Kynedath

1) On cycle one I targeted DeTess, my action was redirected onto Orlok. The role I was told he had was Gossip. On cycle two I targeted Shard of reading because of a correspondance I had with Orlok. The role I was told they have is smuggler. On cycle three I targeted Sart. I had had a suspicion of them from earlier in the game. The role I was told they have is Smuggler. On cycle four I targeted Coda. People seemed to suspect Coda at some point so I figured that I might be able to help like I did with knowing that Sart has the smuggler role. The role I was told they have is Gossip 2) Yep, you're right. I misread your vote count. That's my bad. Sorry guys! 3) Because this turn I've given them fair warning. I said I was going to vote on them last cycle. Plus there was the possibility of a bartender killing them last cycle in which case we wouldn't have had to lynch them at all. 4) As I see it everyone has been focusing on bleeder and ignoring the elims. Yeah, I'm kind of ignoring bleeder for now because I'm afraid that the elims are running away with the game whereas Bleeder needs to find and kill winsting to win.

Yep, I can do that. Could I request bodyguard protection this cycle? If Sart is bleeder then they'll want to kill me to keep me quiet. And if they aren't then real bleeder will want to kill me to frame Sart.

1) I can give you more of my scans, would you want that? 2) Actually, when I voted there was three votes on HH, four on Sart, and four on Pyro. So I didn't upset a tie, I tied everything up. 3) That again comes down to feeling bad for lynching them when they worked really hard to help us. I'm a creature of compassion, so sue me. 4) I disagree, it helps bleeder, but it helps the village not lose as well. It's a balancing act between finding bleeder and catching elims. If we focus to much on one then the other can run away with the game.

@DeTess I can't speak for anyone else, but by the time I got on the shard last night most everything had died down. There were three people up for lynch and most players had gone to sleep other than me, TJ, and Pyro. Sart I didn't want to lynch because I scanned them as a smuggler so their story made complete sense to me. I don't believe they are bleeder. Pyro I didn't want to lynch because they had been cooperating all cycle so not only would it feel cruel to kill someone who was working so hard to help us find a huge liability, there was also the possibility that they would be offed by a bartender last cycle. So that left HH in the running. I voted on them so that I could give Sart a better chance at living with their vote manip, and so that we didn't use our lynch to kill Pyro who a bartender could have legitimately killed. All that being said, I think it's high time to lynch Pyro. Yes, DeTess is right in saying that it doesn't give us any information outright, but it's an eliminator killed which is really the goal of this game. Bleeder is important to find, but so is keeping the elims in check. If we keep lynching trying to find bleeder then the elims will have a really easy time winning once Bleeder does die. So I think that we should focus on the elims. I am voting on Pyro and not someone else that I suspect because we know that they are an eliminator. Furthermore, I don't like the plans that revolve around them being one of the primary forces behind catching Bleeder. We will eventually catch Bleeder using abilities so long as everyone remembers to use them, I think that they've been focusing us on Bleeder so that they can stay alive longer. No matter what they say, they'll have ulterior motives in helping us with anything. I have suspicions, but I'm exhausted after not a great night's sleep, so I'll hold off on that for now. If I don't post my suspicions by the end of the day please remind me.

@The Young Pyromancer Could you pretty please green out your old votes?

Alright ladies and gents, I'm hitting the sack. Have fun with this tonight folks!

By mess up the votes, what do you mean there? What is your desired end state for the votes? And how do you plan on keeping it there?

Okay, I scanned Sart last cycle (I'm renowned) and they came back as a smuggler. Sorry this info came this late into the cycle, but I'm inclined to believe that they aren't bleeder. In the interest of tying the vote I'll put my vote onto . . . HH. Pyro, you've helped the village a lot with your info this cycle, so I feel like voting on you would be cruel. And HH has been active enough to contribute and put in actions regularly but laying low enough to generally not arouse suspicion. No matter what happens this cycle we have to start lynching elims next cycle, otherwise they'll be too powerful to stop eventually. And I don't particularly like the idea of them coordinating an attack on Bleeder and gaining information on the village without the village gaining info on them. I think that Pyro will be my first vote next cycle if they aren't dead, we know they're an elim and they have been working really hard to keep us on the bleeder train, which overall distracts us from focusing on eliminators, and specifcally them.

Alright, I've been away most of this cycle unfortunately (sorry about that) but I'm going through it and should be able to post with thoughts soon enough. EDIT: Hello new player @TJ Shade! I'm sure I'll have context for your arrival soon enough. Your icon looks great!

Ah heck, I tried holding off as long as I could, and here I am, only three days later and signing up! Oh well, this game is just way too good to pass up! Sign me up please!

I'm indecisive about lynching pyro this turn. On one hand if we leave them alive as a known elim then we can focus on other players and have good discussion that doesn't get bogged down with a surefire lynch. I really like that idea, I do! I think it would be a smart move so long as we trust the bartenders to actually kill them, which I feel is a reasonable assumption to make. On the other hand, I remember one of the games Aman did that, it was my first game actually. It was later game so it had more of an impact than it would probably have here, however it still had a fairly large impact on the game. and the elims ended up winning handsomely because Aman was so hecking good at poiting us in the wrong directions. While Pyro may not be on the same level as Aman, it's still going to be very difficult for me personally to ignore what they're saying, and I am afraid that they're trolling is going to subliminally affect decisions I make. Not to mention that if we leave them alive it will leave the elims with a player who can take the vote action without having to risk another stalker finding them. Sure there is an escort to deal with, but then it just turns into an IKYK. For now I think that the pros of leaving them alive outweigh the cons, but it's a close race in my estimation. So here are my other suspicions. Elkanah seems to be handling this situation pretty oddly, I think that their roleclaim is odd. Like wilson pointed out it is full of holes and doesn't prove they aren't Bleeder. I didn't suspect them until people started accusing them which makes sense I think if they were bleeder since the added pressure of being accused would make them crack a bit I feel. It would do so to most players. On the other hand, Elkanah did provide a possible explanation for their targeting of Araris, and there can really only be so many vote manip roles, and I have a hard time seeing Bleeder use their first action to not use one of their bleeder abilities. I'm suspicious of Elkanah, but at the moment I'm having trouble not looking at both sides of the coin and double guessing myself. I think I'll stop my analysis here and come back when I have a clearer mind. I'll pop my vote on Elkanah for now, but I don't know if it'll stay there until the end of the cycle.

I mean completely sound in that I can't find a logical reason to suspect them. Their IRL schedule was throwing me for a loop which I frankly can't argue against because it's an IRL schedule. And any other problems I had with them they've defended enough that my arguments don't really hold up too well. So logically I don't have any evidence against them. If you do then by all means share it. @Straw I will cherish this poor rendering for the rest of my life, thank you for gifting his gnominess to me.

Yeah, I totally thought Orlok was being sarcastic, that is 100% how I read that comment. Since coming back and seeing your recent posts I feel a lot less sketchy about you now I think, it was that one post with like two lines that had really thrown me for a loop. In regards to your questions to me, I must have totally missed them. I'm going to assume you're referring to these: No, you're not wrong about the way it works mechanically, however since you advocated for bodyguards to not protect people who had already survived an attack once it would make those players easy targets for bleeder and therefore take away most analytical merit to those kills. That is assuming that the player was protected by a bodyguard and not bleeder themselves. If it were bleeder who had been attacked and survived then asking bodyguards not to protect them wouldn't affect bleeder since they are not going to die from an attack anyways. Reading back on all of these posts makes me suspect you less, your logic in your defence is completely sound.

Alright, then a kill role I shall add. I can't just make it a normal kill role though, so I'll add a bit of flair. Maybe they can kill every second turn, but once 50% of players have been killed they only get one or to more kills the whole game?

. . . Okay! So I don't feel burdened with a need to fully justify my reasoning here as that has been done to death already by the analysis of others, but I'll clarify where I stand. I trust Karnage, I feel like they took a risk that has been paying off thus far. They seem genuine and I can't really see reason for an elim to do what they did. Plus it has all but been confirmed with how Straw and Pyro have been responding. I'm down to vote on Straw based on Karnages claim. And if Pyro isn't dead by cycle three then I plan on voting for them. I am getting bad gut vibes from DeTess. I noted my suspicion of them last cycle and that hasn't gone away, they've been a slight elim read since then. Plus this cycle I don't know how much I trust their claim that Fura targeted Araris. They could very easily just have said that to cast suspicion their way while still retaining plausible deniability. And when I think of DeTesses posts I think of more than like two lines sheepishly asking Fura to respond to an accusation that someone else made. That doesn't seem like their normal playstyle. I moderately suspect Striker, I can see them being an elim from everyone elses posts, but I'm not totally convinced yet. It feels like they are genuinely trying to figure out the best way to handle things and just didn't grasp the entirety of the situation with Karnage. Logically it's suspicious, but my gut is trying to tell me they're village. Maybe that's just a bias though, I tend to give Striker the benefit of the doubt for some reason. I trust Karnage for reasons I stated above. I trust Orlok, I don't think that an elim would put that much time and effort into those posts when they could be scheming and planning and conspiring in their doc. Plus their analysis seems really spot on even if we disagree on the infolynching issue. They have been one of the main contributors to the current lynch and they are condemning Pyro hard which - considering Pyros confession to being an elim - I think mostly clears Orlok. I trust Wilson, their reaction to Pyro and Striker have me trusting them, I don't think that they would argue against their teammates that vehemently. So yeah, those are my thoughts. I'll keep trying to post as much as I could, but I think that I'll only be able to commit to two more posts tomorrow. I might be able to keep up a little bit tonight, but eventually I'll have to go to sleep.

Winnowing? @Devotary of Spontaneity

Why were Sart and Araris linked again? Did they defend each other? Currently I have moderate trust of Karnage, I don't feel that the elims would have let them get such a lead on everyone else, even if they were a gambling tycoon. I also have a moderate trust of Straw since they had two votes removed from them. I don't feel like the eliminators would do that, it would have been an inefficient use of their actions. I know it isn't too solid, there are definitely holes in my logic, but that's all I can muster this early in the morning. I'll be back later on to hopefully have something more substantial.

The bolded part of this post looks to me like Araris is trying to distance themselves from Sart after they became a more viable lynch target. And like they're trying to do it in a subtle enough way that they wouldnt be noticed. I also don't think that you should be specifically looking for people to tell you what to do in this game. That feels real off. So between those two things I;m suspicious of Pyro. There is more stuff than that mostly outlined by TGKs suspicion, but then Pyro answered them and I am not quite lucid enough to look at that properly. I'm heading off for the night, see y'all in the morning!

Unfortunately in this game it isn't that simple. You can only retract your vote if you then vote on another person.

Oh boy! That's a big apology alright! I'd ask you to retract your vote, although it isn't quite that simple in this game. If you have any suspicions based on gut reads or logic, maybe try voting on them if you really have nothing against me.

Sorry, I'm not quite following you, I was acting?

Care to elaborate on why?

it stands for quick-fix and long game. There are three kinds of games on this forum, a quick fix, mid range (which is what we are playing) and a long game. Some games (typically long games but also some mid ranges) will have day turns and night turns, day turns where you vote and discuss, and night turns where you take actions, like in a regular game of mafia or werewolf. Some other games (typically quick fixes and mid ranges will have day and night turns combined into cycles where you discuss, vote, and take actions all within the same time period. so in games with day night turns separate we use the acronyms D1 and N1, or Day 1 and Night 1 to indicate the first turns of the game, whereas in games with day and night turns combined we use C1 or cycle 1 to indicate the first cycle of the game.

It stands for Cycle 1, or the first cycle of the game. D1 is Day 1, and N1 is Night 1.

infolynching is a term I've never seen used before, so this will be based on context alone from the discussion between Straw and Orlok. Seen below if you missed it, also as a reference for me when I writing this post. Infolynching is really only plausible during the first or second cycles, but even then I feel like it's weak. Once people specifically state that they're lynching someone just for information, all new information that cycle essentially stops being usable. Like Straw said, by lynching for information you are tainting the results and affecting how people respond, so yes you have the connections and positions before starting the infolynch that you can work with easier, but you don't have as much in the end since people an hide so well like Straw said. And honestly, I agree with Straw that that isn't the kind of attitude I want to have, especially cycle one. It's a brutal philosophy that I don't particularly enjoy, nor do I find it to be better in the long run. Lynching the player that has talked the most and interacted with the most players incentivises players to keep quiet so that they don't draw attention to themselves which just helps the elims hide better. Plus, keeping talkative players around provides more information in the future, more connections being made to analyze when that player does get lynched from acting suspicious. Honestly, this whole push for an infolynch is a really easy way for an elim to claim to be getting information for the village and instead just killing off a active player, which makes me quite suspicious of Orlok in addition to my other suspicions.