Kingsdaughter613

? I don't see how that's relevant?

I actually know of a Rabbi who had the mafia 'convince' a guy to give a get... but that was the Italian mafia, and in the 60s I think.

New York State is pretty good about this, as they actually have laws protecting the women. Women have power now too, as men are, for the most part, allowed only one wife. (There are some very hard to get exceptions; generally when the wife is vegetative or similar. And then convince 100 Rabbis that they should agree to it.) Some people I know got theirs because of that. It can also be put in a divorce settlement. Some women I knew got it that way.

But it was much easier when we could beat the guy up. It also served as a better deterrent. (And if he didn't agree, well, a widow is free too...) So I am TOTALLY on board with a vigilante beating up these guys.

But you'd need two - two witnesses! And one has to be a scribe. Also, at least one of the refusers has to try and invalidate the get after it's sent, only to discover that this actually anulls the marriage.

This is just so great!

They were at the South Magnetic Pole, not the geographical pole.

Restoring the cells back to the prior state doesn't necessarily mean what was lost is restored.

My feeling is that memory is really stored in the Cognitive and that the brain acts as a receiver. TBIs mess with the receiver. When the brain dies the connection is broken. In between, I think, is what happens when the brain begins to die.I think at that point the connection between Cognitive and Physical begins to fray at the rate of brain death. Vegetative states would then be possible in the Cosmere, with the added twist that the Soul is still connected to the Physical even if the Cognitive isn't. 

Note that Nail specifically mentions that Szeth's brain was still alive. We have also only seen gold healing done immediately post or during the TBI, when only the receiver is damaged. The tissue hasn't actually started to die yet or has just died. 

Gold healing is likely more comprehensive though, as it is a spiritual healing ultimately and Connection is spiritual. It's possible that the magic AED isn't. If it just heals on the Physical, or Physical and Cognitive but not Spiritual, then my theory still makes sense.

(As you can see, I've clearly been trying to figure out how brain damage works in the Cosmere. We know psychosis allows people to see into other realms. (Not mental illness in general, because Kaladin could do it then.) I'm still trying to figure that one out... best guess is that their Connections are confused, like the link between Spiritual and Physical is crossing over the one between Physical and Cognitive.)

BoM spoilers:

Note that you have to use the inworld pronunciation for the limerick to work. This is supposed to be a jump rope poem that kids sing once this is better known. (No, the various Churches aren't thrilled. Yes, Kell thinks it's awesome.) Each jumper does one stanza, the next jumping in at the last word of the last line.

Just a thought I had; Jezrian could be Cabin. An infant sits around drooling, has no self control, and has unclear, random speech at first. The same traits could easily be applied to an alcoholic, which we are told Jezrian is.

Oddly, I read this as Szeth suffering brain damage from being dead for a few minutes before Nail showed up with the magical AED. So his Cognitive self is whole, but his Physical self is not and the two are having trouble communicating... No idea if that makes any sense though. How DOES brain damage work in the Cosmere?

It's also possible that wasn't the secret. In fact, it almost certainly wasn't. Once the North and South really got to talking SOMEONE was bound to mention that the Sovereign had blond hair and scars on his arms. Oh, and told people to 'Survive.' At which point everyone figures it out.

Aside from that, I feel that Kell is still too arrogant to allow someone else, especially someone he hated, to get credit for something Kelsier did. All of which make me doubt that his existence is what he wanted to hide.

So what secret is hidden there... I honestly have no idea. I could very well be over thinking this, but it is worth noting that Wax drops the coin midway through the memory. We still don't know what happened after 'Survive.' It could be in the part of the memory we don't see. It's also VERY likely that it is something that will seem obvious in hindsight, but we would have trouble guessing before the reveal. (How many times has that happened already?)

If Tolkien wrote the Stormlight archive... It would start off as several massive songs. it would be heavily reworked throughout his life and not be published during it. It would be compiled from his notes by his son who would edit it and release it, in many cases not in a way the fans agreed with.

All the characters would have several names in several languages, some so well developed that they can be spoken. The use of the thorn plays a large role in Alethi politics.

Kaladin is cursed by Odium to failure. He ends up with Shalan, who has had her memories altered. It turns out they were siblings, which Shalan only remembers after she has conceived, at which point she throws herself into a chasm. Adolin tells Kaladin who kills Adolin and then himself. Dalinar then dies in Navani's arms. (For some reason I feel that Kaladin would have made a good Turin...)

Eventually Lift goes on a journey off world, during which some VERY insane Heralds destroy most of the peoples' safeholds. This journey causes all the non interference people to interfere. This wins the war, but also destroys a good chunk of the land. Odium is defeated, but there is a prophecy that he will return and Kaladin will kill him and Roshar will be remade.

Oh, and near the end of his life the Cosmere back story is totally redone - but he never finished writing it... And IMPORTANT things, like Nale fostering two children after killing their parents is described as: 'and love grew between them, as little might be thought.' Many, many pages are spent on topographical descriptions instead.

But it was all written by an in world historian, and the author is just translating a translation.

Ati was basically a puppet for the investiture to act through. The person he had been was long gone. Kelsier saw him for what he was; a shell housing power. Since what was left did not see himself as 'Ati' he had trouble taking that form convincingly.

Or, at least, that was how I understood it.

I doubt they could heal a cold because 

Since all cosmere healing is based on the same principle I don't think the healing surge would work. 

And the problem with the common cold is how quickly it mutates. Heal one strain and there is another. 

Part of why we can handle colds is because we are adapted to it. As are our immune systems. There do not seem to be many illnesses on Roshar; therefore immune systems are likely not as strong. And if the cold doesn't exist then neither do adaptations to manage it. People who are immune compromised can get very sick or die from colds.

Now imagine a world where everyone is immune compromised. All of a sudden one the most virulent, air born, mutating viruses is introduced. A plague is just the beginning. Or should be; I'd be really unhappy if it doesn't.

Fortunately for Roshar, the Purelake seems to be fairly isolated. And it's possible the virus can't survive the high storms. On the other hand, SOMEONE has managed to get the word out...

So much for non interference.

Ah,  got it! I've seen lots of discussions that bring up other books on here though so I'm a bit confused. I fixed the Warbreaker spoiler; it now only makes sense if you've read the book. I can't put it in spoiler tags from my mobile or I'd do that.

Thank you for the compliment!

Denth is depressed, not crazy. And he may not even be clinically depressed. Working in the mental health field I really hate the term 'crazy' or 'insane.' It's both insulting and vague. Maybe we could use another term?

Generally I consider the word insane to be in reference to psychotics. Denth is many things, but not psychotic. His thoughts and plans are rational and organized; he does not have delusions or show signs of disorganized thinking. So I don't really consider him 'crazy.'

I was unaware anything I posted was a spoiler. Both books came out years ago and are no longer considered spoiler territory. Also, the differing psychoses of the Heralds do not spoil plot points - with the possible exception of Nail which was why that was in a spoiler.

On 2/27/2017 at 5:45 PM, Sheridan_rd said:

I am very curious what Sanderson is gonna do with Kelsier.

Immortality caused all the Heralds to go crazy in one way or another, add Kel's laundry list of Powers and things would get boring

Actually, we don't know why the Heralds went crazy, but the biggest theory is it was due to trying to break the oath pact. Besides, 'crazy' is relative. Kalak seems to be paranoid, but not delusional so not crazy. Jezrian is an alcoholic and has been for centuries, so he may well have cognitive damage. But he isn't crazy. Shalash might be; her actions do indicate some psychosis; delusions of persecution possibly. Now spoilers:

So we only have one of the Heralds we've met who have been around for the past millennia who actually seems to be insane. 

Then there are Returned; Warbreaker clearly is not mad and neither was VaraTreledees or Arsteel. They've ALL lived longer than Kell. The Ire are a LOT older than Kell and they aren't insane. Khriss is older than Kell and is also quite sane. 

So I'm not sure why you would think Kell would go insane?

As for his powers... it really depends on the individual. Kell is a conman first and foremost. And he's planning to find information; he seemed to me to be thinking of being Scadrial's spy. Which means his powers are actually not as useful as you'd think. The opposite really; if he has to USE most of them his mission has already failed. Bronze and Zinc being an exception, as they would be useful for intelligence gathering - but only as long as people don't know he can use them! So a little pewter, careful taps of gold (drink a lot, but not getting drunk?), bendallow and Atium for disguise, copper and bronze, the rest are used very little. 

It wasn't Kelsier's powers that caused the rebellion, it was his manipulation of events. He didn't help save Scadrial with his powers; he did it by conning his enemies. The powers are nice, but without them he is still very dangerous. Actually, he's just as dangerous with and without. Kell is all about the con. The powers are a bonus.

11 hours ago, Mr. Staccato said:

 

@Crucible of Shards

@Kingsdaughter613 True true - people cannot become better if everything is as is. Strife and pain are the greatest motivators for advancement. Of course, some people will get worse end of the deal with this arrangement and they'll invariably blame it on Harmony for it ever happening but bad things will have to eventually happen someone, somewhere, and sometimes that someone just happens to be you.

There's a great line in the Vorkosigan Saga about that, which I'm going to paraphrase, 'tests are a gift and great tests are great gifts.' No one wants to be tested, but if by going through a test we become better people then isn't the test a good thing? If you can make something good out of something horrible then hasn't it ultimately been for good? Of course we'd prefer not to have experienced such a thing to begin with, but if we took away some 'bad' we'd also lose so much good.

Sorry for the double post; my phone can be annoying like that sometimes.

I've always felt that he didn't know they were there while he fixed the world and by the time he realized it was too late to fix things without remaking the world again. We actually know what he was thinking while he ascended and there is no indication that he knew of their existence.

They were at the South magnetic pole, not the South Pole. It would not have taken ten years for them to die if it had been the other way. And it would have been too cold for the northerners too, had that been the case.

Another question that needs to be asked is free will. Assuming he had the ability: If Saze took all evil inclinations from people, wouldn't that be taking away their ability to choose? If he kept them safe from all harm wouldn't they be smothered? 

Without struggle there is no growth. Without pain we couldn't recognize joy. If that was taken away we'd lose a major part of what it is to be human. We'd have nothing to strive for.

And if we are going to blame Saze for the bad, why not blame him for the good too? If he hadn't interfered Wax and Steris might never have realized how well matched they really are!

Note the word 'seen.' All the attributes we know it's stolen have been physical quadrant. When we know it's stolen something that isn't we can revisit.

Also his personality; he never dealt well with internal conflict; he loves to give over knowledge (hence the slipping); and the way he speaks can make him sound confused even when he isn't...

On 2/12/2017 at 2:10 PM, Yata said:

Exactly, also if that logic is already at risk...Trellium too seems be able to Steal multiple attributes, probably all of them (I was unable to find a specific pattern in the metals it could replace)

Trellium has only been seen to steal physical quadrant abilities. (I was trying to find a pattern. I feel that it can't (or shouldn't) do what Atium does as that diminishes the latter.) Hope that helps.

The slow spiraling is because A) Preservation sacrificed his mind to defeat Ruin and B( because he is dieing. There is no indication that this is caused by the power itself; to the contrary, the shard's power should do the opposite.

Some of us are... And damnation is a curse in RL too.

Some people on Scadrial may have seen him. Saze implies that Kell is not around which could hint at him being off world. He's had a few centuries to figure out how to do it, after all. At which point we get to the spike, which he would have to disguise. Which is why I suggested blind men, one eyed ones, or illusions. the first two are an excuse to cover it; the latter simply avoids the issue.

If he did create them then he has all the powers and thus does not need them. He would probably have his own metalminds though.