AbsentKeeper
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Posts posted by AbsentKeeper
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10 minutes ago, Oversleep said:
You realize that those citations mean specific chapter and the link to the summary of that chapter is only for sake of convenience?
Those specific ones are chapter citations, and thus they are fine. You do have to double check stuff from the coppermind sometimes, as it tends to have stuff from the MAG, WoBs quoted that aren't very definitive, and other questionable claims at times.
The coppermind is wonderful, it does have it's issues though. It was the source of my brass-duralumin mixup not too long ago in the GenCon thread, because they have the table listed with the metals as they appear in the MAG, for example.
@FiveLate I wouldn't stop using it as a source, but I would suggest checking the refrences. Most of the info there is good though.
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I, for one, am very optimistic about the movies! Brandon said in an interview (which I now can't find...) that they had read the entire canon of the Cosmere before they approached him to talk about a deal, and that makes me very hopeful for the films.
I'm not sure about the choice to start with WoK, for the same reasons that others have stated, but it does include quite a few very impressive visual elements to play with on screen, and it's a good indicator of the Cosmere at large. Everything; from the spren, to the chasmfiends, to the Highstorm and the landscape itself are perfect fodder for today's beautiful CG, and the plot lends itself to a more epic movie adapation. Mistborn, however, is very dark by comparison, it doesn't include very much 'visible' magic, and would probably come out more like a fantasy action movie on screen. Honestly, I would have gone with Warbreaker first, it seems like a good middle ground.
The screenwriters for the WoK adaptation are the ones who worked on 'Saw', which I don't see as a bad thing at all. The actual plot of the movies may not have been that strong, but they have Brandon's words to work with this time, and they did quite well with visual devices and obscure forshadowing in Saw, which I think will be helpful for WoK.
Of course they won't be exactly the same as the books, but as long as they don't make the common book-to-movie mistake of leaving out the wrong things for time reasons, I'm very hopeful that we'll at least have a good place to shove our friends into the shardpool, if not a stellar motion picture.
My only real concern? Who in the Storms is gonna play Hoid?!?
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1 hour ago, Dreamstorm said:
In terms of the Mistborn novellas in AU (11th Metal, Allomancer Jak and Secret History), when can I read them and not spoil future Mistborn books?
My original plan was to finish the first Mistborn trilogy (right now I'm so addicted, but I've heard the second and third books aren't as good?)
A lot of people didn't like the second two Mistborn Era 1 books as much as the rest, but I loved them, personally.
As for novellas, you could read the 11th Metal any time after where you are, but I would wait for the other two until after you finish Era 2.
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1 hour ago, Flash said:
I am so confused how entire nations were destroyed by these desolations. What we've seen just doesn't seem enough to cause the utter destruction of a civilization's roots. Even giant stone giants don't seem... destructive enough. I feel like there is something more to the desolations that we haven't seen very much of.
There is definitely more that we haven't seen much of yet. In one of the first visons that Dalinar has in WoK he fights against something called the Midnight Essence, and one of the radiants that saves the whole town from being slaughtered by them refers to them as one of the Ten Deaths. Presumably, there are seven other creatures just as destructive as Thunderclasts, Essence, and the Voidbringer Parshendi.
Edit: Its also possible the Parshendi don't even count in that number, so maybe eight more?
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1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:
By the way guys, do you think our beaver might be known as Deaths pet, since it will spiked and look scary, just like Death aka Ironeyes, aka Marsh?
Only if we were to give it eye spikes for steelsight. That is Marsh's signature look, after all.
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13 hours ago, Calderis said:
Well, in all three of those instances, "vibrant" is seemingly used as a means to attract a spren that is capable of a bond that is more than normal for their race.
Not sure if we're on to something, or just reading to much into it.
I think it's worth noting that 'vibrant' doesn't always refer to color or vibrations, it can also be used to mean 'exciting' or 'full of energy and life'
If we look at those definitions, it makes a lot of sense that 'vibrancy' would attract spren, whether it be to humans or to Parshendi.
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10 hours ago, Andy92 said:
Lightbringer? I haven't gotten around to reading them personally but I've heard some good things.
I have really enjoyed the Lightbringer series (so far, the last book isn't out yet) and Brent Week's other series, Night Angel. They kind of have the same feeling as the Cosmere, story wise, just maybe not quite as deep.
The hard magic system in Lightbringer is also very 'Cosmereish' to me.
I would also recommend all the books by Jim Butcher, although the first couple Dresden Files are a little sloppy compared to his later stuff, they're still excellent, and they hit more on the worldbuilding side of what I love about the Brandon (in a more traditional magic setting).
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On 8/8/2017 at 0:18 PM, Kalleth said:
I'm also waiting on Aether of Night, and don't know where to get the prose White Sand (help with that too?) but as those are ancillary, I'm not sure how much they matter with canon theories.
if you're still interested in getting White Sand, its available in the newsletter that you can sign up for on Brandon's site. It may not be relevant for theorizing, but I just finished it, and it's actually one of my favorite cosmere stories now.
Edit: Realized a few minutes after I posted this that you already know this... Oops? Might point someone else the right was I guess.
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18 minutes ago, 17th Splinter said:
Couldn't the Rosharans inability or difficulty to see breath auras be because they aren't as invested? In warbreaker everyone is born with a very large amount of breath right? On Roshar however most people would be little more than drabs. So aura suppression plus largely uninvested people equals no visible aura
Only the Returned naturally have a large amount of breath, though 'normal' people on Nalthis are more invested than the average human. A drab is significantly less than the average person though, and the people on Roshar are naturally healthier because they are somewhat invested by the highstorm, making them more invested than average as well, so I do not think this is it.
QuoteQUESTION
In the last panel we talked a lot about people from different planets using magic systems on other planets, one of the things I’ve been thinking about, we’ve been thinking about, talking about Breath, and people being born with Breath, is that something specific to Nalthis or do people on other planets have Breaths as well?
BRANDON SANDERSON
Good question and that is a Nalthian thing. Now, everyone in the Cosmere to an extent has Investiture, the Nalthian Breath is part of what everyone has and then a little extra, plus the ability to share it around. So a person who gives up their Breath on Nalthis is actually going below what a normal person has. But a normal person on Nalthis has more than somebody - so if you were for instance to pick a world like Sixth of the Dusk, where there’s not a Shard in residence, and you compared them to a Nalthian, Nalthian has an Investiture advantage over them. When they’ve given up their Breath, they have an Investiture disadvantage.
QUESTION
So we’re not Drabs?
BRANDON SANDERSON
So we’re not Drabs. That’s exactly it. We’re not Drabs.
Have an upvote anyway though, because it was a good thought.
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On 8/26/2017 at 2:07 AM, Yata said:
If I don't remember wrong (i have to write this fastly and then go out), Calderis posted a WoB about the Shardblades as possible Spikes if they were not already "full" of Investiture.
But here I think we are starting to mix many topic in a single one, so probably it's better to ignore my point and maybe I will start a new topic somewhere else.
I posted that one, we started talking about nicrosil instead though.
This thread has been going all over the place, I wouldn't worry about it. I half think Calderis should rename this thread "Deep Realmatic Crazy Speculation"
Edit: You actually did....
Edit again:
This is the WoB in question:
QuoteHEROWANNABE () Can an infused Hemalurgy spike be affected by Allomancy—steel pushes and iron pulls? Or does the charge interfere with the Allomancy much like a persons body would?
BRANDON SANDERSON Anything infused (regardless of the world or magic that infused it) is resistant to magic. So you'd have a lot of trouble pushing or pulling on a spike, unless you had access to a boost of some sort to overcome the resistance.
THEOFFICETROLL So, Nightblade would be resistant to steelpushing? Good to know ;-)
HEROWANNABE My friend and I asked him something like this at a book signing, but for some reason it never seemed to make it onto 17th Shard. We asked if a shardblade or Nightblood could be used as a hemalurgic spike (i.e.: two different investitures of magic). Brandon said that yes, in theory you could do that, but objects have a limit to how much investiture they can hold, and that it could be argued that things like Nightblood and Shardblades are already "full"
Emphasis mine.
This is actually one of the things that started to lead me toward the idea that Hemalurgy had a different focus in the first place. I only wish that it was verbatim, rather than secondhand.
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3 hours ago, Oversleep said:
IIRC atium Mistings are naturally occuring (save for the mistfallen which were switched with cadmium/bendalloy Mistings).
You are correct. This WoB seems to suggest that there were plenty of Atium mistings in the Final Empire.
QuoteSPORKIFY (18 OCTOBER 2008)
How did Inquisitors find Atium mistings?
BRANDON SANDERSON (20 OCTOBER 2008)
They spike the drinks at one of the nobility's balls with trace amounts of Atium, then cause a bit disturbance. (Often, the Inquisitors themselves arriving will do it) and burn bronze and watch for brief pulses. The body will burn metals instinctively if it can, which has been shown quite often in the series. This is also how they get a lot of their secret information about who is a Misting and who isn't. It's not a perfect method, since you have to watch for Copperclouds messing things up, but it is effective once in a while.
Any time an obligator who is not a Misting joins the Ministry, he is unknowingly given a larger chunk of atium and then forced into a series of rituals that will drain him physically and get the body to react and burn the metal. This was how Yomen was discovered.
I also just like this one, because it gives so much more information than most.
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13 minutes ago, Calderis said:
Yeah. But it would be far more complicated than that I think.
Let's use the speed example. Let's say you have human speed stored to be able to move 25% faster than normal.
Because this is a spiritual effect, your body would physically change to be able to move that fast, rather than you just moving faster as you are. But it would only change the physical aspect to incorporate that ability, so you'd need to tap the appropriate amount of mental speed to react quickly enough, and the amount of strength needed to supply the new muscle structure, and the senses to physically process stimuli at an increased rate of motion.
It would be incredibly complex. Someone who actually figured this out though would be terrifying.
I agree, I just think that it would be so incredibly complex that they'd never be able to use thier powers instinctively the same way that someone using conventional metalminds (let alone an Allomancer) could.
I think that a very skilled nicrosil ferring might figure out, at most, a couple applications well enough to actually use them safely. The complexity alone though should prevent anyone from ever becoming too overpowered in practice.
All that is without considering twinborn though, let alone *gulp* a nicrosil compounder.
Now I have this crazy thought in my head about a Nicrosil University on future Scadrial, where they have whole courses of study dedicated to teaching people to use specific applications of nicrosil Feurchemy without killing themselves.
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19 minutes ago, Cowmanthethird said:
Edit: Perhaps they just don't have safeguards either way? They might tap too much, as well as store too much, because they are storing something more specific?
7 minutes ago, Calderis said:I don't think so. I think that with Nicrosil the wider variety probably also negates the inherent protections. And some things I think you just couldn't. Like body heat. Your heat is a product of physical functions, not the spirit. Same with your weight.
Hmm... The senses are purely physical processes two... But they'd have a spiritual source... Same with strength... I... Oh dang this may turn into a separate topic I make in it's own right. I think I just figured out part of how the rest of Feruchemy works.
So what's the difference between storing the human strength in your spirit, and storing in pewter? The spiritual aspect.
In pewter your only storing the physical result of the investiture in your spirit, but in nicrosil you store the source. So yes, storing and tapping human attributes would make you something akin to a full feruchemist, but you be constantly twisting your very nature.
Nicrosil is scary. If you knew how bleeder made those chimaeras you could store and tap accordingly to become that monster. I'm gonna think about this for a bit.
This is pretty much what I was thinking, I really need to start proofreading and making sure I got everything I wanted to say before I post it, instead of editing nearly every post with more thoughts afterward.
I agree that there are a few things that probably aren't spiritual in source, like weight, and the point about constantly warping yourself is very valid. I was thinking more of the direct consequences though. For instance, normally when you tap speed, your reaction time increases as well, so it seems likely that your reaction time also decreases when you are storing in steel. Reaction time isn't a direct effect of the speed your muscles move though, so I wonder if storing human speed in nicrosil would allow you to tap physical speed without that slight touch of mental speed that it normally has (to disastrous consequence)
This would essentially put a cap on what a nicrosil ferring is capable of, since it would be a lot less intuitive to draw out a mix of 95% physical speed and 5% mental speed from your nicrosilmind than it is to just tap steel.
Alternatively, they probably can't store mutiple things in a single metalmind and choose which to pull out(like a coppermind). It would instead be more like a tin ferring, where each subtype requires a sperate metalmind. I'll admit that I like the idea of nicrosil ferrings returning the old Terris style of being covered in different pieces of jewelry, though thiers would be all nicrosil.
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14 minutes ago, Calderis said:
I didn't notice this edit the first time, or I would have mentioned this then (hooray for unfocused discussions) but tapping a power seems to have protective mechanisms, like reaction time being enhanced so speed doesn't kill you, or not being crushed by your own weight. But storing doesn't seem to have those safeguards. You could kill yourself with your own Feruchemy pretty easily if you didn't instinctively keep yourself from doing so. I'll include this whole WoB because it's interesting, but the relevant section is how storing 20% of your strength feels like much more.
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#71
Hmm... That's very interesting. I don't think I've seen that WoB before, but I guess in that case it would come down to what the actual difference is between 'human strength' and whatever it is you store in pewter. If they are the same thing... I don't like it at all, because, as I said before, that basically makes a nicrosil Ferring a full Feruchemist.
Edit: Perhaps they just don't have safeguards either way? They might tap too much, as well as store too much, because they are storing something more specific?
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22 hours ago, Cowmanthethird said:
I can agree that its possible to store the human attributes that Hemalurgy can steal, because they are (presumably) the parts of the spiritweb that are infused with the innate Investiture that makes us function as sentient beings.
I still say that it would probably be incredibly dangerous to even attempt though, and I don't know if it will ever be used in practice.
For example, if you stored only a small percentage of your human strength, its possible that your heart wouldn't be strong enough to beat, or you might store too much human intelligence and memory and forget how to breathe.
This might be a problem that we run into as nicrosil ferrings become more common, they might discover that they can do things that don't have the magical protections of storing strength in a pewtermind, for instance.
Edit: Note that the above is based on the idea that when you store strength to the utmost of your ability in a normal pewtermind, your innate human strength is still there, and is what's keeping you from dying of heart failure/collapsing under your own weight/ect. I could be totally off with this assumption, but that's how it works in my head.
Edit: I'm honestly a little lost on how we got to this topic. Did something about nicrosil go against my theory or are we just talking about all kinds of crazy stuff now? If so, I have an Excisor theory and a god command theory that have got to go somewhere
If we've run out the 'Stormfather' discussion, do you have any thoughts on what Oversleep and I were talking about? Storing human attributes with nicrosil? I'm curious to see if the potential dangers of pulling investiture directly from your soul vs storing the excess from your physical body makes sense to anyone else.
23 minutes ago, Calderis said:And I'm doing the same, which is why I ended my post the way I did. It's entertaining talking about this stuff, and seeing other people's viewpoints, but there's definitely points that it gets to where it's like "I can't really explain why I think this"
Unfortunately, I think most Realmatic discussion hits this point eventually if you go deep enough.
All that means is that we need more starvin' Cosmere books!
Edit: Another possible discussion inspired by @Yata's post.
What do you guys think of the WoBs that suggest that a Shardblade could be used as a Hemalurgic spike, if it weren't full, when all the evidence seems to say that the same is not true for Allomancy and Feruchemy.
QuoteHEROWANNABE () Can an infused Hemalurgy spike be affected by Allomancy—steel pushes and iron pulls? Or does the charge interfere with the Allomancy much like a persons body would?
BRANDON SANDERSON Anything infused (regardless of the world or magic that infused it) is resistant to magic. So you'd have a lot of trouble pushing or pulling on a spike, unless you had access to a boost of some sort to overcome the resistance.
THEOFFICETROLL So, Nightblade would be resistant to steelpushing? Good to know ;-)
HEROWANNABE My friend and I asked him something like this at a book signing, but for some reason it never seemed to make it onto 17th Shard. We asked if a shardblade or Nightblood could be used as a hemalurgic spike (i.e.: two different investitures of magic). Brandon said that yes, in theory you could do that, but objects have a limit to how much investiture they can hold, and that it could be argued that things like Nightblood and Shardblades are already "full"
Emphasis mine. This is actually one of the things that started to lead me toward the idea that Hemalurgy had a differenf focus in the first place.
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11 minutes ago, Calderis said:
For him (and I believe the Nightwatcher as well, and whatever the third Bondsmith spren is) her is why I disagree.
The natural laws of the magic centered around bonds, especially symbiotic bonds, is grown out of the nature of Roshar itself interacting with the investiture of Adonalsium (as this is a world whose systems, ecosystem, magic focus, and native life, predates the shattering.) for it to have developed as it has, centering around the use of ambient investiture in the form of stormlight, Adonalsium had to break off the splinter that is the Stormfather before life existed on Roshar for evolution to take the path that it has there.
The system relies on the Stormfather to feed investiture, but he predates it. The rules that govern that system are a production of investiture interacting with the shardworld, and so by being present there, he can work within the system, but he can't be fully constrained by it as he predates it.
At this point I'm just spouting feelings so I'll stop.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying, I just think that the rules (caused by the Investiture interacting with the planet, like you say) would affect the Stormfather as well, from the point that he started residing on Roshar in the first place onward.
I think we are gonna have to wait and see what information we get about what the Stormfather is actually capable of though. I'm just speculating based on what makes sense to me.
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9 minutes ago, Calderis said:
I don't don't see how he can completely bound by the rules of a system that couldn't have been formed or function without him.
His role as a Bondsmith spren is well within that system obviously, but he is able to do things outside the system. He has to be, he's existed longer than it has.
I don't necessarily think that he is bound by all the rules of Surgebinding (to name a system), I think that the rules that bind Surgebinders probably stem from the ones that already bound him.
It's logical to me that the causation goes the other way, because, as you said, he predates any other use of stormlight.
Edit: What this means to me is that the Stormfather should be the example of the most basic rules for all magics on Roshar, not that he is outside of them.
Edit again: Except maybe the old magic, if it's all Cultivation.
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13 minutes ago, Calderis said:
@Cowmanthethird the Stormfather was one of those initial Adonalsium spren. He's associated with Honor now, but he has always been the source. There's no Stormlight without him. Period.
I dont disagree with this, I just don't see why that means that he's outside the rules? All he's doing is dumping Investiture into the physical realm, just like he's been doing since before Tanavast's Shadow merged with him, and like he was doing before Honor's Investiture ever touched him.
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1 hour ago, Calderis said:
Yes, Stormlight predates the shattering as do the storms.
There is no "natural" form of stormlight. That's my point. All Stormlight comes from the Stormfather.
The entire Rosharan ecosystem, and all of its investiture requirements fully rely on one massive splinter feeding Stormlight into the world.
The "natural" form of stormlight is trapped in the Spiritual Realm.
I say that stormlight is the 'natural' form of investiture on Roshar, in the same way that breath is the natural form on Nalthis. Not raw investiture in the spiritual realm, as a Shard has it, but the natural form in the physical realm, you could say.
There were spren and Parshendi on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation showed up there, so presumably there was also an invested storm, even if all stormlight comes from the Stormfather now, he's still just holding investiture and dumping it out through a natural process (a storm) so I don't see how that is outside the normal rules. A human surgebinder can also hold stormlight and breathe it out into the wind, just like the Stormfather does on a much larger scale
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37 minutes ago, Yata said:
I didn't said that Old Magic doesn't follow Realmatic Rules, I said as it is not a magic system that it has not to follow the magic Systems' rules.
Ahh, I think I just misunderstood what you were saying. I was referring to a 'magic system' as any system at uses Investiture according to Realmatic rules.
Really, the only use of Investiture that I don't consider a magic system is the direct power of Shards themselves, since they seem to be able to do pretty much whatever they want as long as another Shard isn't in the way.
I wasn't implying that all the systems have to follow the same rules, that would make the cosmere a very boring place.
Edit: This isn't really even a cosmere issue, but rather one from the fact that I've read a lot of non-Brandon, soft magic books. Because of this, 'magical phenomenon' has different connotations for me than 'magic system' does. More semantic issues, but I just think of the second as involving a lot more 'science'. These are the kind of misunderstandings that happen when I get on the Shard still half asleep
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17 minutes ago, Calderis said:
Well, it's not a system. It's the name given to the way one spren, one massive splinter of a Shard, has chosen to interact with the world.
She's confirmed as on the same level of spren as the Stormfather, and he is literally the source of stormlight.
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1177#12
For splinters of that magnitude, I don't think you can constrain them under the same rules as apply to mortals.
So? If the metal has an allomantic effect it should be burnable. If it has separate investiture placed inside, that investiture should be treated no differently than that instance.
If Sazed had stored in Atium and handed it to Vin, do you think the result would have been different?
As for the Nightwatcher, personally I believe that she should be still be mostly constrained by the same Realmatic rules that govern magic when used by a human. The highstorm is essentially just the Stormfather leaking massive amounts of Investiture in the same form as it naturally occurs on Roshar (since it is confirmed that Stormlight predates the shattering)
By my logic, the old magic should still have a focus, an original source (probably directly from Cultivation), and rules than govern what she can or can't do (curses are neurological).
[Edit: I forgot a point: I don't know whether it would be different had Sazed given Vin Atium instead, that's why I didn't draw any hard conclusions from it. I do believe it's possible that it would make some kind of difference though, because of the fundamental difference between god metals fueling themselves, and regular metals pulling from Preservation.]
If I'm missing the difference, please inform me, but I though the only difference between a magic system and an 'investiture based phenomenon' was human control. Shades on Threnody, for example, are a phenomenon because its naturally occurring, but they still have mostly the same rules.
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9 hours ago, Yata said:
I think we are mixing together some indipendent aspects.
First of all, the Old Magic is not a Magic System so try to make it fit with the Magic Systems' rules we know is probably a good way to screw all, then about the VoidBinding (the famous third Roshar's Magic System) we didn't see it yet (unless it is showed into OB's material, but I didn't read it) and therefore the Listeners' Forms of Power are not Voidbinding (again try to fit others phenomens with the Magic Systems' rules could be useless).
I have to disagree with you here. The old magic may be strange and different from the other three Rosharan systems doesn't mean that it doesn't follow rules.
What would be different about the old magic that makes it 'not a a magic system'? The only difference I can think of is that it doesn't require a stream of investiture, just a one time change, like Calderis said, but that is definitely still magic, and should still follow all the rules that the other systems have to.
Edit: @Calderis a couple things that are worth noting, I think:
When Vin tried to burn Sazed's metalmind, it was pewter, not a god metal.
Also, I always found it strange that she sensed his power at all, even though she couldn't use it, since she was not a Feurchemist.
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8 hours ago, The Sovereign said:
I think the reason Nightblood is so large is more mundane (not necessarily the weight though). He is proportioned for a Returned.
Well, part of my point was that a smith wouldn't have made it bigger only for that reason, if he knew what he was doing. More reach is only helpful if you need the range (like fighting chasmfiends), otherwise it makes a weapon awkward and unwieldy when used against a normal sized opponent.
Basically, I'm saying that if he was made bigger just for a Returned, it was done by someone who didn't know how to design a sword.
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9 minutes ago, Yata said:
You could (with Skill) manipulate your Connection to your birthtime to make your Spiritual Age into an acceptable range.
I stand corrected. Now that you mention it, I do remember Brandon saying that you could do that.
Edit: It has been implied that Marsh is still using Atium though. Maybe he is just helping Harmony burn up his excess Ruin.
As for Cadmium, yeah you could do that, but I consider that more like forward time travel than immortality.
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
in Cosmere Discussion
Posted · Edited by Cowmanthethird
@The One Who Connects I'm just going to tag you here, so I don't have to quote the whole post 17 times.
I agree with everything you said here, I was only dismissing Sel as evidence that there can only be one possible focus per planet, since it's Shards are splintered and mingled.
This is probably the best explanation I've heard for this yet, but it still doesn't explain why pewter spikes are compatible with eight types of Investiture, while the others are only four each (as far as we know.) I know that you can say that it's because they're both physical quadrants, but its still twice the capacity of anything else we've seen. That still bothers me, but I might not be satified on that point until we get a canon answer.
I understand how this type of thing could be frustrating, but do I think that there are a couple things that are generally accepted by the community that probably have Brandon snickering behind his hand.
As for the 'focus' issue in particular, I'm sure its been beaten into the ground, but if we still don't know, then we still don't know. Like I said before, people had a ton of good reasons to think the Sun orbited the Earth for a really really long time.
I did read this, and I don't see how it goes against anything I think. The bit that you quoted was a very short version, admittedly. We talked about this a good bit in the next couple pages though (see talking about storing stuff from the spiritweb)
As for this point (I know I pulled it out of order, forgive me), I think you just misunderstood what I meant by 'type', probably my fault, I couldn't think of another word.
What I meant in my head is whatever the next classification down from a system's focus is.
Like, if Allomancy's focus is metals, steel is one 'type' of that focus. Likewise, if Forms are the focus for The Dor, then Aon Rao is one 'type' of that focus.
The original argument (which I stated a few times that I'm very skeptical of now) being that Hemalurgy uses bindpoints as its focus, with the metals acting as modifiers do for Aons, determining which power is stolen (I think Calderis summed up my thoughts on the heart bindpoint thing pretty well) or what effect the particular investiture has on your spiritweb when you're spiked. For example, as Calderis said:
You could fill a spike with human strength and do hundreds of different things with it, or you could fill that spike with one of three (seven?) other things and do nearly anything with it. Bindpoints however (not for certain, just as far as we've seen) have a one to one correlation with the Hemalurgic effect. Kandra spikes, for instance, are placed in the shoulders no matter what metal they are, or what bonus they give, because the 'blessing' is a modifier, with the real effect being sapience.
Finally, on the point of Hemalurgy not being a metallic art: Like I said, it wouldn't be completely inconceivable for Brandon to refer to it that way because that's the in world knowlege, but I already agreed that I don't think he'd be that sneaky.
Thanks for finally joining in
. I was kinda surprised when you didn't show up earlier in this thread. Let me know if I missed any points, I tried to leave out the ones that other people got to while I was typing.