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little wilson

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Everything posted by little wilson

  1. little wilson
    I'm going to guess that the third is Carl Sagan. I'll check upon posting this, and if it's wrong, as per the rules of the game, I'll post a funny pic and the right answer. Name 6 Oceanic countries and their capitals EDIT: Looks like it was Robert Heinlein. Oops. Well, here's your funny gif (since I like gifs better than pics):
  2. little wilson
    Joe is having computer issues so the writeup will be a little late. But he's working on it.
  3. little wilson
    Oh! Liechtenstein (Vaduz) Slovenia (Ljubljana) Bosnia and Herzegovina (Sarajevo) Serbia (Belgrade) Bulgaria (Sofia) Belarus (Minsk) Kosovo (Pristina) Malta (Valetta) Moldova (Chisinau) Name 5 'stan countries.
  4. little wilson
    Personally, I've had a village read on Eol since he called out Sart like he did a few cycles ago. In case I die (possible, but unlikely since I have protection right now), my reads: Village: Aman, Eol, Emerald Weak Villager reads: Elbereth, Burnt, Magestar, Jaime Neutral/Neutral-Evil: Kipper, Alv, Stink, Elenion, Elodin Eliminator: Aonar, Sart The others are people I have no real read on or conflicting reads. I keep going back and forth for both Orlok and Lopen. EDIT: forgot Elodin
  5. little wilson
    Sigh. I'm honestly disappointed that I have to do this. I'd hoped more people would've read the rules but I guess not. Let's look at the win conditions for the all the factions/possible factions. Villagers: Eliminators: Neutral: Neutral-Evil: Now, let's look at what we're heard about the Jeskeri faction. For the sake of this discussion, I am going to assume that the Jeskeri are a real team. Are the Jeskeri Neutral? Or are they Neutral-Evil? As previously mentioned, Neutrals can win with anyone. Neutral-Evils can only win with Neutrals or Eliminators. What is the (claimed) Jeskeri win con? To kill all non-Jeskeri players. Well, if they were Neutral, they wouldn't have to kill everyone because they can win with anyone. So they're not Neutral. Which leaves Neutral-Evil. Which means that they can win with everyone but the village. Now, I want to note something about their claimed win con: they say they can only win when all non-Jeskeri are dead. What about Neutrals, who, per the WoJ ("Neutral roles have win conditions that can be fulfilled with any team"), can win with anyone? According to the Jeskeri, they would have to kill or convert the Neutrals. According to Joe, they should be able to win with the Neutrals. Someone is lying here, and I'm certain that it's not Joe. What does this lie tell us? They have something they wish to hide from the village. Why would they want to hide something from the village? What would they gain for wishing to deceive the village? Well, they'd gain the village's blind acceptance of a plan where the village doesn't actually have all the details. And why would they lie? Because they can't win with the village, and because of that, they have no allegiance to the village and won't actually abide by any "alliance" that some villagers may wish to agree to. Result of analysis: Jeskeri are Neutral-Evil (or they are eliminators) Moving on. Will this alliance work? Can a village convert cause a win for both teams? No. Why do I say that? Because of win conditions: Joe specifically says in the signup post that Neutral-Evils or Eliminators (of which the Jeskeri are one or the other) cannot win with the village. 'But Elodin said the convert retains their alignment win conditions!' you say. Sure. That's what he says. Is that true? We have no idea. And even if it is, that would just mean that they specific convert can win with either team. But they have to choose which team they want to win as. If the Jeskeri convert an eliminator and a villager, does that mean everyone can win? No! Per the rules, Neutral-Evils cannot win with the village. Therefore, the village convert has to choose. The eliminator, however, might not have to. Because Neutral-Evils can win with Eliminators. Result of analysis: Saying that a convert keeps both alignments does not equate to them being able to win for both alignments. We will never know all the information about the Jeskeri, because Joe will PAFO it. Not true. Per the rules: So if a role is revealed, Joe will will answer questions about it. I'm not sure if that means attacked and revealed or player-thread-revealed. Regardless, he specifically says that he will reveal all rules about a role when that role dies. I would assume that this also goes for secret alignments/teams, since those are parts of the role. The "other circumstances" more likely refers to a situation where you could glean more info without a person dying. I really really don't think a player with a secret role would die without the secrets inherent in their role being revealed. Result of analysis: We can know the Jeskeri information by killing one of the Jeskeri. If we maintain a strong enough grip on them, we can control them for a short period of time. No, we can't. For one, that assumes that we know everything about them, which we don't. We don't even know what their real win con is. We need to kill one of them to know all the secrets their keeping from us. Only then can we trust them to be telling the truth about their team. But how receptive do you really think they'll be when we've killed one of their members? Not very. And if we can't kill one of their members to know what they're withholding, we can't maintain any kind of a grip on them at all, because we don't know what they can do. We don't know what their real goal is. Well, actually we know one thing: They cannot win with the village. Two, do you honestly think they will let themselves be controlled by a faction they can't win with? No. They will be holding the reins the entire time, even while they convince us that we are in charge. We're not and we never will be. Not with this alliance. There is no controlling them. "Oh, but we'll threaten to kill them!" Okay, and you think they honestly haven't predicted that? I guarantee you that they have and that they have a plan in place should we do that (as we should). It doesn't matter because we will only know one of them at a time, and while their team is small, we don't know all their members. So a threat to kill them falls just a little bit short when we can't actually kill them. We can only kill the person we know of. Who wouldn't be known if he wasn't expendable. Three, why do we even need an alliance? For information? You realize that's not information we can trust, right? They want to kill us. That's their win con. While they'll be honest and truthful about some of it--possibly even most of it--they will also tell some lies. It's guaranteed. How do you propose we separate the truths from the lies? We can't. Therefore, we cannot trust the info they provide because we cannot trust them. Hence, an alliance for information-gathering purposes is useless. Do you want an alliance to direct their kill? Why do we need their kill? We don't. We have our own kill abilities. You want to direct their kill so you can keep it off of important villagers? That won't help the village. That just narrows the field down for them on who we don't want them to attack so they know who to attack here in a couple cycles. So we might be able to to direct the kill for a couple nights, but that's not directing their kills. That's them choosing to kill who we tell them to kill. We're not forcing them to do anything. It is always their choice. Which is exactly why they will always remain in control. In MR10, Aman was an outed eliminator with a known kill ability. He told the village he'd provide information and that he would kill who they told him to kill, so long as they left him alive. The village made a temporary alliance with him, leaving him alive and directing his kills. He went with it for a cycle or two, but then eventually, he went against the village's wishes and turned on them, and before the village could kill him, his team finished off the remaining villagers and won the game. With Aman still alive. The village kept a known eliminator with a kill alive. Now, you can say that this is a different situation because the Neutral-Evils aren't Eliminators, but it's actually not terribly different at all. Sure, the village doesn't have to kill them to win, but they have to kill the village to win. That's certain, based on their part of their win conditions. Looking the other way and hoping that they won't stab you in the back while you're pointing out someone else for them to kill is foolhardy. Result of analysis: We cannot control them. An alliance is not in the village's best interests, for the reasons I've just stated. They will never give the full list of their faction to us. It won't happen. Even if they give one or two of their teammates, we won't get their full team, because they will withhold names, and we won't know. We only have their word for it. The word of people who do not share our win con and cannot win with us. Your insistence that it's a good idea makes me this close to suggesting your death because I honestly cannot see a single way that you could possibly be a villager at this point. You are far more likely to have been converted. I'd suggest you, Elenion, because you're not helping the village at all either. At least Stink is making sense even if he's Neutral. He's a lot better of a villager than you are, and he's not even village! And really, why do people keep threatening him? Why do people keep suggesting we should kill him? He's done nothing wrong or against his own personal win con. He is neutral. Let him be neutral. He's not being a troll. He's not being unhelpful. He doesn't know much. He just wants to survive. Let him.
  6. little wilson
    I never said the village loss would be due to a Jeskeri win. Though allying with the Jeskeri will help the Jeskeri significantly, really the only team an alliance like that would make lose is the village. The eliminators could absolutely pull out a win. This is again why an alliance is an utterly terrible idea for the village.
  7. little wilson
    Did you forget the part where neutral evils can't win with the village? Allying with them kills us. It ends in a village loss, almost certainly. You can say that he'll give us information, but we cannot trust anything he says. He will say anything to get us to do something stupid that helps his faction win. Now, you weren't around for the few games where an outed eliminator was able to convince the village not to kill them by promising to give information and kill who the village requested. But guess what? The village lost. Neutral evils can win with eliminators. The only hindrance to them is the village. If you want to help the neutral evils, you're not acting in the village's best interests. Simple as that. And if you're not acting in the village's best interests, I have to wonder why.
  8. little wilson
    How would that help? We already know almost for sure that you're neutral evil. Having a Dula check you is pointless since all it would do is confirm that you're not evil. Which still doesn't clear up the questions about your faction and the lies you've no doubt mixed in with the truth. I'd rather use the Dula to check possible eliminators, thanks.
  9. little wilson
    I will not support any alliance the village tries to make with the Jeskeri, and I have a pretty good feeling most other actual villagers feel the same way. Those pushing for even the chance of an alliance are unlikely to be Citizens. They are more likely to be neutral, neutral evil, or evil. There will be no alliance with the Jeskeri. It would be a painfully foolish thing to do.
  10. little wilson
    A ridiculous gamble to make with someone who's confessed to wanting to kill all the villagers. If you have to kill the villagers to win, you are not neutral.
  11. little wilson
    From the rules: However, the rules also state the neutral evils cannot win with the village, so therefore they will be trying to kill the village. While we don't have to kill neutral evils to win, they'll be a hazard that isn't really worth dealing with if we know who they are. Since, you know, they're killing us. Since, you know, they can't win with us. #logic
  12. little wilson
    Their win con is to kill everyone else. Do you honestly think there's even a chance that they're pure neutral?! No. They are either neutral evil or evil. According to the rules of the game, neutrals can win with any faction. Neutral evils cannot win with the village. Why is this even a discussion?
  13. little wilson
    No, it's not just you. However, assuming the Jeskeri are truly neutral evil, we don't have to kill them to win. We only have to kill the eliminators. Additionally, we only have Elodin's word that the converted would be both alignments. It's simple for someone to lie about something like that, and the village will never know if that's true or not. Because if it's a lie, the converted is also going to lie and say that they can help the village win. We cannot trust anything Elodin says. I say we kill him.
  14. little wilson
    Next to the Cougareat.
  15. little wilson
    PMs aren't allowed during the night...
  16. little wilson
    Depends on how many people we have. The atrium is good for 3-5 but when it gets more than that, we don't really have a whole lot of room. But the Wilk's tables are much bigger, so if we're going to have 6+ people, it would be better to move it to the Wilk. Edit: Plus, if the group is consistently going to be 5+ henceforth (which it sounds like it probably will be), we'll need to be in the Wilk once the semester starts anyway, since we'd be a pretty big disruption for anyone studying/reading in the atrium.
  17. little wilson
    Do we still want to use the atrium of the JFSB or move it to the Wilk by the Cougareat?
  18. little wilson
    I'm good with that.
  19. little wilson
    @Jeffywan had hoped for an early August meeting, so he might be coming?
  20. little wilson
    The kind of eliminator who wants to say that exact thing in their defense.
  21. little wilson
    Just popping in here to say that hiding posts is not allowed unless you've posted the same post twice (or more) in a row. The general rules state that posts cannot be edited or changed of meaning in any way. That includes hiding them so regular players can't even see them. Hidden posts that shouldn't have been hidden will be unhidden by moderators. Thank you.
  22. little wilson
    Maill was one of those protection claims, so 2 now. The other protection claim can't protect a Dula if we want the Dula to be useful so that leaves the last one, who is not someone I'd rely on for protecting that kind of role for an extended period of time.
  23. little wilson
    Where are you getting your evidence, Stink?
  24. little wilson
    I'm not in a PM with Araris.
  25. little wilson
    Um. I have no reason to lie about this, because I have virtually nothing to gain based on the nature of Dulas (only seeing eliminator alignment and not neutral or neutral-evil), and if I am telling the truth, I actually have quite a bit to lose, since if there are multiple eliminator factions, they'll already know that I'm not on their team so they don't have to worry about attacking me and hitting someone who could've potentially been helping them by killing. You make it seem like I'm trying to push the idea of my being village based on this scan. I'm not. The only reason I even mentioned the scan publicly was because Lopen tried to cast doubt on a number of people for what I thought was a ridiculous reason, so I contested it by mentioning that not only had I actually posted, but I'd also been checked by a Dula, so clearly his theory about the eliminators not posting to avoid being checked doesn't quite hold water since some Dulas might still just check those who haven't posted (because I know that my Dula wasn't sure about my post and if it would be allowed under the circumstances of the vote Joe had called for. But he decided to take a risk anyway to check me). Please note that I'm not saying that I particularly trust my Dula or expect you to trust the Dula. Not at all. But to trust that someone approached me, claimed Dula, and scanned me as a non-eliminator? I think that's reasonable. Does that mean you're believing a scan actually happened? No. Because that's something else. There's a chance that my Dula could be evil and lying about being a Dula and saying that they scanned me to get me to trust them. Do I think that's what happening? No. But I haven't written off the possibility. The only claim I am making is that someone claimed Dula and that they scanned me and then claimed to scan Magestar. If they are a Dula, and they are village, we can trust the results--which again, isn't even saying terribly much since Magestar or I could be Neutral-Evil and therefore working against the village. Stop trying to spin my words into saying something that I'm not. You expressed skepticism over a claim. I debated the validity of that skepticism, particularly the way you were implying that the Dula prove that he exists and that he scanned me (which I still take issue with. I mean what were you expecting? Two or three others to come forward and be like "Yeah, I had a Dula contact me saying they scanned Wilson"? Would that actually make you trust the Dula? Probably not. And even if it did convince you that the Dula was real, you'd then likely be worried about the Dula's safety because they've just revealed themselves to a couple of people who are unknowns. Not exactly the best course of action for an alignment scanner...) You know what? Kipper. I already didn't trust you based on my PM with you. I think you're phishing for information in a way that is detrimental to the village, and therefore it's highly likely that you're either Neutral Evil or just plan Evil. Either way, I don't care if you die.
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