Fatikis

11 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

FYI, Brandon has not confirmed this and has, in fact, been rather coy about it.  He has confirmed that Hoid has used Allomancy.  

Personally, I believe that he did burn it, and that this is "The Man who Calls Himself Taln" all over again.

You just posted a quote confirming he used the Lerasium?

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Questioner

Did Hoid use the bead of lerasium to rewrite his spiritual DNA or Web in a way other than just giving himself allomantic powers?

Brandon Sanderson

His goal was to become an Allomancer.

Hoid rewrote his sDNA with the goal of becoming an Allomancer. We have seen him use Allomancy.  This equals Hoid has used the lerasium.

Technically he might not be a Mistborn he could have used and alloyed a piece of it to gain only misting abilities. We so far have only seen him Sooth.

46 minutes ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

 We don't know where Odium came from before, or how his power manifested there.

Odium came from Ashyn.  Non-cannon alert:  The investiture was based off of sickness. Those that were sick gained powers from it. 

As to your theory as Rshara stated it is basically correct. The bit with Atium and Lerasium isn't quite right. The metals didn't just manifest because of the nature of Scadrial. Excess shardic power seems to often take the form of metal on any of the planets. For instance Shardblades are a godmetal.

8 hours ago, BitBitio said:

Silver is not Allomantcally invested, yet works on Shades.

 

Could it kill Kelsier as a cognitive shadow?

It depends on how shades function. They seem to be cognitive shadows that are pushed into the Physical realm. Kelsier is only in the cognitive realm during the events of Secret History. If you brought silver into the cognitive realm you could probably kill him with it.

33 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I don’t think so. The cognitive shadows on Threnody is wierd (Threnody in its entirety is wierd). They work differently on Threnody, and I doubt silver kills them somewhere else.

The properties of silver are Cosmere relevant. The effects are not isolated to Threnody. More than likely silver would harm a cognitive shadow anywhere.

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Jessica, Matthew, and Jared Ashcraft

Is there significance in the fact that the world of Silence Montane uses silver for protection? (Even though there is no known Allomantic use for silver)

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

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Questioner

In Mistborn, silver doesn’t play a role. But then in Shadows for Silence, silver does play a role...

Brandon Sanderson

It does. I still wanted silver to be part of the Cosmere.

Questioner

But we’ll never see it in Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

It does not, as they understand currently, interact with Allomancy, with the three Metallurgic Arts. Silver does have a Cosmere role.

Hoid also carries a silver sword. which is interesting. 

3 minutes ago, John203 said:

The surges are not of tanavast or cultivation or any shard

Do you have a WoB?
The manifestation and usage of the surges appears to be specifically linked shards. Honor/Cultivation and possibly Odium. 

The God metal is probably different depending on the spren. Honor spren a pure god metal. Cultivation spren pure Cultivation god metal. The others alloys of god metals.

32 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

Does anyone remember the Ones Above in their spaceships from Sixth of the Dusk? Sanderson confirmed (I don’t know where) that Sixth of the Dusk is, so far, the  Cosmere story/book/novel that takes place the latest on the timeline. I think the Ones Above are actually Era 4 Scadrians. Thoughts?

This is what I've always assumed. It seems like their machine uses bronze to seek Aviar. This is just an interesting example of possible future technology from Scadrial.

51 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

I feel like it’s good to have this insight on Hoid. We have never seen him lose his head or his temper. We have never seen this display of emotion from him. It really gives him some depth as a character, and helps us to see: this guy is human, or once was. Even if he is this mega-god being, he isn’t above having feelings. Now, we have a better understanding of his motives, and what they are driven by. He is mourning an old, but still important, loss— possibly of a love interest, family member, or friend— and is seeking revenge.

So what does he want with a lerasium bead? What does he want with the Moon Scepter?

OB Spoiler...

  Reveal hidden contents

What does he want with a bond to a cryptic?

It seems that he is taking something that represents every Shard. I would not be surprised if he also kept hold of an atium bead, some white sand, and maybe something from Threnody (that is, if he has gone there yet).

So what do we know about Hoid’s motives now?

1. They are driven by emotion.
2. He requires a certain group of objects in order for his plan to work
3. Whatever plan he has to get what he wants is very, very dangerous— for himself, for Frost, and possibly the entire Cosmere.

I agree that it is very good to have insight. I just think that either this will be included in a published book, or the same themes will be reiterated in other novels. It was very short but awesome. Exactly how I want Hoid. Honestly, I'm not excited for Hoid as a full character. Sanderson will probably prove me wrong, but Hoid works in small mysterious doses.

Hoid does not currently have Lerasium. He used it to become a Mistborn.

He rejected a shard probably because he knew it would twist him. If he gathers enough investiture of different types he shouldn't be warped by the intents. As he pointed out not even Ati the best of them couldn't resist the pull of his shard. That is what Hoid fears. It almost is a twist on Odium. Odium refuses to take another shard because he will stop being Odium. Hoid refuses to take a shard because he knows he will no longer be Hoid. 

24 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

I think this pretty much sums up what we can get from this story. Maybe, as we learn more, we can add to the summary and make an “official” blurb about how much we know. I have a feeling that this story is going to become EXTREMELY important.

I feel it is extremely useful insight into Hoid with a nice look into some other happenings, but as it isn't even published it cannot be that important to the cosmere as a whole. 

3 hours ago, Weltall said:

Brandon has pretty much stated that the base sixteen are enough, we just don't currently know enough about all their interactions and how their use can be expanded mechanically to understand how it will work. Let me repeat the WoB I provided earlier:

Your WoB does not support you. The base 16 and interactions between them and harmonium. Sounds a lot like harmonium alloys. 

Just now, Ixthos said:

The 16 base metals are not enough to travel in space.

Given normal science works in the Cosmere it alone is enough to get you into space. Allomancy and feruchemy just make it even easier. It is a fact that the 16 base metals are enough to get you into space. 

4 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

@Fatikis So you agree? Your first sentience says that there are only going to be 16 base metals in allomancy. Your second sentience says there are more alloys, but due to the first sentence implies they are not allomantic, as in they might be Feruchemical or Hemalurgic or primer cube. Your third sentince reinforces this, as Harmonium can't be ingested and so can't be safely burnt, implying that the interpretation on the first sentince - no more allomantic metals - is correct.

All of my statements hold and are basically facts. You don't seem to understand the nature of the metals or god metals. There are a base 16 metals in the metalic arts. If you have enough connection to a shard you can burn their god metal. God metals can be alloyed with the base 16 metals.

There will not be any additional standard allomantic metals. God metals can be alloyed. These can be used for allomancy if mistings of it exists or full Mistborn.

Just now, Ixthos said:

You stated there were no more allomantic metals other than the base 16 (technically 8 basic and 8 normal alloys). I was reitterating that there are more than 16 allomantic metals.

Let us clear up further misunderstandings - do you agree that there are more than 16 metals that can be burnt, and those those will produce allomantic effects?

41 minutes ago, Fatikis said:

There are only going to be the 16 base metals of allomancy. However you can create alloys with God metals which we have not seen yet. So there are a lot of Harmonium alloys we could see.

2 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

@Fatikis There are several alloys, after all Atium is allomantic, and Atium and gold are a confirmed allomantic alloy, and they are not of the original sixteen, nor is Lerasium one of the sixteen.

The god metals are not normal allomantic metals. They are raw investiture that can be used for allomancy and feruchemy. There will not be any more base metals. There are 16. There could be god metal alloys. As I already stated previously.

13 minutes ago, Weltall said:

There are, but I don't think Brandon has a lot of plans for them. He was asked how many allomantic metals there are and said that fifty is 'nearly correct'. If you count up the known metal possibilities before harmonium was introduced, you get fifty one. Brandon mentioned harmonium specifically as an additional metal. It's hard to imagine fifty being almost correct if Brandon was thinking about opening up Pandora's Box with harmonium alloys as well.

And of course, this is assuming you can alloy harmonium. And find ways to use it without blowing yourself up.

Harmonium as a god metal can be alloyed. I find it hard to believe we won't see some of them. Many Cesium alloys are nonreactive.

4 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

On that note, I think it might also be that medallion technology using other metals - assuming the medallions don't already use other metals - which could produce different effects should be considered. There is one known alloy with a shard metal, and its results are a variant on the base metal. Has the possibility of alloys which produce affects similar to the base metal been considered, such as an alloy of Cadmium, which doesn't stretch time but rather distance, been considered? I think that not enough has been revealed of the possible metals, and so not enough is known, so using the current set of metals won't answer all issues, but variant metals might be the idea.

There are only going to be the 16 base metals of allomancy. However you can create alloys with God metals which we have not seen yet. So there are a lot of Harmonium alloys we could see.

27 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Medallions, and even the Bands, are just scratching the surface of the technology. In light of this recent WoB, I'm not convinced that space travel is going to rely on anything as simple as the airships, but I'm sure time bubbles will be involved somehow. 

 

I think early space travel will use basic but more advanced medallion technology. I'm talking about early solar system exploration technology. Something we will see in the 1980s Mistborn. By the time we get to interstellar travel and Spaceborn we will get into the really complex machinery.

I think there was a natural shardpool with the mixture of the two powers that the Terris people sat a top of. Over generations this created the first Feruchemists. Now we see that Southern Scadrians seem to have quite a few ferrings without Terris blood. The Southerners also seem to be near Harmonies shardpool as they have access to Harmonium.

I doubt Trell or Autonomy was involved with Feruchemy in anyway.

4 hours ago, Yata said:

Honestly I read It as:

"The One is Adonalsium or a belief based on Adonalsium and its Shattering (there is a WoB about) and the Irali see the Shards as the One's Avatars or the One itself"

That is very possible. It would make sense. If this is true I would wonder if Irali are just like any other sentient race in the cosmere or if their creation was more specific. 

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

As amusing a thought as that is, it wouldn't really solve the distance problem, it would just relocate where it's happening relative to everything else in the Physical Realm. An Elantrian would still experience a massive power loss within a few hundred miles of Elantris whether Sel is where it should be or if it's moved to, say, the Scadrian System. Same for the other systems, even if the loss isn't as dramatic or the distance restrictions somewhat less severe. For example, the distance between MaiPon and Elantris is enough that Forgery doesn't work in the latter region. The distance between a planet and just its moon(s) is astronomically greater than the distances at which we know magics stop working because of distance from their 'home' region.

The Dakhor monks seem to be expanding their area of magic reach by conquering allowing them to use magic at a further distances. Even before they battle they declare a territory as theirs which seems to allow them to access their power.

It is possible that Elantrians could increase their domain either through conquest or perception which may allow them to extend the reach of their power. Distance would still likely cause issues. It might weaken the dor by stretching it over such a vast area. The Ire seem to be able to tap into Selish magic from Scadrial. We don't see them us the dor, but they have what appears to be power lines of investiture powering their cognitive stronghold.

That being said it seems a waste of investiture to move your planet all around. There are probably better ways.

33 minutes ago, TheHeadHancho said:

@Fatikis Why not? I think the idea of Cultivation (and by extension the Nightwatcher) make perfect sense because, over millennium, they gained the reputation as just giving people what they want and what they deserve just because it offers growth, or as some may put it, experience. 

Giving people a curse and a boon is not "experience". By your definition of experience granting literally anything would count as such and makes any shard an equal likely candidate. Experience does not equal growth. Their god isn't interested in cultivating the best people. The goal is to experience all things. A very different intent than Cultivation.

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Furthermore, they are stated to not even be good or bad (I’m struggling to find the exact quote, maybe someone can help me out) and that leads many, probably including the Iriali, to thing they just want change, which as Cultivation’s intent plainly states, they do.

I'm not saying they are good and bad. I am saying that wanting to experience everything doesn't fit with Cultivation. There is no reference to wanting change by the Iriali the religion. Their goal is to experience everything. They don't seem to have a real goal in mind. They also are not from Roshar. Roshar is the 4th planet they have visted. This would mean that Cultivation heavily invested elsewhere before Roshar, and then also directed the Iriali to Roshar to experience life on a planet that she was already occupying in full force.

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I think the things about avatars might have made you think Autonomy but it’s probably just coincidence. There is just much more evidence supporting The One being Cultivation, at least on Roshar.

The only evidence for The One being Cultivation is that they mention to go to the Valley.

We most likely we are dealing with an unnamed shard. Sanderson has a number of shards to reveal, and I would guess the Iriali are seeds to one of these shards.

22 minutes ago, Naurock said:

Proposed new title: 7 Cosmere Tricks that will blow your mind! You won't believe number 5!

1 simple cosmere trick doctors don't want you to know!

33 minutes ago, Weltall said:

It definitely will involve more advanced technology, at least by Era 4, Brandon has said that we're getting 'actual FTL' which would preclude the idea of A-Cadmium 'sleeper ships' being the approach we'll be getting. But that sort of thing could work in the time leading up to whenever Scadrial cracks FTL travel, maybe even become a plot point if some 'present day' Scadrians encounter an old-style ship taking the cadmium approach.

For sure we are going to see Feru/Allo tech in Era4 I'm super excited for that. I'm thinking more on the lines of the 1980 tech level. 

I do wonder how the Scadrian FTL will work. If they could find a way to move a speed bubble you could use this. Maybe Bendalloy access through a metalmind. Possibly multiple multiple bendalloy bubbles would work. Move through one bubble while still attached to the next. You are going to burn through bendalloy fast this way. 

2 minutes ago, Gasper said:

As most of us know, Mistborn era 4 will be a space opera. That leads me to believe that there will be some sort of non-cognitive realm travel involved. I what to know what you think the space travel will look like. Given what we saw in BoM, I think that launching ships using steel pushes is a viable option. But, I want to hear your thoughts. 

 

Also, art/drawings/links to art/designs are welcome on this thread.

The new metals seem to hint at how this can be accomplished fairly easily. Use Harmonium and Steelpushing for flight. Burn Cadmium to slow the time for those inside the ship without altering the speed of the ship itself essentially putting yourself in stasis. Tap Cadmium for breath storage. Tap Bendalloy for calories when needed. Tap Brass for warmth.

The ship actually doesn't need to be that advanced for this to work. All you would need is an airtight ship that can withstand entering and exiting the atmosphere. You'll then need a lot of stored Feruchemical attributes.

The space opera will probably use more advanced machinery, but we will probably see this kind of basic spaceflight in the 1980s Mistborn.

10 hours ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, I know why he said that, I'm just pointing out that Brandon's confirmed that it does work hemalurgically to steal things. And that whatever it does, it's evidently not nearly as impressive as its allomantic (and potentially its feruchemical) uses

The feruchemical potential is the most interesting to me. Too bad lesarium barely existed Era1, and you would really need a full Feru to tap it. I would be surprised if TLR didn't experiment with it. I wonder if a cache of it exists somewhere on Scadrial.

1 hour ago, anarchitect said:

Maybe Cultivation is The One. The aspect of Cultivation fits with the idea of a god that wishes to experience life on on different lands, to cultivate experience.

This doesn't seem to fit with Roshar being the 4th planet they've visited. Others directly refer to Cultivation so another group of people calling her The One would be a bit odd. It is very likely that they no longer recall the details of their God. Some may have even mistaken Cultivation or the Night Mother for it. Not much different than Vorin often speak of the Night Mother as if it is of Odium.

Given they lack religious texts, and the don't even treat it as a religion the stories likely have been corrupted over time. The One just really doesn't fit with Cultivation. I would guess this is Autonomy or a new shard altogether.

27 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Brandon's confirmed that it can steal things but he hasn't given us any idea what, and that using it for hemalurgy would be really really wasteful. 'Like using a nuclear bomb as a paperweight' was his exact way of putting it.

I mean why use it as a spike? It would be much more efficient to just use it. Even if it is a small amount it would be better to alloy it with another metal to become strong in a single power rather than damage your spirit web stealing a single attribute.