Beatsmorn

I had one job...

Can somebody kindly post all the Oaths of Knight Radiant that was spoken in Oathbringer with no additional comment, when he/she finishes the book? <3

Come on, from a first book she's portrayed like person who embodies like all the virtues of Willshapers, she was pretty important to the plot and she still has so much potential for interesting story. I don't believe Brandon would kill her like this, he's not George R. R. F*ing Martin. We'll see soon, won't we?

The part when Venli noticed something weird going on with her body. U know, when spren associated with KR started flying around her.

Roses are red Violets are blue I can't rhyme Eshonai becomes the Wllshaper I don't think she's dead. In that case, the ending of the scene wouldn't make any sense in terms of storytelling. I bet she will be healed in highstorm and then there will be cliffhanger of her trying to not drown. And in next chapter we will see that she Elsecalled by accident. I can bet my money on that. [CRAZY THEORY] Even if she's dead, she may be not gone - maybe we will get afterlife chapters from Eshonai. We know from WoB and text that something is wrong with Roshar' afterlife - for example, Cognitive Shadows on Braize or Soulcaster' Oathbringer interlude. [EVEN CRAZIER THEORY WITH NOT EVEN HALF-VALID PROOF] Unmade are made of collective consiousness of dead Listeners' and next 3 books will contain several chapters of Eshonai screaming of torment inside Re-Shephnir.

Jasnah was legitimately stabbed through heart, but it is not lethal for Surgebinder as long as he has stormlight. And no offence, but what you say sounds so ridiculous xD I just can't stand it, you guys make one dumb theory after another completely missing the most basic explanation. Occam's razor anybody? Once again - no offence, i know what waiting for 3 year for a next book can do to a person <3

I thought Voidbringers are just voidspren. There was a quote from Diagram, paraphrasing: "when Taln weakens, voidbringers will be able to cross barrier between worlds", and I can't think of anything other than voidspren, as we know Unmade was on Roshar whole time.

So u can't quote a quote, what a surprise xD Listener Song of Spren 9th Stanza The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us our forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can’t provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men. 10th Stanza But it is not impossible to blend Their Surges to ours in the end. It has been promised and it can come. Or do we understand the sum? We question not if they can have us then, But if we dare to have them again

I think Lightweavers' Truths are less about morality and more about self-awareness and development, and that they not have that much moral limitations than other orders. They were also said to be most individualistic order, so i don't think this would be like 'all Lightweavers do the same thing' Also, why did you post that quote? I always understood it like that: - H&C & humans come to Roshar, bringing sapient spren (Higher Spren?) - Listeners start to make forms of power with spren - Odium comes to Roshar, Surgebinders emerge - Higher Spren realize they gain much more form a bond with Surgebinder than Listener - Higher Spren rapidly begin to break their forms with Listeners I'm not sure if my timeline is right, but that's how i understood it.

Yeah, he said that. He said also that KR possessed powers which were NOT direct outcome of two powers reacting. And I hate Voidblades ideas, it just make Voidbringers look so blank and repetitive. I reaaally hope Fused will end up more interesting than that.

Also: - what the heck's a voidblade and why people talk about it in this tread? - why do everybody still think Radiant Perks - or Resonances, if u prefer to call them like that - are result of reaction between Radiant Surges, even after Brandon kinda denounced it?

So, anybody thought that Fused was mimicking Kaladin powers? No? It's just me? I just don't like the idea of Fused using 'regular' Surgebinding, u know what i mean. Besides, do u think they were Listeners in smokeform? 51th Stanza Smokeform for hiding and slipping ’tween men. A form of power—like Surges of spren. Do we dare to wear this form again? It spies. Crafted of gods, this form we fear. By Unmade touch its curse to bear, Formed from shadow—and death is near. It lies

Except it really isn't, 10 essences/Surges are more like cultural thing that grew because of how magic on Roshar works. 10 may be sacred for honor, but it doesn't mean all the Roshar is built around 10, and they are certainly more spren types than 10 (Aiman interlude) No offense though

Eshonai, but everytime I say "Eshonai becomes the Willshaper" it gets 10% louder

Just one thing, Odium wasn't part of original Oathpact by WoB.

I get it. I've read these WoB before, i just interpreted them differently. I think I'll just wait for the Oathbreaker for answers, I hope those powers will be delved more there. It will be pretty hard to wait for autumn.

As I tried to tell you before, we don't know which abilities of KR are effect of Resonance, and it is highly improbable that they all are Resonances. [EDIT] I mean, Perk KR has is not always related to their Surges and Heralds or Spiked Surgebinders could have different or none of them.

I love what you wrote, amazing sum-up. Just one thing. Of course all Heralds are insane, but in their insanity it seems that their Divine Attributes are kind of twisted. Nalan hides his injustice behind the face of law follower, Paliah destroys when upholding creativity and so on. We still don't know what is Resonance. It was said that it's a minor reaction affecting the way you use Surges, and i highly doubt that all of KR powers come from Resonance.

Shin are really a mistery. I think their belief is in some way tied with Taln, but not necessary directly. In Shinovar there are no spren. Also highstorm fades when reaching Shinovar, and this place was chosen to preserve Heralds' weapons. For some reasons Shin consider stone as sacred, except stone in Urithiru, which was not sacred for them. Even more interesting, Urithiru is told to be sacred and protected from the Voidbringers by the rest of the world. I'm not sure what it means, except one thing. They are REALLY weird thing going on with Investiture in Shinovar. Makes me think of some Investiture-suppresing fabrial or spren. Once i thought the gods of stone Shin worship are spren of Stonewards, now I don't think that they are any spren in Shin at all. *EDIT* The only thing that I can think, when thinking about worshipping stone, are thunderclasts. The only stone that Shin are allowed to walk is the one thunderclast cannot transform (Urithiru). Sounds suspicious, doesn't it?

HonorbIade is just a weapon. Heralds had other powers and limitations beside that, Oathpact or direct connection to Shards for example. Honorblades give no restriction, but Oath Radiant speaks do, and Nale is forced to find a legal way to kill somebody. We do not know, if Heralds had same resonances as Knights Radiants. Some quotes from Roshar "Words of Radiance" seem to deny that. But i get your point. If honorblades were created as a weapons, then Surgebinding was probably built in them intentionally, as a tool. And if Heralds didn't have those Perks, that they are not connected to Divine Attributes. I've got an other idea. Being a Knight Radiant requires directly two thing: a connection with spren and speaking an oath. Sprentype determines Surges that you are able to use and some other abilities, where your Orders Oaths - and Ideals, that Order follows, determines your other abilities. This Ideal could be related to Divine Attributes, but i think it's more like Platonic Ideal - Truth, that is reflected in words and actions of Radiants - and kind of in divine attributes. Due to the nature of the bond, your progression with understanding the Ideals changes your Spiritweb to reflect them and grant you abilities, much like passive effects of Breaths or Dak'Hor abilities, as long as you are bound to a Splinter. Honorblade gives you the first part of the deal, but i think they are different that spren, artificial and will grant you only Surgebinding abilities. Heralds were granted with something more, that gave them great power and immortality, but bound them to preserve their Ideals and forced them to obey Oathpact. Probably it was the breaching of the Oathpact that caused they to degenerate.

We do not know much about Divine Attributes, but we know that Surgebinding creation was accidental, and Honor wanted to give Heralds something to help them with their role. At least Nale seems to be in some way restricted by them. I think they play a role in both Heralds and Knight Radiants identity. Every order has its own Ideals to understand and Oaths to speak, and it seems they are connected to attributes related to them. Perhaps on spiritual level? I think that Radiants' bond changes them in spiritual realm, granting them powers associated with Ideals that Order/Herold represents. Ideals like Platonic Ideas, which Brandon said to be inspired with. I don't take this theory as basis. I just say it's cool. I'm just trying to prove that not every Radiant ability other than Surgebinding is effect of so called "Resonance" "Dalinar's and Renarin's visions are incredibly similar actually. Both are involuntary and unable to be resisted. Both involve visions. Both have an element of compulsive actions, as Dalinar moves and speaks in other languages and Renarin has an almost hypergraphic need to write during his visions, despite that Renarin probably hasn't ever written before this. They also appear to both be tied to highstorms, since they happen at the same time. Perhaps most telling is the fact that Dalinar seems to think that Renarin's future-sight is his own up until the reveal, and that he simply can't remember it happening. That said, there are differences. Dalinar sees the past, Renarin sees the future. Dalinar is completely unaware of the real world while in the midst of his visions. Renarin seems to know and be aware of what's happening to him, even though he can no longer control his body. Dalinar seems to act out what he's experiencing, Renarin writes." I think this is just amazing comparison that FeatherWriter made, but that's more behind this. On Surgebinding graphs we see both Bondsmith and Truthwatchers opposed to them, dividing graph on two parts, upper one, representing Orders which spren/bonds are of honor primarily, which Heralds are male, and lower one, which spren/bond are primarily of cultivation, and which Heralds are women. This would make the Bondsmith as connected mainly with Honor, and Truthwatchers as connected with Cultivation. Cultivation sees future, Honor sees past. This just melds so amazing with Shards' Intent (Honor - preserving tradition, ideals, oaths, Cultivation - maintaining progress, life, beauty). We don't know Oaths of Truthwatchers, but Oaths of Bondsmiths are totally in line of it (Honor binds, Bondsmith binds and unite people). Tanavast also states that Cultivation is good in seeing the future. Looking for holes, Windrunners bind with honorspren and Edgedancers bind with cultivationspren, and spren of Bondsmith is quite unique (Stormfather was of Honor, but Nightwatcher is probably of Cultivation, if not Cultivation herself), so one may say that if it was the case, they should have visions instead. However i think connection to Shard is based more about the Oaths and Ideals that order represents, than type of spren they are bound to. So, Bondmiths, Windrunners and Stonewards would be of Honor, Truthwatchers, Edgedancers and Lightweavers of Cultivation, and rest would be their combinations. IMO this fits perfectly. It can be that this is just a misinterpretation, and Dalinar and Gavilar visions were one-time event, sent by Honor to prepare humanity for Desolation, but i think that indead there are pretty solid similarities between them and Truthwatching. I think this guy interpretation of graph is way better than mine, but you have the catch. Both Orders would grant precognition abilities based on their Shard Intent.

I read theory of resonance, but i don't agree with it at all. Those abilities are not of resonance, they exist due to nature of their spren and divine attributes and are not necesarily the blend of their power. Yes, some of them are tied to Surges, as Skybreaker guiltsense to Division, Lightweaver influence on others to Transformation, or Elsecaller direction sense to Transportation. I think Elsecallers also have similar abilities to influence other that Lightweavers, as seen on how others react to Jasnah. We can track other respounding to attributes or spren nature - Windrunners Strength of Squires to Leading divine attribute and nature of honorspren (honor binds), Skybreaker skill to Just attribute and Shallan memory to Cryptics` ability to recreate what they heard and their very nature. We know that Surges create some synergy between them, similar to what we saw on Scadrial (Wax F-Iron A-Steel synergy), and they probably have some cognitive and spiritual aspect, but you're going too far. I think that works more like Windrunners regarding their Lashings as one power, despite they use both Gravity and Adhesion surge. WoB to back my words. 21th and 16th. *EDIT* I meant that i don't agree that Renarin foresight is Resonance, not that Theory of Resonance is wrong. This guy made an awesome theory which i think explains great what Resonance probably is.

It was said in the books that surgebinding is more like side-effect of nahel bond, and being a Radiant gives you more than this. Lightweavers have affinity to art and perfect memory. Windrunners make their squires able to breath stormlight, if not surgebind. Skybreakers are referred as being able to sense if somebody lies or is guilty. Why wouldn't Truthwatchers be able to foresight? Personally, i think visions are considered as Voidbinding in Alethkar because Voidbinding allow you to foresight even better or Odium can manipulate your visions, similar to what Ruin did on Scadrial.