Amanuensis

Exactly what a Spiked would do. Especially the Inquisitor, which is what I'm afraid of. Trying to survive to an extra night so you can Spike one last player before you die? Thought so

That's chulldung and you know it it was obvious from the beginning that I was bound to be killed off early for this exact reasoning. No Inquisitor in their right mind would Spike me; they would encourage this exact line of thinking or kill me themselves if people failed to be persuaded. There's no need to apologize.

If anyone has paid attention to anything I’ve said this game, which seems pretty doubtful considering the number of votes I have on me right now for absolutely no reason, I am extremely opposed to lynching players simply because you consider them a threat to your faction. I have made it very clear that my primary focus this game is catching the Spiked, which is going to make them want to kill me anyway, plus since my faction lacks a Coinshot I’d hazard to guess two others have one and that they will want to use that kill on me too. There’s a secondary reason why I was so vehemently against this the previous cycle, and that’s because I want to avoid my death as much as possible so that I can actually take advantage of the role I was given. I wanted to hear more from my team before making this post but given how stubborn some of you are being I have no choice. We had hoped that me typing a convincing post about a player with genuine reasons would be enough to sway people. We were wrong. So I don’t have any other choice but to tell you all that I am a Seeker and scanned Orlok last night. I made it very clear on D1 that he was the player I was suspicious of the most and wanted to vote for. So I followed up on my gut and intuition and alas; it turns out he’s Spiked, but did not burn any metals last night. The fact that Mailliw decided to pull out lies and fear tactics to sway people away from him and onto me suggests that A: my faction is compromised by a Spiked and B: he’s aware and wants to save his companion and kill a Seeker in one fell swoop. Take that as you wish. I have nothing more to say other than doing what he’s doing, encouraging faction focused lynches, helps the Spiked win more than any individual faction does no matter what.

And yet a player who always very open with their thoughts and intentions is being lynched instead. Weird, that

Neither. Only one of my teammates is present, and neither of us are a Soother.

Is he Penrod? I had no idea. But no, that's not the reason why.

For those of you voting for me right now who are not a member of Orlok's faction, I would highly suggest you change your vote to him.

He's just bluffing and using fear tactics, Jaime though it's all an excuse to hide the fact he's Spiked, either way

Oh, I saw that. Like I said the other day, I completely ignore those types of things.

Mailliw's. I don't think he's said one accurate thing today so far. Also, what do you mean by holdings? It's clear by "something feels off" that you mean to say you're faction is afraid of me. I suppose this is the point where I tell you that lynching players for the sole reason that they are in a different faction then you is going to cost you the game. Players need to be lynched because they've done something suspicious or are clearly working against the village as a whole. I've already thoroughly explained my stance on this, and honestly it disgusts me how many people are choosing to ignore it. That's extremely disappointing, Alvron. The fact that you care more about killing me than another player who is both a member of another faction and suspicious, as well as that you're bringing a previous game into this one. Never thought you were the type to hold grudges

Well, I suppose I can't ignore 6 votes. Anyone care to give an actual reason, besides one that's faction-based or ridden with blatant lies?

Don't bother the man Rae, we don't want to talk to you anyway

Sorry; like father like son, right?

I just want to point out that other than being Spiked, the only way you could know this is if your faction has a Seeker, and that if they Seeked them last night that means they burned Tin and therefore sent two anonymous messages. So, don't expect a PM until D3 at the earliest Fixed it, thank you. I could've sworn that I saw her red his name somewhere... and to think, several of my Housemates looked at it and said nothing. Are they determined to make me look like a fool? :[ Edit: @cloudjumper It makes me uneasy how often I see you viewing the thread but not posting. Any thoughts?

Since I just saw this due to moderator approval, my only response is there's no need for me to manipulate your vote. Sorry to disappoint? Oh and, here's a tally cause I'm so thoughtful. Alvron (1): The Young Bard, The Only Joe (2): TheMightyLopen, Straw, Straw (1): Mailliw73, Amanuensis (1): Kipper, Dowanx (1): Sart, OrlokTsubodai (1): Amanuensis,

Well, I guess now is as good a time as any. Better late then never, eh, Orlok? For the most part my desire to vote for you is because you've been skating under the radar (total of three posts over 120 hours; really, that's all you can muster?). Now, I'm aware that a lot of players have been just as active, if not less (zas and dowanx come to mind), but despite me being interested in their opinions, I don't know them quite as well as I know you. Therefore, naturally, I'm going to prod you first. That and the fact that, unlike them, you did something that to me reeks of evil intent. First of all, the point in time you suggested this does make sense at all. If I'm not mistaken, you brought this up around the middle of N0, when the Inquisitor had no one to strategize with. No voting was going on, and even by the start of the next cycle, there'd only be one Spiked on his side. The chances of either of them getting put up for the lynch on D1 is what? Less than 8 percent? I could understand you proposing this on D4 or D5, maybe, when the Inquisitor has used up all of his conversions. But even then I can't even fathom what good it would do. In fact, I argue it would do a ton of harm to the village, despite your frequent talk about the common good. Now, let's say you succeeded in convincing the thread it was a good idea. Every member of House Venture, Cett, Lekal and Penrod is laid bare for the world to see. How does this help the Inquisitor? Well, for starters, they can see each team's player composition and be able to accurately judge who among that group of people would, or could, quickly assume a leadership position. Additionally, if an Inquisitor had said from the start, "Alright, I'm going to convert Alvron, Lopen, Mailliw and Orlok" but it turns out three of those players are all on a team together (which is certainly possible), well, that'd certainly be information he'd like to have ahead of time so that he can plan accordingly. Not to mention that if he sees a team that could be overrun early, he might decide to invest himself more in others instead, and just drive those three factions to eliminate that one. Either way, I'm pretty sure that any Inquisitor would prefer to make informative conversions rather than random gambles. And your suggestion would allow them to do just that. More importantly than all of that, it spells out for each faction where their focus needs to be. This is a faction game, after all. If everyone knows where everybody is from the start it would be so easy to decide who was the biggest threat and needed to be taken care of immediately. First of all, there's one faction that starts off disadvantaged. All it would take is two factions to openly agree to stack all of their votes on the highest threat player in the third faction to get them down to six. Barring soothers, there's no real defense for that. Two factions could easily take the lead and render the others useless, and that's the opposite of what we need. You say that making faction lists public would make people focus on the Inquisitor more. But how? Because everyone can analyze voting patterns? There'd be no use for voting patterns because teams would vote together, simply because of the fact alone that everyone but them needs to die. In the game's current state, when there's genuine unknowns, there exists an opportunity for Spiked to do shady things. If you strip them of that opportunity entirely, you give them no choice but to follow along, no matter what. If they didn't, after all, they'd only implicate themselves. The Spiked need to believe they have a chance if they're going to act rashly and get caught. Each House is large enough that they can police their own. Unless an entire House gets Spiked, there should be no excuse for the villager majority not catching them red handed. There is no problem with the game as it is now, in regards to finding the eliminators. I myself have written up and posted exactly what each House needs to do if they want to succeed in finding their Spiked. If Houses follow that until the end, or until situations grow dire for us all, then maybe I could see us doing such a thing. But this early? Please explain to me how it helps, because even your second post clarifies nothing for me. Significant risk of letting the spiked run away from the game? It was D1 brother and there was only 2 of them! I can kinda understand the bit about additional scrutiny, but the thing is... how do the two even correlate? A faction is going to be hesitant about lynching their own members. I get that, utterly and completely. But you know who won't be hesitant in it regardless of if the player is actually suspicious or not? Every other faction. The fact that I know everyone in my House means I'm already scrutinizing those players more than any other. The second one of them slips up and gives me a genuine reason to think they're evil, you can bet I'll bus them. So long as you are alive and are willing to do the same, you'll have no problem in your House. Isn't the whole point of these games having fun, anyway? Doing what you suggest would strip half of what makes this game unique away. I, for one, would be bothered by such a plan being followed through if I were the GM. Of course he can't stop us from doing it, but I know I'd be disappointed. There are plenty of elimination games on these forums as in, but a faction game only pops up every few months, it seems. I would think you would feel similarly yourself, as with every other player, so naturally the only thing that makes sense to me is that you have an agenda that would severely benefit from a faction list reveal, just like how the Diaggramists in MR10 were eager to see it happen. As of right now there's only a single agenda I can imagine that would benefit from it; the Spiked. How do you vote for a player for their views "only benefiting the Spiked" when your views do the exact same thing, if not worse? Also, this: What is this? What was even the purpose in this? I always had the impression that it was against the rules to edit a new vote into an old post after other people had already posted - especially right at turnover - but since Ren counted it I guess it was allowed. But still, who does this help? How does this help? It had absolutely no impact on events, just made some people think there were two Soothers when there weren't. Was that your intent? To mislead people, to cause confusion? Cause that kinda sounds Spiky to me. But I might just be crazy. Anyway, as of right now you're the best I've got. If you can explain yourself and your perspective adequately enough that I understand where you're coming from, then I'll likely retract. I want to be wrong about you. Want to just assume that you're playing devil's advocate. But even then, I really don't get the purpose. To see who would support a plan so clearly bad for villagers? I do things like that all the time, but even this... I'd say that might've worked if PK wasn't the only one who gave it the thumbs up, but there was so much opposition to it that... for whatever reason you decide to bring it up again? Help me help you, Orlok. Help me understand. Otherwise I'm going to have to see you dead, and I really don't want that. Not yet. EDIT: @OrlokTsubodai

Oh right, of course, you did sign up as a Penrod, didn't you? Not that I actually believe you're a member of that House, for the purposes of this game That being said, I was aware of the potential retaliation plan before suggesting it. I figured that the Penrods would discuss that in their doc before pointing out in thread and thus allow a non-Penrod considering the consequences of such a thing to bring it up first. Given it was you... hmph, I guess I could take into consideration the GM temptation to give you the House your character is affiliated with, but I think it's more likely that he'd either intentionally put you elsewhere or rely on an RNG for your placement. So for the moment I'm leaning towards you not being a Penrod. Maybe Venture, given you felt the need to remind Mailliw about the drawback after he mentioned attacking that House, but like with Mailliw's repeated obvious hints at him being Cett, it could be a ploy.

I was hoping that literally anyone else would have tried to suggest the House reversal for most other players that would have been a clear indicator that they were Penrod, but now I can't be sure if you're an actual Penrod or just countering the proposal to ruin my bait. I'm leaning towards the former, though, because I think you'd be interested in that kind of information otherwise and let someone else make the first move.

Dunno, haven't put the order in yet

Come at us, bros (edit: and sises).

I was supposed to bring it up earlier in the turn so more people could weigh in on it, but had become preoccupied with real life endeavors. While it's true that any House could jump at the opportunity to attack another one other than Penrod, this is the only cycle that we all know for sure that one House is behind the others. It's a very common strategy in multi-sided wars for the more powerful armies to gang up on the weaker ones, in order to remove less factors from future battles and allow themselves to gain some more strength for the endgame, other than deal with fighting three equal enemies at once. My main appeal with the plan at all was how I could totally pictures Houses actually doing this exact thing in Mistborn and that it'd make things a little bit more interesting than being too paranoid about losing a person to act. That being said, it doesn't really require a kandra to figure out player's House affiliations. Old-school detective work has already gotten me the names of a single player in each House, at least. As I said from the get go, things were quiet and I don't like quiet if I gave everyone all of the answers then there would be no real discussion. The point of suggesting the plan wasn't necessarily to encourage people to make it happen, either because I have a personal beef with Penrod or am trying to set up some epic betrayal, but to get people talking. I haven't learned anything new or interesting this night turn, and given I know I won't survive past N2 I want to get as much content to analyze as possible for my team. Inb4 I'm actually Penrod and this is just a devious ploy to make sure you're all looking for enemies elsewhere

Except that would be a terrible idea. If a House has two kandra, all they would need to do is use them to check what the opposite Houses (other than Penrod) did with their koloss tonight to find out which House, if any, attacked anyone other than Penrod. Betraying the other Houses in such a way would likely result in my lynch. I wouldn't suggest this plan and put my life on the line if my House wasn't willing to follow through with it. That being said, Araris already made a pretty good point about Penrod retaliating, and I'm less convinced it's a good idea. Will have to talk it over with my Housemates and see how players from other Houses feel. Also, how dies this plan help if I'm Spiked? When I suggested it, it was with the intention of only a single faction losing a member. It's far better for the Spiked if they organized it so each faction attacked a different one due to how many more casualties there would be. At least in this case there would be only one death, as opposed to two or three (no longer true, considering what Araris pointed out). So I'd argue that this idea was more anti-Spiked than Spiked, at its original conception.

Did you read my post on N0 about how incredibly unwise that is? Your faction not claiming their abilities, I mean. I'm assuming at least one person in your House did so it's probably not important that you didn't read it, in particular. But once again I want to reiterate that by your Housesmates not openly admitting what abilities they have makes it incredibly easy for the Spiked to slip through the cracks. That, and the fact that you can't strategize as effectively, but... oh well, I guess that's your decision to make. Since there was no opposition to the points I brought up, and that I personally believed it was very convincing compared to the alternative, I just assumed there that everyone had claimed in their Houses. EDIT: A bit late now, anyway. That means if the Inquisitor started in your House that he now knows exactly what he needs to claim to skate through this game. That second point, however, was something I did not consider. If they did do such a thing at least it would force Penrod to throw all their koloss at a single House, as they have no idea how many each House has left to defend. And once again that comes down to whether or not people want to take that chance; a guarantee to kill one more Penrod at a 33% chance they get attacked by Penrod at random. A lesser chance, even, if they attack a House that has enough koloss to spare 2 for an attack and match every one of Penrod's koloss.

So, it’s Night and everyone’s silent. Personally I’m not a fan of silence, so I have a proposal to hopefully spark some discussion. As we all know, PK was a Thug in service of Penrod. Given that PK is a player unlikely to be attacked by either the Spiked or Coinshots early on, I’m willing to bet that his House strategized around him burning his metal rather than flaring it, allowing them to purchase one less koloss for defense in favor of an extra kandra for information. If I’m right about this, that means that they are the most vulnerable right now; and that their vulnerability won’t last long. As it stands my House has zero intention of attacking anyone; keeping our Housemates alive, at the moment, is a much higher priority than risking all of our koloss to maybe kill someone. But, if we can enlist the help of the other Houses in this, we can all ensure that Penrod loses another player without any of us committing all of our resources to accomplish it. I doubt Penrod has more than 4 koloss. If each House sends 2 of their koloss to attack them, it will guarantee another player of theirs dies, while only one of our three Houses will lose more than a single koloss, based on pure chance (about 33% that you'll be the one to lose 2). In my opinion those are pretty fair odds, fair enough that I’m willing to discuss it openly. We all know that Penrod has at most 6 players right now, 5 if they were the unfortunate faction to start with one less member than the rest. If we do this, they are guaranteed to have 5, if not 4. By reducing their numbers now, that means the maximum amount of boxings they can earn this following day turn is 5 (from votes) as opposed to 6. Though that may not seem like much now, as the cycles go on, they might get left behind rather quick. In the long term this benefits every other faction. Additionally, the chance of Penrod having a Spiked among them at the time of presenting this post is approximately 50%. If there is a Spiked among them, there’s a ~17%-20% chance that the Spiked will die. In the unlikely odds that does occur, we will have a good basis of discussion at the start of the next turn; if it doesn’t, I’m sure just the very fact that I suggested this plan will get people talking. Thoughts, everyone?

Agreed. It was definitely an eventful first day, and nice to see a lot of players get involved.