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cometaryorbit

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  1. cometaryorbit
    Now I am wondering about the timing and means of human spread through the Cosmere. We know Scadrial was created with its people by Preservation and Ruin, therefore post-Shattering, and that Rosharan humanity came from Ashyn presumably a bit more than 7000 Rosharan years ago (and the Iriali apparently arrived later). But were planets other than Yolen inhabited by humans pre-Shattering? Threnody was apparently already inhabited before Ambition was killed, and that planet didn't have a resident Shard to create humans there... But was there worldhopping on the scale needed to settle a new planet that early? Ishar is stated to have discovered how to travel between worlds, so it wasn't known at least on Ashyn... Are people on Sel, Nalthis, etc. direct descendants of Yolish humans, or creations by their resident Shards based on Yolish humans as a model?
  2. cometaryorbit
    I am undecided on this for several reasons: - Clearly Gavilar misunderstood things massively, so did the Stormfather actually lie, or did Gavilar just misinterpret? We know the Stormfather "hates being misquoted" but Gavilar didn't discuss his plans with anyone... maybe if he had, the SF would have realized what was wrong. - Is it actually possible to make someone new into a Herald? If not, then Gavilar's SF did lie. - We know a bond makes spren act 'more human', but we haven't really seen whether the same spren bonding to different humans acts differently. If that happens, that could explain some of the difference between how the SF acts here vs. with Dalinar. If not, a fake SF looks more likely. - this is an early draft, and some of the wording / italics vs caps speech might not be final.
  3. cometaryorbit
    Per RoW, the Fused are about 7000 (Rosharan) years old, or about 7700 Earth years, and Odium was dealing with Ashyn humans before he created the Fused. So likely more like 8000 Earth years, meaning about 2000 years between the Shattering and Odium's arrival. EDIT: Aharietiam was about 4500 Rosharan years before Stormlight arc 1, and the Fused are about 7000 Rosharan years old. So the period of Desolations would have lasted about 2500 Rosharan years ... about 2750 Earth years.
  4. cometaryorbit
    I think there are two different things going on here: Investiture 'pooling' in the Physical realm, and the mist -> solid Shardblade transition. I think Fuzz/Leras/Preservation's "like dew collects" is talking about the first. This is mostly liquid Investiture, not solid like a Shardblade, but it is pooling in the Physical Realm at a Perpendicularity. Normally the Investiture belongs in the Spiritual Realm, but it is collecting in the Physical in this case. I think that's what "some of it permeates, some distills" means. It starts in the Spiritual, permeating everything on Scadrial. But some 'distills' into the Physical, appearing as Mist/Ruin-mist, Well-liquid, or atium/lerasium. The "Spiritual version of humidity" might be what causes that 'distilling' to happen- a certain Investiture threshold that creates a Perpendicularity that naturally causes Physical Investiture to form. It might also determine the state, at least liquid being more concentrated than gas. Atium can probably be melted by conventional temperature, though, since malatium is an alloy of it.
  5. cometaryorbit
    Post RoW, I got the idea that they were probably made by the old Singer form of Stoneshaping we see. The old pre-Odium singers were the Dawnsingers, so the Dawncities could easily have been their cities. OTOH, the sheer scale suggests that they and the Shattered Plains were probably Dawnshard related. Not that those are mutually exclusive, Dawnsinger Stoneshaping might have been boosted by a Dawnshard.
  6. cometaryorbit
    The Oathpact was between the Heralds and Honor, the Heralds offering themselves to imprison the Fused, so Odium couldn't have broken it - he was never a party to it in the first place. The Stormfather says that the Heralds bound the Fused as Odium is bound by Honor and Cultivation, so it appears that Odium was imprisoned first and the Oathpact was established later (modeled on that?). That's how I read it - the act which destroyed Ambition occurred there, though the Shard didn't completely fall apart until later, elsewhere. I think it's probably like how Preservation/Leras describes himself as being dead in Mistborn: Secret History during the time of WoA, though he doesn't 100% die until later, in HoA, when he talks to Elend and then his body falls into the ash. Or Honor/Tanavast's drawn-out death around the time of the False Desolation/Recreance: he kind of lost his mind before being 100% dead.
  7. cometaryorbit
    Could be, but I think Vin was so new to the Shard that she could use the power without a lot of Intent limitations. (Though apparently Rashek couldn't use the Well to kill Kwaan, so there are probably still some limits... OTOH using the Well might not be quite the same as holding the Shard itself.) I do think there is likely a Dawnshard Command of Remain or Be or Exist, something like that, linked to Preservation, Autonomy, etc. But I don't think it (or any Dawnshard) is on Scadrial (at least as of Era 1).
  8. cometaryorbit
    Yeah, I don't think the timeline works out for Odium. This is future cosmere, but probably not 1700 years post Stormlight. And Odium's been trapped for something on the order of 7000+ years, so he shouldn't have been available.
  9. cometaryorbit
    It's at least implied the fortress was built by using the Cognitive aspects of stones and bringing them into reality in the Cognitive, the way Kelsier gets his staff, logs/campfire etc. - though I suppose that could be Kelsiers incorrect assumption. The Dor pipe seems to be used to keep the stones from "decaying" the way Kelsier's campfire does, however. They are definitely sustaining themselves somehow by drinking liquid Dor, yeah. My point is that it seems to be used only to sustain the Ire and their fortress- not to power any Aons or other overt, non-technological magic. (The Connection orb might be ultimately powered by, or distilled from, the Dor pipe - but it doesn't look like AonDor.)
  10. cometaryorbit
    While ironsight/steelsight is possible without Hemalurgy, Inquisitors learning it so quickly might well be a specific Hemalurgic thing- perhaps part of what makes them a "Hemalurgic construct" or species rather than just a human with spike-granted powers. I imagine they still need to burn metals to see, though I don't know if it is explicitly stated - still, Kar's PoV late in book 1 calls it "a command of Allomancy so subtle, so detailed" and I think it wouldn't be an Allomancy power at all without burning metals- it'd be more like Blessing of Awareness senses for a kandra, or Blessing of Potency/koloss strength - a pure Hemalurgic power.
  11. cometaryorbit
    Hmmm, good point. Though I think they're asked to choose very young... but perhaps that custom was decided on by the first post Catacendre koloss generation, and Harmony likely wouldn't interfere. It didn't occur to me that the koloss as a society could choose to stop asking future generations to take spikes, or at least stop exiling those who refuse, and become a society of or partly of koloss blooded humans.
  12. cometaryorbit
    Replicating spike charges through ettmetal - more spikes without needing more deaths - is a really intriguing idea. I am really curious about Bleeder/Paalm's Hemalurgy telepathy in Shadow of Self. Is that a trellium spike thing, or something due to their prior Connection (when Paalm was Lessie) and both of them having the soul-hole from Hemalurgy? EDIT: also, the possibility of new Hemalurgic constructs/species. By the HoA epigraphs, TLR/the Inquisitors weren't able to design any new ones in a thousand years... yet somehow Paalm figured out how to make chimera. Does the Set or other Trell followers know more?
  13. cometaryorbit
    True, but TLRs Soothing power was way more than double Breeze's. He was probably affecting hundreds of thousands in that execution scene (I think at least all the adult men of Luthadel, presumably excluding the very elderly or infirm, were required to be there) and Breeze is I think generally hundreds. There is a reference in HoA to Soothing Station Soothers affecting 'hundreds, even thousands' so Breeze might be able to manage a few thousand. OTOH some of the Soothing Station ones might have been Savants. So I think we are looking at *at least* 100x number of people affected, & likely more like 500x. But .... -Allomantic strength may not be linear with number of people affected - Elend controls tens of thousands of koloss in HoA, and Vin probably controls at least 10k at the end of WoA (originally there were 20k in the attacking force, minus however many died in the battle). But since they stay controlled, I don't think this scales the same way as Soothing humans - they seem to take control piece by piece.
  14. cometaryorbit
    Hmm, that is also possible since the Dor is in the Cognitive... They clearly have a big pipe of Dor power, but they don't seem to use it for anything except sustaining themselves (their longevity/immortality? Elantrian status? Something like that) - not for overt magical effects. Even if that method could allow full AonDor access, that's still a big limit for a worldhopper compared to Zahel/Vasher or Hoid just carrying Breaths with them, or Hoid being able to use local Rosharan metal to fuel his Allomancy. I am not sure if you could use AonDor with non-Arelon-based symbols; each Selish magic having different effects makes me tend to think not, but if that's the case, Sel would really be left out in the space era cosmere.
  15. cometaryorbit
    Hmm, deathspren makes sense for Moelach, but I don't know how they'd fit the "cousin" for mistspren... but then we don't know much about uncorrupted / un-Enlightened mistspren.
  16. cometaryorbit
    It might be purely human, pre-Thrill. The Alethi have been known for being warlike since the Silver Kingdoms era, and the kind of bloody tactics Dalinar uses were pretty normal historically in societies like this. Roshar has no concept of human rights, except maybe among a few Orders like the Edgedancers, so "war crimes" is probably not a concept they have. Dalinar's guilt strikes me as more personal - I don't think his burning a rebelling city violated any Rosharan- or Alethi-recognized laws of war,, as bad as it was *morally*.
  17. cometaryorbit
    Heralds are powerful Cognitive Shadows so are probably well up there on the Investiture scale (they seem more powerful than Returned - and Zahel seems to confirm this in RoW, saying that Cognitive Shadows that stay dead when their bodies are killed again are the less powerful ones - and a Returned is equivalent to 2000 Breaths). But Tenth Heightening is *way* up there. I don't think we have any way of knowing which is higher, but both are way above Radiants, Allomancers, Feruchemists etc. The Lord Ruler from Mistborn would win in a fight, except possibly against Ishar's Bondsmith Unchained stuff, but not when comparing raw quantity of Investiture.
  18. cometaryorbit
    I agree that more spikes means easier to control, all else being equal, but I think that's offset by both copper Allomancy and inquisitors/kandra being more willful than a koloss. So an inquisitor not burning copper would be easier to control than a kandra, but maybe not easier than a koloss depending on strength of will. But when burning copper that'd be harder. The Soothing would not only have to break through the copper but still be above that threshold level needed to take control. Vin can feel TLR's Soothing through flared copper, but it's diminished. So I think *that* particular area effect Soothing was too weak to control Marsh. I'm sure TLR could have done it with more power though- but he might have had to focus just on Marsh rather than use his area Soothing.
  19. cometaryorbit
    I think greater allomantic strength both lets you burn faster and gives more power per gram of metal. Nicrosil would explain TLR's power, but I don't think the Final Empire had the technology to make it. Maybe TLR made a Nicrosilmind at the Well or something, but yeah, they definitely checked TLR's metalminds after his death (at least to retrieve the atium, Vin mentions it in WoA).
  20. cometaryorbit
    Yes, probably, but that does at least suggest that TLR *could* do it, Inquisitor control isn't a Ruin-only thing.
  21. cometaryorbit
    True, but they do act like there was some mystery in the Inquisitors' degree of loyalty- I think the issue is that, unlike kandra who are raised in their own distinct secret culture, Inquisitors are "promoted" from obligators. I agree they weren't *usually* under TLR's control. Oh, absolutely. We never see anyone other than Ruin successfully control an Inquisitor, so it could be very difficult (say requiring duralumin) even for TLR, not the easiest way to defeat Marsh*. And TLR was absolutely not taking that fight seriously, he was grandstanding and showing off rather than trying to win quickly. *compared to say using f-Steel + pewter to rip out Marsh's linchpin spike. If the original question is why the Soothing that TLR *did* use and Vin felt didn't take control of Marsh, I think it just wasn't strong enough - it's unusually strong, since Vin can feel it through copper, but the threshold for Inquisitor control is probably really high.
  22. cometaryorbit
    Except for its regional limitation. It's super powerful in Arelon, but for a worldhopper who wants to live somewhere else or keep traveling, not so much. The Ire in Secret History don't use AonDor, only magi-tech devices.
  23. cometaryorbit
    Yeah probably. I totally think using lots of Duralumin would be a possible route to savantism for a Mistborn. My only issue is that it probably isn't just a "cumulative total of metal burned" thing or all the older Mistings of metals that you tend to burn very often (like tin and copper) would be savants.
  24. cometaryorbit
    This has bothered me too - when Elend, Vin, etc discuss Hemalurgy right after discovering koloss are made from humans (chapter 40 of HoA, I think) it's said that the control-flaw explains why the Inquisitors were so loyal to TLR, so that seems to imply TLR could and did control Inquisitors - so why not Marsh? That it would reveal the ability to do so is a possibility, but OTOH TLR surely intended to kill Vin - there shouldn't have been any living witnesses. Copper blocking it makes more sense, but then, since Inquisitors probably mostly have that power wouldn't it make control of Inquisitors very questionable in general? Maybe it took TLR's sole focus to control an Inquisitor, at least through flared copper, so he couldn't control Marsh and fight Vin at the same time? EDIT: or since Vin is burning mist when she tries, and hits Ruin's opposed control, maybe it takes so much power to control an Inquisitor that even TLR needed duralumin to do it, and so it wasn't worth it in that fight (since it would have wiped out the other metals he was using)?
  25. cometaryorbit
    I agree it can't be as simple as "total amount you've ever burned" or every older Tineye and Smoker would be savants. And Kelsier's warning / Spook's case makes it sound like it's caused by flaring a lot + burning continuously so the body kind of comes to rely on it to function (at least for metals like tin and pewter, not sure how that works for e.g. bronze which is apparently much milder in side effects). So burning bronze one hour a day for 32 years won't make you a savant, but burning every waking moment 16 hours a day for 2 years might - especially if you flare a lot. But that TLR WoB does suggest there might be some cumulative effect over very long time spans, too.
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