Fatikis

I think Ati may have been pushed over the edge by his imprisonment. Do we know how long he was imprisoned for? Well over 1000 years. Most people break down in under a day of isolation. That isn't even including the fact that Ati was betrayed by his friend.

We weren't just seeing what Ruin needed to be. We were seeing an extremely mentally unwell man wielding Ruin. I feel bad for him. Of course that is what he became with what Leras did to him.

22 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

But everyone is forgetting about the spren.

Spren are not that useful. The majority are unlikely to take sides in the situation. They are also bound to their planet. The first battle probably wouldn't take place in the cognitive realm. The first battle would be an invading force from one side or the other. The cognitive realm is very unknown and it isn't likely that either party will try to hold it. They will hold the perpendicularity which is much easier.

On 6/1/2018 at 9:46 PM, Calderis said:

The e biggest difference in this battle to me is, and always has been, access to power. 

Metalborn of any variety can use metal from anywhere, and metal doesn't noticeably degrade over the course of times that it would matter. 

Scadrial's powers are available to them on Roshar, and it's actually possible that some varieties of spren would bond with Scadrians. 

Rosharan powers are ridiculously difficult to take off world, and the only way for them to gain Scadrian powers is lerasium or hemalurgy. 

For Roshar, this is a perpetual defensive battle. 

While I agree with this a Radiant is far more powerful than any misting or Twinborn. There is not access to Mistborn and Feruchemists.

Scadrians can easily invade Roshar with the lower gravity. Rosharians are barely going to function on Scadrial.

The average soldiers on Scadrial would also be far better equipped than Roshar. Scadrian soldiers have pretty advanced guns. Roshar is still working with barely medieval level technology. The fights wouldn't even be fair. You'd have the average Scadrian easily taking out 4-6 Rosharians.

You also have the problem that no one knows how to take spren off world. Which would mean Radiants invading would lose access to their surges.

Roshar stands no chance of taking over Scadrial. Scadrial would have a fair to moderate chance of taking over Roshar.
 

23 hours ago, Gancho Libre said:

Think about it.

He isn't. There is no plausible scenario in which Kelsier could be Trell.

9 minutes ago, Gancho Libre said:

Think about it some more. You'll see I am right.

Nope. I see you are obviously wrong. I suspect you are either trolling or on drugs.

Quote

Who else would hate Scadrial for the paradise that it is (comparatively) unless... it was still run by a hierarchy?

First Scadrial isn't a paradise. A small section of the planet is near paradise. Most of the planet is barely habitable. Trellium is a Godmetal. Kelsier is not a shard.

3 hours ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

Wouldn't Scadrial have to be set in Era 1 in order for this to be truly fair? I believe they have weapons such as gatling guns and explosives in Era 2, (not to mention Souther Scadrialian technology) so I don't think Roshar could feasibly stand up to such technology, even factoring in fabrials and shard plate, given their more medieval weaponry.

Also, can we assume that Roshar has more Knights Radiant, or are we limited by only the people currently living in each era? I.e is it only Dalinar & his Radiants + OB time-frame Roshar vs. Wax & his allies + Era 2 Scadrial?

It isn't about a fair fight. It is about putting the two timelines as near each other as possible.

A war like this would be hard to "win". Probably both planets would find it near impossible to occupy the other long term.

Transportation.
You have to transport troops through perpendicularity bottlenecking movement. Here Roshar has a small advantage. We don't know the numbers but some Radiants would have access to Transportation.
Transporting supplies. Roshar has an advantage. Soulcasters will minimize the need for large scale transportation. However you will need a large number of gemstones to power these. Easy if you are on Roshar. Difficult on Scadrial. Scadrians have access to trains and cars. Roshar has access to lashings which could help speed up transportation as the cost of investiture.
 

3 hours ago, RShara said:

It could be slang. Or it could mean what it sounds like. To Slam, really well. As in, she's really good in a fight

It also could be some sort of investiture usage. Slammer sounds a lot like terms used for Twinborn. Not saying that Cultivation is a twinborn, but that it might be in reference to pre-shattering investiture.

I don't think the name will matter much to us. The nickname Slammer probably gives us more information than her actual name. Even that doesn't give us much to work with.

14 minutes ago, Gasper said:

Right, but most of the other shards have invested in a planet, which means they are less powerful. The only one that could even come close to the level of power that Odium has at his disposal is Harmony, and he is basically a child compared to Odium in terms of experience. It's the whole Vin vs. Elend situation. 

In terms of a single being holding power he may be one of the strongest, but I doubt he can wield more power than Autonomy and the avatars who seems to be the most active in discovering untapped investiture.

It is unlikely he managed to not invest in the planets where he has shattered shards. Which would mean he invested in a number of planets. He most likely invested in Ashyn also.

I agree that Odium is not the real threat, but Odium is not a good guy. Odium is not policing other shards and does not care. Rayse was never a good guy and the influence of Odium sure isn't going to make him act in a way best for others.

The real threat is either Autonomy or some sort of great filter attracted to investiture.

12 hours ago, Honor's Radiance said:

What if Hoid is effectively the cognitive shadow of Adonalsium, but somehow has a more complete physical form than, say, the Stormfather? It'd theoretically be possible since he existed before the Shattering.

This doesn't really make sense. If Hoid didn't exist pre-shattering he could theoretically be a shadow of Adonalsium. The fact he existed pre-shattering means he cannot be this.

Quote

Yeah, I have to say it doesn't seem in-character for Hoid to actually take up the mantle of Adonalsium himself rather than slyly groom someone else to do so and do all the work to make the mechanics possible. I would be more surprised if he weren't trying to reforge Adonalsium or something similar than if he were, but I'm not certain it's as simple as a power grab, else why would he have not taken a Shard to begin with? (Especially if, as someone suggested, it were possible for him to take and hide it without exactly bonding to it and becoming influenced by its intent.)

It is unlikely Hoid could take and hide a shard without bonding it. That is a lot of investiture the only way I see it could be easily moved is by taking it. More than likely Hoid was aware of the shardic intents and did not want to be corrupted by them. Similar to Odium now. I can see Hoid taking up the power to try to gain enough power for his goal. I don't think his goal is to become Adonalsium but that level of power might be necessary.  

Quote

Dalinar is an interesting speculation. Certainly if some Rosharan human were to become the next Adonalsium, a Bondsmith would make sense. Or perhaps, at the very least, a Bondsmith's power is necessary for the process. We have, after all, seen in Oathbringer

The powers of the Bondsmiths work on fundamentals of the cosmere. Dalinar can manipulate connection which may make it easier to take a new shard. It wouldn't be necessary as others in the cosmere have similar abilities.

Quote

Spoiler

that Odium tells Dalinar he has the authority to bind Odium to the proposed contest of champions specifically because Dalinar is a Bondsmith. Apparently there is something about the nature of the Bondsmith that enables a person to bind even Shards (or Vessels?). Certainly, things seem to be shaping up to make it a possibility that Dalinar acquires the power to bind Splinters of a Shard back together to reforge it. And perhaps it should not be surprising that humans might possess this possibility through the various happenings of Cosmere history since they apparently originate on the same world as Adonalsium in the first place.

I agree that I would find Hoid participating in the Shattering unlikely. He seems so far to be the type of person to give advice and then roll his eyes when no one takes it. I suppose that'd be an altogether appropriate personality for a god figure, but I still don't think he wants to be Adonalsium. The one way I'd buy him participating would be if the Shattering were in part Adonalsium's idea, even if it was not a self-caused event.

I could see Hoid participating. There were events unfolding that we do not understand. WoB is that Hoid kind of agreed it was necessary. Hoid is not a good man. Hoid has said he will watch the world burn to accomplish his goal. The goal which seems to primarily be vengeance.

When Kelsier told Vin she had a lot to learn about friendship it set events in motion that drastically altered Vin. When Vin meets Kelsier in the cognitive realm she tells Kelsier that he has a lot to learn about love. If done well this interaction should drastically alter Kelsier in a similar way. That and Kelsier was permanently altered by holding preservation.

I find it very unlikely Kelsier would be the serial killer. I do think we are meant to believe that it could be him.

We have three shards that have made a huge impact on Roshar. We have three potential bondsmiths. Seems pretty obvious to me that for some amount of time there was a peace between the three gods on Roshar. The Bondsmith order to balance this peace. 

Quote

Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns!

-Collected: Chachnan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Irali descent.

The Stormfather was pissed about what humans did to to The Sibling. Humans probably turned on it because it was of Odium. That doesn't mean it was evil, but I imagine it was more along the lines what Odium pretends to be. Passion. That is why there is such a strong passion influence in Vorinism. Even many of the orders of knights seem to be link to Odium. 

34 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I was wondering why there was a lack of Rlain in the second half of oathbringer given that the other squires got quite a bit of coverage and according to Peter Ahsltrom this was intentional on Brandon's part.

I believe that during his absence, Rlain has made contact with surviving listeners on the shattered plains. He will be key to uniting the humans and parsh people similarly to Dalinar uniting humans together. If the third godspren is in urithuru then there is a real possibility that Rlain becomes a bondsmith. If the third godspren is slumbering as the storm father says he is then maybe Rlain's efforts will awaken it similarly to Syl finding Kaladin.

What do you guys think? Any theories on who/where/why is the sibling?

It is plausible that Rlain could become a bondsmith. Personally, I think the third sibling is of Odium and will be bonded by Moash. Rlain to me seems like a good candidate for bonding The Nightwatcher. 

10 hours ago, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

*Shrugs* All Intents are open to interpretation to varying degrees, and I'm less concerned with the actual name of this Intent and more the general direction of its Intent. But Serenity isn't synonymous with apathy, which is more in line with what you're describing.

Serenity isn't apathy. What I'm saying is that someone that represents true serenity would not hide. As you say they'd want to experience the universe. Death is part of the universe and while they would not actively seek it they would not fear it enough to devote themselves to actively hide from it. 

Right now Harmony is in an awkward position as a new shard where the intents haven't overwhelmed his personality. He does not act as Harmony, but instead acts as Ruin and Preservation. So much as to calling people his preservation and his ruin. His every action should be harmonious instead he is trying to play a balancing game with separate intents.

You do make a fair case for Harmony and Serenity being different enough to be separate shards, but I still do not think Serenity would hide. 

3 hours ago, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

My best guess for this Shard is something like Serenity, or possibly Tranquility. Note this is NOT the same thing as Peace as an Intent, because I think a Shard with that Intent would not be as likely to just want personal peace for itself, but would be influenced by that Intent to meddle in mortal affairs and spread or perpetuate peace throughout the cosmere. But Serenity is a different matter, and a more introspective Intent.

Sounds too much like Harmony to me. Seems like the ultimate serenity wouldn't care about possibly dying and therefore wouldn't hide.

On 5/24/2018 at 9:31 AM, Ixthos said:

I like the idea of an aluminium casing :-)

On the topic of hemalurgically spiking the machine, I definitely think it would be possible, but I also think it might be a little more convoluted than that. Putting aside that I think feruchemy and hemalurgy might be used to store a portion of stolen traits in a way that doesn't decay, a spike will still retain at least a minimum charge indefinitely - something which raises questions about if you take a single spike, break it, and then spike someone with both parts would the hole be bigger, and thus let a soother control them?

To spike something it would need a spirit web. We've had it confirmed that you could not spike a tree. A level of sapience is required. So to spike a computer it would have to have to be an AI. I do think that if a spike was in a sentient computer it would not be subject to hemalurgic decay. I'd guess it isn't the blood itself stopping the hemalurgic decay but the connection to the spiritweb. 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Can plants have Hemalurgic properties?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

...As I have it in the notes right now, no. I could change that, but for right now, no. There's just not a way to get it to work, right now.

On 5/24/2018 at 9:31 AM, Ixthos said:

I think it would be a little like what happened in Secret History with Kelsier getting the campfire to burn. A spike with the trait from the mental region might be able to manifest that idea, if the part in the spike thinks of itself as something that thinks. Make it work in the cognitive realm like the camp fire or the fortresses walls, and maybe wire it up to the other component, and the spike will function as a processor, not having to be spiked in, but simply sitting attached by wires to the other components. Feed it power, make it think of itself as something that thinks, and wire it to the rest.

I think a route similar to this may work. Essentially feed a spike or a metalmind enough investiture enough to develop limited sapience then using that metalmind or spike to create a computer in the physical realm. 

On 5/24/2018 at 9:31 AM, Ixthos said:

On the topic of the Cognitive realm, I also wonder if it might be possible to lay down cognitive cables, so you can wire to machines together in the cognitive realm and achieve a form of wireless communication while still using wires.

I'm sure this would work. It isn't really wireless then. It is just wired in the cognitive realm. Seems like just a more complicated than wiring in the physical realm or just using normal wireless technology.

38 minutes ago, robardin said:

If you could literally make a lookalike Lifeless of yourself, wouldn't you?

By cutting my own head off? Definitely not. Not any more useful than a normal lifeless. Maybe actually less useful.

Quote

And I really wanted to share that image of TLR taunting someone, "Whaddya want, my head on a platter? Here, have one. I gots plenty. HAHAHA I CANNOT BE KILLED, I AM GOD!"

In general putting others heads on platters works as a better deterrent than putting your own.

y tho?
Seems like there is a near infinite number of better ways to fake your death.

6 hours ago, Ixthos said:

One issue that has been bugging me about the traveller excerpt is it doesn't make sense when one considers the letters.

• Hoid was on Sel before he was on Scadrial, as the events of Hero of Ages take place after Elantris
• Being on Sel, Hoid likely knew that Aona and Skai were dead
• Thus Hoid, when on Scadrial and seeing Ati and Leras die would know that at least four were dead
• When he talks with Frost, he only mentions Ati and Leras
• Frost indicates that he knows, and that he has been watching
• Logically, Hoid would conclude he has been watching everywhere and so already knows about Aona and Skai, and doesn't mention them to Frost
• Three hundred years later, he sends a letter pointing out that Aona and Skai are dead

 

The easiest solution would be the writing could be changed, or that Hoid could have been reiterating to Frost about events he might not have been watching at the time, but it still doesn't make sense.

Aona and Skai died long before the events of Mistborn Era1. Ati and Leras were a recent event that were directly applicable to Hoid's point. Hoid assumed Frost was unaware of this because it was so recent.That the shardic intents are dangerous. The message seems to be that if Ati turned bad imagine what a bad man with a bad intent might do (Rayse/Odium).

The letter is reinforcing the point that Odium is dangerous. It is a last ditch effort to get Frost involved in the conflict. Rayse seems to have some beef with Frost. 

32 minutes ago, RShara said:

Sorry, this made me snicker

 

Yeah. Kelsier would never go hide somewhere. His idea of Surviving involves making sure he's the top dog.

Damnation you auto correct!

I'd say it is unlikely Hoid's quote is referring to a shard. He is being tongue in cheek.

On 5/20/2018 at 11:16 AM, The Watcher said:

i strongly believe that either Kelsier has picked up a shard himself, and is just limiting himself to hide, or is strongly associated with one. Brandon’s term to allow “survive” to associate with this shard seems to great of a clue, so I will stand by Kelsier either having a shard or getting one in the near future. If he really didn’t want us to think about Kelsier, then he would have corrected Seonids terminology.

btw I’ve enjoyed this discussion.

I don't think he has had much time to go find a shard. First he was stuck as a cognitive shadow. I assume it took some time to discover how to connect him to a body. Next he spent quite some time being The Sovereign. Kelsier isn't the only person trying to survive. It is pretty clear during the events witnessed in BoM that Kelsier is not a shard. He has a physical body with a spike. I'm sure if he was a shard he could tether his body without a spike.

My current hope is that Sazed realizes having two opposing shards in a single body is worthless, and that he decides to split his power with Kelsier. Giving us Harmony and Discord more stable shardic versions of Ruin and Pressurization both being mixes of the powers.

Also I'd like to point out Kelsier does not often hide. The man faced down The Lord Ruler and battled Ruin. Hiding isn't very Kelsier.

9 minutes ago, RShara said:

That's the point. It's heavily implied, but Brandon's Aes Sedai answers never directly say "Yes, he used the bead to become a Mistborn."

Most likely, yes, he did do that, but Brandon's been very cagey over it, probably because he enjoys trolling us ;).

My point is that it is foolish to think Hoid has done anything other than the obvious without great evidence. There is pretty heavy evidence Hoid has taken the Lerasium. There is no evidence to the contrary. As such we should assume that he has taken it.

2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

 

Quote

 

1 hour ago, Stark said:

So a potentially sensitive question.  Stormlight healing is in large part due to the person's sense of self, to their Identity.  Given enough light, the healing process will bring the person back to health in accordance with their Identity.  This is why it does not heal Kaladin's scars, he has not yet fully divested himself of the slave who deserves to be punished for failing his squad.  Or [OB]

  Reveal hidden contents

Why Renarin cannot heal Rysn.  She was too long in her current state and it became part of her Identity.  She views the permanence of the injury as part of her, and therefore there is nothing for the Stormlight to heal.

But what about someone whose Identity has never matched their physical self?  I ask from a position of ignorance on the majority of the subject, and I do not aim to offend.  If I do, I apologize, it is not my intent.  But what I have been led to believe is that in some, if not many people who do not identify with the either of the binary gender options, or who identify as the other binary gender, have self identity concerns that are not easy to resolve.

 

In Cosmere terms, if someone Identifies themselves as a certain gender, either one of the non-binary genders, or as the gender they were denied at birth, would Stormlight healing help their body align with their Identity?  Would Stormlight be able to help someone born as a genetic man or woman and transition them fully to the gender of their Identity?

Without getting to far into risky territory. I think it depends on the kind of healing. If I remember some healing is based on cognitive aspect. Some is based on the spiritual aspect. I suspect that a cognitive aspect over time could slowly help you align to your preferred gender.

Spiritual healing however is going to align you with your ideal self. I suspect that would be the self which you were born. I think this would maintain the sex you were born. I'm not saying trans individuals are wrong about their sex. I'm saying that maybe the ideal spiritual self was is born a genetic sex but identifies as the other.

Do we know how Stormlight heals? Based on the remaining scars I would assume it is cognitive based healing.

37 minutes ago, Farnsworth said:

Maybe it’s his old master, the one he named himself after?

That is actually my current theory. I think his master may have taken up the power of Adon. After relinquishing the power I think Odium killed him.