Govir

31 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Huge spoiler for all Mistborn books:

I've read all the Mistborn books, and I really wanted this to just be something like

But that's because I skipped over the quoted text and thought you were just jumping on the Mistborn spoiler party.

4 hours ago, RShara said:

Quote

non·plussed

 

adjective: nonplussed; adjective: non-plussed; adjective: nonplused

1. 1.

   (of a person) surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react.

   "he would be completely nonplussed and embarrassed at the idea"
2. 2.

   North Americaninformal

   (of a person) not disconcerted; unperturbed.

Well now I am literally nonplussed...

My thought on this was that Shallan was sensing the "soul" of the city, not really a spren per say, but a "soul" like how all objects have a soul in the Cosmere (e.g. when Shallan Soulcast's the boat). We know Kholinar is old, so it would make sense that the soul is ancient. And the reason there is one soul of the city is because men think of it as a whole. It is Kholinar, therefore there is a Cognitive reflection as a single Kholinar. And yet the Unmade that moved in are even more ancient. I think that the Sibling predates the Unmade, simply because we know that the Stormfather predates Honor and that the Unmade are of Odium.

1 hour ago, Kered said:

I've seen it, but it doesn't dispel the possibility that he had it at one point or was the one that made the switch in the first place. 

There's a WoB on that as well.

WoB

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Questioner 2

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

 

8 hours ago, Llarimar said:

All right... that all makes sense .  I guess I need to pay a little more attention to my theories before I develop them.  I probably just assumed that lightspren were Truthwatcher spren because the Truthwatcher spren are described as "light shining through a glass." 

To be fair, in WoR, I thought the comet spren (that we now know as Timbre) was Eshonai. We don't see Timbre until after Eshonai goes into Stormform, so my theory was that parshmen "souls" were spren, and the Stormform spren kicked out Eshonai. That was all with just the information we had in WoR.

But from Oathbringer, it's clear that Timbre is a normal spren and not Eshonai. Timbre definitely crossed to the physical realm in search of Eshonai, but before a bond could be made, Eshonai took Stormform and eventually died. We know from the Wit epilogue in OB that a spren who crosses to the physical realm doesn't seem to be able to cross back (i.e. Wit picks up the spren that was forming a bond with Elhokar).

So all in all, your theory wasn't bad. It just didn't happen to be right (most of mine aren't right either!).

First off, I don't think it's the same painting. My mental image of the Warbreaker painting is basically a canvas covered in red paint, with a stroke of black in the top third. My mental image of the Oathbringer painting is a canvas that is mostly white (or unpainted) with a stroke of red and nine strokes of black. @hoiditthroughthegrapevine, since you seem to have investigated this, do you know if we get a size description of the Warbreaker painting? The Oathbringer one is described as small, which I take to mean something like 11"x14", where as the paintings in Warbreaker I've always pictured as much larger (like arm span wide),

Just now, StormingTexan said:

I also think it is weird that if it wasn't why would Brandon RAFO it in the WoB? We know from OB that it was from the Court of Gods why keep it a secret?

It could also mean that this is the first time we've seen the painting, but it will reappear later in the Stormlight Archives and have a higher significance. Or, it might show up in Warbreaker II (Nightblood?), and lead people to Roshar because of what they see in it.

6 hours ago, Patrick Star said:

Got to be Way of Kings Chapter 67 for me.

So. Much. Epicness.

Beat me to it, although I always think the events of this chapter happen earlier in Chapter 65: The Tower.

On 1/5/2018 at 5:24 PM, Stormrunner1730 said:

The most important step quote.  I've been quoting that to myself every day since I finished the book.

I've been wanting to post it to Facebook as an inspirational quote, but some of my friends read too and would pick up on it (i.e. they're not done with Oathbringer yet).

On 1/4/2018 at 11:03 PM, digitalbusker said:

I just came across this in my reread. It's when Adolin brings up the possibility of teaching Shallan how to use her Shardblade, in Chapter 15, "Brightness Radiant".

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"What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?”

“Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.”

She is totally suppressing knowledge of Shardplate right there.

The issue with this passage is that shortly before it Shallan starts thinking about how she killed her parents. Adolin is oblivious to this, and grabs Shallan's shoulders making her start. Then we have the passage you quoted. Then a bit later it says

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She wanted to hide. But she couldn't. This truth refused to budge from her mind.

So I don't think the heart beating quickly has to do with surpressing Shardplate. It just has to do with remembering killing her parents and not being able to shove it away.

1 hour ago, Kaleid said:

Is there anything inworld that suggests that all the radiant orders get their blades and plates at the same ideal?

Not that I know of, and in fact we have a WoB that they *don't* get their blades and plates at the same ideals (i.e. it was order dependent). Unfortunately, I have failed to find the WoB...

EDIT: This may be the one I was thinking of: WoB

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Kythis

Is there a specific number of the ideals that they have to do before they can get the shardblade?  

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on the order.

 

Most of the Bridge Four chapters got me, but specifically I know I teared up the first time through when Hobber's legs healed and when Skar semi gave up being able to draw in Stormlight.

2 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

this is the path squire -> radiant, like teft o lopen, i think if a high spren starting to bond someone he should be able to drew stormlight  after the first oath.

Fair, but we've only seen Skybreakers who have gone through this path. I think it's presented in such a way as to imply all Skybreakers will do this. I see them as not only law abiding, but process abiding as well. No idea what you'd do to attract a Highspren "naturally."

10 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I would assume it is in Ialai's possession as Sadeas was not wearing it at the time of his death. I think she should wear it  

I honestly thought she was going to do this before Amaram was brought into the picture. Take up the Shardplate and the Shardblade (once it was found). But of course she wouldn't as she's not a Fighter fighter, she's a schemer even more so than Torol.

3 hours ago, TheDoomsday said:

such as Skybreakers being able to use Surges before bonding a spren.

This bothered me for a bit too, until I realized it's just that they are Squires.

The Skybreaker's Oaths definitely seem different than the others. It is very structured.

• Ideal 1 - No powers granted, basically a recruit.
• Ideal 2 - Mentored by a higher Skybreaker, becoming their Squire (which allows access to Gravitation)
• Ideal 3 - Attract a spren and swear to a "cause" (Szeth is here, and swore to Dalinar). Allows access to Division.
• Ideal 4 - Personal Crusade (probably literally in Szeth's case. Shinovar will burn)
• Ideal 5 - I am the Law!

Coppermind.net's explanation of Skybreaker Oaths

14 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

He did? Amaram already had plate why would he wear Sadeas's plate? 

While this wasn't the original intention of the OP, I did kind of assume Amaram was wearing Sadeas' Plate when he died. But you're right, why would he be when he has his own? That begs the question of what did happen to Sadeas' Plate after Sadeas' death?

1 minute ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm finding OB more impactful each time I read it, this included.

I completely agree. I actually understand Moash's motivations the second time through, and it didn't seem so out of left field. (I still dislike the event, but I understand why he did it).

As to the topic at hand, Evi's death was perfect for the character that was built up. She was an optimist to her core, and that got her killed. @maxal had good points, but I don't agree with all of them (specifically the ones about how Dalinar and Evi viewed each other).

8 hours ago, Yata said:

If you lash an item too much times it would probably collapse or (and I believe is the case he rememebered).

8 hours ago, Yata said:

Yeah I know, but I am quite confident the example I posted was presented in the book. So maybe He remembered it (probably it's from the Ars Arcanum)

Are you perhaps thinking of the balcony from The Way of Kings prologue, which Szeth lashes downward many times and eventually collapses due to that?

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

True, but according to this:

http://faq.brandonsanderson.com/node/467

it was originally supposed to be Szeth. I.e.:

" Szeth originally died permanently in the end of Words of Radiance.".

Sanderson's decision to bring him back to life caused a chain of consequences that strongly influenced certain aspects of OB, IMHO. Eshonai's death was likely one of them, as somebody who seemingly fell to their death needed to actually die; Nale's expanded powers (as he had to somehow to foresee exactly when and where Szeth would fall in order to revive him), probably another. Etc.

Personally, I think that Sanderson should have gone with his original intention as Szeth's re-integration into the plot often felt awkward and contrived, despite his undeniable chemistry with Nightblood and Lift, but IMHO, YMMV.

While the re-introduction of Szeth to the other main cast was a bit awkward, I think having him be alive is the best way to tell us about the Skybreakers and what they're up to.

Also, I just did a reread and Szeth's meeting with the main cast wasn't as bad as the first read. He first approaches Lift, who he's already interacted with on "friendly" (read not deadly murder intent) terms. He flies around helping to retrieve the Ruby (King's Drop, I think?), but is still only interacting with Lift. After that is delivered, he's at the meeting with the other Knight Radiants, but is not outwardly hostile. Jasnah comments that the "storming Assassin in White" is here, and Szeth responds that Dalinar is now his master.

3 hours ago, killersquirrel59 said:

She already had her blade (3rd Ideal) when she was a young child, and we've seen her offer at least one more after that when she admitted she killed her father

I disagree that "I killed my father" was one of her Truths. At no point do I get the impression that Shallan doesn't acknowledge she killed her father. *We* don't know it right away, but Shallan does. I personally believe we've only seen her say one Truth, "I killed my mother." which elevated her to the 4th Ideal (1. Life before Death; 2. Something; 3. Something; 4. I killed my mother.)

Prior to that in the books, she was always at the 3rd ideal. It's not that she couldn't do a lot of things, it's that she *chose* not to, e.g. deep down she knew she could summon Pattern in less than 10 heartbeats, but she deluded herself into applying the restriction so she could lie to herself that it was just a normal Shardblade (because doing otherwise would make her face the fact that she killed her mother). I believe this caused a regression of her ideals (much like when Kaladin had his issue with Syl) but near the end of WoR, she admitted that her blade was not like others, thus fully unlocking her 3rd Ideal powers. Then, later in WoR, Pattern forces her to admit she killed her mother, progressing to the 4th Ideal.

A note on her Shardplate: It's possible that a Lightweaver's Shardplate *is* a Lightweaving, given substance via Soulcasting. Similar to how Shallan is learning to give her other illusions substance. Mastering this trick may be what unlocks Shardplate for her.

19 minutes ago, Aurora the Rioter said:

Thanks, this helps.  I guess I assumed it was shorter than it was.  I tried to pay attention to the amount of years inbetween flashbacks, but I was mostly focused on reading.

I never pay attention either. I used the Coppermind Oathbringer Summary to quickly search for flashback chapters.

On topic about the courting period, from the flashbacks we know that Dalinar met Evi 31 years ago (Chapter 19). This is when he agreed to marry her (at least to the Alethi). The next flashback (Chapter 26) takes place 29 years ago (so could be between 1-2 years depending on when during the year it happened), and it is stated that they are still betrothed (due to Evi's culture with long betrothals). The next flashback (Chapter 36) takes place 24 years ago (so another 5ish years), and at this point they are married and Evi is pregnant.

So nothing concrete in saying that they were courting for 3 years, but nothing that contradicts it either. I think Dalinar is remembering correctly that from point of meeting to actual marriage was three years.

28 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Moash's eyes were changed, just like Elhokar's

Is this referring to the fact that the eye color was given as one thing, then changed later (not because of a Shardblade)? And then the second part...

28 minutes ago, Calderis said:

but the eye color change from a Shardblade is tied to the order of the spren.

...is just a general statement that the order of the blade does matter for when Darkeyes bond a Shardblade?

1 hour ago, Aurora the Rioter said:

Also on a completely different note, Moash’s eye color changes.  In book one he has dark green eyes, but after he gets the shardblade in book two his eyes change to tan.  Shouldn’t they just change to light green if his eyes were dark green before?  I don’t know afterall Kaladin’s eyes are brown, but then he has blue eyes after summoning the Sylblade.  But isn’t the blue a windrunner thing?

I can't find the quote, but I believe it was mentioned that Moash's eye color in the first book was incorrectly listed as dark green. He has dark tan eyes. The common Shardblade (i.e. dead spren Shardblade) only lightens the eyes, so his eyes should be a light tan in color from the bonding (also unknown if they reverted after he broke the bond). EDIT: Found the quote. It's on Moash's Coppermind page, with a separate source of WoR Typos thread.

A live Shardblade seems to lighten and change the color of the eye to match the order (maybe, as Kaladin's are the only ones I can think of that are even mentioned), similar to how the shardplate will eventually glow with that same color.

1 hour ago, Kaleid said:

Or are the first five flashback characters already confirmed somewhere?

I'm pretty sure there was a statement (even before Oathbringer) of who the first five were. I can't find it specifically but here's a few relevant WoBs.

Source - This one is from before Oathbringer and implies that Dalinar, Szeth, and Eshonai are contenders, implying they are the 3 remaining of the first 5.

Quote

 

Questioner (paraphrased)

Will Book 3 [of The Stormlight Archive] be Szeth's book?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He used to think so. Now it might be Dalinar's. He is going to do the flashbacks for both (and Eshonai) and then decide.

Questioner [Alternate wording from stormfather's report] (paraphrased)

[The Stormlight Archive] 3 pov character? Some say Szeth others say it's up in the air?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said he's not going to canonize it or anything, he's also looking at Dalinar and Eshonai and going to see who's backstory fits the flow of the book best

Source - This one is from after Oathbringer, and Brandon does not correct the assumption by the Questioner that Szeth and Eshonai are the last two.

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sv15249

1)Flashback characters for books 4 and 5 are Eshonai and Szeth.In previous books "main" character got a role in all five parts of the book.Will it be the same for these two?Szeth and Eshonai are important, but had very little "screen time" so far.So, in their books will they get a huge role in main narrative?Or will they have flashback sequence only, but main narrative will still focus on our three main heroes(Kaladin,Dalinar,Shallan)?

2)How you deal with multiple POV's?Their amount increase with each book, which means less "screen time" for each character.I know, in series with such big cast, it's very hard to keep balance.What is your possible solution for this problem?Just don't say, you will kill some characters to free space for new ones George Martin style.

3)You said, there will be a timeskip between two parts of Stormlight.But will we have more timeskips between five books of each part?For example, between book 3 and book 4, or 4 and 5.Or between 6 and 7?I ask this, because in first Mistborn trilogy we had year long timeskips between each book.Wonder, will we have it in SA?

4)Is it possible, that main characters from first five will show up in last five books?

Brandon Sanderson

1) Having not read those books, I can't say 100%--but the original plan was to do it this way, and Book Three continues the trend. Shallan/Dalinar/Kaladin will continue to be very important, but I might pull back on side characters. We'll see.

2) This is the biggest challenge in writing epic fantasy. For me, I divided the series into two halfs (books 1-5 and books 6-10) with a focus on some characters for the first half, some for the second. But also, I do plan for certain characters to step back a little in other books. It's a balance I'm still juggling.

3) Plan is for book four to take place a year after book three, so there will be some smaller timeskips too--but the biggest is between five and six.

4) Yes, many of them will--and will still be important.

56 minutes ago, JoyBlu said:

I think it fits and that GLYS is a corrupted spren that is partly windrunner/???bondsmith??? and partly truthwatcher/Edgedancer. ( shared Progression surge).

Afaik, Glys is a Truthwatcher spren that has been corrupted by Sja-anat. He is providing the normal Truthwatcher surges (or at least Regrowth, since Renarian has yet to do any Lightweaving even when specifically trying). He also has the fits, which seem to be his moments of seeing possible futures and seems to comes from the Sja-anat corruption.

58 minutes ago, JoyBlu said:

So GLYS could be the coolest spren because it’s not predictable at following the rules of the orders.

But I agree with this statement, because so far as we can tell, despite the corruption Glys is fighting on the side of the humans and not for Odium.