Amanuensis

Evidence Against Elenion, Day 1 Addition First post, bandwagons on bard (he was the fourth to vote for him, the first Elodin, the second Ecth, the third cloud). Jeskeri trying to get a non-Jeskeri Senator lynched? I'm convinced of that, at least. If cloud is also Jeskeri then it could have been in defense of him, too. I have doubts that cloud is Jeskeri, especially after Ecth's last post. Second post, in response to Bard. Nothing too alignment indicative, except for the comment that Cultists "eat senators like me for breakfast." Important to note that the Jeskeri did not attack him N2, despite him being the least likely Senator to be protected. Bard responds to again, and Elenion makes the first retraction on him. Maybe because Meta convinced him that his part in the bandwagon made him suspicious, and he should change his vote? I am beginning to think so. Note that three posts later, Meta makes his first post and votes for Lime for putting a pointless vote on Eramit. Given how close these two posts were together (only two apart), and that length of Elenion / Seonid / Bard's posts versus the length of Meta's, it's likely that they were ninjas, so Meta had already been writing his shpeel about lime before he could see Elenion do the same thing. Elenion disappears for a while, but not too much later Ecth retracts his vote on Bard in favor of Kipper, while also saying that he's slightly suspicious of Meta without providing a reason. Now that I'm leaning towards Elenion / Ecth both being Jeskeri, suggests to me this was meant to distance himself from Meta. Next post of Elenion's is to tell the thread a vote tally is being kept up to date on the Senate doc. After that, he agrees with a paragraph I posted about why I think it's unwise to scan Senators. Maybe because he wanted to be free to do as he pleased with risking getting caught by an investigation? Main reason why I don't think cloud is Jeskeri is because Elenion was the first one to put pressure on him (though it could have been distancing, I doubt it). He was one of the most vocal players accusing cloud of being suspicious (deer in the headlights comparison) and it almost got him lynched as a result. Only, he didn't expect to be a Duelist, let alone claim and request he be scanned instead. This plan backfired on him (from the beginning he was making comments in the doc about making plans), which will point to his reaction towards the end of the turn, when it came down to either lynching Conq - a Jeskeri - or cloud - a claimed Duelist who was advocated to be scanned instead. Responding to cloud's plan to recall all of the starting Senators and only put confirmed good players in it. Is against this because he is a starting Jeskeri Senator and that only electing confirmed good players makes it impossible for his team to win? I think so. His argument here is very weak compared to the possibility that he has a strong vested interest in remaining in the Senate. Also, he claims cloud's investigation would be a waste. I responded to this then, but it definitely wouldn't be. It would put a guaranteed villager who can't die to the Jeskeri on the Senate, which is the last thing they want. Guess who was the biggest advocate of cloud getting investigated and elected? Not counting cloud himself, me. Meanwhile Elenion tries to fight it. Note: Ecth replies next, saying this: Trying to cast doubt on cloud along with him? Weird how in-sync these two players seem from the start, to me. Granted, he did have a vote on Conquestor, but that was early on in the turn and before Straw randomly came on and voted for Conquestor too, he was in no real danger. Could have been a prod for activity and distancing just like my comment earlier about him and Meta. Then, when both cloudjumper and I vote for Conquestor within minutes of each other, cloud for self preservation and me because I had to go and didn't want to risk cloud being killed while I was gone when it would have been much better for the village if he were investigated. At that point, Elenion comes up and adds his vote on Conq too, saying this. Elenion bandwagons onto a pretty much already decided vote, on a player who turns out to be Jeskeri. Him attempting to make it look like he's not Jeskeri by killing an inactive teammate? A definite possibility, supported by the fact that he continues to say that he doesn't trust cloud. Right after Elodin posts asking why I find him suspicious, Elenion says this. Looks to me like he's trying to encourage a villager to give him a new target to bandwagon on, who doesn't happen to be a teammate of his or a claimed Duelist who a lot of players agreed should be investigated first. Oh look, a post from Meta. Mentions that the bandwagon on Bard seemed coordinated (maybe because it was, and by his teammates, no less?). Here I think that he was seeing way too many tells of Elenion's alignment already and was attempting to distance himself from him, in case either of them got killed. This entire time he's casting doubt on the entire Senate (Bard, Aman, Elenion). At this point in the game there was barely any time for a vote shift. It would have looked suspicious if Meta piled a vote on Conq too, so I think that this entire post was posturing for him. Oh look, Ecth! Agrees with Meta that he is still suspicious of Bard (I know this isn't very alignment indicative for anyone else, but I know Bard is innocent, and therefore I think he was trying to add strength to Meta's argument). And within the same breath she tries to push the vote back onto cloud. I think he was surprised by how quickly a bandwagon formed on his teammate after his vote and that she wanted to avoid getting him killed if he could. She also says Elenion is fishy and aggressive, which considering her change of tune this late in the game makes me think this was him taking a page from Meta's book and trying to distance himself from Elenion too (likely because he already pointed out in their doc that they seemed to be agreeing too much about things). 3 minutes left in the cycle and he last minute changes his vote back to Conquestor, which is pointless since cloud didn't have enough votes to get him lynched even with the influence of a Landlord. Once again, trying to reap the benefit of claiming they helped kill a Jeskeri on the first day? Back to Elenion now... Last post for him this turn, in response to Meta's vote on him. Offers explanation for what he did (to give Meta sufficient reason to vote elsewhere next turn?). Not really understand all of these bits about tests and gambling, and I feel it's a weak argument for the actual explanation. He says losing his office would mean him getting killed, which really makes no sense, as that would imply that he would be likely to be attacked if he wasn't a Senator. Why would either faction attack him over other players, like any of the Senators (Jaime, Elbereth) or the "high-threat" non-Senators (Meta)? Need me to analyze more? Or is this enough? I should probably point out that in addition to being one of the players who clearly advocated for cloudjumper getting investigated first and then elected to the Senate, I was also the one that presented the plan to leave the Senate as it is AND only elect confirmed good Senators, to make sure that the Jeskeri could not possibly win this game. Granted, if this conspiracy theory about Bard and I both being starting Senators was true (which it isn't), the point still remains. Elenion has done many things that suggest he is Jeskeri. I have done many things that have not. No, it was not an elaborate ploy on my part. Sometimes the obvious explanation / easy answer IS the right answer. This is definitely not one of those situations where it isn't. Besides, the only reason why I caught Mailliw and Seonid to begin with, when you really boil down to it, is because after Meta was revealed evil the turn he was inactive, I was convinced the missing kill was because the Jeskeri never got on to put in the orders, and pointed out their connections to him. @Elbereth If you really aren't Derethi and you want the village to win, I ask that you vote for Elenion to be recalled. Otherwise by not acting you're allowing the Jeskeri to get exactly what they want. One less Senator and an Aman vulnerable to their kill, to keep me from further analyzing them. Also, if I do get recalled and you are truly not a Derethi, then they could easily kill me too, which given the fact that I caught both Mailliw and Seonid, I'm sure they would very much love to exact their revenge on me. @Ecthelion III If you aren't actually Jeskeri and you want the village to win, seriously consider what I'm saying. Do you honestly believe that it's more likely that Bard and I both started out as Jeskeri Senators and that he encouraged himself get scanned with the 40% chance one of us would get the result, and that the 20% chance where I got it and confirmed his alignment was what won? Or that Elenion is the only Jeskeri that began on the Senate? @The Young Bard, @cloudjumper, @Straw... you are the only three players I really trust are village right now. Will you help me remove the Jeskeri Senator now and elect Straw the next night to ensure there's no way they can win? Or will you sit idly by and let them have a chance at winning by letting them remove me (and likely get me killed) tonight?

Ah, right. Hadn't considered that they could only kill on even-numbered cycles. Well at that point what it comes down to is the fact that Elenion is wrong, and the more suspicious between the two of us. I have been avoiding analyzing him so far because of the sheer number of posts he's made, but it looks like I have no other choice, since unlike Elenion I have no teammates in a doc to conspire with.

Ah, I assumed female because of the avatar Brilliant only if neither of us ended up getting recalled this turn (possible with a tie). Except once again, what would be the point? If both Bard and I were Jeskeri, I would have never brought this up to begin with. I'd have let the village go on doing nothing with the recall, help lynch Seonid next day turn, kill you next night turn so no confirmed good player could get elected, then lynch Elbereth the next day. It would be 2 to 1 then. The only reason why I am at risk of being recalled right now is because I made an enemy of you (and by consequence, Ecth, who has basically spelled it out for us all that he is also Jeskeri).

Huh? I just said that if I was Jeskeri I wouldn't risk recalling him and just kill him instead. How could I kill Elbereth and Elenion at once? I'm pretty confident that Mek ruled at some point that only one happens at a time. Let me find the clarification. Just looked. Never mind, you're right on that. However, that plan still makes no sense. That would bank on me being able to convince people to remove cloud too, which would be pointless. Even if he was a Jeskeri too, having only one of them on the Senate won't win them the game. It would be Bard, Straw and I over him. There would be no ground for me to argue him being recalled. Yeah, I'd rather not "see" proof of that, as that would put the village at severe risk of losing the game.

Except it's you, Elenion, that is Jeskeri. Once again, that would mean the Senate began with 2 Jeskeri, which until now (until it became convenient to believe to preserve yourself?) you have doubted along with everyone else. Funny that your change your tune when it results in you being recalled before you can win the game. I severely doubt the Jeskeri have a second Landlord, but either way, it shouldn't even require a second Jeskeri to vote for you, since it makes the most sense that you are the Jeskeri between us. Once again, you're trying to propagate that both Bard and I began as Senators, AND the fact that his teammate received a scan, which are both extremely unlikely. Nothing to comment on here. You're right, Straw IS likely to be elected, and a confirmed villager, which is why I'm going to beg that the Kesegan Monk protect him tonight. Even so, see next point... Elections and recalls can't occur simultaneously. If there is a missing seat in the Senate it must be filled before another Senator can be kicked out. Therefore impossible. Nothing to comment here. Impossible outcome due to point in bullet 6. Same as above. I'm sorry Elenion, but there's no possible win for the Jeskeri in that scenario. Also, you being a claimed Landlord doesn't mean you are one. I haven't seen evidence of it yet. Voice of reason? I'm starting to wonder if she's your fourth teammate now, given how quick she was to support you over me. Which is a part of the reason why I did this in the first place; to see would go to bat for you.

Not necessarily. The Derethi just need to outnumber all other players. Getting a second Jeskeri killed after they just lost Conq wouldn't really help them. Not if they could establish an alliance. By revealing to the Jeskeri that she was Derethi by lying, that would encourage them to target a different Senator with their attack (myself or Bard). It would have been a lot smarter for the Jeskeri to have taken the alliance, too, because they would be able to hold knowing Elbereth's alignment in reserve for when they were absolutely certain she was the last one. That being said, I'm not entirely convinced cloud is Jeskeri. Based of early reads of him, I believe he is a villager. That would mean that the Jeskeri began with 2 Senators. If you honestly think that's more likely than Elenion being the only starting Jeskeri senator, I'm rather disappointed. How am I diverting attention from myself to Elenion? If Bard and I were both Jeskeri I would have never suggested recalling Elenion, as I could easily just kill him tonight. It would be a matter of convincing the Kesegan Monk to protect Straw since he's confirmed good, and it'd be over when we lynched Seonid. The only reason why I would vote to recall a Senator at this point is because I'm very confident that they are Jeskeri and don't want the village to lose the game after all the good work we've done so far. Do you want me to go ahead and point out all the reasons why I think Elenion is Jeskeri? Because I do have a list, as well as a list of reasons for why I'm clearly not Jeskeri.

I second this. Can we get him a last hurrah before he leaves?

Sorry, I understand where you're coming from, though I disagree that I'm tunneling. That course of events is the most logical, considering everything we know now. I am basing it off the fact that Mailliw was a Derethi Duelist and protected you. Why would a Derethi protect a villager? Their one win condition is to kill us. If they did not have a Derethi on the Senate already for him to protect, why would he actively prevent a non-Derethi from not dying? His role is useless without one of them on a Senate. If you weren't a Derethi he would want you to die to give him a chance of getting a teammate on the Senate. There's just absolutely no logic to support you not being evil knowing this. Plus, with the whole investigation thing, it's pretty much guaranteed that the Derethi would never be able to get onto the Senate unless one of them was on it already to have a chance of lying about the results. There could have been another cause, I'm just saying that's a potential explanation for why you didn't put the kill order in yourself. Maybe Seonid said he'd make the kill in the doc and no one realized he didn't get online that turn to put the order in. Maybe you were only active during the beginning of the turn and not towards the end to give you the opportunity to prevent the situation. Maybe there's another reason that I'm just not seeing. Either way, this doesn't change the previous point. My rock-hard certainty is based off of point 2 alone. I think logically, and logic says that unless there is a player out there who can counterclaim protecting you N2, there is no way Mailliw would have protected you unless you two were teammates. That being said, I'll make sure to look over that response you made after this post, since I never went back after chaos fixed it's wonkiness. The Jeskeri win condition involves killing all of the Derethi. Given you're a Senator, that gives them a second reason to want you dead. Meta was on the Jeskeri team, and I could definitely see him suggesting that attacking me was a bad idea, because it was obvious that I was baiting them. So, they went for you instead, the same turn he tried to cast suspicion on you (see his last post), hoping you wouldn't be protected by villagers and that the Derethi didn't begin with a protective role. Personally, I don't see why an alliance would ever form between the two factions. I just can't see the benefits for either team; but you're also the same player who asked the Inquisitor (if he was in our doc) N0 to spike our entire team, and even supported asking the Spiked for help in our doc later (granted you were the Spiked) but still, the point is, you'd more than likely go for an alliance rather than sever the chances of there being one. I... don't understand this. Why would the Derethi kill one of their own? And if you aren't Derethi and they kill you, why would we not lynch Seonid tomorrow? Because Jaime is dead, I received the result that Bard is a villager, and I have no doubts about you being Derethi. If the Jeskeri didn't begin with a Senator I see no possible way they could have had a chance at winning, so that leaves only Elenion, who so far has done a great job of helping kill the Derethi, but has done nothing that makes me think he's not Jeskeri. Unlike cloud, who has a chance of being a villager, I believe he has to be the starting Jeskeri Senator, and therefore needs to be removed ASAP if the village wants to have any chance of winning. I'm sorry, I really I am. I can understand the emotion you're trying to channel into this post to make it look like I have to be wrong, but you've pulled off a similar ploy way too recently (I'm the real coinshot!) to warrant me letting you get away with it again. Also, while I totally might still be upset about you completely annihilating my (what should have been OUR) team, I promise this has nothing to do with that.

No need to be nervous unless you do something that warrants severe suspicion, new players generally don't die early. There isn't really any SE-specific advice I can think of at this time, except be hesitant with trusting anybody without good reason to, except for a man called Aman. If you invest your trust in him you can't go wrong Seriously though, practice caution, but don't be absolutely closed off. I am a firm believer that some level of cooperation needs to be established on the village's part if they want to have a significant chance of beating the eliminators. No game is ever won because of a single player's efforts, and most of the time a lack of village coordination benefits eliminators immensely.

I'm on the 5th book of Wheel of Time now and can confirm that it fits your criteria perfectly. If I'm not mistaken, WoT was Brandon's favorite series and a huge inspiration to him, plus he even wrote the last few books after the original author passed away, so if those two reasons aren't incentive enough to read them as a Sanderfan, then I don't know what will convince you. Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne is a trilogy of books (The Emperor's Blades, The Providence of Fire, and The Last Moral Bond) that are pretty close in genre. Though not my favorite series by far, it was definitely good enough to warrant a read. The Powder Mage Trilogy (Promise of Blood, the Crimson Campaign, and the Autumn Republic) is also an option. I personally didn't like it that much, but the first book at least received some praise from Brandon, and apparently it's got a lot of novellas too that you can read for extra insight into the world and characters.

What would the Derethi gain by busing not one of their teammates (after their Gyorn was already dead), but two? I was the one that advocated Mailliw to be lynched and Seonid to be scanned in the first place. I could see the argument that I'm Jeskeri, but it should be extremely obvious that I'm not Derethi, at least.

Personally I doubt it's all of them, and I'd be lying if I wasn't a bit worried right now. I think I've figured out what happened N2, and it's not boding well for the village. Think about Mailliw's role for a second. What would be the point in giving the Derethi the power to protect Senators if none of them began as one? If the goal was to make them able to defend a teammate from another team's kill, they'd need a Kesegan Monk, otherwise. Given that most GMs would probably decide against that because it could have given them the option of two kills a night instead of one, it makes a lot more sense for Mek to have given them a Senator from the get go (since it's way too easy to elect confirmed good players, otherwise). So, this is what I think happened: Mailliw put in his order to protect Elbereth, the Derethi Senator. Seonid (being the Regular) was meant to send in the kill, but never got on to do it. Elbereth was too preoccupied with being Spiked in LG23 to realize there was no kill put in before it was too late to do anything about it. Then the Jeskeri attempted to attack Elbereth to free a slot up in the Senate, not knowing she'd be protected by Mailliw, and failed. Mailliw then tried to propagate the idea that the failed kill was due to Merchants to keep us from looking at inactives, because while I was wrong about the missing kill belonging to the Jeskeri, it would point us all at Seonid and him (just like it did) and they desperately didn't want that. There is no doubt in my mind now that Elbereth is Derethi, and I am very confident that it was the Jeskeri who attacked her, which means they were active enough to send in a kill. Given that I know Jaime, Bard and myself are all villagers, that means the only possible Jeskeri of the original Senators is Elenion, as otherwise the Jeskeri would basically have no chance of winning because of a combination of day-turn investigations and night turn of elections coupled with immunity. On this subject, I think this game would have been balanced a lot better if investigations and elections occurred during the day turn, so that the eliminators could actually have a chance of killing confirmed good players before they gained any more power. Now, believing that Elbereth is absolutely Derethi, that means I am less confident about the scan on cloudjumper. There's no real way of telling if cloud is indeed a villager, Derethi or a Jeskeri. I personally doubt he's Derethi, though, as that would mean they began with five members, which I feel is much too high in a game with two evil teams. Then again, I was wrong about the number of evils in LG22, which this scenario is most like, so it's possible that assumption could be wrong here too. If cloud is actually a Jeskeri, that would mean they were caught between a rock and a hard place from the start (Rock: cloud was about to be lynched, so he revealed he was a duelist and asked to be scanned to be kept alive, hoping that his Senator teammate would receive the result. Hard place: Conq was then the next best candidate for the lynch, and Elenion was forced to choose between killing one of his teammates, something the Jeskeri would want to avoid, or drawing suspicion to him by switching the lynch last minute to a third player, which I think can explain his scrambling there at the end). If this is the case, as a Derethi receiving the scan of a Jeskeri, Elbereth really would have two options. Tell the truth and get him lynched to gain trust, or lie to put the villagers at a disadvantage and maybe establish an early alliance. I could definitely see her choosing the latter before the former, especially with Mailliw there to protect her in case the Jeskeri decided to attack instead (which would effectively prove she was not Jeskeri, perhaps not as well as killing one of them, but enough for her to argue being soft-cleared as a result, if need be). Elbereth no longer has Mailliw to protect her from an attack, so if both cloud and Elenion are Jeskeri and she is attacked by them tonight, lynching Seonid tomorrow would result in a win for them (2 Jeskeri Senators versus 2 village Senators). If she isn't attacked tonight and we lynch Seonid tomorrow, that leaves the Senate full and her with no protection, therefore the Jeskeri could attack her then and win, too. Either way, I think it's essential that we recall one of them right now, if we don't want to be at risk of a Jeskeri win. Personally I'm going to vote to recall Elenion, because I'm more certain he is Jeskeri (unlike cloud, who has a chance of being innocent, whereas I see no way that Elenion possibly could be, knowing now that Elbereth is Derethi). This will leave at least two villagers on the Senate, one Derethi, and one maybe-Jeskeri. So no way they can win unless Bard is killed before Elbereth dies.

I'm willing to admit that I'm simultaneously ecstatic and horrified to see how this game plays out. Sign me up as Father Mai, a Korathi Priest who's totally not Tanavast in disguise. 'd by Magestar. Happy to see you finally joining us!

I can confirm that he absolutely is.

I might be misremembering that, then. I actually don't even remember you mentioning it at all, tbh. I just remember me saying it and Mailliw posting that it was his first thought, too.

Well, when you're in that outed eliminator state, you can do two things, really. Lie through your teeth to keep them guessing / confused, or give them a part of the truth, if not all of it, to make them think you're lying and drive them to act a certain way. A good example is LG21 when I told the thread not to lynch DC because he was a villager. They went ahead and lynched him anyway, despite me being completely honest. So then it comes down to what Mailliw thinks the village would believe; he was laying down a false trail with hopes of convincing us to kill you when really you're innocent, or hoping for us to believe that's what he wanted and thus ignore you when you're actually Derethi, too. I haven't quite dismissed that you could be innocent quite yet. I just don't really get why they'd fake a WGG, especially with their Gyorn already revealed. The only real point in your favor in my mind right now is how Mailliw immediately latched on to the possibility of a WGG the next day. But if I recall correctly, he later said he was less suspicious of you than he was me, and that he didn't want me protecting myself over other Senators. Sooo, I dunno. I'll do some thorough analysis soon before I decide which I believe for certain. Either way, Seonid is guaranteed evil so we need to get rid of him first. So really it'll come down to if we want to scan you or Emily/Sart/Orlok next. But that's something to be finalized during the day turn, I think, after we see what the Derethi / Jeskeri decide to do with their kills.

I mean, you should know, shouldn't you? Mailliw did protect you, after all. While he could have been lying, he said that he had the order in to protect you before his teammates decided to attack you. I can't see any reason why he would use his ability on a villager unless he intended to make it look like a WGG, hoping we'd waste a turn lynching you. But even that seems wasteful, considering they could have just killed you or someone else that turn instead, and been a lot further ahead for it. I believe it's a lot more likely that they wanted to deter you from getting scanned by making it look like the eliminators wanted you dead.

Two for one? Perfect! @Elbereth what timezone is Seonid? Also, thank you very much for helping get things moving again @Alvron

I was also the first Senator to push Conq's lynch but that comes down to whether or not I'd be willing to bus a teammate, inactive or not. Considering I lost both LG17 for doing that to Rae and my team was unable to win in QF16 because Joe did it to me, I'd argue that I'd never seriously consider it.

Accuse away I'm totally tunneling on you. Elenion and you are the only possible starting eliminator Senators at this point, and I just find you more suspicious than him. I'll have to read and respond to that big response you made (and broke the thread with), and analyze him, before I decide which of you two is teh evilz for sure. I'll probably tackle it tomorrow since I've got another essay to be working on. While that would be pretty awesome, I was the one that instigated this entire lynch on Mailliw in the first place, and I've long learned my lesson about busing teammates from LG17. I play these games to win, and I find that tactic is definitely not worth it.

Ah, was she? I actually hadn't noticed her even mentioning him. I'll have to go look back at that, too >.> why did you protect El, then? You said you put in that order, yeah? I would have used it to encourage us to swap the lynch to the scan, at least. Could have got someone not on your team (likely Seonid or Emily) killed before you and given you another night turn to use your powers. I think the next LG signups will be posting soon. When do you leave again?

I would have appeared in the write-up as attacked like Elbereth if they did. So no. Why attack Jaime and Elbereth then, though? They were both pretty obvious for being on the Senate alone. I honestly would have expected the Derethi to go for general population because of the fact attacks on Senators would be more predictable. Well feel free to give me more samples to work with I just remembered this is supposed to be your last game, isn't it? Agh, sorry, should have given you a couple more cycles at least.

A big reason why I think the Jeskeri were inactive is because I was fairly certain they'd want to kill me over any of the other Senators, given how from the get go I was putting plans in motion to keep them from winning. I even told cloud in threat not to bother protecting me, which was basically me begging for them to attack. I was hoping it'd draw the Derethi too, but ya'll apparently decided to go for Elbereth instead, which is why I believed ya'll scanned me D1 and found out my role. It is fun, isn't it? I'm pretty experienced with that sorta thing though, so I'm sure I'll figure out your true intent once I consider the things I would say and do in your shoes. Are Merchants basically the vanilla roles this game? It seems like there's a lot of them. That or they have really bad luck.

Well, the original question wasn't really what got me too concerned about it. It was your insistence that it was the cause. Let me see if I can find the posts, exactly. It was these two posts that made me want to pursue you over the others. I just really got the feeling you were trying to take advantage of Meta's unexpected death and avoid the players who were inactive that turn from getting targeted. Funny thing is, Elenion nearly made me switch my scan / lynch votes between Seonid and you in the doc, but fortunately I ended up convincing him to stick with it, first. If Seonid turns out to be a Jeskeri then we've got a great target next, and if not another guaranteed villager (and a helpful one) to elect to the Senate. Which leaves Emily, Sart and Orlok as good scan / lynch target for the rest of the Jeskeri. That is, assuming that you're not just lying about the Derethi attacking and protecting Elbereth. Hmm... what role does that make you then, Duelist or Kesegan Monk? I'm guessing Duelist because if I was an evil Kesegan Monk I'd have been killing villagers from the start. I bet you're honestly pretty happy about this delayed turn now you've got me second guessing my theories, and now wondering if the thing on Elb really WAS a WGG, or if it really was poor communication on ya'lls part and you're trying to take advantage of that. Can you at least tell me if I was right about eramit scanning me D1?

If there were more tells that was the only one I noticed. I really need to go back and analyze more people like I did Elbereth soon... I doubt I would have caught Meta anytime soon if you guys didn't kill him, so thanks for that, at least. Funny how it inevitably led to you, though