Straw
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Everything posted by Straw
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People have been taking the fact that I said that for Eternum's case specifically, and ran away with it. I don't think they're necessarily both elims. I said that was an issue with Eternum's case, since I felt like his case implied that Pyro was an elim if TJ was. The two villagers I am referring to are Pyro and Silber, since I'm talking about the Silber train.
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The way I read it, TJ was saying that it was bad that people were assuming Pyro was an elim when voting on TJ, which is valid. I think that people should try to minimize assumptions like that when possible. Could you please point to what you find suspicious about TJ? It doesn't 100% tell us his alignment, but it helps shed light on the shift to Silber, which TJ was part of.
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Voting on people entirely based on flips is a really bad idea. You could be a villager and vote for all villagers. The process matters more than the result if you're trying to read votes. Strongly disagree with this.
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It affects TJ's alignment since an elim has very little reason to care who is lynched between two villagers. Could you please explain what exactly is similar? You're not being helpful. You do have an opportunity to defend yourself. Take a look at my post about you, for example. Also, providing some reads would be nice. Also, why did you try to PM me? Has anyone else been PMed by Pyro?
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First of all, I don't actually like ties as end results, since I think randomness doesn't benefit us much. I think that Pyro has been more suspicious, especially after I just looked through his posts again: -We start off with a vote on Fifth, and Pyro is just sheeping my vote without apparently knowing why there's a vote on Fifth at all. -Pyro then claims that his vote was "pressure" and retracts his vote. He also then claims that I'm suspicious, which is odd. This whole post feels like Pyro reacting to pressure, backtracking, and trying to divert suspicion onto me. -He then claims soon after that his vote on Fifth was never meant to last, which doesn't make much sense either. I'm not sure if he ever explained this, but it feels odd to me. -This is followed by a blatant appeal to emotion, where Pyro dramatically declares that his death won't be much of a loss, probably in the hope that people will think he's village. -He then votes on Silber for self-preservation, and says that the Silber lynch train is suspicious. The amount of hesitation he expresses here seems almost like he's trying to set things up so he can divert attention away from himself D2. So, Pyro. On TJ and Pyro, I'd rather give TJ some more time to analyze and prove himself to us.
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@Ashbringer Why didn't you want to break the tie between Silber and Pyro? @Eternum The one issue I have with that is if TJ is an elim, it would mean that Pyro is also an elim. If the vote trains were both village, elim!TJ wouldn't have cared about swinging the vote to Silber. I guess it could have been pocketing, but I don't think that's particularly likely. So, in this case wouldn't it make more sense to vote Pyro?
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Could you please point out where I was drawing suspicion to them? I certainly dislike random voting, but I usually do not find it suspicious if it is done early on. Later in the cycle however, I am far more suspicious of random voters, as they are not contributing to the discussion despite having plenty of information to go off of. I wouldn't draw too much from Ventyl's post. This cycle I'd like to hear a bit more from some of the people who were quiet on C1.
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Tinfoiling itself isn't suspicious, it's suspicious when you use it as an excuse for everything. Silber has been in people's reads as an elim for a while, so I think that it isn't really a sudden rush, more that people were on different wagons before. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ EDIT: Forgot to agree about the peer review thing. It really doesn't happen and shouldn't be used as an excuse.
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Yeah, it seems like we just inherently have different styles for that. Yeah, Xino seems somewhat less suspicious. Any thoughts on Silber at the moment?
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Sorry for the double post, but I'm voting. Taking a look at this post, it really is unhelpful. He doesn't really explain much about his vote, and seems to be setting up tinfoil/paranoia as an excuse if his vote is wrong. It feels like he should be much more confident if he was willing to think that a Fifth/Xino team was reasonable that early on? His "I can't trust anyone" thing also feels like he's preemptively making excuses for things. His "tinfoil reaction" to my vote really doesn't make sense either? He seems to view me adding lots of reasoning as a bad thing, which I find odd. He does say that it's mostly not weighty, but doesn't push back much. Overall seems very wishy washy, and I'm happy to vote for him at the moment. Vapor. Silber. Taking a look at the pool I set out, I think I'd be good with removing Devotary and Lahilt for now, leaving Silber, Xino, and Pyro as possible targets. Out of those, I currently feel best about voting on Silber. I can always come back and look at Pyro again, and hopefully Pyro will be a bit more helpful.
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Mm, yeah I was leaning against Devotary and Lahilt. Night. Don't worry, you've been plenty helpful.
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Thanks for giving some other village reads! Also, why do you want to be more than moderately certain on village people, but not elims? Even if you're not right, it's still nice to be able to have it, both to prompt discussion and to give us a better grip on how you're feeling about people. Also, just throwing something out there for everyone: Make sure to clear people, even if it's just for a brief bit. Taking out your village reads and looking at the remaining pool allows you to focus on the more suspicious people who you're more likely to vote on. Plus, while it's good to reconsider, paranoia is not productive. Hmm, I'll take a closer look at Sil. Anyone you'd like to see added or removed from my pool of possible votes?
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@Gears In your post, your only village read was on me. Why do you think you have so few village reads? Also, you said you prefered Pyro over Fifth. While I agree, what makes you prefer Pyro over Fifth? @The_Truthwatcher While I know you said you wouldn't be on this cycle, here's a question you can answer whenever. You said that you couldn't come up with suspicions, since there wasn't enough info. In your opinion, what info is needed to suspect people? @Vapor While you are currently suspicious, staying silent is not the way to fix that. If you want to be read as village, try to participate in the discussion in a helpful way, so other people can have reason to improve their read on you. Here are some questions for you: -What are your current reads on people? Why? -Do you particularly agree or disagree with any of my reads? -If you had to kill one person at the moment, who would you kill? -You voted Pyro for retracting without giving a good reason. However, you did the same thing twice. Any comment on this? What were you thinking at that moment? @Lahilt What do you think is suspicious about Matrim? It might be hard to point something out if it's just a gut read, but is there any post in particular that you think is suspicious? Now, since there are three hours left in the cycle, it's worth beginning the process of consolidating votes. Having more pressure on several people is better than having little pressure on many people. First of all, I'd rather not vote out any of the players who are completely new this game. I'd prefer to give them some time to get used to the game, particularly since new players can sound suspicious at first. I'd also rather not remove any of the people who haven't posted yet. For that matter, there are several people who have only posted once, and I'd rather not remove any of them either. Fifth's post was long enough to count as multiple, but I'd rather not remove him until I get a response. I have fairly good reads on me, Eternum, Matrim, TJ, and Mint. That leaves a pool of these people: Devotary of Spontaneity Lahilt Lord_Silberfarben TheYoungPyromancer Xinoehp512 Any thoughts on this? I'll move my vote off of Vapor soon, in favor of someone else.
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My vote on Fifth wasn't useful, since he obviously wasn't around. As to me scaring them off, they had flimsy reasoning. I don't really think a full train on Fifth would ever have been valuable, since Fifth wasn't around to argue. I think it's preferable to keep discussion on active players and have multiple competing vote trains.
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Alright, so I'm breaking this up into two sections. The first part is my reads, the second section is questions for people and my thoughts on possible vote trains. I'm also removing my null reads from the list for now. Gears (mild village) They still have that early post cred from me, and I liked their analysis of the Fifth train. One thing I found interesting about their reads was how they only had one village read, and all the rest were null or elim reads. The_Truthwatcher (very mild elim) They said they don't have enough info to make suspicions. I'm curious what info they'd need. Vapor (moderate elim) They voted on me and Fifth with no explanation at all, and then voted on Pyro with minimal explanation. Interestly, they attacked Pyro for retracting for little reason, despite them having done the exact same thing twice. I really want to give them slack for being new, but their vote changes are very suspicious. I'm curious to see how they'll develop over the rest of the game. This read is one of the ones I'm more uncertain about. Lahilt (very mild elim) They voted on Matrim and didn't explain why. Matrim's Dice (mild village) I liked their progression on Truthwatcher, where they were willing to give Truthwatcher slack for being new. Generally willing to reconsider, which I like. TJ Shade (mild village) I enjoyed their steadiness and willingness to go back and explain their thoughts. I'd like some solid reads from them though. Eternum (moderate village) Their reads seem balanced and fair, and they seem to be approaching the thread with an open mindset, which I like. They didn't try to make excuses for if their reads were wrong, which was good. I also liked their thoughts on Vapor. Frozen Mint (mild village) I liked their reads overall, even if I disagree on Matrim. Their post about not hopping on trains and wanting Fifth to respond seemed good. I also liked their retraction on Gears. Devotary of Spontaneity (very mild village) Their willingness to go against the grain and consider Pyro being village was good. Fifth Scholar (very mild elim) Still wondering where their responses are? I still find them weird, but I think they're a bit more village on a reread. Curious to see them post again. Lord_Silberfarben (mild elim) Their tinfoil on Fifth/Xino was odd, even if they say that they do that often. It feels like a way to have an easy excuse ready. The Young Pyromancer (mild elim) Their vote on Fifth and subsequent retraction was very annoying. I also highly dislike their appeal to emotion.
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Mixed up the V names here. Meant to put a vote on Vapor instead of Ventyl. To be honest, same, but I'd like some pressure on them at least. In general, I'd rather not lynch any of the entirely new players D1, since I'm not familiar with them and want to give them a cycle to get used to the game. Good point on reads at that moment. No idea for vote count. I'd be glad if someone could post one. Also, side note on PMs: PMs are open, but I probably won't be starting any to discuss game things. I think it's best to keep as much as possible in the thread, that way we can all discuss it. It also means that it isn't entirely lost after your death.
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Yeah, I wanted a tie between them as well. I was going to comment on their vote switch onto Pyro, but I decided to wait a bit to see if they've given any reasoning. It doesn't seem like they have, so I'd be willing to vote for them. Also, I don't think you've correct about nobody voting for me at that point. Both Fifth and Mystic had a vote on me then, though Mystic claimed that their vote on me was entirely random. Actually, looking at how high up the vote on Pyro has gotten, I think I'll move from Pyro to Ventyl in hopes of getting some reads from them. I need to catch up with my notes, and then I'll post some revised reads on people.
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Could you please provide any reasons for your votes or suspicions? What do you mean by this? I think I've complained about the random voting and the Fifth bandwagon. I've argued quite a bit about the random voting, and I've done my best to encourage people to give reasons for votes. As for the Fifth bandwagon, I've done my best to get Vapor and Pyro to say why they were suspicious of Fifth. Yeah, I've moved onto Pyro for now. If Fifth doesn't respond or responds and says something weird, I'll move back to him. I might also move back to him if I feel like the pressure on him is too low.
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Just saw this, and it's really interesting that you automatically back down the second someone questions you. Feels like you were trying to take advantage of the Fifth push and now you're trying to get out of the spotlight. What exactly is off about me? If you mean everyone voting on one other person so there's a vote on everyone, then that's a horrible idea. Why would we want a completely random elimination on D1? Fifth. Pyro. Anyone have a vote count ATM? I think that should tie Fifth and Pyro, but IDK.
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This isn't really true? I've given elim reads on: -Frozen Mint -Fifth Scholar -Lord_Silberfarben I'm pretty sure Fifth is the only one of those people who is in favor of random voting? I'd appreciate if you could give some examples.
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To clarify, when I say I want to promote discussion, I mean I want other people to chime in on our discussion. I do also want Fifth to clarify some of the stuff he's said. @MysticLotus any reasoning for doing a random vote on an active player? You're not really helping with anything. @Vapor reasoning for your vote on Fifth? What specifically do you think is suspicious? @Matrim's Dice you said that Truthwatcher was doing exactly what a new elim would do. What specifically is that? @The Young Pyromancer what makes you suspicious of Fifth? Also, just because someone is good at the game doesn't mean they're village? Very interested by the Fifth bandwagon going on here. Good that Gears has given some reads. I don't really disagree with any of them, but I do find it odd how much he emphasizes that his reads aren't do be trusted. Everyone is biased, and if you're biased too much we'll probably be able to figure it out from your reads. Also, I made a list of players by experience during signups so here it is: Hopefully that's somewhat helpful. Also, players are at different levels so don't rely on this too much.
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Okay, so let's look at some reads for the moment! Gears (mild village) Mild village for being the first person to post as a new player, I feel like an eliminator would try to be more cautious. I don't find his RNG votes or plan to be particularly telling, feels like confused new player. The_Truthwatcher (null) They claimed that random voting wasn't useful, but then just popped in with a random vote on Silber. Also doesn't seem to understand random votes entirely, since Silber has posted and given thoughts. @The_Truthwatcher what caused your change of opinion on random votes? Matrim's Dice (very mild village) Pointing out that Gears was a new player was good. They said that they would figure out reads in the morning, which I'll be curious to see. TJ Shade (very mild village) They said they wanted reasoned votes, which I like. Claims Xino changed tactics. @TJ Shade what exactly did Xino change? Eternum (null) I agreed with their comments on poke votes being easy distancing if analyzed and their point that as of now poke vote discussion was more useful than the votes themselves. Frozen Mint (mild elim) They jumped on Gears right away, which I find suspicious since Gears is new, but IDK if they know that. Devotary of Spontaneity (null) They voted on Fifth to prompt a response, which is better than a random vote. They commented on votes only being useful if they stick or start a train, which I agree with. Fifth Scholar (mild/moderate elim) They said that they wanted everyone to contribute meaningfully, which I agree with. They disagreed with Mint on Gears, which was good. I was rereading Fifth's post and I don't think he actually ever gave much reason for a vote on me. Fifth disagreed with me, but disagreement is hardly grounds for an elim read on someone. Fifth also said that he wasn't condemning me, which I found odd considering the fact that he was voting on me. I also noticed that they said that inactive discussion and lynches weren't helpful, which seems to contradict their agreement with random voting on inactives? Lord_Silberfarben (mild elim) They're okay with Truthwatcher's vote on them, but prompted for reasoning, which I like. They voted on Fifth for agreeing with Xino, and immediately tinfoiled a Fifth/Xino elim team. @Lord_Silberfarben what makes you find agreement with another player to be suspicious? Xinoehp512 (null) They encouraged actual lynch discussion, and the forming of trains, which I like. They said they were fine with killing Lahilt, despite them having no posts, which I find odd but not that suspicious. Overall, I think I'll be good with adding some pressure to Fifth Scholar. Hopefully, this will prompt a bit more discussion on him. I'd appreciate if other people could provide reads, even if they just give reads on a few people/posts they find notable. If anyone disagrees with my reasoning for any of these reads, or has a very different read on someone, I'd appreciate if they could say why so we can discuss it.
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The poke vote talk is probably because I came in and wanted to start a discussion on something. Agreed on Gears. I also give them mild village cred for being the first poster as a new player. I feel like a new elim might wait around a bit more, watch the thread, talk in the doc, and then post. Any opinion on what the discussion should move onto? I’m curious about what you think is important to talk about ATM?
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So, first of all, you claim that I’m attacking people who are randomly voting. What makes you say that? I don’t like the strategy, but I don’t feel like it means they’re particularly likely to be an eliminator. You also claim several times that poke votes are valuable for starting D1 discussion. What makes you say that? In my opinion, poke votes don’t generate any individual discussion, since they’re all the same and have no particular basis. I also don’t think they particularly prompt the poked player to post, especially when you have a lot of them flying around. People aren’t going to get eliminated off of single votes, and they don’t put the poked player under any particular focus. I feel like they’re going to check in when they feel like it, and poke votes aren’t going to affect that very much. It doesn’t incentivize contribution in the slightest, and just makes you feel good for “promoting activity”. I also disagree that you can get information from who eliminators randomly vote on. Eliminators have no reason to care about how a random vote will look on a flip, since it represents no thought and requires no evidence. As I’ve mentioned before, it’s not putting anyone under fire. You say that if people weren’t randomly voting, they’d just be making useless check in posts, but that’s not really true. None of the posts so far has been particularly based around their random vote, and I’m curious what you think it adds to their posts? I find your point about this being acceptable due it being D1 to be odd. There’s no particular reason why votes now shouldn’t be based off of thread things. You also seem to be stating the obvious when you say that vote reasoning increases over time. As to what information I’m trying to gather, I’m mainly just reading how people enter the thread and what they say. I’m also trying to get some discussion going around random voting in order to actually create some analyzable interactions. I’d like to see a response from you on this. Overall, you seem to think that random votes generate individual discussion, which they really don’t. Anyone else want to chime in with their thoughts as well?
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Am I the only one who really dislikes the current voting trend? There are five votes at the moment, and only one of them has an actual reason behind it.
