Doc12

Hey uh, everyone?? 10 hours left in the day, and no one's voted except for me? Actions Doc - Followed Fallen Star - attempted to follow, roleblocked Fizz - attempted to follow, lost Qian - found clue, spike Fallen - found boot Mippo - found boot Conure - found boot Striker - found item Akimiko - ??? Alright, so everyone's claimed an action except Akimiko. I'm going to still assume a world where Mint wasn't the one with the gun, and was shot by the gunner, because that world makes it either Fizz or Star who had the gun, rather than the gun being with literally anyone. Hard enough trying to confirm what happened with Fizz and Star, we have no plan in the day to figure out who has the gun if anyone has a chance to have it in the time we have left. So Fizz claims lost, Star claims roleblocked. The roleblock is the easiest claim to verify. It's weird because no one should have tried to roleblock the suspects as there was a plan in place. So far everyone's claimed actions except for @Akimikoisthecutest If Akimiko was the one that roleblocked Star, then Star's confirmed to not have the gun. If not, it's still between Star and Fizz. If Akimiko didn't roleblock Star, then Star is lying. So right now, Fizz9 Through the Living Star There's also the possibility the above people lied about their action, so please. If you roleblocked Star, let us know!

You didn't get anything in your GM PM about suspecting someone following you? Well, in the spirit of getting things moving, Fizz9, defend yourself. We should also get a list of actions again. Doc - Followed Fallen Star - attempted to follow Qian - found clue, spike Fallen - found boot Mippo - found boot Conure - found boot @StrikerEZ @Akimikoisthecutest, @Verdance can you share your actions last night? Which of you, if any, roleblocked Star?

@Conure1243 Can you confirm whether you were followed last night? Also person who blocked Star - please tell us who you are. You've used your one block so there's no use keeping it a secret, and it'll help us clear Star of killing Mint.

@Araris Valerian Does the follow action still take place if the follower dies? Ie mint following Ver but dying the same night? Doesn't discount the possibility of Mint having the gun and choosing not to fire it, but it's interesting. The real mystery right now is who roleblocked Star? Why try and mess with the follow action when we needed to try and clear the suspects ?

Huh. Fascinating. So our options are: 1) Gunner shot Mint 2) Mint had gun and didn't use it Option 1 would honestly be more ideal because it narrows down our suspects. If it's 2 the gun can now be with anyone. For my part I got confirmation that I followed Miss Fallen - she explored upstairs n0.

Verna laughed in delight. "Of course, child!" She regarded K. Tims. Skilled with the toy she had. Intricate patterns with the strings. Right now, she was the one pulling all the strings, directing everyone to their roles. Delightfully bright. Kneeling, Verna offered her the cards. K. Tims sucked in a breath, hand tapping the backs of the cards, hesitating, and then, drew. The card he drew was of a wizened old man, smiling kindly. "The Sage," Verna murmured. "The one with wisdom, who answers questions." She swept into a small curtsy. "The cards see you for who you are, young though you look!" "With joy I hear the solemn sound, Which midnight echoes waft around, And sighing gales repeat. Fav'rite of Pallas! I attend, And faithful to thy summons, bend At Wisdom's aweful seat!" "Oh, and what's this?" A card was in Verna's own hand. An armored figure, knelt in respect. The Knight. Waiting for orders. Verna laughed again. "And I both your shadow and your loyal knight, prepared to follow your designs! Perhaps I should seek a sword!" She reached into a pocket, and handed Tims something small and white. A bird's skull, delicate, bleached. Threaded on a slender chain. "Wear this, young one, and I will know where you are this night." Poem: Ode to Wisdom, Elizabeth Carter Edit: Hey anyone want to spend the night with Verna? She's lonely after her first lover was killed by her died Edit 2: Changed Tims gender

@Through The Living Star @Fizz9

Mint claimed not hero. I can only assume at this point that the hero is deciding they want to shoot the gun, because there's no other reason not to claim hero. If you're the hero, you've already won. You win even if you die tonight. And if you die, it narrows down the pool for the next group. So yeah. Hero to villain arc immediately I guess. I know I just said this in PM, but here so Star sees it to: Striker, Mippo, Qian, Conure, Akimiko. Please declare someone from this list before you have to go for the night

@Fizz9 @Through The Living Star Don't follow someone who's already a suspect. If I or Fizz turn out to be the gunner, all we would have to do is say we didn't get a notification that we were followed, and you'd be the one under suspicion instead. Don't follow someone who is motivated to lie. Pick someone who cannot have the gun.

Verna quirks a smile under her veil at young Tims. "Very well then, Child, I am willing to follow your plan if everyone else is." She looked to Mabel, Patrick, and Luminair. "If all agree to declare someone to follow, I will be @Miss Fallenshadow through the house." "If a consensus is not reached, however," she paused, "I reserve the right to follow my original plan.

Alright, I've thought about this, and Im now asking the Hero to reveal themselves. @Through The Living Star @Frozen Mint @Fizz9 If you're the Hero, you've already won, and nothing can take that away from you, unless you are a Hero with a gun, and shoot the gun. So our scenarios right now are 1) hero doesn't have the gun. That narrows down the pool to 3 people, 2 for me. 2) hero has the gun, but doesn't shoot it - you die, but become the first winner, guaranteed 3) hero has the gun, and shoots it, which is objectively the worst solution because you're lose the hero status and then lose the game when you die. So from my perspective, there is no downside to confirming who the Hero is. If the hero is still alive the next day, we know that they didn't have the gun, and can look at the other 3 people. If the hero dies, then it's a little more complex because it could be 1. the hero had the gun and didn't shoot it, or 2. That they were killed. Still, logically, for the first possibility, the hero could just inform us if they have the gun. For the second, shooting the hero is a dumb choice because it narrows down who has the gun. Does this logic check out? There's literally no downside to one of us four claiming to be the hero? Edit: I suppose I overlooked the world where the hero chooses to shoot themselves in the foot (lol) and shoot the gun while being a hero. They'd be alive and so indistinguishable from the hero not having the gun. But again. That would just be giving up a guaranteed win, right?

Verna wipes Brax's blood off the ceremonial knife on his jacket. She slides a hand across his ruined chest. Finds the pocket that had held his precious deck. "Gambler after all," she whispers. On a whim, she draws. The Eurayle. A sudden vision, seemingly from Brax's memory, of Verna breaking the paralysis of the deadlocked vote, shifting opinions, beginning to advance on him with a silver knife, veiled, angelic, a vision of Beautiful Death, the last sight he'd ever see. "Keep on your mask, and hide your eye, For with beholding you I die: Your fatal beauty, Gorgon-like, Dead with astonishment will strike; Your piercing eyes if them I see Are worse than basilisks to me." Verna sighs. Stoops, pushes her veil aside, and gives Brax one last kiss. To think that after they'd shared a bed, he'd waited for her to explore the house before setting out on his own malicious mission. To be honest, that only endeared him more to her, especially as he lay now, cold. "Well well," she spoke again, quietly. "I have no regrets, darling. I hope you had none either." The gun had not been on her lover's body. Mabel, Patrick and Tims had been among her helpers in holding Brax down. One of them had it now. Blood and paranoia. Verna thanked the house once more, in a whisper. She'd never felt so alive. She couldn't wait to plunge deeper. —------- To the people saying there's no point banding together as a team, I'd argue there is? The point of scenario 2 is for everyone to vote on the gun holder, since then you get a chance to either become the a hero and win no matter what, or get the gun and get to do shenanigans. So everyone should still be discussing and trying to solve who has the gun among us? Edit: poem by William Strode

It would be a good idea except I checked with Araris and following a player will only tell you where they explored N0, even if you follow them tonight. I also thought hey let's just have four players follow us four suspects but it's not going to be that easy. If anyone has roleblock, use it on one of us. That's probably the only actual way you can get information. I don't have the gun, but I'd say that regardless. Edit: the hero role doesn't impact the game as much as I thought Edit: I will say I like Fallen proposing the follow plan and Star agreeing with it. Even though the plan doesn't work, the fact that it was proposed and agreed on is risky when they didn't know following wasn't a viable plan. Edit: this is weird. Right now we have a 1/4 chance of hitting the gun holder, but then depending on the exe tomortow the gun will probably go into a bigger pool of people. I have no strategy of how to solve this at all.

The feeling I'm getting is that they're both village and its a misunderstanding but our GMs have clarified they did not make a mistake, so the fact remains that one of them is lying? It just doesn't make sense in either scenario 1 or 2. What's most likely going to happen is one of them dies today and we exe the other tomorrow, so this just drew unnecessary attention to themselves, especially when Mist confirming Star's exploration at first made me file them both away as 'fine'. An elim team wouldn't want attention like this, much less a serial killer. I've thought about this a lot, and while I was fine leaving it to a tie, I think I may end up voting Mist here. The way I'm looking at this is E!Mist has a a reason to lie, to claim an action other than what they actually did. E!Star literally has no reason to deny that she is cleared. While Mist's arguments seem earnest to me, at the end of it, trying to go for the simplest solution here, its more likely that he claimed an action he did not take and had to double down rather than Star deciding to put herself back in the spotlight in some kind of insane gambit when she was upset about being suspected at all D1. Also, really, we might end up exeing them both anyways, and I'd rather give Star a chance as a new player another cycle to prove themselves. I have evening plans tonight so I might not be back before rollover, so just wanted to get this in. Sorry Mist, no hard feelings This still doesn't feel like the ideal solution but its the one that makes the most sense to me.

So really. Just comes back down to either Mist lied about following Star, or Star lied about not being followed, which is a really dumb thing to lie about >> The fact they're both doubling down so hard on this impossible contradiction ironically makes me trust them more than if one of them had changed their story to make sense.

At the very least, I don't believe in an e!Mist/e!Star team. I didn't confront Star - I was just asking if she had anything she'd want to share, and she brought up the discrepancy herself that she didn't get a notification that she was followed. I then went to Mist and said I caught someone in a lie, and he didn't know what I was talking about until I spelled it out. So I don't think there was communication there. Also, asked you this in PM, but curious re: your reasoning for following me. Why is me not voting for Striker suspicious to you?

Do you think you could elaborate what stood out to you? Yes, it was a PM conversation. Star said Araris didn't say anything about her being followed. I told her I got confirmation, and she said she asked Araris if she would have been told if she was followed. Again, this read as genuine to me, both her relief at someone confirming her story, her saying that she specifically checked with the GM if she should have received a notification, all that. Also @Verdance @Conure1243 @Fizz9 Seconding what Mint is saying here. We make our guesses and deal with the consequences. Every vote is information for the village, and we win by getting more information. It might get you suspected, or even executed, but we solve the game by all putting in our guesses! The thing is, like Mist said, this is objectively a silly thing for an Elim to lie about, as it can be directly contradicted by your target/pursuer. It's also silly for E!Star to put herself back in the spotlight and throw suspicion on the person that was confirming her N0 exploration. This isn't a 'I followed you to the dead person' accusation where one must be elim, its something that Star could have just admitted she was mistaken or Mist could have claimed to have lied about his action. So. Full list of claimed actions. Clue hunters: Doc - Rithmatic defense - unique to 2 Fallen - Jeskeri paphernalia - unique to 1 Star - Voidlight gem - 2 and 3 Mippo - Voidlight gem - 2 and 3 Akimiko - Bullet casing - 1 and 2 Striker - Spike - 1 and 3 Other claimed actions: Qian - found boot Ver - found boot Mist - followed star Mint - followed Doc Conure - did nothing Fizz - did nothing At least one person is lying. I trust Mint slightly more since so far no one else has claimed to follow me. (There's a paranoid part of me that thinks it might have been Dive who followed me and Mint is just lying, but Occam's razor for now) The big discrepancy is whether Mist actually did follow Star. Again. Weird action to pick to lie about. We're still unsure what scenario we're in, but if we are in 2... Still unsure who would lie. Elim might want to claim a scenario 1 clue like Fallen or Striker, or blend in with the 2 claims like Mippo and Star. I think Mippo seems a little clearer since he clarified some misunderstanding about what clue he actually got. Anyone else had any other thoughts?

So I've found an inconsistency, specifically between @Through The Living Star and @Mist. Mist claims to have followed Star. Star says Araris did not mention she was followed in her GM PM. The strange thing is I currently don't suspect any of them. Mist was clearing Star based on the fact that he confirmed she was telling the truth about where she explored. So for Star to now deny that is in some ways actively arguing against her clearing. Star was worried about being suspected, and one of her biggest skeptics gave her a clear, to her delight, but she's now saying she's not actually cleared, which, granted, Star's new to SE, I don't know her experience, but I feel like E!Star would be happy to be confirmed and not investigate further. And for Mist, I floated the idea that he only claimed to follow Star while actually following someone else, but he said he was aware of the rule that people who were followed got informed, and is sticking to his story. I feel like E!Mist if caught in a lie would agree that claiming to follow Star was a reaction test and he actually followed, say, me. So yeah. Weird. I honestly want to believe both of them, but one of them is lying. Scenario guessing Rithmatic defense (Doc) - unique to 2 Jeskeri paraphernalia (Fallen) - unique to 1 Voidlight gem (Star, Mippo) - 2 and 3 Bullet casing (Akimiko) - 1 and 2 Spike (Striker ) 1 and 3 So 1 unique clue from scenarios 1 and 2. I'm ruling out scenario 3s because Dive had a role. So 3 clues that can only be scenario 2, and 2 clues that can only be scenario 1. It's not enough to fully rule out 1. I collected the claims from yesterday again. The only person who didn't claim an exploration N0 is @Akimikoisthecutest Upstairs: Dive, Doc, Ver, Fallen, Middle Floor: Wahr, Star, ____, Fizz, Conure, Basement: Mist, Striker, Mint, Qian Whichever Akimiko claims, the numbers are 4, 5, 5, which means no particular weight (again assuming no one lied) Dive having a role could point to scenario 1 because upstairs villagers are weighted for role, but again, there's a chance he was picked from the entire pool and not the upstairs pool. In conclusion, inconclusive. @Frozen Mint @Fizz9 you guys are the only 2 that have not claimed an action last night. Please share so we can cross reference? Someone will be lying about their night action, so it'll help us all if you share. Right now, still waiting on answers from Star and Mist, but one of them is lying, and unfortunately I think Star makes sense here, as if we're working in a scenario 2 framework where the gun is more likely to go to a ground floor player. I'm sorry, both you and Mist seem very genuine to me, it's just that your stories just don't match.

So the clues so far are Rithmatic defense (Doc, Mippo) - unique to 2 Jeskeri paraphernalia (Fallen) - unique to 1 Voidlight gem (Star) - 2 and 3 Bullet casing (Akimiko) - 1 and 2 Spike (Striker ) 1 and 3 Other claimed actions: Qian - found boot Ver - found boot Mist - followed star Conure - did nothing So 4 clues that point to scenario 2, 2 which are unique and 2 that are shared. 3 to scenario 1, 1 unique and 2 shared. I'm inclined to believe in scenario 2 for now. It does track with the lack of coordination. If scenario 2, then it's likely but not certain that a ground floor explorer had the gun. The people who explored the ground floor may or may not have chosen to lie yesterday about this. I'm going to take a closer look at those who explored the ground floor when I get home from work. EDIT: I was also informed someone followed me last night. Anyone want to fess up to that and confirm my exploration? Edit 2: updated claims

Verna glides through the house like a ghost, candelabra in hand. A dusty library. Bedchamber after bedchamber. A charred room. She'd left Brax in bed an hour ago, and had not crossed paths with another. Suddenly, the house shook, rumbling with something like dark glee. There was a sound like thunder from down the corridor. Verna hurried to the scene, finding... There was no body, which was what she had feared. A lecture hall, thrown in disarray. White dust everywhere - remnants of a great intricate chalk circle, breached in many points. Figures like some madman had drawn crude monsters all across the room. No sign of life except for motes of chalk dust floating in the air. "My my," Verna murmured. "Some kind of ritual, perhaps?" She picked up a nub of chalk, traced it experimentally across the ground. She made a long white streak, but nothing magical. Smiling softly, she put the chalk in a purse, picked up her candelabra, and continued down the hall. ------------------- Went clue-hunting. Found the remnants of a Rithmatic defense, which is unique to Scenario 2. Which is supported by Dive having a role which rules out 3. So if I understand correctly, and I'm paraphrasing my GM PM here, we have a 65% chance of being in scenario 2, and 17.5 chance I just got a clue from a different scenario?

Verna sat up from the bed, black silk blankets draped around her like the dress she'd been wearing. "Drew something interesting, my gambler?" She smirked. "Come now, back into bed with you." "The deaths -" Brax began. "Shhh..." Verna beckoned him again. "The house has claimed one, two. It shall devour another tonight. Far too late to worry now." She stretched, catlike, inviting. "Perhaps the house might claim even one of us tonight, so why not die with one less regret?" Brax stared at the card in his hand. What a striking figure he cut, silhoutted against the moonlight from the window, even though the bedchamber they'd found was in the middle of the house, far from any exterior wall. But Verna did not begrudge the house its little tricks. It had provided a soft bed and silken sheets for the night, after all. The deaths... She'd spoken lightly. But truly. Perhaps later tonight she would put the mourning veil back on, light a candelabra, and plunge deeper into the house, let it charm and open itself up to her questing mind. The mourning would come, the deaths a stark reminder that the rules of the mortal world still held sway. She would explore. She would learn. Perhaps the gambler might follow, or he might not. There was no attachment here, yet. Only the comfort of brief, fiery spark. She smiled at Brax once more, understanding the house. Who wouldn't want to keep one such as him as a pretty little trophy? "Back to bed, darling. Deaths after." ------------------------ Still a waiting game to find out our scenario. Following isn't a terrible idea. I wouldn't know who to start with, though. What floor would people be incentivized to lie about? Also I might be misremembering but I feel like Mint compared the claims and they were pretty even. I'm personally going to be looking for clues. What argument am I making again? I don't really feel suspicious of any one person from the votes from yesterday. There wasn't any real sense of urgency to tie-break. Again, we might learn more from tonight's NK. So it's another waiting game.

Honestly don't know if we learned anything. I don't really see any links forming. Mist is voting with me. No one else went for Striker besides him. Mint likes Mist. Star making Wahr go to 3 votes is noteworthy but also they're a new player so I'm not going to go after them just yet. Dive caught up and gave brief v leans on Mist and Mint, but not Wahr. Decided to vote on someone who was briefly here. Technically might not be a tie depending on if someone has the butler's gift. The other thing I have been thinking is that in standard elim games we look for links, players defending other players or voting on other trains to distract from a leading train. But in scenarios 2 and 3 that's not going to happen. So ties might not be as useful. Doesn't really seem like there's any movements besides Mint moving off Wahr to keep it a tie out of pity. Fizz - 2 (mippo, Mint) Wahr - 2 (Fizz, Star) Mint - 2 (Wahr, Striker) Striker - 2 (Mist, Doc) Mippo - 1 (Qian) Akimiko - 1 (Divergent) Mist - 1 (Fallen) I don't actually want Striker dead. Esp after they just came back. Ah well. I'm switching my vote to Divergent for now. No real reason, just vibes. I think it might just be the multiple posts and looking for the easiest target of Akimiko who hasn't been around.

I started a trend way back in QF78 where I romanced Jo's character (we were both converted elims) and then Coco in LG110 (we were both elims) and I told Mist I'd romance his character next game if we were both elim so Helpful, but you'll forgive me if I'm still wary Note to self: Mint linked to Mist. Wahr has come under fire a lot D1. He tends to gets defensive when voted on D1 which leads to more people becoming suspicious of him. We should have exed him D1 last game though . You were the only who went 'why is it always me' I'd say that's a stronger reaction than most Akimiko since they responded. Let's see. I don't have strong feelers on Mint or Wahr tbh. They had their first evil game (I don't remember Mint's prev games so it's a first for me) so I don't have a strong grasp on their e! play. Not going to vote on Fizz, Star or Conure, and willing to give Verdance, Miss and Mint another cycle to get adjusted on their second game. Between Mist, Striker, Wahr, Akimiko, Qian, Mippo and Dive... I like Mist so far (Verna likes Brax quite a bit) just not willing to actually clear them yet. Dive Akimiko and Striker are pretty experienced but have been busy. Qian Mippo and Wahr have been in thread but haven't said all that much. It's a pretty limited list >> Hm. In the interests of making this interesting, anyone want to join me on starting a different train on, say, Striker? Current vote count. Mint(2): Striker, Wahr Doc(1): Dive Fizz(1): ____/mippo Wahr(2): Fizz, Mint Fallen(1): Mist ___/mippo(1): Qian Striker (1): Doc General questions @Qianweilian are you still voting Mippo? @Akimikoisthecutest who are you gonna randomly accuse? @Divergent any new thoughts New people, remember to vote! D1 we're all just randomly accusing someone so don't be shy! Also we get an exploration action during the day right? remember to put that in!

Sounds like a invitation to find a bedroom to me Wouldn't happen to have "The Lovers" in that deck of yours would you? Sounds like we've got some ideas on how to rule scenarios out. Clue searching, butler's gift , NK. So it's just waiting til tonight. Lot of poke votes so far, no one's really acting suspicious yet. Who hasn't shown up yet ? Akimiko is the cutest how are you? You're the only one who hasn't responded to my PMs. @Akimikoisthecutest

I also chose upstairs for my exploration. As I didn't receive a role and am still a villager, it's for sure scenario 2 Jokes aside, I do think it would be interesting for everyone to share where they explored last night. Won't be of any help in scenario 1, where (14x20%=3) players are motivated to lie, but in scenario 2 and 3 there's only 1 person motivated to lie would lie. One of the actual concrete hints could be the butler's gift. If in the vote count tonight a player's vote counts twice, we know we're in either scenario 1 or 3. The other way is clue-searching. I'm not completely sure of the mechanics between searching the house for clues or items, but from what I understand we have a 65% chance of finding a relevant clue and a 10-70% chance of finding an item (70% for the shoe, 10% for a useful item) It seems like searching for clues for the first couple rounds would be the helpful to determine exactly what kind of situation we've found ourselves in, but not after that. ------------------------------- Verna gasped in delight. Placing her hand on the deck, she closed her eyes. Her slender fingers tapped the cards, before settling on one that called to her. She pulled it. A great crescent moon in the sky, a goddess watching, moon motes like possibilities drifting into the city below. "Art thou pale for weariness Of climbing Heaven, and gazing on the earth, Wandering companionless Among the stars that have a different birth,— And ever changing, like a joyless eye That finds no object worth its constancy?" Verna let out a happy sigh. "What a gift. Thank you, dearest." She lifted her veil, just slightly enough that Brax might catch a glimpse of a pale face and dark lips curved into a smile. "Now, you must name something I might give you in return." (Poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley)