little wilson

This game is ready to close. Thanks to Seonid and Rae for running another great sequel to the Shard games. Thanks to everyone who played as well. We could never have such great games without all of you. Congratulations to both HH and Pyro for your wins, especially Headshot. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Orlok or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we and the committee (Aonar, Aman, El, Joe, and Stink) would be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in the Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs who can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

This game is rather overdue for getting closed up. Thanks Elenion for running such an interesting game, and to all the players playing. Congratulations to the Skybreakers and the Inmates for your individual victories, particularly the Skybreakers for completing in an impressively short period of time (*cough*Orlok*cough*). As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Orlok or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we and the committee (Aonar, Aman, El, Joe, and Stink) would be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in the Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs who can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

Oh, I know you did it purposefully. I caught the undertones of it, which was why I found it so funny.

So, first, I was extremely upset at the start of the game at being made a lover. It felt like an intentional troll to reference my being the lynchpin of a love triangle in LG12, which wasn't something I wanted to be reminded about, because I spent the two months of that game in a constant state of stress because of the target on mine and both of my lovers' backs. We then died on the last turn for no good reason and lost, so I didn't even have a win to point to as meager solace for all that stress. To compound this, stress is very bad, especially when it lasts for such a long period of time. It can do things to the body. Like cause an autoimmune disease. Or severe iron deficiency. Or in my case, both. (It can also do much more than that, but you get my point). So when I think back on LG12, I don't have the best of feelings about it, yet I acknowledge that it could be a really fun game, so when this rerun came around, I surprised myself by being super-interested in playing it, even though I haven't really desperately wanted to play a game since before November. But I wanted to give this another shot. And then I was made a lover and all of those feelings from LG12 came flooding back, and I was furious (which was amusing to Fifth, for various reasons, and it's mildly amusing to me in hindsight but still). Anyway. Hero mentioned right near the start that as a Jindo lover, if my lover dies and I save myself from lover-death, I return to my original alignment and win condition. I debated with myself about this for a while. Should I turn on Len and arrange for him to get lynched? Or should I work with Len? For the first cycle, I decided not to make a decision about it. I'd just play things by ear. Then Steel swore Len as Odiv, and that changed things for me slightly. I couldn't arrange for him to be lynched, since that would hurt the Derethi faction a ton, and I also didn't like the idea of returning to village while knowing the identity of the Gyorn. But I still didn't want to throw all-in with the Derethi since while Len at that point couldn't win with the village, I still could. I just couldn't help the village find the Derethi. But I did what I could about the Jeskeri. See, it's funny you say this, because after you said that you'd scanned Len, I was worried that it was because of something I'd said to you in that PM. Maybe I'd pushed to hard or....I wasn't sure what. But knowing that it was just the lover claim helps, though it's mildly irritating that it caused a false-positive, since the lover claim was true, yet you still caught the Odiv and the Gyorn because of that one scan (with some masterful manipulation, btw. I was seriously impressed). Anyway, after Seonid posted in the thread about Steel and Len, I shot him a PM and spilled everything. The Derethi had both been caught and were screwed. I had no intention of going down with them, fun as it had been to lie to Seonid about having a Derethi pendant while trying to help the Derethi. And then Len tried to convince people there was a secret role and he couldn't possibly be the Odiv, and I'm just sitting here going "Oops. Maybe I shouldn't have told Seonid Len was indeed the Odiv?" Sorry, Len. Which leads me to this: This is interesting because, yes, there absolutely was a plan. Pyro had given me passphrase (though I'd suspected it was fake), and I passed it on to Len when he was up for the lynch. I assume Len passed it on to Devotary and Jon, because I know the plan was for all of us to vote on Lopen and then Jon would use his Derethi pendant on Len to cancel all the votes of the converts, thereby saving Len from the lynch and lynching Lopen in his stead. I had no intention of getting involved. There's a reason I was mostly silent in the thread that day, despite Len saying I could verify his story. Len had passed me that pendant, just as I'd said in the thread a cycle or two before, but I wasn't about to make claims that Len hadn't started with the pendant, or anything else. I was going to passively sit back and watch Len get lynched. I didn't want to vote with Len and aggravate the village into killing me after he died, but I also didn't want to vote on Len and betray him. So I'd decided to do nothing. And then Lopen revealed me as Len's lover (while also making it seem like I would defend Len above all else when I'd already turned my back on him), and put that target back on me, but this time from the village too, because I'm now a lover with the Odiv. I was very much not thrilled about that, and it pushed me to action that turn. There's a reason I worded the end of that post the way I did: "You've just incited my ire. You really shouldn't have done that." See, the passphrase that I'd given Len was a guess based on what I recalled form the Pyro PM. But I went back into that PM after that and checked it, realizing I'd had it a little wrong. I corrected it to Len and then cast a secret vote with it. Had the passphrase not been a fake, pushing me to action would've directly resulted in your death, Lopen. Or at least, it would've if Jon and Devotary hadn't bailed on the sinking Derethi ship (not that I blame them, since I'd basically done the same thing). All-in-all, I enjoyed this game. I thoroughly enjoyed working with Len. Steel thoroughly amused me when he made a comment in the thread about how he'd never seen how good I am with PMs, but that he was really glad I was on [his] side. I about died of laughter when I saw that. It was fun working with Aman for that short period of time, and also Seonid. And thanks for jousting with me in that PM, @Dalinar Kholin. It was quite fun, and I still say you're wrong to assume everyone experiences horrible suffering that only you can relieve them of by killing them. Additionally, it doesn't seem very Jaist to say that you'll suffer for doing this when I'm pretty sure you're supposed to get happiness in return for your devotion to the Ja and suffering isn't happiness last I checked, so.... After talking with Jon, I started to doubt a bit about Drought, actually. Straw was obviously still a suspect, but what I mentioned after rollover was true: last cycle, I'd got this feeling that Walin was voting on himself as a smokescreen, to make people think he couldn't possibly be evil because why would an evil person constantly vote on themselves. Something just felt off to me. And then I thought he'd taken over for Joe, and couldn't possibly be evil, and didn't actually bother verifying that. When I made that post in the thread and was promptly corrected, it took me a little bit to remember that I'd felt off about him beforehand, and then I went back and read his defense and caught his comment about how if he were Jeskeri, there weren't any Jeskeri Elantrians at the time, and I was like "Wait a second. This isn't a hypothetical and doesn't make sense as one. How would you know there were no Jeskeri Elantrians at the time of the scan? Unless you are Jeskeri." And I started writing a post addressing that, with the intention of switching my vote to him, when things got crazy at work and I didn't get another free second until after rollover. Twas sad. But yes, working with you was interesting, even if you spent most of it trying to get me not to trust you, yet asking me if I did. >>

Blast. I was actually going to move my vote to Walin, but then something happened at work. While reading back over his comment about Jeskeri Elantrians, I realized he gave away too much information. Alas. >>

Sarcasm aside, before I wrongly convinced myself that Walin took over for Joe (btw.... Who did? Because I honestly can't remember at this point), I was wondering about him and if the voting for himself was merely a convenient smokescreen.

Yes, because I mixed up our pinch hitters and therefore must be Jeskeri, even though that would mean the team had two Jindos when the village doesn't have a single kill ability to use on the Jeskeri, Seonid scanned me as Arelish, and the Jeskeri attacked me twice. Brilliant deduction, Jon.

Regardless of what circumstantial evidence may point to Walin, he's almost certainly not Jeskeri. Remember, he took over for Joe. Joe used a Korathi pendant on Seonid and announced it to the thread. Two things about this: first, I highly doubt a Jeskeri with a Korathi pendant would use it that early in the game. That seems like an unnecessarily foolhardy thing to do. Second, if you recall, shortly after Joe did this, I mentioned to the thread that if the priest (Seonid) is evil, Joe must be. Joe saw this and voted in himself shortly after that. I'm near-certain Joe caught the implications of what I was saying and were he evil, he would've guessed that Seonid was the priest. And Seonid would've been killed far before he was. Yet he wasn't killed until Len outed him. This strongly indicates that Joe, and therefore Walin, is not evil. While he's not entirely absolved, there are certainly people we should focus on long before targeting him. Straw. He'd my biggest suspect right now. I've had an off feeling about him since early on and it feels different this game than the usual Straw-off vibe. He's been hiding/laying low, and that comment during the night about elim numbers left seemed either intentionally misleading or letting on that he has more information than a villager should. One of the two, but it definitely didn't feel village to me. Additionally, the fact that Seonid didn't die until he was outed to the thread indicates that the remaining elims haven't been paying terribly much attention to the game. Straw fits this perfectly.

If there are two Jeskeri left and we can't lynch even one of them before Day 14, we deserve to lose.

Rules are a good thing to read before revealing things about other people: Or, ya know, you can just assume I'm 100% loyal to my lover when I'm Jindo and could survive it, and therefore turn on me and open me up to attack and death and loss. That's cool too.

*she, thank you very much I'm not the last village Jindo. There had to've been three who started in the game, one Jeskeri and two Arelish. Dalinar and I both protected myself the first night I was attacked and saved. I asked the GMs what happens if two Jindos protect a person who's attacked and they said that both are exhausted (which, just so you know, Hero, I have major beefs with for balance purposes because that's ridiculously unprecedented and should've been made clear at the start of the game). Therefore, Dalinar and I were both useless the second night I was attacked, and yet I was still saved. By a third Jindo. I was hoping this third Jindo would protect Seonid last night, but alas, they did not. I, meanwhile, protected myself and will therefore be saved from lover-death when Len dies to the lynch. This will not turn me neutral, btw. This will turn me village. Apparently if a Jindo saves themselves from lover-death, they don't become in love with themselves. They return to their original alignment and win con. Also Lopen. Why? Why did you reveal that? What was the point? To make me a target and kill me? Thanks, but no thanks. You've just incited my ire. You really shouldn't have done that.

My vote was cancelled because I apparently did two Seon actions during the day, unintentionally. Next time, Pyro, please don't ask me a question an hour before rollover. Thanks.

So my lack of activity this cycle has been due to managing a movie theatre and handling the Infinity War release. It's been fun. However, I'm off work for the night and while checking my PMs, I learned that Steel was scanned as Derethi. So he's definitely either the Gyorn or the Odiv and my money is on the Gyorn.

More spoilers:

I've felt he was off in a different way than usual since the beginning of the game. I could see him as either Derethi or Jeskeri (and yeah, I'm aware of the vote on Drake, but he could've easily been keeping up with the game though the doc and known it was pointless to check back in to remove the vote through doc communication).

Dalinar said he protected me, though he wouldn't tell me why when I asked what the goal was. And he wouldn't have protected me last night. It would've been the first night I was attacked. My lover and I suspect it was a Healthy Gazelle Gambit, in which the eliminators attack and protect a villager in hopes of casting suspicion on them. We think Drake was supposed to do that, but then we backed him into a corner by having him defend himself and then get lynched. Thus, when their Gambit failed, they really tried to kill me and the other Jindo protected me.

I just realized I never actually voted. While it doesn't really matter at this point, Dalinar.

Well considering I received a pendant the night you said you'd passed a pendant, I just kind of figured....

I haven't technically been converted, though Len passed me that pendant, which I still have.

Lopen, I blame this on you. Also, I'm sorry, priest, for what I'm about to do. Last night, Lopen told me that Dalinar wished to speak with me, so I shot him a PM. He confessed to being a Jindo Warrior and said that he had protected me the night before and was now exhausted. I'm sure you're wondering "Wilson, why are you giving up a Jindo Warrior?!" Well, see. That's simple: he was just scanned as Jeskeri, and I'm 100% certain that it wasn't a pendant messing with that alignment. (And Lopen, I'm sure you'll see that 100% and think I'm exaggerating or lying, but actually in this case, I'm doing neither, because I'm literally 100% certain). How am I so certain, you ask? Here's how I'm pretty sure that PM was supposed to go: Dalinar: I'm a Jindo Warrior and I protected you last night and am now exhausted. I also have no items, and could you keep my identity a complete secret? You can tell the priest that you're in contact with a Jindo, but please don't tell anyone who I am. Wilson: Huh. That's....worrisome. And yeah, I'll totally keep your identity a secret. No problem. But you're really a Jindo and you protected me last night? Dalinar: Yep. And thanks. Wilson: Well, crap. If you're exhausted, my other Jindo contact must've been lying to me. Dalinar: Oh...I didn't think about that. Could they be Jeskeri then? Wilson: I...guess so? Dalinar: Who is it? Maybe I can let you know what I think about them? I hope they were telling the truth, because then we could coordinate protects and everything, but it sounds like they were lying about protecting you so.... Wilson: [name of Jindo] *Jindo dies* Here's how it really went: Dalinar: I'm a Jindo Warrior and I protected you last night and am now exhausted. I also have no items, and could you keep my identity a complete secret? You can tell the priest that you're in contact with a Jindo, but please don't tell anyone who I am. Wilson: Huh. That's interesting. Because I am a Jindo Warrior and I protected myself and am now exhausted. But sure, I won't tell anyone your identity. Dalinar: Well that's awkward. You're the most likely to be attacked tonight. I claimed to Lopen too. If I die tonight, he must be evil. Wilson: Well, see, if Lopen is evil, he'd still have more reason to go after me, because I'm not only a Jindo. I'm a lover too. Can you protect me tomorrow night if I survive? Dalinar: Yep. I believe that Dalinar wanted me to keep his identity secret so the priest wouldn't scan him to check his alignment. Unfortunately for him, the priest had already decided to scan him. I did keep his identity secret. Well, except from my lover. But no secrets between lovers, ya know? And it really looks like he was phishing for the name of my Jindo contact, and additionally trying to get me to second-guess them. He in particular was in a fine place to do that, since he's been so widely village-read. There was a good chance I would trust him (and he wasn't wrong about that, clearly), giving him the information he wanted. I also think he was being absolutely genuine when he said that my being my own Jindo Warrior contact was really awkward, because it meant that I wouldn't doubt the veracity of my contact. So, sure, I gave him the name of the Jindo Warrior, but I never doubted them for a second. And here's the other thing: by his own admittance, he has no items. Therefore, the Jeskeri scan is true. Dalinar is totes evil. And because of that, the Jeskeri know that I am a Jindo Warrior and a lover, hence why I'm outing myself to the thread. There's no reason to keep it from the village when the Jeskeri know for sure. Sorry, lover, for not running this by you first, but you gave me permission to do it last cycle and I didn't do it then, so I assume it's still fine. Finally, while I'm 100% sure Dalinar is Jeskeri, I'm less certain we should lynch him today. The priest thinks we should focus on the gyorn, and I see his point, even if I really want to kill Dalinar (no offense. But I had a gut read about you back when you made that post about Araris. It felt very off to me, but I didn't think much of it, and then everyone started reading you as village, so I assumed I must've been wrong, and now I'm a little irked with myself for ignoring that read). Even if we do chose to lynch Dalinar today, I would suggest that we focus the bulk of our discussion around the Gyorn/Odiv, because if we don't start looking for the Derethi, they're going to win.

That was... unexpected, to say the least. Thank you, random Jindo Warrior. Much appreciated. Edit: let me clarify: the attack was not unexpected. I figured that would happen. No, what was unexpected was the save.

I'll admit that your level of apparent certainty makes me doubt, but there's this little voice in the back of my mind saying "Drake is definitely a competent enough player to use these certain statements intentionally to get you to back off because he knows most villagers would think that an eliminator wouldn't do this. Don't fall for it." And....my gut and my head are telling me to trust that voice, even if my heart is saying "but what if Drake is telling the truth?!" And it's funny because even if I want to listen to my heart, I know I'd feel far more the fool if I backed off and ended up being right about you than if I don't back off and end up being wrong. And while I don't think I'll change my mind, I am fairly torn about this decision. So thanks. >>

That's not at all what I said, but thank you for twisting my words. What I said was that you've been quiet and not doing much, which is different from how you usually play. Do I think it's an elim tell? No, because you've never done it in the past as an elim. But I think here, you're an elim with not much time, which is why you only contribute to the thread and give passable village defenses when you're accused. I don't expect people to forget AG3 if they played it, but at least get your comparisons right if you're going to call up that game. The Wounded Gazelle in AG3 happened at game start, and was, as is the point of any WGG, to get me somewhat trusted by the village right from the get-go. Here though, I'm village read by most players. A WGG on me is at best useless and at worst counter-productive. Also Pyro, this is an easy about-face for Drake to call up regardless of his alignment. He could be telling the truth. He could just as easily be lying because what else can he say? The fact that he's not contesting the priest means that he knows the priest scanned him correctly. Literally the only thing he can do is explain how the scan would show up as Jeskeri and why he wouldn't have told Len he had a pendant. I mean, if you have a pendant but you don't want to use it on the player because you don't believe the story, you could just....I don't know....say that? Crazy, I know. Honesty in SE? It's truly a novel idea. Drake didn't have much in the way of options once Len outed him, and delaying will only cost us the life of another villager tonight (most likely me). He's the best lead we have and I do not believe his story.

Why would someone claim that? If they are a village priest, that's basically begging for the elims to off them just like they did Aman. However, this person is the person scanned by Aman cycle 1, before Aman went into Elantris and was subsequently murdered. This person also claims to have scanned Lopen and I as Arelish non converts (which is true, at least for me). They have also claimed to Lopen. Oh, and I'll back Len up. That's exactly why I was stalling. I mean, I was also rethinking, but I had a lead and I wanted to follow it through before saying much more to the thread. Joe. Drake . I started getting a bad read on Drake last cycle and mentioned it to Lopen, who then accused Drake. His defense doesn't sway me, and he's been fairly ambivalent and quiet unless called out, which is not really how he generally plays. Additionally, I rather strongly dislike his repeated references to AG3 and a WGG, when it should be obvious that this is a very different situation (if you'd like me to explain that further, I would be happy to). Strikes me more as an eliminator subtly trying to get villagers paranoid about a strongly read villager than an actual villager paranoid about another villager.

@Dalinar Kholin Joe has made me rethink my theory about the priest claimant and why I thought I had been attacked. I'm much more hesitant about lynching him to check the priest when I am not convinced he's evil now and if Joe's village, the priest is definitely village. I thought I had been attacked because of specific information I had shared with the priest and I was going to share that information with the thread, but if the priest isn't Jeskeri, this is information that really shouldn't be public knowledge right now. Or, preferably, until the game ends. What I can say is that, yes, I was in contact with the Jindo who protected me. I got paranoid about the priest and Joe last night and started searching for pendants to throw at one of them to see if my paranoia was accurate, but when that search was unsuccessful, I requested protection from the Jindo and they thankfully got on in time to deliver. When the attack went through, I grew more certain in my paranoia, but now I'm thinking it may have just been coincidence. Wouldn't be the first coincidence to happen this game. Hence the silence. I'm currently rethinking.