Eagle of the Forest Path

I think there's been a bit of a miscommunication there. When you invest a metalmind, I also believe it is invested across all three realms (since investiture crosses the 3 realms anyway, it has to be). But the investiture over the Physical and Spiritual realms only acts as a link to the Cognitive and as a source of energy to maintain the additional information forced into the Cognitive aspect of, say, a nose-ring by turning it into a metalmind. In my model attributes aren't converted into investiture (well, the theory on the forum seems to be that everything is investiture at some level, but that just gets confusing), they're converted into information instead. If the Shadesmar bead of an item is like a piece of computer code (I'm thinking xml file), then it normally contains a number of data-objects that describe the make-up and history of the item. What I think Feruchemy does is add a data-object. (as an aside, what I think Forgery does is alter lines in the existing objects) Maybe look at it like a teleport. On one end an item is deconstructed and saved as digital data, then that data is sent somewhere else and used to reconstruct the item. But in Feruchemy instead of an item you have an attribute, and instead of sending it somewhere you carry it around with you. Does that clarify or just confuse things further? I'd considered putting this in Cosmere theories, but as I only talked about Feruchemy... I decided on Mistborn instead. Oh well... Breath and Stormlight... I don't know if you can say stormlight is stored when you've breathed it in, because at that point it's "active" (and also because it leaks out). Breath (which only becomes active when you use it to awaken something, but that terminology is debatable) is definitely stored across the three realms, which I actually deduced from some similarities to certain Feruchemical attributes. The Life sense from Breath seems similar somehow to Duralumin's Connection; so, Spiritual. The enhanced senses (colour, pitch, ...) are Physical, obviously. And the instinctive commands for Awakening you get at the upper heightenings deal with knowledge and are therefore Cognitive to me. Now if you hold Stormlight or Breath and store it in a Nicrosilmind (assuming that's possible, damnation those RAFO's) according to my model it would then cease to be investiture and become information instead, until such time as you decide to tap the Nicrosilmind.

I always thought the reason ardents aren't subject to the same rules is because they aren't considered either male or female, just ardents.

I'd like to explain how I see the mechanics behind Feruchemy. It's easy enough to say that it stores different human attributes inside bits of metal, but that doesn't really offer any explanation on how exactly that happens. For starters, how does it affect the metal when an attribute is stored in it. Since the metals remain allomantically sound, i.e. they can still be burned by an allomancer for the same effect(disregard compounding for now), we know the molecular structure of the metal remains the same. Nor are there any visible changes to the metalminds. This makes me quite certain that the attributes aren't stored in the Physical realm. That leaves the Cognitive and the Spiritual realms. Since not much is known about either realm, this leaves the next part open for discussion, so your conclusions might and probably will differ from my own.One of the few things we do know about the differences between the two realms is that in the Cognitive realm distance matters, while in the Spiritual realm it does not. It might be said that touching something could constitute a Spiritual connection, but to me it seems more a matter of distance. You've probably already caught on that I believe Feruchemic attributes are stored in the Cognitive version of a Feruchmist's metalminds. My main reason for discounting the Spiritual realm is that filling an object with a part of your self, is IMO a very personal action, which should create a deep and lasting connection between a person and said object. If the metalmind's Spiritual side were the important one, I imagine it could be accessed from anywhere, however, it is only with physical contact that a metalmind can be filled or tapped. So, the cognitive realm. If you accept what I've written here, this means that Feruchemy is the type of magic that can be metaphorically represented by a tube. Just like Allomancy and AonDor. Contrary to those two magic systems, where the power flows in only one direction (from the Spiritual to the Allomancer or from the Cognitive to the Elantrian), with Feruchemy the power, which is basically the human attribute turned into investiture, can flow both ways. From any aspect of the Feruchemist to the cognitive aspect of the metalmind when storing. And in the other direction when tapping. So attributes from the physical and hybrid quadrants go from the Physical aspect of the Feruchemist into the Cognitive aspect of the metalmind. Spiritual quadrant attributes go from the Spiritual aspect of the Feruchemist into the Cognitive aspect of the metalmind. The cognitive quadrant attributes stay in the Cognitive realm and only get transferred from the Feruchemist to the metalmind. (Leaving aside the Brass=heat mess-up) I'd like to illustrate this with a conversation inspired on one between a certain redhaided Lightweaver and a certain pointy wooden object. An iron ring in its natural state would say: "I am an iron ring." When it has been used to store mass: "I am an ironmind." More specifically: "I am an ironmind, storing 50 pounds of weight." And even more specifically: "I am Waxillium Ladrian's ironmind, storing 50 pounds of weight." In general that becomes "I am <Feruchemist XX>'s <metal YY>-mind storing <amount ZZ> of <attribute yy>." That <Feruchemist XX> part is important in the case of aluminum. By WoB we know that the metalmind checks that the person trying to access it is not <Feruchemist AB> or <Feruchemist QK>(for example), but doesn't specifically check that it is in fact <Feruchemist XX>. So if he can store away the "XX" part of his identity, a Feruchemist can potentially access the metalminds of "AB", because the metalmind can't check against "<Feruchemist _ _>". Now, I'd like to take a closer look at the cognitive quadrant metals: Zinc(mental speed), Copper(memories), Bronze(wakefulness) and Electrum(determination) ... I know, I know, Electrum is in the hybrid quadrant, but Brandon has admitted that was a mistake and determination should properly be the attribute stored by Brass. Anyway, mental speed, wakefulness and determination could be imagined to have a Physical or Spiritual component aside from the Cognitive one. Memories, or as I see it: Knowledge, is the Feruchemic attribute that is most strongly linked to the Cognitive realm. If you accept my theory that Feruchemic storage happens inside that Cognitive realm, this offers an explanation of some of the many oddities of copperminds. Unlike any other metalmind, where the attribute returns to normal levels when you stop storing, when a memory is stored inside a coppermind, it doesn't return until you retrieve it by tapping the coppermind. This can be explained by the more often mentioned oddity that copper stores specific pieces of memory(knowledge), as opposed to an amount of general attribute. I envision this as a pitcher underneath a running tap: if you pour water out of the pitcher and then stop pouring,the pitcher fills up again, but never with the same water. The other oddity I'll mention is that copper storage seems to happen instantaneously, one moment the knowledge is inside your head, the next it's just gone. It doesn't fade, it doesn't disappear one word at a time. One instant you remember the contents of an entire book and the next you have a blank space. To explain that you'd need to take a look at the nature of knowledge in the Cosmere, preferably after achieving a masters in philosophy. (and maybe saying a short prayer to Kurkistan, since he seems to have a handle on this sort of thing) Lacking a philosophic education, I'm reduced to relying on narrativium. So here's a little question about books. What would the Shadesmar bead of a book say? "I am a book."? "I am the book <insert title here>."? Would it offer a short summary? If the way I see the Cognitive realm is correct, somewhere inside that bead is the entire contents of that book, whether it immediately tells it or not. (as well as the entire history of the book as an object, but that's beside the point) Translating that from data in a book-bead to data in a brain-bead (i.e. a memory), what you are doing when storing a memory in a coppermind is transferring a packet of knowledge from one bead to another. You don't have to cross realms, you don't have to cross a distance inside a realm. It's not proof, but it's a start to explaining why copperminds work instantly. Returning from that tangent to the topic I started with for a final tidbit. Investiture. In my model of the mechanics of Feruchemy, the investiture in a metalmind is not the stored attribute that has been converted into investiture. It is instead a bit of power that maintains the additional information that has been added to the Cognitive aspect of the metalmind. So, a huge chunk of pretty abstract text. If you've made it here, I hope I made some sense, and I hope you can agree with me. If not, I look forward to reading why. Edit: I made the font larger (I copy-pasted this from somewhere, didn't realise it came out so small)

Presence and Awareness seem more spiritual than cognitive to me. I assume you planned for these two to be paired? (base & alloy?)

Hi, in this thread I'd like to take a deeper look at how I think allomantic enhancement metals work. I'll start my theorizing with Duralumin, because that's where the most relevant sources seem to be. Firstly, though it's pretty obvious, the faster you burn a metal, the more power you get. When you flare a metal, it will burn away faster, but you do get more power out of it, even more so when burned together with Duralumin. Here's the relevant WoB Second, we need to note that a quantity of metal has a predefined amount of power output. Whether you burn away a nugget of Steel at a regular burn in an hour, or by flaring it for 15 minutes, or with Duralumin in a few seconds, you'll always have expended the same amount of energy pushing on metal, as said in this WoB Edit: made the font larger for ease of reading

Hmmm, interesting theory, it rathers fits with their Rithms. So Dawnsingers would be sort of the opposite of Voidbringers? With good spren instead of Odiumspren (or Voidspren or whatever they're called)?

Actually on Nalthis the magic number seems to be 5 5 visions in austrism the 5 scholars a divine breath takes you to the 5th heightening... edit: the four types of Biochromatic entities plus regular humans, makes 5 kinds of quasi-sentient beings My theory is that every shard has it's associated number, Preservation's probably had to be 16 because of it's nature, using that to keep a link to Adonalsium.

Maybe they've got accent marks? like ¨ or `

In AoL at one point Wayne says it's difficult to get a hold of enough bismuth, but that's all I can think of as a quote. Agreed, but I think it's more likely these percentages, or very close to them, than something completely different. Burning the alloys from wikipedia might make you slightly nauseated IMO, but they definitely won't kill you, is what I'm trying to say.

That's how I visualise it too. The alternate power would be like you holding a rope tied to a fixed point at the other end, the metal is tied to the middle of the rope and you turn it to make the metal fly in a circle.

According to wikipedia, Bendalloy (or wood's metal in the real world) is made from 50% bismuth, 26.7% lead, 13.3% tin and 10% cadmium (by weight) Nicrosil is a nickel alloy containing 14.4% chromium, 1.4% silicon, and 0.1% magnesium. (so 84.1% nickel) Those are pretty specific percentages, so I'll bet they're good enough for allomancy. Brass and Bronze are terms too broad to pin down an exact composition.

For your swing metals, I vote combine vertical and horizontal of the one you have, and make that the pulling metal. So there you have the plane of rotation aligned with the axis between you and the metal. Then for the pushing metal, the plane of rotation can be at right angles to the axis. (I have a mental image but it is so hard to put into words ) I assume these would be affected by the same weight issues as ironpulling and steelpushing? Classical Sandersonian allomancy works with the principle of force being applied directly away from you or directly toward you, this doesn't fit with swing metals. The forces described there (Edronian allomancy?) are more sideways, so instead of increasing or decreasing an attribute it would be more logical for the other metals in this set to shift an attribute into something else. I propose an enhancement power that makes metals give effects from another metal. The pushing metals make the power turn into one from another quadrant (or octant, I guess, since we'd have twice as many metals). Steel: external physical pushing would express itself as the external pushing metal of another type: Brass, Bendalloy or Nicrosil (or one of four new metals invented here). The pulling metals make the metal shift inside a quadrant. So burning steel gives the effect of burning Iron, Pewter or Tin (or one of the two swing metals or two yet to be determined physical metals). There would be an internal version of these metals, where it applies to yourself, and an external one where it applies to someone you touch. I'll keep thinking on other 'sideways' powers, the temporal ones are going to be challenging. Edit: Mithril actually has a canon alloy (or derivative): Ithildin, the stuff on the doors of Moria that only reflects moonlight.

With Wayne as Bosley

Actually, yes. I believe Elend gives him a vial of metals to try burning at the Terris community (formerly known as the Pits of Hathsin) before giving him a bead of Atium. Demoux couldn't sense any metal reserves except the Atium.

There's a WoB on this, Vasher is using stormlight instead of Breath:

Spren are generally attracted to change, so slaves wouldn't normally see them, since apart from the moment of capture, captivity is their base state of being. If what Kal saw are actually captivityspren (seems likely IMO), they were attracted to him at that point because he changed from being (relatively) free to being captive. Also, because he's got a trauma about losing his freedom he felt his captivity more keenly than most, making him more likely to be able to see captivityspren.

More awkward than funny IMO, since he's dead. The most obvious choice for me would be Jasnah, she's (more than) halfway to being a worldhopper already. I would also like to see Axies the Collector trying to find allospren and feruspren on Scadrial.

The seventh heightening grants the ability to see how much Breaths are inside an object, it's not hard to imagine extending that to other forms of investiture. TLR's bracers are both metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes, and on top of that are made of the body of a Shard, they should be blinding if you can see investiture. It' not a big leap from that to Vasher realizing that it's probably a good idea to get them away from the guy trying to steelpush Nightblood. Edit: Of course, this is only of Vasher has enough Breath to reach the seventh heightening.

Like an onion. Less stinky, more likely to make people cry, and also becomes brown when left out in the sun.

Maybe Tin gets spiked out of someone's left buttcheek, uncomfortable, but hardly lethal.

Something might change. I imagine it as the natural part of whatever attribute you are compounding sort of atrophying over time. If you tap gold over an extended period and you finally stop compounding it, your immune system might be down the drain. Same thing for strength: if you're using bulked-up pewter-muscles all the time, the part of your muscles that's naturally there gets less benefit from exercise. Weight is tricky, but I imagine the same logic can be applied to most other attributes.

More like "everyone else", I think.

Some remarks: Killing the mind of a Shard is almost certainly a requirement for splintering it, but I doubt it is the only one. Ati and Leras (and Vin) - the minds of Ruin & Pres. - died, leaving their Shards to be taken up by someone else. If to kill a Shard's mind is the same as killing the Shard itself, that would have been impossible. This is a bit nitpicky, but the atium was only part of Ruin's body/power. Just enough so that Ruin would be equal to Preservation again after preservation gave up a bit of his power to create humanity. The reason Ruin had to work through agents was that whatever action he directly took with his power would automatically be countered by Preservation's power (acting without a mind at that time BTW, since that had been dispersed when Vin let go of the power at the Well). This would directly contradict Divine Breath being Splinters, since Endowment is still alive (and therefore whole).

WalDo is a Dysian Aimian?

I've read somewhere that they're vaporized.