NovaSeeker

Okay, only vaguely recalling here, but I have a memory that "true-breeding" mistwraiths only live 50 years. In which case, TenSoon would have had to been born an un-sentient mistwraith, and the only kandra that were actually formerly humans were the First Generation.

I don't think the arguments against Fortune being a Shard hold water. The Intents of Shards so far have been actions, or personality traits? What about Dominion? That's not an action or personality trait. It would be more apt to name the shard "Rule" or "Dominate" if it was just about being in charge. Rather, Dominion's intent seems to be more about the state of a domain, a territory, than any "action" or "personality" ascribed to dominions. Shards are aspects of God, and hold portions of his power. I don't believe the concept or ideal of Fortune would be out of hand for an aspect of godhood. (Many people, even not particularly religious ones, ascribe good fortune to the blessing of a deity. "Oh thank God!")

That's exactly my thinking. He was obviously a serial killer in the making, which is the kind of "open" mind that Shards like Ruin can speak to without a Hemalurgical spike, like Vin's mother. My theory is that Forch was extremely mentally unstable, enough to be influenced by "Trell" into doing what he was doing, but he was also taking his time and "enjoying" it, because a big part of his mental instability was extreme sadism. The influence then, would be to end with a Hemalurgical spiking, to make him even more "open" to external influence.

Oooh, what about a repeating crossbow made for use by Lurchers? Some sort of mechanism where you're constantly Pulling a steel-cord bowstring back, which pops another bolt in from the magazine, and you just stop Pulling to make the thing fire, then immediately Pull on it again, popping another bolt into place, etc. etc. etc. Could even have wooden "hazekiler" bolts to get through defenses. A lot cheaper than aluminum.

Sounds exactly as crass and vulgar to me, honestly. Not that I personally minded (I just about fell out of my chair laughing because of that scene in Alloy of Law). But then again, I suppose it's pretty subjective. To answer your question, though, I do think it's just you.

Wasn't he strapping a Terris kid (possible ferring) down to an altar, ready to stab him with a metal implement? Sounds suspiciously like Hemalurgy to me.

Two clean books? Shooting a dog's balls off is clean?

Forgive me if my assumptions are wrong, but I don't think you can become a Ferruchemical savant, because it is a power-neutral magic system. You're never getting more out of it than you put in. Savantism only works with Allomancy (or Hemalurgically granted Allomancy) because Allomancy is a net-positive magic, where you are constantly pulling on the power of a Shard while burning metals and "overdosing" on that power. Ferruchemical power comes from you, not a Shard, so you can't "overdose" on it, and it can't alter you into a Savant. The reason why I say that Miles could get his no-pain from being a Compounding Savant is, and correct me if I am wrong here as well, he is not tapping a goldmind for healing. He is storing up healing in a goldmind, then swallowing and burning that goldmind as if it was a brand new allomantic metal. That was my assumption of how Compounding works. By burning (NOT tapping) the ferruchemical charge in the goldmind, he is drawing power from a Shard instead of just the goldmind and experiencing an exponentially increased capacity for healing, orders of magnitude greater than merely tapping a goldmind would give. So much so, in fact, that he can fill up other goldminds while STILL being ridiculously regenerative (hence, an infinite feedback loop of healing ability, i.e. compounding.) We know that the effects of Savantism depends on the kind of metal you're burning. Coinshot savants like Wax gain increased finesse and ability with pushing metals. Tineye savants like Spook deaden the sensitivity of pretty much every nerve ending in their body while simultaneously increasing the enhancement gained from burning tin (Which is why he can sense better than any other Tineye, but becomes blind, deaf, and basically numb to all sensation when turning it off). Pewterarm savants are said to no longer recognize when they are physically exhausted or feel pain. The way Savantism changes you physically directly corresponds, somehow, to the kind of allomantic effect you are "overdosing" yourself on. Therefore, for someone who burns compounded gold constantly the way Miles does, it's only logical to assume that the Investiture being channeled through him at such a constant rate would alter his body physiologically in-line with the effects the Investiture is creating in his body, just like it does for the regular Allomantic metals. He's allomantically overdosing on ferruchemically charged gold.

So... The Sequence and the Suit work for the Set, and there might be a Series involved. I can't help but feel like this alliteration is important, some kind of hint. Also, they're off-worlders planning an invasion, right? Everyone else got that from the scene in the prison? Or am I just crazy?

Vin wasn't "merely" a Mistborn in that moment, though. She was burning the Mists, which were the unadulterated power of Preservation. That's how a "mere mistborn" was able to defeat him. (Also remember, the Lord Ruler was a "mere" mistborn/ferruchemist during this time. He no longer had the power of any Shards in that moment. Unlike Vin, burning Mists, who did.) Spoilers for the end of Bands of Mourning

I was under the impression that Miles was a Compounded-Gold Savant. If Wayne was suddenly spiked with the ability to burn gold, and started burning compounded gold, I don't believe he would show the same level of regenerative capacity as Miles does. I think at first, a shotgun blast to the face might still kill him. I think this is the case because it's been stated that Savants change their physiological makeup. The chapter epigraphs from Hero of Ages explicitly say savants become somewhat inhuman. I think Miles was definitely inhuman to the point where his ludicrous healing capacity would continue to function even if he was beheaded (tanget: I imagine the head would die and the body would grow a new head with an exact replica of his neural pathways and memories, because I believe the healing effect comes from burning the metal in his stomach, which would continue to burn without any mental input because his inhuman body itself knows to keep burning the gold.)

There's no cannon or WoB explanation for Atium alloys other than Atium/Gold (Malatium). So, lets have fun with it! Come up with your own effects! Steel: (Gravatium) Increase local gravity. Iron: (Levatium) Decrease local gravity. Zinc: (Amatium) Erase target's memories. Longer burn = further back memories can be erased. Brass: (Falatium) Implant false memories. Longer burn = further back memories can be implanted. Pewter: (Sapatium) Decrease target's physical abilities. Tin: (Clairatium) Remote view long distances. Copper: (Veilatium) Become invisible. Bronze: (Menatium) Gain telepathic ability. Duralumin: (Benatium) Grant all current allomantic reserves and allomantic ability to target within range for duration of burn. Aluminum: (Voratium) Steal all current allomantic reserves and allomantic ability from target within range for duration of burn. Nicrosil: (Aeigatium) Become immune to all forms of external allomantic influence (zinc, brass, nicrosil, chromium, etc.) Chromium: (Ultimatium) Enable duralumin-eqsuqe hyperflare of other allomatic reserves at normal burn rates. Cadium: (Dimatium) Teleport self a distance relative to amount burned/flared. Bendalloy: (Banatium) Teleport target touched a distance relative to amount burned/flared. Electrum: (Duatium) Steal target's Identity. Gold: (Malatium) Reveal another's past self. Edit: Well I went ahead and decided on stuff for everything. But I'm still curious what other people come up with!

lol thanks Pathfinder. I'm about a third of the way through Bands of Mourning, so I'll see you there soon!

I think a lie is simpler than finding out which one of 256 possible twinborn combinations Bloody Tan needed to be to just happen to be able to pull off an impossibly fast maneuver to kill Lessie, and then subsequently ignore that same ability to save his own life. Do I think that Harmony can lie? Yes. I do. Harmony never claimed to be infallible, and he is equal parts Ruin and Preservation, with a dash of Sazed. All of which lied. (Sazed lied to save Elend and Vin from Luthadel's fall. Preservation lied about the deal to let Ruin destroy the world. And Ruin lied to everybody and everything). So do I think it's internally consistent for Harmony to tell choice lies so that his chosen Sword (Wax) will follow a life path that results in a net positive (stopping what needs to be stopped)? Yes, I do believe that's entirely consistent with Sazed, Ruin, and Preservation. It doesn't mean that he would automatically resort to lies and forced control at all times like Ruin. It means he, like Sazed and Preservation, are not above lying in certain circumstances for the "greater good".

Okay, lets say you're right. Bloody Tan is a twinborn with allomantic electrum and feruchemical zinc. Why'd he let himself get shot in the head right after Lessie? Conveniently ran out of metalmind processing? Just a psycho? Secretly another corrupted kandra? I think the simplest answer is that he isn't any of those (well, except psycho). I think it requires far less justification to simply say "Harmony jerked Paalm in the way with her own body because, hey, it wouldn't actually kill her, and the loss of 'Lessie' would make Wax return to Elendel where he needs to be to avert a major catastrophe." Paalm does accuse Harmony of "making [Wax] kill her". I do not believe she is talking about his current hunt of Bleeder. (Melaan was adamant about the kandra actually wanting to capture and care for her). And I do not believe she is lying here. Harmony forced Wax to kill Lessie.

It's not about speed of processing it's about number of options. Burning Electrum produces a "cloud" of possible futures. Increased mental processing speed would let you calculate the exact number of possible futures that cloud is made up of, but it wouldn't let you determine which single shadow from that cloud is the "real" future upon which to act. (Though if it did, this twinborn A:Electrum/F:Zinc combination would essentially be as good as Atium. Better, even, because you could calculate through the "infinite feedback loop" of true Atium. Would make for a really cool character/villain like Miles Hundredlives.)

Right, from the first excerpt, it sounds like burning Electrum always produces a cloud of possible futures. And as you say, it gives you no sixth sense for dealing with all that information. Meaning Bloody Tan burning Electrum would still have no idea when to jerk Lessie into the line of fire.

I know that Electrum used as a counter to Atium because of the feedback-loop visual effect. I just... hm. The mechanics of Electrum were never explained, so I thought that burning electrum always resulted in an array of future-shadows that anyone could see, and it only appeared to be a feedback loop to Atium users. It was "poor man's Atium", so I didn't think it provided an actual benefit on its own (Allowing you to see your future and avoid futures that result in your death.) Otherwise they'd be burning Electrum a whole lot more, because it would be the perfect defense against ALL incoming danger. Has there been a canonical example of someone burning Electrum when they were not up against an Atium-burner?

Is that how Electrum works? Would that produce the "copies ad infinitum" feedback loop with Atium? Man. Screwing with time gives me a headache.

So the theory is that Bloody Tan spiked Lessie, then took her hostage, then used a hemalurgical-granted Atium-like power to "kill" her. (I don't think Electrum works. Wax would have had to be the one burning Electrum for Tan to see exactly when he would fire.) Hmm. I dunno. Could be. The weird religious stuff Tan was spouting could be connected to Trell, but he was also talking about Ironeyes with reverence, and he is part of Harmony's "religion". Also, Lord Mistborn was an advocate for Hemalurgy, and unless something else comes along to hint it, I don't think there's any indicator that he was being influenced by Trell when he wrote the book Ironeyes gave to Marasi.

Really? I could have sworn that it was stated that Harmony pressured her, but eventually had to control her, and that's why she went so far as to actually remove a spike. Personally I think that makes far more sense. Even my reading and/or memory is wrong, and TenSoon and Melaan do explicitly say that Harmony never directly controlled her, then it's currently my theory that they are being lied to by Harmony. The sudden jerk that "killed" Lessie in Alloy of Law was just too perfect. It read like an Atium dodge. And I think it makes more sense that way for Paalm to go crazy with grief over losing her identiy as Wax's wife because she was meat-puppetted by her god, then remove a spike and try to take him down.

I don't know why, but I feel like, if I were to run a Mistborn rpg game in the Alloy of Law era, I'd use "Deller" as a kind of slang for Elendel City residents. There's also a bit of confusion because Elendel is the name of the entire Basin. So how do you refer to yourself to someone in the Roughs if you want to specifically say you're from the City, and not the Basin as a whole?

Hello all! New here, first post. Just finished Shadows of Self a few days ago. And man, yes, I am seriously disappointed with Sazed. I'm glad I was reading at home, so no one saw me bawling as Lessie died. Again. I can only guess that as Harmony, Sazed is forced to make compromises, because of what Melaan said about Harmony putting the pain where it can be borne. I was hopeful that Harmony would be a true melding of Ruin and Preservation and become something else entirely, but it seems like Sazed is forced to Ruin things and Preserve things on a semi-equal basis. Also, I'm pretty sure that Sazed assumed direct control of Lessie when she first died in Alloy of Law's prologue. Here's why: Wax had the shot lined up perfectly on Bloody Tan, and only at the last second, she jerked to the side. When it first happened, I assumed Bloody Tan was an Atium misting and knew exactly what was coming, but then he got shot in the head right after so I thought that was that. (And only later in reading the book was it confirmed that all the Atium was gone) I believe there's a line in Shadows of Self that explained why Paalm was so mad at Harmony. Melaan said that Harmony ordered her to do something, and when she wouldn't do it, then he directly controlled her and made her do it. Now at the end of the book, we know that Harmony wanted her to ensure Wax's return to Elendel, and we know that, as Wax's wife, she couldn't bring herself to make him so unhappy. So when, exactly, did Harmony take control and force her to obey? When he bodily shoved her in the way of Wax's bullet, predetermined with atium-like foresight only Harmony had access to, ensuring that Wax saw "Lessie" die right in front of him. In this instance, Harmony wasn't even an impersonal cruel god, directing the whims of fate in obscure ways to bring misfortune. No, this time, it was intimately personal. It was as if Sazed was standing there and deliberately pushed Lessie into the bullet, just to break Wax and make him go back to the city. So yes. Yes indeed. I do think Harmony is seriously messed up.