Puck

I don't think so. That's part of the problem of thinking that the Shaod (or becoming an Elantrian) and the Reod (which causes the sickness) are one. You can be an Elantrian without having the Reod sickness, and you can have the Reod sickness without being an Elantrian. This was the case with Seala (in fact, I believe her case to be the proof of that). I believe that Seala was affected by her own, personal mini-Reod (if you will), caused by that one botched Aon. She never was an Elantrian, even after she got the Sickness. ("The Sickness." Ugh, I'm starting to get irritated by my own terminology!) I think that the way that the Reod selects is a bit higher-level than an Aon surreptitiously cast in the middle of night, so to speak. Maybe related to Seons, but that's just a stab in the dark at this point. All of these points are speculation on my part, of course

Right. But, for what this thread is discussing, the Aon that needed to be fixed is not every Aon in Elantris, but the Elantris-Aon (Rao) itself. It was that Aon (and not the sum of all Aons in Elantris) that acted as the amplifier. It was because that Aon (which targeted Elantrians) was incomplete (after the addition of the Chasm) that Elantrians had the sickness and the Aons weren't as powerful as they had before. Once Raoden figures out the trick and fixes the Elantris-the-City-Aon, the Reod is effectively over; the subsequent Aon-fixing is clerical. One could insist that the Reod isn't Over until every last Aon is fixed and every last Elantrian knows how to create Aons effectively, but that just seems... excessive. I'd rather not get too nitpicky about this. As with all historical periods (Dark Ages, Renaissance, Enlightenment, etc), it's always hard to pin a definite start/end date. The Reod is such a period in the Elantrian world. I consider Raoden's discovery of the problem with Aons and fixing of the AonDor amplifier (thus healing the sickness) as the end of the Reod (or the Aons-mysteriously-not-working-like-they-used-to period).

Fair enough. Even though the little evidence we have does support the point, I agree that a study with only one case is hardly authoritative. I agree. I feel our differences here are basically semantic ('event' = 'phenomenon' for all intents and purposes). That's why, in Premise 1, I said that "the best way to look at the Reod is an event [or phenomenon, if you prefer. 'Period' would have been the best word, in retrospect] in which all Aons no longer work properly." I like the Software Patch & Update analogy

I definitely don't have all of the answers here (especially regarding how the Reod selects its candidates), but I might be able to offer some clarification on the original question Here are the premises (ie - the facts): 1) We need to keep in mind the difference between the Shaod and the Reod. They are 2 separate things. They're not even 2 sides to the same coin, really, but 2 independent processes. ---a) The Shaod is (for the purposes of this discussion) timeless, existing independently of the Reod. --- The Reod is temporary; because of the landscape of Arelon changing, the Aons that the Elantrians draw (and have drawn) became incomplete (and therefor ineffectual or, at worst, corrupted) spells. Really, the best way to look at the Reod is an event in which all Aons no longer wrk properly. ---c) The Reod is not the changing of an Elantrian into a bald, sickly, hairless creature that is unable to heal from pain, etc. This Sickness is a consequence of the Reod, but not the Reod itself 2) Brandon has referred to Elantris as an amplifier (Ch. 62.2 annotation). If I may, I believe that the most precise way of saying what he meant to say was this: Elantris is an amplification spell. ---a) Aons (with a capital A) are spells. These spells have 2 requirements: an aon (lower-case a) and an someone taken by the Shaod (i.e. - an Elantrian) hand to draw them. --- An Elantrian can use any tool to create an Aon; it doesn't have to be a finger (p. 505) ---c) It follows that the City of Elantris, which is a big aon created by Elantrian hands, is an Aon - a spell. And, as Brandon has stated, it's an amplification spell, targeted to amplify the powers of those taken by the Shaod. (I know I'm dwelling on this point, but it's very important.) 3) The key to understanding the Sickness is the "control experiment" that Brandon has given us: Seala (Dilaf's wife/significant other) This is crucial. Seala was not an Elantrian (in the proper sense of 'someone taken by the Shaod'), but she did get the Sickness when a spell-went-wrong targeted her. And here's the rest of the reasoning (ie - the conjecture): 4) The Sickness can affect anyone (Elantrian or not) who is targeted by an Aon-gone-wrong (and it doesn't affect people who aren't targeted by an Aon-gone-wrong) 5) The City-of-Elantris-Aon targets Elantrians (to amplify their power) 6) During the Reod, the City-of-Elantris-Aon (and every other Aon, for that matter) was an Aon-gone-wrong 7) During the Reod, the Elantrians had the Sickness because they were the targets (for 10 years) of a mal-formed Aon. The Shaod didn't fail; it still happened normally (remember premise 1). It's just that for 10 years, in addition to the Shaod, there was also the Reod which targeted anyone taken by the Shaod. To put it in another way: Pre-Reod Elantrians = Shaod Reod Elantrians = Shaod + Reod (and the Reod includes the Sickness) Post-Reod Elantrians = Shaod Did any of that make sense? I feel like I've digressed into rambling. I'll stop now.

does that mean that whoever claims Vin gets to slay you with a massive spear?

narf!

I agree. Brilliant! More favorites: "Funny. I have lots of time. I could sit here all day, so long as it involves not being eaten." "What is it you eat, again?" "Cows. Pigs. Carrots. Very few wolves."

You're wrong! *sees how this could quickly deteriorate into a Monty Python sketch ( )*

Thanks!

All good points Andrew. And, to be clear, it's not that I think that this pool is of Skai. I just think that there's enough evidence to cast a shadow of doubt on something that many take for granted. And in those shadows, we thrive! (or something)

the spambot strikes again! i deleted the message from the offending article ("God King"), but someone might need to pull some preventative Admin-jitsu

"Eshene," from Elantris. Her name is actually Eshen. So I'll just create a new page, copy the info over, and change all of the links that link to Eshene into links to Eshen (if and when I find any).

May I propose that we normalize the tense in all of the wiki entries? I believe the default tense should be present. Thoughts? Also, is it possible to rename a page? If not, how do I create a new/delete one?

I vote Jedi, because they're essentially burning Atium constantly (and without Vin's clever loophole)

I agree wholeheartedly Brilliant! You rock zas!

Hello everyone. I'm Puck (known as Kurt in the Physical Realm). I live in Rhode Island (moved from Utah a couple of years ago). I discovered 17thshard.com about a week ago and have been catching up on the new theories in the General Theories section. I am now caught up, so huzzah to me! I'm very excited about 17thshard.com! When I first read that there was an underlying cosmere a couple of years ago, I started re-reading all of the works and annotations. I moonlighted (moonlit? oh English) on TWG for a while but didn't stick around because (1) I felt like I'd come in too late in the game to really contribute there and (2) they didn't have a wiki, which I consider essential for the task we have at hand So you'll see me starting to haunt the forums (beginning, oh, yesterday). I'll be focusing most of my energy on the Wiki. My goal (as I might have stated in another post) is to make this site the authority on all things cosmere. I want our wiki to be the first one that people look to when they want to research (mostly because I'm sick of looking in more than one place myself ;D). Right now I'm working on Elantris. So yeah, that's me and what I'll be doing. Pleasure to meet all of you ---------------- Contact info (in case of... I have no idea): In the Cognitive Realm I'm pretty much always Puck. If it's taken, I'm Locke219 AIM: Iarwain BenAtar (don't ask) GChat: [email protected]

I think this is the right answer. We see Raoden using Aons before Elantris is 'fixed', but they're exceptionally weaker than standard. That is the right answer:

Good call, mycoltbug. It sucks that he rarely comes to my neck of the woods (New England)

I have a feeling the Stormlight Archive is going to prove (if it already hasn't proven) this wrong. Even putting spren and the Shades to one side, Rhyshadium seem to be sentient. Feeling that one is deserving of something is the kind of second-level cognition around which the very idea of sentience is based. Combine this with the idea of Rhyshadium choosing their rider, and you've either got a persistent, misleading anthropomorphizing on Brandon's part or you've got a sentient non-human.

Gah! no time to think of new ones! I'll post my standby list: Warbreaker - Can Returned have children? If so, who was the first Returned to do so? Elantris - How long ago (before Elantris 1) was Elantris built? - When Dilaf is instructing the monks in how to kill the Elantrians, he mentions purification rights that need to be spoken. Do the rites have to do with the Dor? Or are they purely religious/ritualistic? - Was Wyrn's drive to topple Elantris purely a typical, conquest-related motivation? Or did it arise after Fjordell gained access to the Dor? - I know it's a RAFO, but how the eff did Wyrn see into the future? That seems above even a Shardholder's abilities! I bet that sucker's tapping into the Shadesmar. But i digress.. - Regarding Dilaf's flashback: Did the 'spell' that messed his wife up go wrong because of human error? Or was it because Dilaf was, in some way, inadvertently interfering? - If a Dhakor (Dilaf) could erase a symbol written by an Elantrian (Raoden), could an Elantrian erase/heal a Dhakor bone-symbol? - Is Jesker and/or the Mysteries simply another religion? Or do they have DulaDor (as opposed to AonDor, FjorDor, and ChayDor, as I refer to them in my head)? - (probably another RAFO) the "expensive, burning rocks from the south:" are they parallel to Atium/Larasium/TearsoE? - Ashe says to Sarene "your god" (emphasis added). Do seons have a religion/god? Mistborn - Were mistcloaks inspired by the funeral shrouds in Elantris? - You've said that, at the end of the trilogy, Kelsier had become a Sliver (http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/264132-q-a-with-brandon-sanderson?page=2). When did this happen and how? Did Sazed just go "here ya go, buddy; here's a bit of my power for ya," or was it something more subtle/universal? is it sufficient to post here? what should i do with them?

I'm not sure that's the case, Squallor. The Shaod is not more likely to take those closer to the city, it's more likely to take those of Aonic heritage. Those taken who weren't Arelenes were either of mixed-descent with the Arelenes (eg - Galladon) or genetic first cousins to them (the occasional Teo has been known to be taken). [[EDIT: just reread the Ch 55 annotations and you are partially right: So part of it is the geography. I apologize]]Also, I wouldn't say that the Shaod is random at all. In fact, all "automated" forms of power-granting (for lack of a better word) seem to have some underlying structure. Snapping has the rule of 16%, Returning has... something, and the Shaod only happens at night. Consistencies like this can't be disregarded. I think that very little about Brandon's Unifying Theory of Magic allows for complete randomness. ------------------------ I'm going through Elantris at the moment, in order to beef up the Coppermind (w/ references, links, page #s, cited quotations - I want it to be the authoritative wiki on all things Cosmere, so it's taking a while).

What is the deadline? When are these questions being asked?

I think a page in the Coppermind would make more sense for something like this. But it's a great idea

(I apologize in advance for the long post) I think there is evidence for why the Elantris pool is Skai. Rather, more specifically, there is significant evidence for why it's not Aona: 1) The pool is an hour hike (p. 354) away from the city. While this is hardly continents away, it is something 2)

In a B&N interview, Brandon said the following: