Amanuensis

Inactivity could be a factor. Can someone at some point today go through the player list and see who hasn't been participating much, if at all? I doubt Investiture is a problem for Rayse or his Champion (the two players who I reckon would be making the kills). Rayse himself would likely have an ability that can empower his Champion (apparently Wax gained a sudden burst of Investiture from Harmony last turn, so I'm guessing that other shards with Champions can do the same). I wouldn't be surprised if Joe was Odium's Champion, given the fact he doesn't seem concerned with Investiture or laying low (not that he had much of a choice after failing to kill PK). Harmony also informed me that if Wax is killed by the Champion of Odium, he loses all of his Investiture, but if Wax dies by any other means he can select a new one from whoever's alive, at the cost of a decent chunk. As you might guess, the same thing applies to Rayse and his Champion, but I doubt he could convert anyone who wasn't already on his team, apart from maybe those Independents that have an [Evil] tag

I am going to vote for Joe as well, partly because I am suspicious of the fact he is described as "malicious darkness" in the write up, and partly because of a culmination of other factors I will have to articulate later since I really should be asleep right now. Mostly, I would like some context about why he is hunting down the Ghostbloods. Speaking of, @Dalinar Kholin, am I right about you being the last Ghostblood, or at least one of? I swear i saw you post their name in pink before anyone else, and then noticed you edited it to black shortly after. On D1 I accidentally did the same thing when I colored Adonalsium with the Children's green, so it made me believe you went through a similar "oh crap" moment. I then told my PM about it, which included PK, who promptly asked Joe in thread, to which after a short delay he said pink, which meant either he was telling the truth or that one of the very few players at the time were a spy for him. Bard later confirmed he saw pink when he scanned Mage. If I'm right about you being a Ghostblood, I am willing to help you avenge your teammates by lynching him in exchange for a public release of your factions win con and all of the characters that your PM suggests are in this game. I would also love to hear anything else you're willing to share, but those are the two things I'm interested in primarily. If I'm wrong about you being a Ghostblood... well, then you have a LOT of explaining to do about why you used that particular shade of pink.

Woooooh. Welcome to the party Dani. Have a vote... and a retraction. Dani.

Yeah, those two items combined pretty much confirm Lucy's role, as far as I'm concerned. Considering that Odin gave up his life to Dr. Occulta, I doubt he was anything other than Independent, though I suppose he could have been a Child. For the record, Odin didn't tell us ahead of time what he was planning, but he did make comments that gave me the impression he had little interest in fighting this war. As a result, I would guess the death tally is at 2 Ghostbloods and 1 Independent so far. Given it is now the Third Day and thirty of us are still left, we don't seem to be too bad of a position. I'm hoping that someone will have useful information to bring forward today, but if not, I am on Scadrial with twelve others, at least one of which is likely to be evil, and have enough charges of "Feruchemical Tin" to learn a good deal of information. If I'm lucky (which I undoubtedly am; you have heard my many titles, yes?), then I suspect we will find the first of Rayse's allies this time tomorrow, if we fail to catch one today.

I think that the Domi being short for Dominion was a bit of a Red Herring on Brandon's part. Either way, in the context of the story, I believe that the Cognitive Shadows did not choose those names. Those names were attributed to them by the beliefs of the ordinary people. In both Jaddeth and Domi's case, they don't appear to have a physical form like the Seons or Skaze do (or, at least, we see nothing that suggests it), but if this theory is right (as well as if you accept the voice in the Lake / Pool was Aona's Cognitive Shadow) then they have to be paying some attention to things, and in Jaddeth's case, directly influencing them. Well, while I believe they're Cognitive Shadows, it doesn't necessarily mean either of them merged with any Splinters. If they did, they'd likely have a physical presence, like the Stormfather, which we have no reason to believe right now. Even so... when I imagine Shattering or Splintering, I literally picture taking a plate and throwing it on the ground. The plate doesn't break evenly, and likewise, I don't think each Shard and Splinter would be born with an equal amount of Investiture. It doesn't really seem that way, since there's never a mention of Seons or Honorspren coming in different sizes, but I wouldn't really surprised if there were "bigger" Seons on Sel doing their own thing, just like the Stormfather is technically a bigger Splinter of Honor fused with his Cognitive Shadow. Assuming that these Cognitive Shadows did NOT fuse with any Splinters, which I believe is the case, then they would technically exist only Cognitively; they would be able to affect the people in the Physical Realm in a similar way that Kelsier stops Vin from speaking to Hoid. I suspect that both Jaddeth and Domi "touched" people in this manner, leading them to believe those feelings came from God. Because Jaddeth managed to select a "Prophet" who fit the idea of Dominion rather well and then used him to begin conquering the world, Shu-Dereth's influence spread much faster than Domi's, which with every conversion makes Jaddeth himself more powerful. Then, when the entire world believes in Jaddeth, he will be able to manifest himself in a similar way that Spren can manifest on Roshar. Hence "He is said to slumber in the earth, waiting for a time when the whole world worships him to return and rule the world." Well, by the time Skaze was killed by Odium, I imagined he would have been affected enough by Dominion that his Cognitive Shadow could be considered "domineering." It is also possible that in the beginning Jaddeth wasn't that cruel and controlling, but as he gained power, more people (maybe those who had recently been conquered, or those who were watching Wyrn conquer from the outside, fearing him turning on them) began to perceive Jaddeth in that light, which subsequently affected his personality. If I recall correctly, what people believe as a collective can have a huge impact on this sort of thing, and I'd imagine this would be especially true on a planet who's Cognitive Realm is as chaotic as Sel's. Ah, yes. That was a mistake on my part. I have since edited it to say "Spren of Cultivation." My theory isn't that Jaddeth or Domi have control over the Dor; they were probably too weak, or unable to reach it, when their Splintering first occurred. I only believe that they're Cognitive Shadows who are affecting individual people and events to fulfill the Shard's last wishes. I don't think either are necessarily powerful beings. But as the belief in them spreads, they simply become able to affect a greater number of individuals, and if the dictations of Shu-Dereth are slightly accurate, it's possible they might be able to manifest themselves someday. I'm actually not sure if it was intentional or not. Does anyone else know?

7 upvotes for Wilson saying I should never be trusted? Really feeling the love, guys . Either way, I'm trying to mitigate as much of this Aman text as possible, so I'll keep this sort and end this conversation here. I feel pretty strongly about not going to acknowledge other games when it comes to analysis in current ones. From what I recall, I've never seen someone actually get caught red handed this way. People tend to learn from past mistakes, and talk about this sort of thing just bogs up what really matters. EDIT: Make that 8.

Background Just before the 10th Anniversary Leatherbound Elantris was released, @Yata had been conceiving a theory regarding the nature of the Dor, which prompted me to ask Brandon a question in an attempt to gather some information that might aid him. When I received my signed copy in the mail, I shared the results with him immediately, and had intended to post about it shortly after, but for one reason or another never got to it. After finishing work this morning, I had found one of my coworkers had read the Stormlight Archive, and decided to lend him my copy of Elantris so that I could open his eyes up to the whole Cosmere... but first, I decided, I would finally take the picture and post it for all to see. This inevitably led me to getting in a discussion about the Dor with another member of this forums, @The Young Bard. During our conversation, I had a thought that I'm genuinely surprised has not been mentioned before (it's possible it has, but after some searching I've yet to find anything that matches it exactly). Personalized Leatherbound For those interested, my question and a picture of Brandon's answer will be in the following spoiler: Theory As the title states, I now believe that specifically Jaddeth, and potentially Domi, are the Cognitive Shadows of Skai and Aona respectively. The theory began when I read this exerpt from the Coppermind about Jaddeth: Emphasis mine. Immediately two separate thoughts crossed my mind upon reading this statement. First, that "the Skaze have a large amount of influence on most politics and most working in Fjordell." Second, that "the Stormfather is the Cognitive Shadow of Honor." Exploring those thoughts further, we know that the Skaze are Splinters, similar to the Honorspren on Roshar. We know that the Honorspren are loyal to the Stormfather, due to him being a cognitive remnant of their original (whole) form. We also know that through Honor's Intent, the Stormfather is required to bestow visions upon a man that meets a certain set of requirements (most recently, Dalinar). As a result, I suspect that Jaddeth is Skai's Cognitive Shadow, and that Wyrn is Jaddeth's Dalinar; a "prophet" who's purpose is to fulfill Dominion's last wishes, along with his Cognitive Shadow and subsequent Splinters. Just this morning, I read @VirtuousTraveller's theory about The Origin of the Dor, and I'm starting to believe that this might be true. From Bands of Mourning, we know that when a person dies, their spiritual aspect (innate investiture) returns to its original source to be distributed again, while their cognitive aspect moves on to the Beyond. When Odium Splinters another Shard, we know that their Cognitive Aspect is broken into many tiny pieces (Spren, Seons, Skaze), which end up being manifested in the Physical Realm. In the case of Devotion and Dominion, I believe all of their Spiritual Essence culminated in the Cognitive Realm, due to the nature of their relationship, and inevitably fused together, creating the shard of Unity. Meanwhile, their individual Cognitive Aspects became their respective Splinters, and a Cognitive Shadow was left behind. These Cognitive Shadows would then become altered by the two branches of the Shu-Keseg religion (Dereth and Korath, aka unity through domination and unity through love). Both of these Cognitive Shadows wish to achieve the same thing; unity. Except without Skai and Aona's personalities to control them, they seek a means to achieve those goals through their own specific intents, and sadly, as of Elantris, it's clear that Dominion is winning. It has been discussed before that all Elantrians are chosen because they are "devoted" to something in some way, yet it still appears random because not everyone who is devoted is affected by the Sheod. Though I never made the connection before, this reminds me a lot of Endowment and the Returned. We know that Endowment specifically asks people who sacrifice their lives for a cause to become Returned. However, given how few Returned there are, I imagine that not everyone who dies in a heroic way gets this offer. Perhaps a lot of them refuse it, but I am sure that if given the chance, most people who would earn that gift in the first place would be the type to take on the responsibility of stopping a future (cataclysmic) event. I believe that Domi, the Cognitive Shadow of Aona, is doing the same thing, except instead of asking she is thrusting the power upon those she deems worthy. This likewise matches what Nightwatcher, who is thought to be a Spren of Cultivation, is doing by granting her boons and curses. It also would serve to explain why only certain races are able to become Elantrians; Arelon, Teod, and Duladel are the last countries in the world to believe in her (or in Duladel's case, the idea of a unified Overspirit?). I would not be surprised if this has been discussed before, or at least some variation of it, but in the case of Jaddeth and Wyrn for sure, this is my headcannon for what's going down. I would love to hear what others think, positive or negative, and likewise would appreciate it if someone asked one of the following questions in the future, or something akin to them. Is Wyrn to Jaddeth what Dalinar is to the Stormfather? Is Jaddeth the Cognitive Shadow of Skai? Does Aona's Cognitive Shadow decide who becomes an Elantrian? Is the voice Raoden hears when he enters the Lake / Pool Aona's Cognitive Shadow?

Oh my God Beyond, I think you might be right! That does sound impossible. Honestly, I feel like you are all playing some kind of practical joke on me. I could see how you might find it comical, but all this talk about an Amanuensis is swiftly becoming disheartening. What did you want me to respond to? Last time I tried to use things I've done in past games to prove I'm innocent, people yelled at me. I'm not going to acknowledge the same thing when someone's using something I've done in the past against me. Either way, I was village that game, and that was my primary focus because I knew that the Spiked would win if we did not focus on them first, just like God's Own Hate is my primary focus now. I will admit that I have my own goal to fulfill for me to win (like everyone else), but it's the sort that will occur inevitably, so long as I focus on my first goal. I am who I am, and who I am wants no part in taking an innocents life. Personally, I have no qualms about forcing God's Own Hatred to play their hand first. We may know people who claim they can discover a person's identity by examining their corpse, but that doesn't mean that we should depend on them. I'm the type of guy who only believes in what he can see, anyway. While I might consider evidence other people gather and present as the truth, I will only take what I see with my own eyes as fact. In regards to Jonly and Lucy... I showed them mercy because I have no proof that they are my enemies, and thus have no reason to see them die. In the case of Jonly, the primary reason why I didn't vote for him is because I am somewhat suspicious of Spike myself. Once I learn more about either of them I might be willing to take a stance on the situation, but until then, I'd rather not let anything risky happen. Lucy, on the other hand, I don't trust nor distrust. She's got the spotlight on her already, so if she makes another wrong move then it's over for her, regardless. War or not, I think everyone (but those who aim to destroy the Cosmere) deserve a second chance. Plus, if she can really heal Cy Lon, who I believe is not [Evil], then I'd like her to at least do that first before I allow the wolves to devour her. As I stated before, Ryth spoke to me the first night. He is on Taldain now; perhaps you could rendevous with him to help you fulfill your goal?

LG23? Am I expected to understand this acronym? Are you sure you're not crazy, lady?

By Innocent I mean not an ally of Rayse. My only concern is dismantling God's Own Hate.

Well, there's a very good chance that Clanky is innocent. If he was a member of Gods Own Hate I doubt he would have retracted his vote when he did. I would apply the same logic to Doctor but he could very well have believed Luckat would die anyway without his vote and therefore he wanted to get out of the spotlight. I am a bit suspicious of Mint because she didn't try to help despite having posted, but I dunno her well enough to say if that's abnormal... I will chalk it up to her being new and fearing the repercussions of her getting involved, I guess. It's also possible that she noticed Clanky's retraction when I didn't, I had not considered that before. I also realized I pinged Lopen thinking he was just standing on the side lines, but that's because I forgot he was the first one to vote for Dow in the first place. Last minute things like that always make me nervous. I'm just glad it worked out the way I wanted. @luckat, your mind is a valuable one to have. I understand you are not Child, but please do not give me a reason to regret saving you. If you help us, I have no qualms about allowing you to poison and heal me, so long as you prove that you can by healing Clanky.

@luckat if you want to live, you should probably vote for Dow as well... @Frozen Mint, @TheMightyLopen, just going to stand by and watch? Nevermind, Clanky retracted his vote. Phew. (3) luckat: Arraenae, The Only Joe, Bugsy6912, (3) dowanx: TheMightyLopen, Wonko the Sane, Amanuensis,

I'll vote for Dowanx as well in the interest of arranging that no one is killed. I don't know much about the Ghostbloods, but they're certainly no enemy of mine. If Lily is indeed Iyatil then I'm sure she possesses many unique talents that would benefit the Children of Adonalsium. Besides, I see no reason why Rayse should be immune to Sickness or Poison. I say we give her a chance to help us, but only under a watchful eye.

I have never broken a vow in my life, dear woman! In fact, I don't believe we've even met before this whole mess began! That being said, I feel the need to clarify that anything Victor says (black text) will be 100% true. Anything Aman says (purple text) could be true, but it could also be a half-truth, if not an outright lie. Also, here's a tally. (5) luckat: Clanky, Arraenae, Doctor12, The Only Joe, Bugsy6912, (1) dowanx: TheMightyLopen,

12 to my 10*, you mean

Not as much as you, iirc.

Ahaha yeah, just a tad what I meant is try to instigate a discussion between everyone on your world on who among them they would nominate for the lynch and why, then you can propose it with all the reasons why but without identities.

@little wilson, you said you have the ability to scan corpses, yes? I am on Scadrial with Bard right now, and we are talking about having everyone in our world analyze one another and decide on someone to propose for the lynch so that he has a corpse to scan. However, if you can do the same thing, I ask that your planet has the same discussion and presents a lynch option as well. Everyone in the thread can then decide upon which of the two we go for, since everyone else, for now, cannot be scanned, unless there's another player out there with that ability.

Ah, I was guessing that it was a special action and not one of the common powers. Very well then.

Sorry. I made a promise not to get involved in other people's goals if it involved murder. I just noticed it happen and asked if other people saw it in my PM, and then all this nonsense happened, so it ended up becoming relevant. I was really hoping you were going to say purple or something so I could call you a dirty liar and help lynch you I didn't include you because I assumed you would have mentioned it already in your defense sorry @The Only Joe... is that better? I was going to ask you how much investiture your kill costs, however.

I should start this post by saying that I don't really trust either Joe or PK, so I'm going to try to use what information I do know to see if I can work anything out. In the books, the Ghostbloods are a faction who's objective we don't exactly know, though they're interested in the Desolations and the Parshendi; two things that are closely tied to Odium. It's hard to tell whether they're for or against Odium, but I personally think they are against them. In the context of this game, however, they're at least not on the same team, though it's possible they could choose either side. Unless Nyali brought some pretty minor characters into this, I can only really imagine Mraize, Iyatil and possibly Veil among them. I would guess it's open too if it consists of those three characters, but I suppose it could be hidden as well. I personally have a goal that involves bringing a specific character to justice. Another player also revealed that he had a similar goal in the Nalthis PM last turn so I know that it's a reoccurring concept (though there are different conditions to them). One person having a secondary goal to kill three players though? That seems like a tall order to me. Then again my third goal is super limiting, so I guess it's not too much of a stretch to believe. Depending on what Joe's third goal is, I might be inclined to believe it. Here's the thing though. Attacks generally cost a decent amount of Investiture. I'm pretty sure most players, especially Joe, would be mindful of wasting their investiture that quick... unless they have a lot to spare. Soooo I'm kinda concerned about that. But yeah, Joe is definitely off the hook for now. I noticed a player color Ghostbloods pink at one point in this game, and then quickly edit it out to black. So I'm pretty sure that color is accurate. EDIT: Oh right! I got distracted by the ninjas. @Doctor12, @iohn, @Conquestor, @I_am_a_Stick, @Arraenae, @Silverblade5, @Frozen Mint, @Ecthelion III, @little wilson, @The Young Bard, @Burnt Spaghetti, @Darkness Ascendant, @Araris Valerian, @Wonko the Sane, @AliasSheep, @Straw, @Bugsy6912, @OrlokTsubodai, @dowanx, @Sart, @TheMightyLopen, @Mark IV, @livinglegend, @Clanky, @Bridge Boy, @Dalinar Kholin, @Haelbarde, @luckat, @STINK, just to confirm, did any of you get attacked?

@The Only Joe, are you implying to be a Son of Honor, then? Only other alternative I could see is Skybreaker. Unless killing the Ghostbloods is a non-faction affiliated win con. Nevermind. Just re read your post explaining it. Hmmmm..

Someone on my current world said their previous world was their home one. First I heard of though.

If they have ten Invesiture it's a passive. Look in the common powers. And while that's a valid point, so long as the Awakeners keep themselves a secret, and everyone keeps track of players movements, it won't be as simple as Rayse trying to dodge them. And I reckon there's multiples of Awakeners with 10+ investiture too, so we might be able to find a way to split it. Like A-M names check Nalthis, Scadrial and Taldain N-Z through Sel, Roshar and Taldain, in whatever random order they want. Also, as a note. @Silverblade5 investigated me last night. What did you learn?

This is a mobile post from my phone in bed because I can't sleep. I'll fix the color and justification later. I was just thinking. I would be pretty satisfied if an Awakener world hopped to every world and took note of each players investiture. I reckon all of the Shardholders would have a "dazzling" amount. If my starting amount is anything to go off of considering my character, then I'd guess there aren't many players with a lot. Probably some to help mask the shards and what not, but likely no more then ten. If we could narrow down Rayse even to that many players, I think we would be a lot better off... Then again, at the same time, if it's made public knowledge then he will be tipped off on who to kill too, so... Hmm. If you're an Awakener I would recommend you do this if you haven't planned to already, but that you keep that info close to your chest for a while. Examine each player carefully and if one ends up waving a bunch of red flags, reveal them, or at least confront them first to see how they react.