Lightspine

Very interesting! You're right that my theorizing so far has been based on stuff we've seen, which is why I missed dragonsteel, but (unless it's a Medallion like @Calderis just pointed out) this seems a bit too much, mostly because I don't think Sanderson would dump an entirely new magic system into the Stormlight Archive, which is already filled with plenty of magic systems (we've only seen like 4 radiant order's powers in depth, 3 of the 9 varieties of Fused, a couple of ancient fabrials, a bit of the Old Magic, and Awakening, so Sanderson has got his hands full trying to get his readers to follow all of the magic especially since he has a lot left to show us.). That's why I'm still leaning towards Type IV: I think it would confuse readers less, since it's the same system that Nightblood and Azure's sword and it would mean Sanderson wouldn't have to dump another whole new mechanic into the series. Wait, I just saw your second comment, and I realize that we've also gotten "cameos" from Aethers, Aviars, and White Sand so I guess this wouldn't be too bad to include totally new stuff. It would depend on whether or not the chain takes a large role (non 17th sharders probably missed the references to Aethers, Aviars, and sand and it didnt confuse anybody)

Well, Adolin was in that shop.. so he probably would have noticed

Well, if some in-world documents are to believed, Dawnshards are also capable of "destroying worlds" and I think something of this nature would be under much, much, tighter guard. Like, the type of guard they have around Akinah. And certainly it wouldn't be for sale! (Okay, you could argue that the spren don't even know what it is, other than that it is super valuable. I kind of doubt this though, but it's still possible.)

I thought so too, but the Ghostbloods evidently got their hands on some white sand somehow. Perhaps it's opened up a bit since it seems that Autonomy is Trell, and is now attacking Scadrial? We know Mistborn Era 2 is immediately after the first arc of Stormlight Archive so it's possible for the timing to line up.

No, different shop, same market. Although it is a sign of how much exchange has occurred between Nalthis and Shadesmar, along with that lighthouse keeper who asks Kaladin about Heightening.

OH!! I forgot about that possibility, mostly because it hasn't yet appeared in a canon work. That's certainly possible, but I'd be very interested on how it got to Roshar. It seems more likely to come from Nalthis than from Yolin. (In fact, I don't even think Khriss has visited Yolin?) What could Dragonsteel be? Perhaps some godmetal of Adonalsium itself!?

Okay, I found a WoB that the mysterious "long thin silvery chain" that Kaladin sees in a weapons shop in Celebrant is important: (it was worth a thousand broams of Stormlight) So, I want to figure out what the storms this could be. First of all, this thing has to be invested or made of some extremely rare material - there's no other way to justify the cost. I can't think, however, of any rare materials that qualify. A chain of aluminum would definitely have some useful properties, and be very expensive, but on Roshar aluminum is made by soulcasting and therefore it's not particularly rare. (Ex: Shallan's necklace, which she sold for 10 emerald broams I believe, valuable but not nearly as much as this chain.) Thus, I think it's probably been invested. There is really only one example of invested metal that seem to fit this object, and would feasibly appear on Roshar. Let me run down a few unlikely possibilities first though: Metalmind: Highly doubtful, although an unkeyed metalmind may justify the price, I don't see why they would be shaped like chains. In addition, it's highly unlikely such an object made it onto Roshar. Some sort of fabrial: Even the ancient fabrials that didn't require trapped spren required gemstones, a quality not mentioned about this object. Hemalurgically charged: It's a chain. This makes no sense, how does somebody get stabbed by a chain? Odium's godmetal: It seems to be golden, not silver, given the general color of his investure and the color of that knife that Moash used. Honor/Cultivation Godmetal: shardblades are made of this stuff, when spren convert their investure into a solid state. However, shardblades brought into Shadesmar aren't in their metallic state: they appear as deadeyes, like Maya. Therefore, for this thing to be godmetal, it has to be an Honorblade. We do know that one of the Honorblades is missing, that of Talanel. We also don't know if they are capable of changing shape, but it's not completely ruled out. However, it seems unlikely that whoever stole Talenel's blade would let it slip into the hands of a shop-owner. Therefore, I don't think this possiblity is a very strong. The only other possibility is that this thing is (CRACKPOT THEORY ALERT) a Dawnshard (hey, they're supposed to bind stuff, right? And this is a chain, which, you know, binds stuff). But I don't think a world-destroying object would be up for sale in a random store... Okay now that I ruled those out, I hope you guys understand why I think this thing is a Type IV biochromatic entity. Firstly, a chain is a wonderful object to turn into a Type IV. It would be able to grab stuff, tie people together, all sorts of neat tricks. Imagine Wonder Woman's whip. Secondly, it's feasible for such an object to be in Roshar because people from Nalthis are clearly visiting. Thirdly, the description of the chain as silvery matches the style of the sword carried by Vivenna (Azure). Because of this connection, my bet is that this thing was carried over by Vivenna or Vasher, and that if Vivenna had seen it she would have flipped out and demanded it to be returned. Perhaps she needed to trade it in for stormlight while traveling in Shadesmar. I can't think of any reasons why this thing couldn't be a Type IV. So far, we've only seen them as swords but there's no real reason they couldn't be anything else. Any thoughts from you guys?

Thankfully, this doesnt seem to be the case. The Listeners have gemhearts all of a specific type, and I don’t think its one of the gems used in currency. In fact, i have no idea what type of gem it is except that Venli mentions it is pearly white (i may have misremembered somebody else please confirm). don’t chulls also have gemhearts? Additionally, the ability of these animals to grow gems seems to indicate that the minerals used to produce them are far from scarce. Perhaps they grow in giant caves or something.

It does seem so, huh? But what about what he was saying to Eshonai the night of his murder? He was fairly machivellian there. Not to say i disagree with your other evidence though, I think he was having doubts but was still committed.

have you read oathbringer? If so: (SPOILER)

That could totally be what's happening. What made me think it could be something else was that those Cryptics still appeared as symbolheaded people (like they do in Shadesmar) rather than their physical realm manifestation but that doesn't make what you suggest impossible. I was mostly trying to fit together this stuff with the stormlight that the spren sucked in.

Hmm, I disagreed with this because their appearance was completely identical to Syl's (in terms of their shapes and such) but its a point you could argue.

Good point! This isn't a first, but it only now seemed odd after Syl's comments. Why I think those examples aren't completely representative though is that none of the Bridgemen seem to notice any of the Honorspren. Following the examples you gave, each Honorspren should be visible to one of the Bridgemen (other than Rock), right? Perhaps they just didn't notice. I would say that the Cryptics and Ivory have already started the process of bonding while these Honorspren haven't, but if you dispute that I can see your point of view. Perhaps the Honorspren were drawn there somehow, as the squires "called them" the same way Kaladin called Syl, and somehow were able to pass between realms in the same way that windspren were summoned by Kaladin in the Cognitive Realm? But we don't know the mechanism for that either. And what could be the mechanism for glimpsing? None of the spren in Shadesmar later in the book demonstrated this ability, and if Syl were able to do it it would have been useful at some points on their journey (such as when they reached the Thaylen City Oathgate). Because of this, I think the stormlight is involved somehow.

Oh, when did we learn about this? I'm curious, I missed whatever quote or WoB this info came from. Thanks for the info though! Um, I don't think they're bonded to the Bridgemen yet, because the Bridgemen can't see them. Kaladin could see Syl even before he swore the first oath and while she was still mostly mindless, unlike the spren here. But yes, they're almost certainly behaving like those Highspren. I'm curious as to how they're there rather than why.

Hey guys, so I noticed something really odd going on. In Chapter 37, which is from Rock's perspective, a bunch of Honorspren appear on the neighboring plateau to watch Bridge Four training. From Rock's count, there are over two dozen Honorspren there. What I find curious re-reading this chapter was that it seems impossible and contradicts what Syl claims about Honorspren later in the book. In Chapter 91, Syl tells Kaladin: The spren appearing on the Plateau do not appear to have bonded anybody, and yet they were not mindless (as far as I can tell anyway, they didn't act like Syl did when she was mindless). In addition, they are definitely in the Physical Realm. It's possible that Rock can see spren that are in the Cognitive Realm, but these spren did not appear in their Cognitive Realm forms, and many of them rather appear as Syl does - taking the shape of leaves or other objects blown on the wind. (No Honorspren has been shown doing that inside the Cognitive Realm). Their invisibility to everybody else does not indicate they are in the Cognitive, although it is possible that this means they are closer to the Cognitive realm than a fully physical object. (Let me remind you that a mostly mindless Syl, acting like a windspren, was not visible to humans other than Kaladin when he was being transported to the Shattered Plains as a slave.) These Honorspren do have an ability which I think acts as an answer though, and its something we've never seen Syl do - take in Stormlight. The important Honorspren (Syl tells Rock that her name is Phendorana) sucks in Stormlight from a sphere! So my only theory why these Honorspren are appearing in the Physical Realm, but not mindless, is something to do with this Stormlight. Concentrated Investure can be used to pierce the barrier between the Cognitive and Physical Realms, so isn't it possible to use Investure to stay "linked" to the Cognitive Realm somehow? Anyway I have no real information or proof on this, I'd like to know if you guys think this is possible or provide your own reasoning!

Wait Aesudan died? Whoops i wasn't aware. I thought she was still alive haha, I missed the quote that Weltall pointed out which claimed she was dead. Thanks for posting so much WoBs @Weltall haha, it's been a while since i came on here so i missed a lot. As for not needing to ingest a gemheart, I just assumed that it was needed but the examples we've seen are pretty limited. We haven't seen any Humans gaining surge-powers by bonding an odiumspren other than Yelig-nar yet, so I'd say this is uncertain? Unless you had a WoB on it which I don't know of.

Oathbringer answered a surprisingly large number of questions regarding the history of Roshar, confirming theories about the Heralds, and actually telling us what made the Knights Radiant abandon their oaths. I wasn't expecting this at all and was actually almost dissatisfied, like, "that's it?" since we pretty much already knew that humans were *not* native to Roshar. However, we did learn something new and there's still a very large mystery to be answered. This mystery of course, is that surgebinding somehow destroyed a planet: Ashyn (yes, it was Ashyn, source here: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/174-oathbringer-portland-signing/#e8243 ). First of all, the new thing: humans brought Odium to Roshar. This point was a bit fuzzy to me at first though, I thought that the references to their god being the "Void" were references to Honor, since Odium had claimed earlier that Honor lacked emotion and passion. However, Syl seems to tell Kaladin that the Void is Odium, not Honor, and that humankind were originally of Odium. This lines up nicely if you subscribe to the theory that Dawnsingers were Listeners who could held forms granted by Honor, before the spren "betrayed them." It also lines up with WoB that Odium arrived after Honor and Cultivation. With this knowledge, here is my general idea of the initial events on Roshar: Humans arrive, traveling through Shadesmar or some other method, at Shinovar. Perhaps this involved Odium creating a perpendicularity there (temporarily?), leading to his entrance into Roshar. The humans make an agreement with Honor, Cultivation, and the Listeners in order to inhabit Shinovar. Odium, however, wants to grab power on this planet and decides that the best way to do it is to incite the humans to try and conquer the world. Odium likely aided mankind in taking over Roshar, using this to create a force he could control even more easily: the Fused. Because of their hatred towards mankind for breaking their promises, and the way that Listeners change forms, Odium found it advantageous to switch sides and convert the Listeners into his army. At this point, Honor would then have sided with Humans - the "betrayal" of the Listeners - in order to oppose Odium. Now then, for the mystery, how was Ashyn destroyed? The Eila Stelle mentions surges, and bonds to spren, but this means it involved bonds to Odium's spren, and we have no real idea of how that would function in Ashyn. On Roshar, humans need to ingest a gemheart in order to hold surges granted by Odium (Amaram's forces on the battle of Thaylen City were bonded to Odiumspren without gemhearts, but they didn't gain any powers from this bond, unlike Amaram, who bonded Yelig Nar, and the Queen, although her precise powers weren't really displayed. The exception is Renarin, but his spren is rebelling against Odium and he seems to be using a Nahel bond and uses Stormlight: his powers derive from Honor's investure even though his spren is of Odium.) but gems being a focus for magic is specific to the planet of Roshar, so this type of interaction would be very different in Ashyn. Currently, people on Ashyn gain abilities by contracting diseases. To me, this makes sense if the disease is seen as a form of parasitic symbiosis, and compare how this works with bonds on Roshar. Nahel bonds are mutualistic symbiosis, Listener bonds are either mutualism or commensalism (uncertain what the spren in the gemheart gains), while the Fused and the Regals seem to be a form of parasitism, with the Listener being forced to comply with Odium or being destroyed completely. Parasitism is a trait of both Odium's bonds in Roshar and the magical interactions of Ashyn. Perhaps Ashyn's current magic system was created when Odium's spren left the planet, leading to diseases somehow taking their place in the magic system. None of this, however, seems to describe how an entire world could be destroyed. The only theories I've seen floating around about this seem to be that the Dawnshards were employed somehow. For this, think for a moment of Amaram and Aesudan. What type of symbiosis did they have?? Amaram's mind was preserved, and we don't know his perspective so we don't know if Yelig Nar took control of him in any way (beyond transforming his body). Aesudan, however, seems really odd. She claims "Yelig-nar serves me" - implying that it is a parasitism, but that Aesudan is the parasite. (Of course Aesudan may just have been misled and falsely believed she was in command. Also how is Yelig-nar trapped in both Amaram and Aesudan at the same time? Or is Aesudan no longer holding that power, at the time of the battle at Thaylen City?). If it is true that the parasitic nature of bonds drawing from Odium can work with the human as the parasite, and the Dawnshards are capable of "binding anything," then perhaps the Dawnshards were used to bind the very mind/soul of Ashyn. The planet itself must have a cognitive representation in Shadesmar, and the planet itself is certainly Invested. If it could be bound, through Dawnshard, into some form of parasitism were Humans drew on this investure, perhaps this could have rendered the planet uninhabitable. Okay that's it for my crazy theory. Have fun picking it apart or completely demolishing it I won't mind. If there are any WoB's I've missed on this subject please enlighten me haha. Thanks for reading this giant thingy.

Wait what if this is a nightform listener? Hiding and slipping between men... sure sounds like it's doing that.

From this week's chapters: (I can't believe nobody has made a topic about this already) This is a strange glimpse into the Iriali tradition, since we already know of other aspects of their religion (Which the Queen is shown to follow quite heavily) such as all coming from and returning to the One, and the value of experiences. Tidereading just seems completely... off, when compared to the rest of their beliefs, considering that they do not believe in gods, and also that they originate from another planet entirely. (Random speculation: one of their prior planets actually did have tides that bore messages/omens, leading to this tradition). However, there is something which many Iriali revere, and may be related to the tides. Cusicesh is the giant spren that was seen by Axies the Collector in an interlude in the Way of Kings, who appears by the coast of Kasitor, a very large Iriali city. Could it be related to tidereading? On another important note; does tidereading have actual merit? It led to Dalinar having his consultation with the Queen in the sparring grounds, while Dalinar was sparring with Kadash. Obviously, that influenced Dalinar's dialogue in some ways, but was it for the better?

I think that the spy is Rlain, the stonewalker is Szeth, and the traiter is Moash. But then, I feel like Shallan and Eshonai should be on the list, even though these guys fit better.

I think Kal's slave brands will help him gain sympathy with the Parshmen.

I know, I looked up "Lyn" and she was a scout during the battle of Narak so that was a complete theory crasher. Oh well, it was funny to think about.

Guys this was originally almost a joke but I'm beginning to like this theory. It sort of explains why that scout acted with a complete lack of formality: she didn't bow and even went flipping through Shallan's notebook without permission. That doesn't seem normal to me. To completely crash this theory, Dalinar calls the scout by name - Lyn. Is that a complete dealbreaker for her being Jasnah?

WAIT A MINUTE What if she's that random messenger girl who was asking Shallan stuff about being a radiant, and she was disappointed that Shallan wasn't rebelling enough against the sexism of the society? Could she pull of a disguise like that? She doesn't have lightweaving, but who knows maybe good makeup or something, and those eye-darkening drops. Who knows, she could probably soulcast a mask... I would say this theory is pretty out there and I don't really believe it but I find it a fun possibility.

Sanderson doesn't just waste words like this. It is my belief that Zeheb is ageless. So, if she's a Roshar native, that would make her an Aimian. But she could very well be a worldhopper, in which case you may be a kandra, Elantrian, Returned (or Vivienna!!), worldhopper using some other method of remaining immortal (Khriss?). Let's do a quick analysis on these options. Aimian: Dysian aimians are watching the "Four": Kaladin, Shallan, Szeth, and Dalinar. It doesn't seem unreasonable if one of them is hanging around him now, but would they be doing so while Kaladin grew up? Also, they can spy very effectively remotely, there is no need for their "body" to be anywhere near Kaladin, unless they're trying to protect him. I find this option possible, but not entirely plausible without better information. Kandra: WalDo?? Why would the kandra be here, though? Doesn't seem to serve many ends, unless it's being employed by Harmony/Trell to keep a watch on Roshar and Kaladin specifically. Elantrian: We have not seen any of their presence on Roshar. Does not seem plausible. Returned: Yesteel? Vivienna (Ik she's not returned but I'm lumping her here b/c she's from Nalthis). Could Yesteel disguise himself as an old woman? Otherwise, he might be on Roshar for the easy investure. Vasher, after all, was also an ardent. However, I have no clue how he could pull off this disguise. Vivienna could certainly appear this way, but it seems a bit too unimportant of a role for her to take; some random ardent in a small town, unless she somehow knew about Kaladin. I dislike the idea of some random Returned being here to hijack on the stormlight who we've never met. Khriss: she's certainly been on Roshar and is investigating it's magics. Being an ardent would also be a good position from which to discover some of these things. However, Nazh is hanging around the Shattered plains, and I don't think Khriss would hang around for decades in a tiny village to do this.