tobar14

I would be a Mistborn-Ferring Reason: I want to be able to "fly" using pushes and pulls My feruchemical ability would be Brass, because I live in Wisconsin. Or it would be Bendalloy, because I love eating and drinking (I live in Wisconsin).

I'm really bad at making decisions, and I really like books, so here is my extensive list of books and the paths that I took to reach them. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13pgEZts5JsNfYIOcZvvrn4Sh7bFDFfVs23ENyxtmByo/edit?usp=sharing Green = Books I've read/am reading Yellow = Books and/or Authors that I have heard of Red = Books I have never heard of

But actually I would want to be an air bender, for a few reasons. 1. I want to fly/glide 2. I think that we don't fully understand bending yet. I think that air bending is actually more like pressure bending. I mean, think about it: wind isn't a thing on its own, it's a side effect of differences in pressure. 3. Pressure bending would be cool.

Energy Bending!!!

Non-Radiants need 10 heartbeats to summon a dead spren shard blade. Radiants can summon their live spren blades instantly. She just thinks she needs 10 heartbeats. The mind is a powerful tool...dun dun dun. This is a good example of how pre-conceived conceptions can affect the magic systems.

I apologize for the chill pill comment, it was unnecessary.

Omg, this is not even the topic of this post. I am defending a tangent that I do not even care about, nor did I start. Yes, we all know that there is another way to access Preservation, but nobody knows how yet. A logical next step to figure this out would be to study other magic systems that are fundamentally the same. Hence, my comparison of AonDor to Allomancy, specifically with the quote that I used in the first post. All I did was state something about a current known fact as a setup to help explain where I was coming from, I was not acting like i just discovered that ingesting metal isn't the only way. And what?? A??? B??? R??? I have no clue what you are talking about. I am talking about the molecular structure of the metals, not the English Alphabet. If you read the coppermind on Aons, you would find that it is a writing system, that is based off of a real world/physical object. AonDor uses the Aons as focuses/filters the Dor's power into the physical realm, which is exactly what Allomancy does. The power doesn't come from the metal, the molecular structure of the metal acts as a focus/filter for Preservation's power. Yes, Aons already existed with intrinsic meaning, well so did the metals and their molecular structure. Finally, I appreciate everyone's contribution to this topic. This was the first topic that I posted, I did my research, stated known facts as evidence to my hypothesis, and I was curious what other people thought. I could do without the negativity, but people tend to be scared of new ideas Seriously though, Oudeis. Take a chill pill, this was supposed to be fun.

AAAAHHHH, how do I fix it?????

I was merely describing a scenario where a society could discover one way to use allomancy, when there is actually more than one way to use it. They didn't "have" to ingest it, that was just the first way that person discovered it (in this scenario). This post was about Allomancy and my hypothesis on how it relates to AonDor, not how Allomancy was discovered. In this hypotheses, I stated that ingesting metal probably ins't the only way to access Preservation's power. A possible solution as to why other methods haven't been discovered is that nobody ever thought to question something that works. Kinda like how nobody really questioned Hemalurgy. A possible reason for why nobody questioned other methods of Allomancy is that TLR crushed change and the pursuit of knowledge/people have been doing it this way for so long, why rock the boat? I don't think anyone said that all you had to do was touch the metal to use it. I did hypothesize that it is similar to AonDor, where you could draw the molecular structure and use that as a focus to funnel the power of Preservation. But then with the help of Moogle and others I realized that that is unlikely due to the 3D structure of molecules, and the fact that it is just a graphical tool we use, and it doesn't reflect reality. Then someone posted about the allomantic symbols being the focus (which I like). People on Nalthis haven't discovered all of the command phrases for Awakening, there are plenty of examples of cosmere people not fully understanding the magic that they use. -There is always another secret

When I was younger, my brother played on a hockey team, and they all had nicknames on their jersey's. My brother's was Robar, which is a combination of his first and last name. I thought that was cool, and I thought my brother was cool. So when I got invited to be one of the first users of Gmail, I thought to myself, "what is a unique username, but isn't just my name". BOOM, Tobar14 and its many variations were born. If I am playing anything resembling Greek or Roman, I am Tobarious If I am playing anything medieval or magicky, I am Tobarth or Tobaraxus Otherwise, Tobar14 it is.

Vin didn't realize that she was using allomancy in the beginning of The Final Empire. She happened to eat food or drink water that had some residual metals in it. I think its entirely possible for someone to discover allomancy on accident (keep in mind this is a hypothetical scenario, I realize that allomancy wasn't well known pre-TLR). Here would be a possible scenario for how a society discovers and practices something new: 1. Person drinks water coming out of stream that flows out of an iron ore deposit 2. Person feels a weird well of power in their stomach 3. Person burns it, it goes away, they forget about it 4. Person drinks the water again, cause they are thirsty 5. Person realizes that after every time they drink the water they feel that power 6. Person goes to different stream to see if they power comes from the water 7. Person fails to get the same result 8. This probably happens in multiple places in the world at multiple times (sometimes with food or whatnot) 9. Finally someone puts it together that residual metals in the food or water they ingest gives them that power 10. Person tries ingesting pure metal (instead of with food) and they feel a big well of power 11. Hundreds of years pass, and now society is aware of allomancy, and the way they access it is by ingesting in This has happened on Earth many many times. Someone discovers something, but we don't full understand it, but we can still use it. Y'know, like Newtonian physics. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Except Einstein came along and was like, "no". The mind is a powerful thing, you can easily box yourself in and put limitations based on what you believe. This is doubly true in the Cosmere, seeing as how the cognitive realm is heavily based on how the item perceives itself and others perceive it, plus the fact that the magic systems are tied to the realms...........

How do I move a topic? The reason I posted it in Mistborn was because I was using this theory as a leap towards what is going on in the south pole of scadrial. How do they use allomancy with machines?

Moogle: Thanks for that WoB! Good point on the shape of the molecule. I fully agree. Counterpoint: Aon's are based on the shape of Elantris. Yet, isn't Elantris a 3 dimensional place? When you draw an Aon, it is flat, but Elantris is certainly not flat. This goes back to my idea about perception, and what the user thinks/believes. If they fully believe that its "close enough" to the ideal (the idea of itself in the cognitive realm) then maybe it works. Otherwise Elantrians would have to draw in elevation differences. Maybe we (us in the phyiscal realm) need some pattern (metal molecules, aon shapes, auditory commands, bond between specific spren) in the physical realm to help us focus on. Us focusing on the idea is what connects us to the ideal of itself which lies in the cognitive realm. The ideal of itself is the bridge between the spiritual and physical. 1. There is a bridge in the cognitive realm (the ideal of the focus in the physical realm) 2. Someone in the physical realm focuses on that focus (burning metal, drawing aons, giving a command to an awakened object, focusing on the ideals that formed the nahel bond) 3. The focusing on the focus connects us to that bridge in the cognitive realm 4. Spiritual energy flows from the spirit realm, through that bridge, and is then filtered by the actual focus in the physical realm.

Haha well my initial post is about how they are fundamentally the same. In both cases, the magic user needs to provide a specific shape in order to gain access to the magic. Sanderson has stated before that all the magic systems are based off of the same rules, and one user can use the investiture of another system (we don't know how yet). So again, all the magic systems are fundamentally the same, its the intent of the shard that influences what the magic can do. Allomancy is completely balanced in how it effects internal things and external. There is a table for it. We don't know enough about AonDor to make that same claim, but thats not the point. My point isn't about how the outcomes of the magics are different, that is obvious. The point is that the means to get the magic (having the specific shape) is almost exactly the same. The shape of the structure grants access, and filters the power to a specific outcome.

Imagine it functioning just like AonDor. They can't just stumble upon something that happens to be in the shape of the necessary focus. The person needs to be the one creating the shape with the intent to use it as a focus for power (that's what the coppermind says about AonDor). However, for both magic systems, if you ingest something that is in the shape of the necessary focus, you can bypass the requirement of having to create it yourself, with the intent. Allomancy: They can ingest things of a certain shape to gain power (known) They can draw/craft things of a certain shape with the intent of using it as a focus of power (How AonDor works, also my theory) AonDor: They can ingest things of a certain shape to gain power (How Allomancy works, also my theory) They can draw/craft things of a certain shape with the intent of using it as a focus of power (known) Both parties just don't know that they can do that, and I think that they will begin to discover this in future books.

I just started a new post about carving symbols to use allomancy http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/37655-the-nature-of-allomoncy-as-it-relates-to-aondor/

Yes, they would get so big it would be difficult to move, I believe that in the book it mentioned that sazed had a hard time turning his head or something. Natc's point was that any pewter ferring or feruchemist could run into that problem, its just easy for a pewter twinborn to hit that wall of bigness.

They wouldn't be "burning" anything. They would just need to draw or craft the shape of the molecule, with the intent of using it for allomancy. Similar to how in order to create a functional Aon, an Elantrian must intend to do so. It's the shape of the molecular structure of the metal that matters, not the actual metal. In this theory, the ingesting and burning of metal is a rudimentary method. Also, a logical train of thought would lead you to believe that if an Elantrian of Aonic descent that has been chosen by the shaod could ingest something that is in the shape of an Aon, and "burn" it much like someone from Scadrial would burn a metal. Access to Preservation's power is given by having the right molecular structure, just like AonDor. The metals they burn just happen to be composed of those structures, so that makes them an efficient source of fuel for allomancers. In this new method, they wouldn't rely on metals for fuel, they could just draw or create a scale model of a copper molecule or something like that.

Question We all know what allomancy does, but do we really know how it does it? Not the physics of it or the outcome, but the method in which the user gains access to Preservation's power. Information Gathering I was bored at work, reading up on the basics of allomancy on The Coppermind website, and I came across a line that made me start thinking. "Metal is not the source of Allomancy's power. Rather, metal is what is called a focus--a necessary component to a manifestation of Investiture (magic system), but not the source of the power itself. When an Allomancer burns a metal, that metal's specific molecular structure acts as a conduit to Preservation, and then the Allomancer is granted an ability corresponding to the metal, hence the metal "focuses" Preservation's power to the user. Each metal is the only way a mortal can access Preservation and the power of creation's power. Afterwards, the metal is vaporized." Doesn't that sound like another magic system that we know about...AonDor??? I will replace the Scadrial words for Selish words. "Aons are not the source of an Elantrian's power. Rather, Aons are what is called a focus--a necessary component to a manifestation of Investiture (magic system), but not the source of the power itself. When an Elantrian draws an Aon, that Aon's specific structure acts as a conduit to the Dor, and then the Elantrian is granted an ability corresponding to the Aon, hence the Aon "focuses" the Dor's power to the user. Each Aon is the only way a mortal can access the Dor and the power of creation's power. Afterwards, the Aon dissipates." Putting the Pieces Together So, in my head I have this idea that AonDor and Allomancy have a foundational similarity...cool, so what? Well a big part of Sanderson's cosmere is belief/perception/intent. Kaladin doesn't heal the scars on his head because the perception of him includes those scars. Basically, you can only do what you think you can do (within the limits of that magic system, of course). So what if the only reason allomancers swallow metal is because they "think" that is the only way to gain access to Preservations power. Earlier I mentioned how that it's not the actual metal; rather it is the molecular structure of that metal that is the focus. According to the AonDor page on The Coppermind, "It appears that the energy can only get to the Physical Realm in certain pulse lengths and frequencies, so an Aon’s shape only allows for a certain frequency to escape, which has a specific effect". That sounds very similar to Allomancy, in the sense that each metal has a specific molecular structure that only allows for a certain frequency of Preservation's power to escape, which has a specific effect. Wrapping it Up I theorize that a person on Scadrial that has snapped, much like a person on Sel with Aonic decent that has been chosen by the Shaod, has the ability to draw and/or craft molecules as a focus for the power to manifest in the physical realm. The only reason we haven't seen this on Scadrial is because when allomancy was discovered, it was discovered as a process of ingesting metals (probably on accident), and a lack of understanding lead the people to believe that this is the only way to use allomancy (if it's not broken, don't fix it). The lack of understanding of the magic itself, coupled with the lack of understanding of chemistry and molecular structure, has caused the people of Scadrial to think/act this way since allomancy was discovered. I think that this is what we will discover the southern hemisphere Scadrial people have been tinkering with, and possibly the future books will involve this practice, where chemistry might be more prevalent. What do you all think?

That sounds almost like rioting and/or soothing. I doubt that is how it works. You are describing attributes that are in the physical realm. Duralamin ferrings store "spiritual" connection, and we don't really know that much about the spiritual realm. But my doubts mean very little, I just like speculating Here is a forum about this same subject: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/14926-duralumin-feruchemy/ Read what Moogle has to say

Another thought: How does spiritual connection work in regards to specific people. What I mean is, do they store or release spiritual connection for a specific person? For instance, if I am hanging out with Fred, storing spiritual connection with him, can I use that connection later with a different person, or does it only work with Fred? I guess I am getting to how spiritual connection actually works. When you are storing it, are you storing your spiritual ability to connect with people, or are you storing a specific spiritual connection? I personally think its the first, because you can only feruchemcially store things from yourself, and the nature of a connection implies to at least 1 other person than yourself. How can you store something that isn't entirely yours?

haha yeah, it did seem like he did that a lot. Maybe Brandon did that because otherwise we wouldn't hear anything form Ham unless we needed him to beat someone up or train the army.

Whoops, totally did not read the date of this forum. I was just bored at work, my bad.

Philosophy = Many Questions + Few Answers I didn't dislike Ham at all, but he was also one of my least favorite characters.

Shallan. Can't really pinpoint why, but every chapter that focused on her was difficult for me to read. I think she reminds me of my sister, and I do not like my sister.