Toaster Retribution

Chana mentions that she got killed once more after returning to Roshar following Shallan killing her. Any theories about happened? If it was Voidbringers, wouldn’t they have tried to capture her similarly to what they did with Jezrien? So did she just slip in the Urithiru showers or something?

Dalinar is dead. Passing into the Beyond is Brandons way of confirming that a character is truly gone and beyond resurrection. And I think it is important to keep it that way: death has to mean something, after all. Furthermore, Dalinars death is a ”passing the torch” moment to the next generation of Radiants who has to deal with a new version of Roshar. There is no narrative reason to bring him back, and Brandon used an established narrative tool to confirm that he is genuinely dead. 

11 hours ago, JasnahShouldBeVegan said:

I don’t mind having a character that’s almost a meme. He has his schtick where he: fly’s in, kills someone awesome in a dishonourable way, does a bridge 4 salute, and then leaves when things start to get tricky for him. Haha. He’s just so easy to hate. And what makes it worse is that he thinks he’s doing good (the philosophy behind his actions is so dumb which makes it even more frustrating). Just to make it even worse he is a massive traitor.

I do think that he works in that regard as well, although it might fall in the ”fun writing” category rather than ”great writing”. I don’t think Moash needs to be sympathetic anymore (he arguably was in WoR/OB were he at least fought for some kind of justice in an unjust system) and since then he has fallen into pure evil due to letting himself be ruled by hate and anger. That is fine. But I do think it would be interesting to do something more with him, I’d have loved a scene with him and El for example, especially since El used to be Vyre before Moash came around, and also due to Els interest in humans. 

One of my main complaints with Wind & Truth is how little time we spent with many of the villains. Disregarding Odium and Nale (who turned good by the end) and arguably maybe Mraize we didn’t really get to spend much time with any villain. They showed up for confrontations or an Interlude and were then barely seen again. I for one would have loved to see what El got up to with the Black Fisher and how he led his army, more about Moashs current state (he seriously just shows up to gleefully kill characters at this point), maybe a scene or two with Mraize and Iyatil. Heck, just having Odium interact more with his minions (like Battar, or even Nale whose Skybreakers serve him) would have been interesting. I get why a lot of this wasn’t included, the book is BIG as is, but still… anyone else who’d have liked more villain screen-time?

So, in WaT, we learn that Mraize has never been to other planets. He says so himself, and there is no reason for him to lie, nor to hold anything back from us readers since he is now dead as dodo. However, there are WoBs that clearly state that Mraize has visited other planets. So, did Brandon forget about this, or change his mind or is he actually hiding something? 
 

Quote

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

Is [Mraize] a worldhopper?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, he's been to a few planets, highly supervised by his babsk.

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

So what planet is she from?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, that's kind of a hard thing to say. She has 3 planets she's "from". For example, she's living now on Roshar, but then she's from a different planet, but that's not a planet that her people are from.

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

So there was a mass exodus to that planet?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not exactly. If you were to find a Japanese American, where would they say that they are from? Her people did not have a mass exodus.

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

Have we seen mass exoduses before?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there are some in the cosmere. There's a mass exodus that is mentioned in one of the interludes in [Words of Radiance].

Footnote: Zas678 intially reported that the mass exodus was discussed in The Way of Kings, Arthur Dent later corrected this as Brandon actually referred to Words of Radiance.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

1 hour ago, The Rooster said:

What if the Price was Karbranth?  Sure seemed like that was already queue'd up when it happened.

I doubt that, especially since Taravangian in essence kept the city (or at least it’s people) around. I suspect it is something more personal, and with greater ramifications for Taravangian and his powers. 

Dalinar Kholin is dead and gone. That is what going Beyond means, that is kind of the border Brandon has set up for when people are dead and won’t come back. 

However, the Blackthorn is alive and well, unfortunately.

I’m going to toss in that Ishar bribed Battar to rejoin the Oathpact, as no one seems to have suggested that highly entertaining angle. 
 

On a more serious note, the most interesting thing narratively would be if she is a double agent and still works for Retrivangian. The specific mention of her reaction to the reforging implies that something is still up with her, while the other Heralds are more ”normal” again. 

Okay, so I’m finally done. Overall loved the book, defenitely better than both Rhythm of War and The Lost Metal. I liked the pacing, and felt very invested in most storylines.

Highlights for me:

*Roshar history! If RoW was the ”magic system”-book, this was the history-book, and I really dug it. The Heralds have always fascinated me, and so getting to meet more if them, including Ishar, Chana and the ”real” versions of Jezrien and Nale, was really cool. 

*Adolin. He stole the book, which I did not expect. But he and his defense of Azir was IMO, the standout storyline. Really love how he has gone from being one of the most powerful men on Roshar in WoK and then becomes a crippled pikeman during the climax here, which is where he finds true strenght. Inspiring stuff.

*Szeth and Kaladin worked very well together, and Kaladin didn’t really steal Szeths thunder until the climax, and then it was very motivated by both their arcs.

*The philosophical aspects. Really adds depth to the whole story.

*The very bold ending. Incredibly excited for book 6-10 now that Roshar is dramatically changed.

*Jasnah losing hard to Odium. Finally. Unpopular opinion, I believe, but I always felt like she needed to be knocked down a peg or two. And the debate between them managed to be one of the most thrilling parts of the book. 

Criticisms:

*Some modernisms in the language takes me out of the story, such as Navani worrying that Lift mooned people, or Kaladin referring to himself as Szeths therapist. 

*Brandons tendency to neglect interesting villains. Moash barely got any screen-time, and defenitely no resolution. El was built up to be incredibly stormin’ cool, but also barely appeared. Ishar, Neturo and Mraize could have used more screen-time as well (although I’m glad Mraize got a POV and his scene at the dead crustacean). 

*Venli (and all Singers) are still boring to me. Not a flaw in Brandon or the book though, more my subjective feeling of not really finding them interesting. 

I thought El was an incredibly cool character in his one appearance in RoW, and this second scene of his does not disappoint. RIP Jezrien (again). He seems like he is going to be a great villain - I hope he makes it out of this book and into the back five alive somehow. Also The Black Fisher, finally! 

I suspect that the important thing about the Shattered Plains has something to with Honor and his remains. That has to explain the shattering of said plains, and also the amount of investiture which allows connection. Might even have something to do with the insane size of the Chasmfiends. 

Cultivation breaking Taravangians mind into what is essentially two different psyches and then giving him Odium is an insane plan. Won't at all backfire on her I'm sure.

Just now, coolsnow7 said:

Melishi was bound to the Sibling, and was the only Bondsmith in that era. If anything this suggests that if the Stormfather played a role, the Radiants did not. 

My bad, haven’t read the first four books in a while (should probably reread WoR at least tbh). Thanks!

Stormfather likely killed Tanavast somehow. He is ashamed, he lies, and he doesn't want the power to be picked up. I wonder if this was something the spren did along with the Radiants, or even alongside Cultivation. Either way, his shame alongside Hoids "I actually missed his death, bummer" makes me think that there is a twist to Tanavasts death, and this is the obvious one. Question is why they did it. 

Shallan confronting Mraize is really exciting. Hopefully we finally get to see exactly what Mraize can do, I've been looking forward to him doing something other than playing dress-up and acting like a shady RPG-quest-giver. 

Also, I wonder if the Minks Herdaz-adventure is going to be another plotline, or just something that screws things up for our heroes. 

I think so as well - either just the Stormfather or, perhaps more likely the Stormfather along with his Bondsmith (Melishi) and possibly the other Radiants, as part of the Recreance. He said "our shame" after all, not "my shame". Another possible aide in the murder is Cultivation, whose suggestion that Dalinar pick up Honor was something Stormfather referred to as a "betrayal".

I think it's very likely  that Stormfather killed Tanavast somehow.

7 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

As the book is going to take place over 10 days, I can't see "during"

Fair point, although a lot will be going down in these ten days. 

But hey, crackpot idea - what if it's Ishar? He is scholarly and will be present for the Shinovar-stuff. Granted, the "Heralds-are-gone"-thing is a problem, but maybe he gets off on a technicality by renouncing his Herald-ness or something?

As someone who has always thought that Kaladin does a tad too much in the story, I sincerely hope that he doesn't become king of Urithiru. Feels too much, in my opinion. Also, this guy Dami, have we seen him before? 

Also, the epigraphs. The Heralds are gone (back to Braize?) and the person writing is a scholar. Going by currently known rosharan scholars, that would make Jasnah, Navani, and arguably Shallan into plausible candidates. Or it could of course be someone who becomes a scholar during/after the events of the book, by which point it could be basically anyone. 

I do wonder though, why does Kelsier want Restares/Kalak specifically? Won't any Herald do, or does he have a beef with him in particular?

19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes, that raises a lot of questions. I wonder if this somehow led to him and Nightblood separating. 

Nighblood be like "We were supposed to destroy evil, Gavilar, not summon it!"

For what it's worth, I think this reads like the Stormfather. He is still grumpy, still annoyingly vague, and still won't say stuff unless correctly prompted. The one thing that's wierd is his promise at the end, never to work with a Kholin again. What made him change his mind on that?

The Herald death has to be Chana right? The timeline is a bit muddy in my head right now, but this should be around when Shallan kills her mother. 

Vasher working for Gavilar is a bit surprising, but does clear up why he is on Roshar, although it's an answer that creates more questions: why did he help Gavilar? And what is his end goal now. Going to Roshar was obviously not just an attempt at a long overdue vacation. 

Storms, I've missed having these preview-weeks. It's been so long since Rhythm of War.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I don't watch a lot of movies, so I avoid voicing my opinion on the casting, but Roshar has an Asian-like population, so the only casting I will accept is Asian actors. And I don't like 100% CGI movies, sometimes it's too visible it's CGI.

Asian actors are the way to go, except for the Shin, a couple of the Heralds, and arguably worldhoppers, depending on how recognizable you want them to be between movies. It would be preferential to have the same actor portraying Vasher in both Stormlight and Warbreaker for example. 

As for casting choices, I will agree with OP that Sadie Sink would be a great Shallan if she was of matching ethnicity. I generally go with Hailee Steinfeld, but she is starting to become too old for the part. 

Other ideas in no particular order:

*Dave Bautista as Dalinar (pretty sure Brandon himself suggested this once)

*Charles Melton as Elhokar

*Chiwetel Ejiofor as Nale

*Gemma Chan as Jasnah

*Simone Ashley as Shalash

*Hugo Weaving as Ishar

I think it is worth bringing up that Kaladins perception of Moash, and willingness to deal with him, might change after he learns of how Teft died. That might, so to speak, be the last push over the edge for Kaladins ability to forgive Moash or see him as someone deserving of help and/or mercy. Killing Teft might very well put Moash in the Amaram-section of Kaladins mind. 

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

The problem with Kaladin in these situations isn't that he not violent enough, it's that he refuses to do anything that isn't violent. He could just capture people, but to hom it's either fight or do nothing.

It is incredibly difficult to capture someone like Moash, who has access to an Honorblade and Surgebinding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kaladin does as far as I know not possess enough knowledge to do that and make it work. 

5 hours ago, Ati16 said:

You have posted this topic four times. Is there some kind of technical issue?

I have had similar stuff happening to me. Probably just an accident. 
 

As for the topic at hand, not really. I see what you are talking about, but they are really different in manners, appearance and personality as well as backstory. 

On 2023-01-13 at 1:56 AM, Firesong said:

I am extremely worried about Cosmere becoming just something like Star Wars Legends, where it ceases to really be anything special and just something a lot of different authors become a part of. I love Cosmere as being Brandon's vision, not something that has a lot of different authors. I was fine with Issac doing some things due to him being a big part of Cosmere in general, but now he is bringing in Dan (despite not long ago saying Issac is the only one he trusts for it), which is worrying me. 

I don’t think it will be, and I do think some collaborations are a good idea. As long as Brandon is around to make sure that everything fits with the main vision things should be okay. 

I also think the theory is good, but I doubt that Brandon would do the same ending twice. If Dalinar becomes the Shard of War, it will have to be very different build-up and circumstances for it to work without feeling like a rehash of stuff we have already seen. 

I don't necessarily think Adolin should be punished for offing Sadeas. Not to condone murder, but given everything that had happened, and what Sadeas was saying, it was basically self-defense. I do however sometimes think that the plot would have been stronger if he faced some actual consequences for it, mostly because how it worked as something of a cliff-hanger ending in Book 2, and people spent three years debating what the fallout would be. The fact that everyone (except Ialai) basically shrugged and focused on other things was a bit of an anticlimax. But that has more to do with the storyline in general, and not so much Adolins character. I personally really like him. He is a good guy, and the journey from basically being one of the most important and powerful men in the world to having everyone and their mother powercreeping past him is pretty interesting. 

I'd argue the Cosmere would be a pretty fun place if Whimsy got to influence everything unchecked. But maybe that's just me.