Ciridae

25 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

But I mean, for all we know it could be an in-world Dawnsinger text about the First Desolation. I highly doubt we'll get that information at this point, but you get the idea.

I really like this. At first I thought that it could be a book Venli wrote in the year gap, recounting the history of the listeners. She invented her own script and was telling the Thaylen singers about the listeners at the end of OB, so I figured. But I like your idea much better, I wouldn't want the book to be named after another text written by a main character in the present. I would be pretty frustrated if it were something contemporary. But I would love to see Venli working together with Navani translating old listener texts or songs (if they even have any that are in the dawn chant). 

As for the title itself, I love the sound of it, although I think I would have preferred Song of Secrets just because it sounds like we would learn more juicy stuff. 

The ten orders at a Pizza-party:

The Windrunner is going around checking if anybody is allergic to anything, and warning people that the pizza is very hot. When they get around to eating their own pizza, it's cold. They stare off into the distance, thinking about the many, many dangers of baked dough with tomato sauce and toppings. 

The Skybreaker demands a discount when the pizza takes more than 30 minutes to arrive and checks twice if everyone's pizza slices are the same size. 

The Dustbringer wants their pizza extra, super spicy so they don't have to share with anyone. 

The Edgedancer shares their pizza with everyone, and reminds them that a lot of other people aren't as fortunate as they are. 

The Truthwatcher foresees that they'll have indigestion if they eat too much pizza, but they offer to share half of theirs with the Dustbringer. 

The Lightweaver's first truth is that they prefer calzones to pizza. They also freak out the pizza delivery guy by lightweaving themself to look exactly like him. 

The Elsecaller decides that the logical thing to do is to Soulcast their pizza into something healthy with the maximum amount of nutritional value. It doesn't taste good, but they tell everyone it's brainfood. 

The Willshaper orders a pizza with literally everything on it, then walks around asking if they can try a slice of everyone else's pizza too. 

The Stoneward orders the same pizza they always do, Margherita. They are extremely satisfied. 

And of course the Bondsmith is the one who invited everybody to the pizza party. They order a huge family size pizza for everyone to share. And garlic bread. And mozzarella sticks. Food brings people together. 

11 hours ago, RShara said:

According to Brandon, at the very least, the ending to SA is hidden somewhere in the first two books.

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"Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above."

Not sure what it means for the end of the series but this is what my money is on. 

That said, I like the theory. Could be something Dalinar has to do before reforming Honor. I don't know if it's super likely, but I do think the Honorblades in Shinovar need to be used in the plot somewhere, right now they're just sitting there... 

Well I mean Larkin are just the larval form of the lanceryn. They're basically baby crab dragons. I don't know if as adults they still have wings, but either way, dragon riding Rysn is going to be amazing. 

I really hope we get a pov of someone getting one of Moelachs visions as they die. As an interlude maybe. 

I'd have to go back and check, but I think what Rock mentions is that he met a God coming out of one of the lakes on the peaks, which was actually Hoid coming out of the Perpendicularity. Or do you mean a different scene? Iirc he does mention spren of the ocean in the origin story of the horneaters, but they refuse to help them because humans would just catch them with hooks. But I don't think he ever saw them, they're just part of the story. 

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"Odium rides the very winds, like the enemy once did." - OB Interlude 6

I think Honor probably could have directly interfered in the creation of the Everstorm. The creation of a new storm is something like (Mistborn) 

The Stormfather says the Everstorm was old in design, and there really ist a reason who Odium wouldn't use it if he could. I don't think the Heralds had anything to do with it, their part was just keeping the Fused locked away, I don't see why they could prevent Stormform from summoning the storm. 

We know that Stormform used to be one of the forms of power singers had access to in the past, because Adolin's Plate reacts to their lightning. So even if there had been enough Stormform regals, I think Honor was what kept them from calling it. 

After Honor died, all Odium had to do was wait for Taln to break. The Everstorm wouldn't have been of much use to him before, and humans fighting each other in the meanwhile just played I to his hands. (Again, Mistborn spoilers) 

Do we know how long Aesudan had the gem ingested? As soon as Amaram swallowed it he started transforming. But it seems to me like Aesudan had swallowed the gem long before and was just "activating" it when Kaladin and Elhokar came along. Is it possible to  transform back from the crystal body? I wouldn't think so, because it's messing with your spirit web pretty severely but anything is possible. 

Does anybody have any scenes in mind that could potentially be in the flashbacks? 

I hope we get to see Eshonai's day of first transformation, listener children have been a mystery for such a long time now. 

I think it's pretty safe to say that we'll get to see Dalinar discovering the Listeners in the unclaimed hills. In WoK Dalinar says that they kept asking to see the Alethi maps, so I think he was unknowingly talking about Eshonai who was mapping the area at the time. 

From Gavilar's memoirs we know that he had a bit of a friendship going with Klade (who is also ironically the one who purchased Szeth). And from the OB prologue it seems like Eshonai was pretty close with the Five listener leaders. So we might see more of Gavilar. 

The implication from that scene is that Division is dangerous to people. Malata just burned a table in that scene and Mr T thinks to himself that she could do the same to people. I dont think he'd have the same reaction if it only worked on corpses. 

And I don't think it can be explained by lack of scientific understanding of atoms and molecules. Brandon says the issue for Cohesion is that the surge can't be used on anything invested, saying that human innate Investiture is enough to stop it from working. 

The only explanation I can think of is that Division uses a LOT more investiture than Cohesion.

Mistborn spoilers

1 hour ago, ScavellTane said:

Division severs bonds, Cohesion alters the structure of a bond and Tension alters the strength of a bond.

Right, but shouldn't all of them either be able or unable to affect living flesh? I don't see why one can turn you to dust but the other can't turn you to goo if they all affect molecular bonds. 

I guess it depends on the spren type. Cryptics are just numbers, but honorspren have a Latin or Greek feel to me. Sylphrena, Borea, Notum, Phendorana... 

A lot of the other spren names are just nicknames as well, like Timbre, Pattern or Ivory. Maybe Spark as well. 

Do we think it's possible it'll be a character that hasn't been named? I mean the gemstone can change hands all the time, between new singers or humans we haven't heard of yet, but I think that would be a lot less interesting. Do any named singers come to mind? I dont think Thude or Rlain work. Maybe Khen or another singer from Moash's group could bond with him. 

16 minutes ago, Invocation said:

What makes you think this? He needs a gemheart (or a swallowed gemstone) to bond and singers come ready-made for it. Honestly, my main money is on Turash.

I don't know if a singer gemheart could hold an Unmade. They can't even hold a Fused and leave a singer alive at the same time. Seems like YN needs a live host. 

But I guess the singer could swallow the gemstone like a human would. I don't know, I just don't feel like it would be a singer, just how I don't think Odiums champion will end up being a singer. It's just a gut feeling, a singer probably could bond YN technically. 

I have a small question regarding the differences between using Cohesion and Division on people. 

There is this:

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So far there hasn't been a lot of the Stonewards in the books. Are they going to come forward in the next few?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. One of the reasons I built the structure of the Stormlight Archive the way that I did is I knew it would be easy to overwhelm with the number of magical abilities, and to let myself get distracted by some of them and not do them justice. So I've been very careful, perhaps more careful than I need to be, and when I show like a Fused using a power, I focus more on the ones you know about and things like this, intentionally to keep the reader's attention on what they know as I expand. 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Can they shape stone? In one of the flashbacks they kind of melt it and it becomes sand.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Basically, my original pitch to myself on Stonewards, one of their main powers, I mean, everybody has two, but this ability you're talking about was the ability to grab matter and just kind of, like what if the whole world were clay to you. Not just stone, not just rock, but if you could just pick something up and stretch it, whatever it was, that was my original pitch on that order.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So architects or combat engineers fill that order?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah, stuff like that, but also, like you need to get out of a room? Well, let's mash ourselves a doorway here and step through, or just all kinds of stuff. 

Questioner 2 [PENDING REVIEW]

Can they do that to living flesh?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No. That's the general, the more invested something is the more it resists, and Stoneward powers are highly resisted by things. Even a small amount of extra investiture is gonna prevent them. Like if you stuck stormlight in [an object], say a Windrunner did, a Stoneward wouldn't be able to change that.

source

And then we have this from OB chapter 107:

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"The Surge she used, Division, caused objects to degrade, burn, or turn into dust. 

It also worked on people." 

So the way I understand it both Cohesion and Division work by directly affecting the molecules of an item instead of its representations in the Cognitive (unlike Soucasting for example). So why would one work on living flesh when the other does not? 

Whoever bonds Yelig-Nar is going to be a pretty heavy hitter. I think Aesudan and Amaram were meant to show YN off a bit before someone bonds him for real (read: more than five minutes). For them to really be scary they would need to be far more comfortable with their new form and all of the surges.

On another note, YN was on standby while Odium tried to turn Dalinar into his champion, so I think there was a pretty good chance Dalinar would have bonded YN if he had accepted. 

So who do you think will bond with YN? I don't think it'll be Moash and I don't think it can be a singer. 

I think it could potentially be Malata. 

(Or May Aladar ) 

My favorite theory that I can think of, off the top of my head, was that the Last Legion used to have access to Nightform and knew that the singers would lose their connection to BAM and took on Dullform to avoid Slaveform (by @ScavellTane). 

I don't know who originally came up with it, but the theory that the Set's Faceless Immortals are Svrakiss from Sel is also really cool. 

@galendo I agree with a lot of points you make. Eshonai was my favorite character (and would have been my favorite Radiant too), and I felt the exact same way reading OB. I think I would have preferred Venli as a non-Fused singer villain, WoR made me really excited to see Venli as an antagonist. I just wish the good Venli we got was a bit more proactive instead of just reacting to stuff. 

That said I do really enjoy reading the Venli chapters a lot, and I think that she's a really interesting addition to the main cast.

I'm a little confused though why Brandon stuck with Eshonai as the flashback character after the switch. Eshonai fits the present plot better, but Venli flashbacks sound more interesting. The only reason I can think of why we're still getting Eshonai is that she'll provide a pretty stark contrast to her present day sister as she's trying to become more like who her sister was. But I worry that Eshonai's flashbacks may not be as emotionally impactful as the first three were... I don't need a shocking reveal at the end to enjoy flashbacks, but just thinking about it, Venli and Ulim trying to bring about the Everstorm sounds more interesting than Eshonai wandering around the Unclaimed Hills. 

On topic, my favorite Radiant is Dalinar, but that'll probably change by the time Venli gets to do more Radiant-ing.

I actually like most villains we have right now to be honest. I think Taravangian is an amazing character and I do love to hate Moash. If I had to pick anybody right now it would probably be Ialai Sadeas. She's not all that relevant anymore, but she can still be a thorn to Dalinar and Co, which would be frustrating and not really all that interesting. 

10 hours ago, Invocation said:

My money is on Gavilar having found BAM and that's what was in the sphere he showed to the Parshendi that set that whole deal in motion.

I agree he found her, but I think that what's in the spheres is the Voidlight she was able to grant, not actually Ba-Ado-Mishram. There's at least two black spheres, and I think it would be weird if Gavilar just randomly gave one of them to Eshonai if they contained an Unmade. 

There was a whole thread a while back arguing for Venli and Kaladin, which made some really good points. I also like the idea of Vasher and Jasnah. 

On 12/22/2018 at 6:00 AM, Kaladin Zahel said:

All I know, is there better be at least a Rlain Easter egg in the Eshonai flashbacks.

I think that's very likely. Iirc Rlain mentions her, Thude and Varanis by name. Seems like he is (or was ) part of their friends group. Which I think is really great and definitely not a coincidence. I really hope the next book has Rlain as one of the main characters, maybe he gets the interlude novella, or the format that Moash's chapters were in in OB. Personally I'm very excited about everything Listener related. 

Also he could help with this:

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Is there anything you can tell us about where the Listeners are? From Narak, after they...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. They are still kind of in the area. They have made their way out through the chasms, out onto some floodplains on the other side.

source

About Eshonai's flashbacks, I'm curious as to how they will reveal any incredible things about her, I don't really think they could be as shocking as Dalinar's or Shallan's. Rather I think their main purpose is to complement Venli's character arc. Eshonai is, best I can tell, kind of the archetype of the Willshapers and Venli constantly compares herself to her sister. I think their dynamic thought their lives, and that contrast, could be very interesting when it's read together with post OB Venli. 

17 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

I've always wondered why the surgenbinding chart was called the 'eye of the almighty'.

 

Does Tanavast have double iris mutation?

I think that's basically the knight Radiant chart, the double iris would be the Truthwatchers and Bondsmiths on the chart. 

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

"bring order from chaos" sounds very Willshaper to me, and that fits her as an artifabrian. The whole "Builder" artribute. 

I don't know. It's possible, but the way Willshapers are described I feel like they'd be fine with a bit of chaos. But then again taking chaos and rolling with it and making the best out of it does sound Willshaper-y to me. And I do like Navani as a Willshaper too. 

I think I remember a WoB about spren being attracted to what people aspire to be, and less to what they are like. Maybe in relation to Lift but I may be misremembering. Does anybody remember the one I'm thinking of?