breaking a bone to allow it to heal correctly. I'm just not sure about how to describe it in a concise, one-word, spren-like fashion.

@Firerust Yes we know the name of Inkspren, but what concept do they represent? Similar to how we have seen the Truthwatcher spren but are still completely in the dark as to what they embody?

@Farnsworth according to the WoB, Ym is a confirmed Truthwatcher. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1181#8 Also, I am not sure if we have confirmation on Stump's order. I've assumed Truthwatcher up to this point because I feel like Wyndle would be aware of it if one of his own cultivationspren was in the city bonded to a surgebinder. Am I missing a WoB that confirms Stump's order? EDIT: @Nathrangking i don't believe heatspren would qualify as a true spren. The concept of heat seems very basic to the universe, not one of the higher order concepts we have seen so far from true spren