Yados

I think it could. A Shardblade cuts the life out of living things without physically touching them. It burns the life out them. Does it kill the soul? Possibly. But let's assume for now that it just slices the soul from the body without any physical cause of death. If it slices someone's arm, the person loses their connection with that arm. I mean, maybe it just burns out the nerve endings or something physical, but these swords are stored in the Spiritual Realm when they aren't being used. They must have something more than that. Maybe it slices through the spiritweb itself. If that's true, I think that Spren, cognitive beings, might be vulnerable to Shardblades in a way that they're not vulnerable to physical weapons. I wonder that's what they're for...

True, but Jasnah doesn't see the symbol heads. She knows about them, but they aren't involved with how she soulcasts. Look at that, Jasnah relates what she does to the Radiants, but then cuts herself off before attatching Shallan to any of the orders. Now, I always took that as Shallan belonging to the other order of the Radiants, but now I'm rethinking that assumption. I don't think Shallan is in any way a Radiant. She hasn't done anything remotely honorable and hasn't attracted an honorspren, despite having developed powers. I can't help thinking of the quote from Dalinar's penultimate vision. While I think what's going on with Shallan and Elhokar is definitely a form of Surgebinding, I don't think it has anything to do with the Radiants, but instead these other Spren. What the significance of that distinction is, as of yet I cannot say, but I'd guess that the surgebinding that Shallan and Elhokar have developed resembles whatever the magic system looks like before Nohadon, the penultimate Desolation, and the Knights Radiant.

This is, I suppose, related to the "Second Trilogy" thread as it concerns the timeframe of those books. However, I'm less interested in the plot details of those books and more the general culture, supplemented by the inherent Misting, Ferring, and Mythos that we've seen culminating into... well, something close enough to modernity that we could call it an "urban fantasy". Because modernity isn't really worldbuilt. It's frivolous and interesting and strangely divorced from classical ways of thinkings. How is that going to look on Scadrial? For one, I think the second Mistborn book is going to be set in a sort of mid-90s/80s world. We'll have planes and cars and nuclear fusion, but communication tech will still be a bit stunted as it was in Alloy. No internet, obviously. Probably TVs. I'm wondering about music in particular. I suppose there would be really, incredible, precise classical music that's written, tailored to, and enjoyed, primarily, by tin mistings/ferrings. In fact, I think there would be a huge cultural bias re: these people's past domination of musical culture. Pop Music, on the other hand, I think would be even more of a movement on Scadrial as it's literally opening music up to the masses. I wonder if the beats in rock and roll (which sort of has to exist in some manner or it's just not the modern world) are based on the allomatic pulses given off by certain metals. I also see a lot of pop musicians being Aluminium ferrings, disappearing into the crowd for most days, only to flair identity up on the stage-- your Elvises, your Bowies, your GaGas. At one point or another, there must have been an artistic movement by steel/iron mistings, painting the world via a series of blue lines. Maybe some sort of Scadrial-centric version of pointillism. Do we think that Chromium ferrings/compounders are barred from finance or do they control whole markets? Can a Duraluminum or Aluminium ferring/compounder be a politician? Their ability to manipulate the masses would, in theory, far surpass those of a Soother or Rioter. What about sports? We've never seen them in a Mistborn book. Is there Soccer (the word "hat-trick" is in the vernacular, afterall)? Is there a Legend of Korra-esque "Pro-Bending" scene? Are there kids down and out of the Elendel version of St. Marks St, weiring out the normals with their hemalurgicaly charged eyebrow/tongue rings? Is there a form of ancestor worship that involves taking on the spikes of past family members, giving generations worth of allomantic/feruchemical power to a single bearer? Is the church of the survivor in as much shambles as the modern Catholic church? Have Koloss-blooded citizens achieved civil rights equal to those enjoyed by human citizens? Do they still struggle with institutional racism?(now that the skaa/noble distinction has been stamped out, they're the only "race" left besides Terris. This is a planet of white people, after all) Are there still noble houses? I feel like Sazed would pull strings to keep his friends' ancestors in control to the extent he allowed himself, like the Lord Ruler, but a clear and legislated hierarchy is pretty anathema to modernity. Were the houses falling a political movement or a cultural one, like the 1960s? Obviously, I have some ideas. What are yours?

I don't think the inherent act of burning metals would be unhealthy for the body. The activities that accompanied that decision might pose some potential harm, however.

Ah, yes. That was my point.

Maybe this was obvious, but I'm beginning to suspect that it's just a rock and not at all magical. Part of Szeth's punishment is that his honor requires him to do whatever the person who holds the stone says no matter how horrible. To break his word would be disaster to both his own identity and maybe magic stuff. It's Szeth's own honor that's keeping him bound of the stone. I mean who knows what goes on in Shinovar. Do you think that Radiants lose their powers if they break their word?

I never said it was an error. I said it was passionless. That's an adjective and not a value judgement. It makes sense for Vin's character, a bit less for Elend's, and overall is somewhat symptomatic of BS's writing style. I don't have a problem with it. I think passion is a valuable narrative tool. Like suspense or horror. It invests us viscerally in a narrative, not just intellectually. It's not being used here. That's fine, but it's also my answer to the question posed in the thread title.

But then why were the Vanishers using guns *made* of aluminum when aluminum was so precious? That the cost of the guns and bullets were a huge financial strain on their organization was a noted plot point. If coating the guns and bullets with aluminum laminate would have achieved the same there would be no justification for that expense.

Not to go into technicalities, but the first time we see Vin and Elend post sexual encounter was about 3/4 of the way through Well of Ascension. It's after they'd been married and after they'd left for Terris but before the Siege of Luthadel turned into a battle. And in the scene they are very lovey-dovey and, after the whole book's worth of dysfunction and reasons for keeping their distance, have apparently had sex free of emotional incident. So it's not a year later. I do acknowledge that, within the book, Vin had been through an emotional moment of clarity and a lot of the change of demeanor can be traced back to that. However, it does serve the "marriage fixes everything" trope that I've observed in some of Sanderson's work in a way that it wouldn't if we hadn't seen Vin and Elend being more intimate until after the time skip between Well and Hero. I agree that in Hero of Ages, it's been a year and they've obviously grown, both of them, and they act more like partners. I do much prefer them in that book. Also I want to point out that this was not even a little bit what I was arguing in this thread. Vin and Elend being passionless has nothing to do with whether they have sex or don't have sex. They can be passionate but abstain. I didn't mean it as a byword for sexual content. I don't read BS's books expecting that. I mentioned that if they did have sex when they weren't emotionally ready for it, it would cause a lot more raw, less self-analyzed, emotional drama that would have been complex and, if well written, interesting. It would have forced some issues that really only ever existed in potentia in the book itself. But that doesn't mean that's the only way it could have gone. I also never said that the fact that it played out like it did made it inherently passionless. I found it passionless because the characters dwelled on their doubts about themselves in regards to one another far more than I felt like they thought about how much they loved one another, physically or emotionally. It's a writing thing, not a character or sequence of events thing.

That's fair, certainly. I'd point out that there's a difference between talking to your friends and being privy to their inner thoughts via the narrator. My point isn't that it's bad or even unrealistic. There's all kinds of people out there. Just that it does come off as passionless on the page.

Don't really know at this point. Inheritance didn't share much of the same cast each book. It could be that some of the overaching world things set in motion in the first book are picked up by different characters. The personal storylines of KM are pretty much wrapped within its pages. Let me check. *reads amazon entry* Yeah that looks like it picks up a whole lot later than the first book.

I haven't. But I think the next book features a new cast. Things ended up pretty soundly on most fronts by the end of the book.

Yeah, the My favorite, I think, was the second book. I'd give Killing Moon a shot through. It's really a whole different animal.

Can metals not be pushed and bulled when they're inside aluminum? I know that wearing aluminium on the head keeps your emotions safe from being soothed or rioted and that the metal can't be pulled itself, but I wasn't aware that a layer of aluminum around something would keep the metal inside from being affected by allomancy. It seems if that were the case, you'd see aluminum coated guns and not guns of solid aluminum like the Vanishers had.

The grenades that a coinshot could detonate would be a bad idea because *any* coinshot or lurcher would be able to detonate them, even if they were currently on the coinshot's person. Any lurcher or coinshot could see them on your person and you couldn't make them out of aluminum or else you wouldn't be able to detonate them and the whole point would be defeated. The could only work if they never became publically known. Right now, any lurcher or coinshot could activate the safety on Wax's Vindication. The only thing that keeps them from doing so is 1) they don't know it's there and 2) they can push or pull on the gun anyway. Why would they bother? I like the spike boots. A skimmer would also be served by weighted clothing that would allow them to store more weight normally while still being able to move around normally.

I'm not in love with this show like I was with AtLA and it's taken a while to realize that. It's a bit too serious and a bit too slow. It's set in the same place every episode and yet I don't feel like Republic City is that fleshed out beyond its premise and bender/non-bender conflict. That said, AtLA wasn't as great as it became when it only had 6 episodes. In fact, it was pretty rough. Who knows what Korra will become. Presently, I miss the fun and more dynamic character work of the old series to the angst and dread that's capitalized this one.

Upon rereading it, I think it must be either the Parshendi or the Ghostbloods. Why? Because they're *watching* the four. We don't know how parshmen work. Is it possible that the parshendi can see through their eyes? We know that Kaladin has a parshmen with him by the end of the first book. There are others in the camp that could be observing Dalinar. Definitely Shallan. It's noted that they're everyone and no one notices them. Aside from that, the Ghostbloods could be anyone/anywhere.

I *really* like Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. It might be my favorite, all said and done. Song of Ice and Fire is well-done epic, even if it's by way characters that would be more at home in a low-fantasy. Also it's not done.

I don't think that anyone in the thread was implying that they didn't love one another. That's obvious and well-stated in the text. But I think passion comes into it as a way for the reader to feel that love viscerally which helps, ultimately, their own investment in it. I think not "feeling" a romance that a huge chunk of the trilogy is built around, especially when so much page space is devoted to it, is a valid criticism. There's many different ways of doing something, but there's a huge spectrum between "bodice ripping" and "everyone is dead below the belt". Of course, this gets compounded when they're married and suddenly everything in their relationship is fixed and they have no sexual disfunction whatsoever... but like I said. Another post. Robert Jordan is a nice example. All of his characters, after the third book, are definitely sexual beings, even if the culmination of most of that sexuality is handled off page. It's a thoroughly fair handling that I think people from most sides of the spectrum can appreciate (well, I know some people who get a little pissed at the heternormativity of it, but whatevs) and makes clear that even if the storyteller is enforcing a rating... the characters aren't participating in that restriction.

I remember reading an interview with BS where he called The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms one of his favorite books in the recent year. Or something like that. So does anyone else enjoy her stuff? I certainly do. Here's a sort-of review I did for her most recent book, The Killing Moon. http://thecatastrophists.tumblr.com/post/22122787265/the-killing-moon-by-n-k-jemisinI will mention that her first series, The Inheritance Trilogy, has quite a lot of LGBT material and about one semi-graphic sex scene a book. I mean, Wise Man's Fear kind of blows it out of the water in my opinion and most people don't have a problem with that. They're pretty cool though as the whole cosmology of the series breaks with a lot of traditional treatments of such with the (semi-spoiler) aspect that two of the big G god trinity-- The Light and the Void, aspected as two male entities, created the universe not just with their eons long battles against one another, but also with their eons of lovemaking and that both their love and hate for one another have come to a head in the current theological status quo that is present in the first book. It's definitely interesting to see a world where LGBT is built in at a base theological level. I don't remember reading anything like it before. The Killing Moon, on the other hand, is devoid of overt sexual scenes. There's a gay romance/longing that drives a lot of the book, but it doesn't culminate itself in a sex scene. Is that a spoiler? I don't know really how to give content warning. I mean, there's killing and death, but sexual content-wise it's a PG rating... aside from gay people being gay in a PG way. All of them are quite good. I'm quite excited for The Shadowed Sun.

I liked that it had a fat protagonist. There's not a lot of ugly protagonists in fantasy and I can never quite figure out why.

So who do you think the one who will destroy "us" will be? Is "us" the people who are writing this? It "us" Roshar? The Spren? The Parshendi? Szeth and Shallan are the obvious two as Kaladin and Dalinar are much more conventionally heroic, but then it wouldn't be a swerve if it was obvious. Of course, *if* it is the Ghostbloods writing this (and it could be as a big theme of Stormlight Archive seems to be people doing good by dishonorable means) redeeming and destroying could have different values to them.

Yeah, I forgot all about that Coppermind stuff. I'm reaffirmed in my belief that, even if Sazed isn't doing this, he could if he wanted. ... Though let's break that down for a moment. Not only could Ruin alter copperminds, he could do it for other people. Which isn't supposed to be in Feruchemy. Could Sazed store his strength for centuries in a metalmind that could be used by someone else? That's a lot of speculation for something we know nothing about and you're handwaving the firmest piece of evidence we have about how it works-- that the physical forms show up again when the Shard dies.

Getting back to the topic at hand: I have to agree that I find Vin and Elend to be thoroughly passionless. Which is sad, because they work really well on paper... just not on the page (troubling idiom for a book, I know) Elend's idealism is something precious to Vin. He's not a fighter. He's a scholar. He's a good man trying to become a good king. He's something that she can protect, even when it's far from what the "smart" (read cynicism beat into her on the streets) course of action. It also sets her apart from Kelsier. Vin is someone far outside of Elend's world. She's a thief, a skaa, a mistborn. There's a strange power relationship between the two which is uncommon in fantasy. Elend is basically, all said and done, the "princess". He's noble. He has an evil father, and evil suitor, and while he has political power, it's the hero who has to physically protect him. Which is fun to watch because we don't usually see that subversion. So they work. I like them and their relationship makes sense. It's not easy and it should have pitfalls, but just because they're different and non-traditional doesn't mean that they can't be together. Honestly, if their genders were reversed, they would be pretty conventional. On the page? Eh. BS is good at a lot of things in his books, but passion isn't one of them. Everyone thinks everything through from every angle ad nauseum. Which is fine most of the time, because his characters are, by way of plot, presented with complex problems. Usually, seeing them work through those problems, make mistakes based on that work, then working through it again, is cathartic. Seeing Kaladin trying to figure out what he's going to do with Bridge 4 is cool because it seems for most of the book to be a thoroughly hopeless situation. Kelsier breaking down the problem of killing TLR is cool because we can see it all fall into place and understand the implications of how it comes undone at the end. The problem is that BS uses a lot of these same things for his character work and relationships. Vin and Elend both go through their relationship from every angle so many times in Well of Ascension and it gets to the point where I was at a loss as to why they even wanted to be together. They are passionless. We don't really get them thinking about how great the other one is. The little things about them that enflames their desires or make them want to forget all the stupid navel-gazing. They never say "to hell with it" and overcommit or do something they'll regret and then bear the consequences of that attachment. They see the problems, think through them, and keep their distance. And it's boring. Vin being "tempted" but keeping her distance with Zane is a million times less interesting than her making that mistake and having to deal with it. Elend not pushing with Vin because he knows about her trust issues is much less interesting than them sleeping together and then realizing that their physical and emotional intimacy aren't at comparable levels and then dealing with that. Because that would be raw and interesting. What's on the page? It's like the relationship version of the two master samurai who cross paths, size one another up, and know who would win without ever fighting. It's an interesting concept, but when it's all you do, you just have a movie of people not fighting. Only here you also have to read the pages of analyzing that's going on in each samurai's head. I also thought Sazed's crisis of faith in HoA shared a lot of these problems. Additionally, I found the resolution to them (not the big finale of the series, but Sazed's own little revelation about faith that precedes it) thoroughly unsatisfying. But then, I think my dissatisfaction with the revelation mostly comes down to ideological differences between BS and me. The 3/4 of a book that ramped to it was a schelp for entirely different reasons. WoK does this *much* better by taking Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan's personal arc and then intertwining it with a big plot problem. They're dealing with their own selves while dealing with external conflicts. Sazed's passive for most of HoA and it makes his personal arc the only thing to look at with regards to his segments I'll also say that I thought Sazed and Tindwyl were quite well done, understated, and touching. Same with Breeze and Oren... though less so in HoA. So it's not like he can't do this well. It's just that I think some of his writer instincts work against him here. I have plenty of opinions as to the whole sex and marriage thing, but I think they'd be better served with their own post.

He could still be physically whole and w/ metal minds on the spiritual realm. We don't actually know how that works yet. Presumably, it still exits somehow because it comes back if you die. And who knows. If Leras could let his body be burned as Allomancy, whose to say that Sazed couldn't store his strength in metal minds to be burned at a later date. Yeah, not only can Sazed store his godly power, but as the holder of Preservation, he can burn it at a positive net yeild. He's a Shard compounder. Lol, just kidding. I have no idea.