Amanuensis

Well, they still are completely separate, either by vast amounts of space or multiverses. My argument is mainly that the two come from the same place, which if true, allows us to figure some things out about Adonalsium in particular, and it helps explain the Shattering quite well.

Thank you very much, JUQ. You've got me more evidence for my theory From 10th Anniversary Elantris Epilogue: This seems to imply that space is the Unknown God's domain. Which aligns very well with another statement of Calamity's. "This place" he is referring to is space, where had put his station. I don't believe it's a coincidence that space is the Unknown God's domain and that space is also the most similar thing to Calamity's "home" (AKA the "Beyond"). But this is just a theory. A Sanderson theory.

Has he said that? Hm. I've only been able to find three WoBs about the God Beyond. That being said, just because there's no hard proof of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Especially when the God Beyond (or Unknown God) is mentioned on nearly every world, and even by Hoid in the extra scene from the 10th Anniversary of Elantris.

As stated, the Cosmere only refers to a dwarf galaxy separate from ours. Personally I believe the two are Connected, but I wouldn't bet money that the Cosmere exists in the state we witness it parallel to the events of Reckoners. Sadly, my theory on that matter has received no comments and two down votes since being posted =P the general consensus on these forums seems to be to consider the two entirely separate. If they aren't, however, I don't think Hoid has been to or ever could visit Earth, regardless of timelines. It's hard enough to Worldhop within the Cosmere, and presumably the Milky Way is very far.

I'm not sure if it was officially confirmed before, but the final scene of these flashbacks pretty much confirmed for me that the Thrill is one of Odium's ways of influencing people into doing things he wants, a la Ruin. I suspect that Odium (or the relevant Unmade) had a direct hand in Dalinar's urge to kill Gavilar there, likely because they were aware that Gavilar was on his way to becoming a Bondsmith. I'm not sure if this was old information, but the most interesting thing I learned was that the specific Spren that Ryshadium have a symbiotic relationship with are Music Spren. I still haven't quite figured out the implications of that, but I wonder if it's connected at all to the Listeners.

Working on a Post-Words of Radiance Roshar game currently. Here's the general premise of the game (basically everything excluding the specific roles, which I'm still trying to work out and would appreciate help developing from anyone who is willing) The Most Important Words The Most Important Words is a Long Sanderson Elimination Game that takes place in Urithiru following the events of Words of Radiance. Upon bonding the Stormfather, Highprince Dalinar Kholin has started recruiting men and women from around Roshar to become full-fledged Knights Radiant. Under the tutelage of Kaladin Stormblessed and Shallan Davar, these brave people have sworn the First Ideal, allowing them breathe in Stormlight and begin attracting Spren of their own, hoping to amass enough power to save their world from the Final Desolation. Despite these initiates noble intentions, Darkness has sent a group of apprentice “Skybreakers” to infiltrate the Honorbound to uncover their crimes, and execute them all in order to prevent the Final Desolation before it can truly begin. Like most Long Games, each Part (Cycle) of The Most Important Words is split into two Chapters (Turns): a 48 hour Day and a 24 hour Night. Unlike most Long Games, there will be a 24 hour Interlude for the GMs to process the player’s actions and produce the subsequent write up. During Chapters and Interludes, players who are not dead or imprisoned can post in thread. In the Day only, players who are not dead or Imprisoned can vote to Interrogate another player and submit an order to develop a particular Attribute. In the Night only, all living players can exchange private messages with one another, while only those who are not Imprisoned can utilize a single ability (if applicable). In this game, Interrogations replace the lynch. At the end of each Day, the player with the most votes will admit all crimes they have committed in their lifetime and be arrested promptly. In the case of ties, the player with the most recent vote will be the one interrogated. If the interrogated is Honorbound, they will be freed 2 Cycles later. If the interrogated is a Skybreaker, they will remain imprisoned for the rest of the game. All players will begin the game having sworn the First Ideal, granting them the ability to breathe in Stormlight. By developing specific Attributes, players can attract partcular Spren to begin the Bonding process. By continuing to build up their desired Orders Attributes, their Bond strengthens and gives them access to new abilities. Only one Spren from each of the available Orders will exist in the game at a time. In the event that a player with a Spren dies, that Spren will go on to bond the next player most aligned to their Order. Even without Spren, each Skybreaker can perform one of the two following actions: Investigate or Execute. In order to Execute an Honorbound, the Skybreakers must be aware of their past crimes. These can be discovered through Investigations or Interrogations. While Imprisoned, an Honorbound can be Executed by a single Skybreaker. Due to a free Honorbound being able to fend off a single attacker, two Skybreakers must attempt to Execute them simultaneously, or a single Skybreaker must attack them twice in a row, in order to succeed. Unlike the Honorbound, the Skybreakers will increase in power as their numbers dwindle, allowing their team to remain competitive if a few members are lost. In the event that a Skybreaker informs the GM that they will not be able to submit any orders during a night turn, a teammate will be allowed to direct their action for them. Each Radiant action needs Stormlight. Every second Day, a Highstorm will pass and Invest each player. These Investments do not stack. In order to encourage activity and RP, players will earn an extra Attribute point if they participate in the thread 10 times during a Cycle. This includes any on-topic contribution that helps further the discussion. Roleplay of at least 100 words will count as two posts towards this.

Hello all. Like my previous theory, this is one I've had for a very long time, but I've just been too lazy / busy to write it all out. Unlike my previous theory, I'm going to have to actually quote parts of the relevant book and explain my thought process. Be aware that these two theories intersect quite a bit, so if you haven't read my previous one, you should give it a look through now, as some statements I make later in this post reference it. Finally, in case you missed the brackets in the title, you should not read any further if you haven't yet read Calamity, or at least if you are not aware of the information revealed during the climax. To begin, I will briefly mention the God Beyond. Whatever the God Beyond is, It is mentioned on multiple worlds. What this infers to me is that belief in the God Beyond was either carried over from Yolen, or was developed later on and spread by Worldhoppers. Due to how often Brandon himself mentions it outside of his writing, I believe that the God Beyond is what we could consider the Cosmere's "true" God. It's important that I say this in order to emphasize the fact that Adonalsium is not really God, but like the Shards, just another being with godlike power. The thing is, in the case of the Shards, we know where they came from. As of right now, however, we have no idea where Adonalsium himself came from. While I imagine many people believe he always existed in the Cosmere, my theory is that he came to this particular galaxy from somewhere else. More specifically, I believe he came from the same place as Calamity. Here's why. In Chapter 48 of Calamity, the main protagonist and primary antagonist have a fascinating discussion, which includes some details about the godlike entities origins. In the first paragraph we learn that Calamity brings mortals power, and that he is one of many, and that his kind does similar things in multiple realities. As we know in the Cosmere, magic cannot exist without Investiture, which is the very essence of Adonalsium (and later, his 16 Shards). But rather than express confidence, Calamity says "he's told," though he never answers who tells him this information. This implies that Calamity, much like the Shards in the Cosmere, have access to a limited (albeit vast) amount of information. In the second paragraph we learn a little about where Calamity came from specifically. What we learn is that in this place, things are perceived very differently. They exist there "as one" until their "duty" arrives. Does this statement of "oneness" remind anyone of anything else? How about Ym's religion? Let me quote the coppermind here, to save myself time summarizing it. A lot of people have theorized that this One is Adonalsium. I posit that this One is the God Beyond, and this "breaking up into Many to experience all things" is the process at which beings like Adonalsium and Calamity are thrust into one version of reality. Although Calamity implies that his "duty" is to bring doom to mankind, I suspect this is either a deliberate or accidental misinterpretation of his purpose, which is gain experience for the One and inevitably return. Speaking of which, here's another quote from the same chapter... What David is referring to is an alternate reality which he visited through Megan's powers, which referred to Calamity as Invocation, and essentially was a mirror of his world, just without the inherent evil that affected the Epics. Personally, I don't necessarily believe that Invocation and Calamity are one in the same. I believe in that reality, a different "Many" was given a duty similar to Calamity's, only minus the whole, cause an apocalypse, thing, and once it was fulfilled, was allowed to return to the One, as indicated by this next statement. Calamity himself says that he can't return to the One of his own accord. This contradicts David's assumption that Calamity and Invocation are the same being. Also, note how he Epicly (pun intended) deflects the conversation away from what we really want to know again. Fortunately, we get a little more context about this in the next chapter. Does this non-interference remind anyone of something? Perhaps Frost's insistence of staying out of recent develops, or the 17th Shard's policy on non-intervention? I posit that this is all connected. That Ym's religion, Frost's reluctance, and the 17th Shard's policy, are all examples of mortals exercising the same beliefs as their God, Adonalsium. Now, we know for a fact that Adonalsium heavily Invested himself in the Cosmere. We also know that Adonalsium was killed by mortals, presumably as their last option to save their world from destruction. Does any of this sound familiar? If I'm right and Adonalsium and Calamity come from the same One, then this all makes sense. Like Calamity, Adonalsium got involved, and was reprimanded for it. He was told to stop interfering, and he did. It seems he became a watcher, and suddenly the mortals were mad because he was letting the fainlife consume their world. Presumably he had the power to stop it, but for some reason, wasn't. That is why they killed him. With his power, and without the urgings from the One, the Vessels could save their reality, just like David was trying to accomplish by killing Calamity himself. On the theory itself, I think it has serious merit. I have been somewhat hesitant about posting it because I've heard stories about people getting worked up about people thinking Reckoners is Cosmere. Keep in mind that in this theory, Reckoners is not Cosmere, and Cosmere is not Reckoners. They're just two alternate realities with similar origins, which in my mind seems hard to refute, although I welcome any criticisms on this theory / counterpoints that exist in writing or in WoB with open arms.

I should probably clarify that the title is the only theory I'm really arguing for . I have seen comments like the way I described them would make the Vessels two dimensional, which of course is naturally going to occur in a single paragraph statement. Not to mention the fact that I began that part of the post with "To emphasize my theory, let's look at the names of the Shards we know, and connect those to reasons why someone might commit deicide or want to become a god." I'm definitely not trying to specifically predict each of the Vessel's characters, just provide examples of how it could fit in with my theory. On that note, I'm happy to see all of the support I've gotten so far in regards to Hoid, whether or not he's trying to create a new Adonalsium or not, I'm not really sold on, but I do believe he was trying to stop the Shattering, hence why he didn't receive a Shard. AU seems to imply that he died of his wounds after fleeing somewhere else.

I'm relatively certain that only my first post came from a doc, and half of it was a personal doc I made when I was spectating (I didn't want the other spectators to see my analysis in case we were put on opposing sides and I needed to doctor it). That being said, this is definitely something people should look out for, and in general, players should be aware of the dangers of writing posts in docs. I personally always have a personal doc for games when I'm a villager, where I keep all of my information tables and notes, but I imagine that most players don't, so if you do use an eliminator doc to type up posts, make sure you're able to explain yourself if someone points out something like the above. This, however, is a bit of a slippery slope. I would say never lynch a player solely for this reason. I'm relatively confident that El does the same thing regardless of her alignment, so that she can edit it on the go from any device. The point is, if you end up lynching a player for no other reason other than you think they're in a doc, I imagine they won't be too happy about it, especially if they're village. With that said, onto the rest of my comments: Throughout the entire course of this game, bandwagoning was a pretty solid issue. I won't go back and check every single cycle, but I it was definitely a reoccurring theme. I can't say for sure what the cause was. If I had to guess, it was partly a factor of time and effort, in that people could not or would not take the time to comb through what's happened and develop thoughts and feelings on their own. and thus simply followed whatever was trending at the time. While there isn't anything wrong with reading something a player says and agreeing with it, it's very important that you get a feel of the game and the players from your perspective, first, and try to avoid following specific people just because they seem to be putting in a lot of effort into the game. One issue with bandwagoning is it allows the eliminators to manipulate the game from turns ahead. A part of the reason why I was able to avoid suspicion for so long was because villagers kept implicating themselves for me. I even repeatedly defended Doc because it was more likely that an eliminator would be in the tail end of a bandwagon rather than the forefront, which in this game, was clearly not the case*. To use the first day as an example, El was voted on by three villagers within relatively quick succession for little-to-no-reasoning (at least one was because they "wanted to see if this player was right", which illustrates a previous point of mine). I'm pretty sure there was even a villager who used her lack of a defense as a reason to vote for her, when in truth she was just busy with real life. This brings me to the second issue with bandwagoning, and it's that it often occurs close to turn over or when that player is not present, which makes it difficult for them to defend themselves. Discussion is probably the most important thing in these games, and I'd go so far to say that there can never be too much of it. I personally feel it is every player's responsibility to try to instigate discussion, particularly when the thread is quiet for prolonged periods of time. It is very important that people try not to rely on other players for this, because occasionally you'll end up seeing that the most active players are also the eliminators, which allows them to firmly direct the game. Which brings me to another point. There are very few players who take the time to read through previous cycles and compare that information with new developments. A lot of times doing this will give you a much bigger, more clear picture of the game, and allow you to find eliminators. I'm relatively certain if people had done that in this game, it would have been more apparent that I was ignoring Stick, which once brought up, could easily have snagged you guys two elims in one fell swoop. This connects to the statement I made earlier and annotated with an asterisk. If a particular line of thinking seems to be hurting you more than helping, look things over again and search for new explanations, rather than pursue that one until the end. I used people not doing this to benefit our team in two instances: implicating late voters, and implicating low-activity to no-activity players (for the lack of the kill on C3). If I had been a villager, I would have very likely had done this myself, but instead I continued to perpetuate those arguments because it worked best for my agenda, which is another thing villagers need to be on the look out for, and why activity is so dang important. Though I was a bit sad to be the only "active" eliminator this game, it was very easy to shield my allies from attention, and for them to continue to lurk in the shadows. Because consideration for other players is a focus of the moderators lately, I want to bring up a couple things in regards to this. It is up to us as a collective community to give players enough time to respond before they are removed from the game. While I understand that we cannot expect everyone to notice everything, that doesn't mean players should not be on the look out for something that may seem unfair. If you notice a situation unfolding that goes against this concept, don't just remain quiet. Say something, or else things are never going to get better. On the other side of the spectrum, keep in mind that these games are just games. They should never be taken so seriously that it creates schisms in the community. Although these games are what initially brings us all together, I am confident that most people don't join them again and again simply for their mafia fix. While everyone might have different reasons, I would be willing to bet that it all boils down to community or sense of belonging. If you happen to be one of the few people who do only join these games for the games, we're not going to ask you to stop playing. But we are going to ask you to put yourselves in other players shoes, to actively try to understand what they're thinking and going through. There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying your absolute hardest every game, but it's very important that you recognize when you stepping on other people's toes or pushing their buttons. Every player is different, and in some of these games, there's an overwhelming number of them. That's a lot of lines to pay attention to and be careful of not crossing. But that's not an excuse to be careless. So long as you practice wariness, everything should work out fine. If you're having trouble separating competition from the community, one tip I have is to stop concerning yourself with records. I know for me, that worked, as I felt a significantly less amount of pressure in each game and I no longer felt encouraged to attempt things I wouldn't otherwise. And I think that just about covers everything.

I was only a Spectator for a few turns, but I've got a couple things I'd like to point out. Honestly, quite a bit of my game play this game was explicitly geared towards helping teach some lessons. This was not one of them, however >> This particular lesson was don't trust a player just because they were instrumental in the death of an eliminator. As Nyali pointed out towards the end of the game, it was very odd that I was still alive. The excuses I made were not very well formed, and that was partially intentional. Another thing is, under normal (village) circumstances, a player is more likely to point out things that are odd themselves. Like for example, Doc saying how surprised he was that people weren't gunning for him. I personally completely ignored the fact I was still alive after a while, partly to see how long it would take for others to point it out. On the note of completely ignoring things, did anyone else notice my constant omissions of Stick's existence? That was intentional. By avoiding talking about her and focusing on other players, I effectively made sure suspicion on her was a minimum. Be on the look out for players seemingly ignoring the existence of others. Yes, some people can be forgetful, but a connection like that might be very important to draw upon some day. I'm sure I had more, but unfortunately I've got to get ready to head home and finally get some sleep. so I'll have more statements to make later. I imagine that the QF is going to be even more challenging for the village due to the shorter turns, so I hope everyone who played this game takes some things they learned into it, and more importantly than that, has a lot of fun. Oh, and of course, good game, everyone! And thank you very much, Hael, for running this for us all :]

I don't have much time since I'm about to go on a date, but I'm going to vote for Assassin before I leave, because I have the opposite read as you, Jondesu, especially considering his activity has spiked very recently, as if he's a Traitor who hasn't had to get involved due to the village following the wrong leads, but with numbers so small and attention drawn to him, has no choice but to start voting.

No need to apologize, Assassin. I was just trying to understand you a little better. On that note, there's not really much I can do here. If I vote on Assassin, the game will end up determined by a coin flip, unless someone voting for Nyali is willing to do a 180. But I'm not even sure if I suspect Assassin more. I guess I do, even though Nyali's got more evidence stacked against her. I just can't shake the feeling that her tone is genuine, and it's really messing with my head. @Jondesu and @Wonko the Sane, are you two dead set on voting for Nyali? (3) Nyali: Jondesu, Assassin in Burgundy, Wonko the Sane, (2) Assassin in Burgundy: Nyali, I_am_a_Stick,

@Jondesu, earlier today I randomly decided to start developing a Reckoners game, and it turned out to be very similar to yours, albeit unintentionally. El was actually the one who pointed it out. At first, I didn't want to have kills at all, and have it more of a race of wits / against time, but since people said that it wasn't an elimination game at that point, I had no choice but to add it. I ended up going with a "jailing" mechanic as well, because I personally am tired of the same old death mechanics, and have always been fond of medium-esque things. My interpretation of it was to make the game less role-based, however. I wanted the bulk of it to be people gathering clues and putting the pieces together. Here's the generic details I ended up whipping together: Trouble in Trimountaine Introduction Before Calamity ascended and the United States was shattered from within, Trimountaine went by another name: Boston, Massachusetts. Not long after the federal and state governments fell, a powerful Epic known simply as The Governor took control, and has since ruled from the State House on Beacon Hill. As was common in North America, a rival epic attempted to seize The Governor’s land out from under him, but the titanic man known as Black Hood stood no chance against The Governor’s overwhelming psionic abilities. Rather than kill Black Hood, The Governor offered the man a chance to live, but only if he served him absolutely. Reluctant to die, Black Good agreed, and the two have been inseparable ever since. Not long after, a young, minor Epic who went by the alias Polygraph surfaced. For reasons unknown, The Governor took quick interest in the girl. Despite her age, she now rules the city alongside the two superior epics. Together, The Governor, Polygraph and Black Hood are known as the Triumvirate. In Trimountaine, they are the Judge, the Jury, and the Executioner. Overview Trouble in Trimountaine is a Mid-Ranged Sanderson Elimination Game that takes place in the Reckonersverse. Recently, the Reckoners have inspired a group of Unhappy Citizens to begin making plans of overthrowing the Triumvirate. In response, the Triumvirate has ordered a few of their Loyal Minions to infiltrate the Citizen’s meetings, in order to sabotage their efforts and arrest their most dangerous members. Every Cycle, each Citizens can “Investigate” one of the three Epics to discover a random “Tidbit” about them. It is then up to the Citizens to reveal the information they learn and collectively put the pieces together in order to figure out the Epic’s weaknesses. Once a Citizen is confident they have figured out an Epics weakness, they can attempt to “Assassinate” them. If the Citizen is wrong they will be killed in retaliation, but if they succeed, they will kill the Epic and gain an item based on one of their powers, to use for future investigations. In order for the Citizens to win, both The Governor and Black Hood must die. Polygraph is optional. Because murder is forbidden in Trimountaine (for anybody but Black Hood), the Minions cannot kill the Citizens, nor can the Citizens kill the Minions. The Minions can, however, “Arrest” a single player every cycle. Although free players can personally message “Arrested” players, the “Arrested” are no longer allowed to “Investigate” or post in the thread. Every cycle, the free players can vote to “Arrest” another free player, although it will only succeed if 50% of the free players vote to “Arrest” the same player. The Minions win when they outnumber the Citizens.

Understood hope everything works out!

Honestly Assassin, your votes lately have seemed a bit confusing / fickle. Can you articulate for me exactly why you voted for Doc yesterday? @Wonko the Sane between Nyali and Assassin who would you vote for? After the stunts you pulled yesterday, I'm starting to wonder more about you. @Jondesu it seems you're being a bit lax with your participation compared to normal. Can you please try to articulate your thoughts more? I do wish I kept my vote on Nyali, for the record. I started questioning myself there towards the end, and made a rash decision. I might vote on her again this time, but I'm going to go over everything that's happened this game again to see if there's anything I've missed.

Can't tell if you're playing games with my mind or not EDIT: Storm it. Nyali. Doc. @Haelbarde (3) Doc12: Nyali, Assassin in Burgundy, Amanuensis, (2) Nyali: Doc12, Jondesu, (2) Assassin in Burgundy: I_am_a_Stick, Clanky,

I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but I've been trying to get online the past two hours and I kept getting an error. Finally working now, though I have no idea why. I see what your saying, Nyali. Either the explanation here is that Wonko isn't your ally, and you saw a villager going for me, and took it as an opportunity to take me out for the finale, or that all three of you are Traitors together. I was very nearly going to take my vote off of you in favor of Doc, but then Assassin came in and voted on him, and now I think you just answered the questioned you asked for me: you didn't go for the Assassin lynch because you two are teammates. If that theory is right, than it doesn't really matter which of you two I vote to lynch, and since both of you are voting for Doc, I think it's clear he's the only innocent you have a chance of getting rid of instead of either one of you. So for now I think I'm going to have to leave my vote on you, and see if Wonko attempts to save you by voting for Doc as well, or any other player, for that matter. While I'm not very fond of voting blocs, it seems that no matter which person I vote for, I'm going to end up being a part of one. So I'm just going to trust my gut and my analysis on this one, as I did with STINK. (3) Nyali: Amanuensis, Doc12, Jondesu, (2) Assassin in Burgundy: I_am_a_Stick, Clanky, (2) Doc12: Nyali, Assassin in Burgundy,

I feel inclined to agree with you, Nyali, which is why I'm starting to have my doubts right now. Ugh. I have to get ready for work, but I should be on again in approximately one hour. See you all then.

Oh, sorry. I didn't think he'd accrued that many. For some reason I thought Clanky still had his vote on you, and I didn't even notice Stick's post. Logically, it makes more sense to me that Clanky is evil, since he was the only one to change his vote when the lynch wasn't going the direction he was trying to prod it. But aside from STINK, who I only really caught because I noticed he cared a lot more about surviving this game than he does whenever he's a villager, my logic appears to have been wrong. So maybe Doc is actually evil? I suppose Stick could be, too, but her level of activity doesn't really suggest to me that she would be putting kill orders in every turn.

Which train on Assassin? Last turn, there were only two votes on him. Clanky and Ecth. The only train came after I joined the vote on polking with Doc. As soon as I voted for polking, Jondesu, yourself and Ecth changed your votes to polking. We know Ecth is village, now. I personally find Jond and your votes a lot more suspicious than Doc's, for example, although I've been saying that later votes trigger red flags more than earlier ones, so I suppose Doc could be evil. I suppose Assassin could be evil, but if he is, than my gut says that for sure, either you or Jond have to be, too.

Pretty much, yes. It doesn't make sense for me to be an elim, especially from my perspective, and Wonko's poor logic in voting for me, coupled with your sudden reversal, doesn't sit well in my gut. I'm voting for you over him because there's a lot more evidence of you being evil, Nyali, and at least killing you will buy the village another turn if I'm wrong about him.

I've been deliberating on that myself for a while, and I think I've figured out why. To answer your question, I suspect it's because aside from Stink, my logic has been completely wrong. For one, who so far have I advocated we kill? Magestar and Jondesu come to mind, whom the first has since been proven a villager. I'm starting to believe that Jondesu is innocent as well. Furthermore, I have been supporting the theory that the missing kill was because STINK's team was inactive at the time: I.E. Assassin, Clanky and polking. In fact, it was this exact reasoning that has kept me from attempting to lynch you. Likewise, I have similarly been ignoring Wonko completely, in favor of people who have actually been getting involved. While I'll admit that none of this was an intentional trap, it suddenly all makes sense to me. I haven't been killed because I was leading the village astray while ignoring the rest of the elims. I believe that there was no kill on C3 because you, Nyali, wanted to frame the inactives and make yourself look innocent in one fell swoop, because of course you wouldn't forget to put a kill in. We know that Magestar didn't hop his vote to bus STINK. I suspect that you, however, threw on that last, meaningless vote for two ends: to show that you participated in killing an elim, and to give you evidence to cite that you were active despite there being no kill. Now, I think you've been putting the kill orders in this whole time on players who I have said I trusted who weren't your teammates. For example, I entered this game saying I trusted Dani the most, and although I said my trust for her had subsided significantly before you killed her, I think that order had been decided upon much earlier. Next, Ecth was the victim, another villager who I had openly claimed I didn't believe was an elim. I also have a theory, branching off what I addressed earlier with your paths to defeat. You're trying to mislead us into thinking that this game has 4 elims, when in truth, it only began with 3: Yourself, STINK and Wonko. Isn't it funny how I was the one to attempt to prod Wonko back into activity this previous turn, and he never posted? But as soon as he posts this turn, it's with a vote on me, for no other reason than I'm still alive and that I didn't put a vote on Nyali, which I will note in blue text should be obvious why, because I had to suddenly leave and didn't want to vote until I thought more about the situation. Makes sense if this whole time your team was intentionally not killing me so that I would continue to protect you and lynch villagers, and just in case I started getting closer to the truth, you could turn the lynch on me by saying "Aman is still alive! He must be evil!" In conclusion, I believe that there are only two eliminators left, Nyali and Wonko, and that the remaining players are all village. While it's possible that there is a third elim left, I think that Nyali has been misleading us in that regard this whole time. I suppose we'll have to worry about that when we get there, however.

Life's a bit crazy right now, and I don't have much time to post, so I will say as much as I can and revisit this thread later, when I have more time. I'm not going to bother reiterating that we are dangerously close to losing, other people have covered that enough. But since no one else has done the analysis of yesterday's votes, I'll take care of that now. Ecth, a now confirmed villager, was the first player to lay down a vote. It was on Clanky because of the last minute "I think the person we're lynching is village." Although his theory proved wrong for Daniyah, who did the same thing before Clanky, it is a valid reason to vote someone, and another factor contributing to my suspicions of Clanky. Next, Doc votes on polking because, well... I'm not entirely sure. He didn't specify why him over Assassin and Clanky, just said that he believed one of the three are a Traitor, which I agreed with, due to the missing kill on D3.. So yeah, I'm a bit suspicious of this, but I still think an eliminator is more likely to tamper with a vote towards the end than lay the foundation of one. Clanky was the next player to lay down a vote, and it was on Assassin because his last post was asking if STINK was "Ookla the Bard" and not Bard. Considering this post was 12 hours after an edit that STINK made to point out it was him, Clanky thought it was an attempt at distancing himself from a teammate. I can see that as well, in retrospect, although I'm a bit skeptical of Clanky himself, and the amount of effort Assassin has put into this game seems pretty standard to him. Nyali was the next person to lay down a vote, and this time it was on Doc. Despite her saying for most of the game that she was more suspicious of polking (who despite being suspicious of him, never seemed to really push his death), she goes for Doc because of how he's been a part of every mislynch, and that she was certain either him or Mage (who was also village) is a Traitor. Going to go on a bit of a tangent here. This is also the post that Nyali crunches the numbers of how things can possibly go from here. One thing I noticed is that every scenario she proposed ended with a tie in numbers. Not one shows the village achieving victory, which implies to me that either Nyali is really pessimistic about this game, or that she knows something that we don't. Ecth retracts her vote on Clanky in favor of Assassin due to a recent post where he seemed to be making excuses for why it doesn't plan on voting that turn (basically, he was clueless and didn't want to act uninformed). So I post soon after and try to get Jond, polking and Wonko to vote, since they hadn't talked about the lynch yet, to which Jond responds soon after with a vote on Doc. He says he is most suspicious of Doc and Nyali, but decides to vote for Doc because her "paths" seemed earnest and his gut was telling him Doc was bad. Now the interesting thing is, as soon as I vote for polking (when I say as soon, I mean literally 6 minutes after I post it) for relatively weak reasoning, Jond jumps on the opportunity to lynch polking because "he was swayed by the constant focus" on him. That... is not a good way to play this game from a villager perspective, but from an elim one, jumping on the opportunity to kill any villager, even if you aren't suspicious of them, is perfectly valid, especially when it's this close. Not even 2 minutes later, Nyali basically does the same thing. Despite her saying we're two mislynches from losing this game, she says "If we're wrong and he's a villager, at least he's an inactive one." I won't try claiming my reasons for voting for polking were any better, but a sudden shift like that is nothing but suspicious. Right now I'm a bit torn who to vote for, because if their not both evil then this game might very well be over. But at this point I'm certain one of them is. And I've got to go. I'll try to get on and vote as soon as I can.

And that's exactly why I don't think that Szeth will end up Odium's Champion. It's way too obvious. I'd rather see him hit rock bottom and bounce back better than ever. Compared to Kaladin, I think he's got a lot more potential for growth. And honestly, Kaladin does have a tendency to keep regressing. I would not be surprised if he went through another bout of depression that resulted in him failing even worse than he has before, and choosing to blame others (maybe Lighteyes, maybe another scapegoat) for the cause. Then again, that's a bit too close to some events in Star Wars. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ We'll just have to read and find out, I suppose

As a counter argument, let's reference the Shards we've seen after death so far. On Roshar, we've got Honor who was Splintered by Odium. We know for a fact that Tanavast's personality separated to form a Cognitive Shadow, which eventually fused with the Stormfather, meanwhile the Investiture that gave him power was fragmented into many pieces of varying sizes. I don't believe that all of the spren are tiny facets of Tanavast's personality manifested into a unique, individual thing. I believe that they're all pieces of Honor, his Intent, that because of the fact they gained sentience after, not before, develop their own personalities, but adhere to similar motivations as their Shard's intent (the desire to bond with others and keep true to their word). We also see this with the Seons and Skaze. The Seons seem absolutely devoted to whoever their master is, while the Skaze are apparently working towards dominating the world through the humans they've bonded with. Another example we have is on Scadrial, when Ruin is finally defeated and Ati appears in the Cognitive Realm. That Ati seems nothing like the looming shadow of malicious intent that taunts Kelsier through Secret History. In fact, that Ati just seems like a normal man, confused by his death. So to me, it doesn't make sense that Adonalsium's personality split when he was Shattered. I actually believe that Adonalsium himself became a Cognitive Shadow, and it was his Investiture that split up and bonded to the people who killed him. Since Adonalsium was whole, it's possible that he didn't have a specific Intent, but was broadly capable of anything, or perhaps that his intent was Create. Maybe the act of destroying creation made it impossible for its original intent to function in the hearts of the Vessels, and so it latched onto the reasons why they destroyed him to begin with, if not their greatest desire, and then became the pure embodiment of that ideal. With that thought in mind, I'm now wondering if I'm right about Adonalsium becoming a Cognitive Shadow, I'm curious if he stuck around or decided to just move on, and if the answer is the former rather than the latter, is it possible that he is the 17th Shard that the organization named itself after? I mean, technically Tanavast's CS is still a fragment of the Shard of Honor. It's just one without any investiture.