Tariniel

This is actually one of my favorite parts of the whole book... Not sure how I missed this lol Anyway, great information @The One Who Connects! The post has been updated. Thanks for the help!

Stupid autocorrect

Yah, should've noticed that. Still, those phrases are interesting. Wonder what they mean..

Just bought the last copy Amazon had of the Altered Perceptions anthology! Can't wait to read these chapters!

The Kelek thing I actually came up with as i wrote this post. It's a little farfetched, but can we imply from Kelek's Breath and Kelek's Tongue that he may be an ex-God King (and thereby have no tongue)?

So... The Heralds. Lots of interesting things going on here, and I just wanted to make a thread compiling all the information in one place, as well as adding some theories here and there. One thing I find interesting is that Brandon seems to take extra care to not confirm the appearances of any of the Heralds. I believe that even the so-called confirmed Heralds, namely Nalan and Shalash, have actually not been explicitly stated to be who we think they are. With all of the discussion centering around Taln description, Brandon may just have pulled a beautiful distraction from the fact that all the other Heralds are in the same boat as our Mad Talenel. Nevertheless, looking for them throughout the book is quite a bit of fun, and so here it is: The Heralds, and Where to Find Them. (Any information that can be added would be great. I'm probably missing quite a bit...) P.S.: I've included the phrases/curses used in the Heralds' names as I believe they conceal more information than we're giving them credit for. They are obviously each used in specific situations, but they may even be hints towards aspects of the heralds themselves. I believe there's a WoB somewhere that says the Heralds are not necessarily all from Roshar, which can lead to some interesting theories... Jezrien (Jezerezeh/Prime Kadasix/Kadasix of Kings): Order: Windrunners Physical Description: Regal; Wears blue and white; Young, looking barely into his thirtieth year; Short black beard, neatly trimmed. Quotes: "Praise Yaezir, Herald of Kings. May he lead in wisdom. If he ever stops drooling." (This is the line that implies that the beggar at the feast might actually be Jezrien. More on that below. It also draws a comparison to the "Kadasix of Kings" title. 'Kadasix' seems to be the word for 'Herald' in Azir, as proven in a statement by Nalan below.) Phrases: There don't seem to be any curses in Jezrien's name. The Azir have the "Praise Yaezir," but that's pretty much it. I wonder if that means something... Theories: There's been a theory that Kaladin's predecessor as head of the Cobalt Guard, Niter, is actually Jezrien in disguise. This is mainly due to the fact that Niter wears the Kholin blue and white, and is described as "tan-faced," with a "black beard, cut short," an extremely similar description to Jezrien's in the prelude. Nale (Nalan/Nin): (Herald of Justice) Order: Skybreakers Physical Description: Dark skin; has a pale crescent birthmark on his cheek; wears a black uniform with a double row of silver buttons down the coat's front, a stiff silver collar poking up from a shirt underneath; thick gloves with collars extending halfway back around his forearms; has a dead, lifeless stare. Quotes: "She glanced down the hallway. She could swear he was glowing faintly, and he was certainly running too quickly. Darkness was awesome too." (If he really is using Stormlight, he may be the Herald who we know took back his Blade. Then again, it may just be one of Nalan's little gadgets...) “The Kadasixes have spoken,” said one of the scions. “The Heralds?” Darkness said. “They have done no such thing. You are mistaken.” (This seems to me to be further proof that 'Darkness' is a Herald (as if it was needed).) Phrases: Nalan's Hand (Used when acknowledging a decision regarding justice) Theories: He is one of the most 'confirmed' Heralds, and is believed to be Darkness, one of the Azish ambassadors at Gavilar's feast, and the one who gives Nightblood to Szeth in the WoR Epilogue. Chana (Chanaranach/Chanarach): Order: Dustbringers (Releasers) Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: "The fastest man e’er known to live. The surest feet e’er known to roam. In time long past, in times I’ve known, he raced the Herald Chan-a-rach." (The fact that Fleet's speed is validated through its comparison to Chana makes sense, seeing as she also has access to the surge of Abrasion which, as Lift has demonstrated, can definitely make one quite fast.) Phrases: Chana knows, Chana help (Used when referring to something that concerns family, more specifically motherhood.) Theories: Vedel (Vedeledev): (Herald of Healing) Order: Edgedancers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Vedeledev's Golden Keys (This is an interesting one. I haven't come up with anything for this one just yet, but there's obviously a story behind this.) Theories: Pali (Pailiah/Paliah): Order: Truthwatchers Physical Description: Unknown (Unless the Palanaeum theory is true, in which case we know she's old...) Quotes: Phrases: Pailiah knew Theories: It is confirmed that the Palanaeum was named after her, but there is a theory that the "berobed female ardent" Shallan sees is actually the Herald Pailiah in disguise. (More below.) Ash (Shalash): (Herald of Beauty) Order: Lightweavers Physical Description: Extremely beautiful; Dark skin; Long, beautiful black hair; "Eyes like a Shin, but tall and lean, like an Alethi"; Hair worn free, reaches down to waist; wears sleek and tight trousers; light violet eyes; wears a thin-bladed sword Quotes: "The mistress has good ears. Strangely good ears." - (WoK pg. 707) "Perhaps I should get myself a Shardblade." (Indicates that not only is the "thin-bladed sword" not a Shardblade, but she likely doesn't have one at all.) "A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal." (This fits with her being Jezrien's daughter (confirmed here), and is also the most solid evidence that the Mistress is Shalash.) “I’m worried about Ash...She's getting worse.” (WoR Prologue - A Herald talking about Shalash's condition to Nalan. Likely referring to her recent destructive streak.) Phrases: Ash's Eyes (Used when referring to something that concerns beauty) Theories: She's destroying pieces of art that she appears in. (This is actually already confirmed.) The reasons for this could be an entire thread all on its own, although I particularly like Argent's theory that the Heralds are rebounding off of their divine attributes. Creativity and Honesty seem to be the exact opposite of breaking in to places and vandalizing art. there is also the quote in the WoR Prologue that mentions how "Ash is getting worse." Cases of destroyed art include a missing Shalash statue in the WoK Prologue (pg. 23), the Baxil Interlude (WoK pg. 707), and Lift noticing a scratched out face in a portrait of the Heralds (WoR pg. 690). Battar (Battah): Order: Elsecallers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Battah send that girl some sense... Theories: Kalak (Kelek): Order: Willshapers Physical Description: Unknown Quotes: Phrases: Kelek's Breath, Kelek's Tongue, Kelek knows (It's been postulated for a while that Kelek's Breath may be a hint towards his having come from Nalthis. Something I just thought of, however, is that Kelek's Tongue could also refer to the removal of the God Kings' tongues... Could it be that Kelek has no tongue?) Theories: There is a wounded bridgeman whom Kaladin helps that may turn out to be the Herald Kalak. He reacts slightly differently than the other bridgemen Kaladin cares for, but this is very much just a theory. (More below.) Alternatively, some have theorized that he is the man Nalan is talking to in the WoR Prologue. This seems to have a little more basis to support it. Taln (Talenelat/Talenel): (Herald of War/Stonesinew) Order: Stonewards Physical Description: Dark brown skin and eyes; back beard Quotes: “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” —Dated Palaheses, 1173, unknown seconds pre-death. Subject: a wealthy lighteyes. Sample collected secondhand.” "...The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia." Phrases: Talat's Hand, Constellation named Taln's Scar Theories: I have a whole other thread on this. Ishar (Ishi): (Herald of Luck) Order: Bondsmiths Physical Description: Not much. He might have a long beard though, and is probably the scholar-figure of the Heralds. Quotes: Phrases: Ishar's Soul Theories: Is he the beggar mentioned below? The beard does seem to match Ishar's appearance in the Heraldic Icons that appear above certain chapters... ??? (Theorized Heralds): One thing to keep in mind is that Brandon has obviously seeded in certain red herrings with 'Heraldic' descriptions. Regardless, here are some of the more suspicious ones of the bunch: WoK pg. 23 - "A man with a long grey and black beard slumped in the doorway, smiling foolishly--though whether from wine or a weak mind, Szeth could not tell. "Have you seen me?" the man asked with slurred speech. He laughed, then began to speak in gibberish, reaching for the wineskin." (There are arguments for this being either Jezrien or Ishar. He is almost certainly a Herald, however, due to his comment of "Have you seen me?" when there are a line of Herald statues across the hall.) WoK pg. 40 - "The soldier on the other side of Cenn nodded. He was a lanky, red-haired Veden, with a darker tan skin than the Alethi. Why was he fighting in an Alethi army?" WoK pg. 502 - "It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servant... Lit that way--with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves--it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks." (Theorized to be Pali. The reason for this seems to be because we have a WoB saying that the Palanaeum, where Shallan is at the time, was named after her.) WoK pg. 745-746 - "He had dark brown skin and brown eyes, his thick black hair pulled back into a long, braided tail... He didn't have even a hint of an accent. Kaladin had expected him to be Azish because of the dark skin." (This is tentatively theorized to be Kalak, more through process of elimination than anything else.)

I actually started reading online, which, being a writer, was an invaluable example of Brandon's progression. However, I am not a fan of reading online. There is something about holding a physical book in my hands that is just much more real. I don't know, call me old school This led to me reading just enough to get invested in the story, after which I purchased my own hardcover copy. His ploy definitely worked on me, as I am sure it worked on many others, regardless of their individual reasons. After reading it twice now, going back and looking at those early drafts is even more interesting. It is incredible how much this book has progressed to reach the point it is at now. It's actually currently one of my favorite books!

I've just finished another reread of Warbreaker, and (as usual) it left me with a couple of questions I hadn't noticed before. Do we know how exactly Lifeless are broken? It seems that it is easier for the God King because of his sheer amount of Investiture... Why? I doubt they would use an Awakener of the Eighth Heightening every time they want to break a Lifeless' command phrase. Also, Lightsong mentioned somewhere that it involves torture, to which Blushweaver noted the fact that Lifeless don't feel pain... I'm confused. (I have seen it theorized that it involves the command Vasher used to make Nanrovah's daughter forget, but how would the logistics work?) Why is grey considered the absence of color? We know the God King can pull color even from a grey object (making it bone white), but why is grey considered a lack of color in the first place? Why does his blood become translucent? Shouldn't it become grey?

I'm a little pressed for time at the moment, but I'll try to get in my quick two cents. Some of the things I agree with are that the dialogue did feel a little forced sometimes, but I had the most trouble with Clara's understated reaction to him literally listing out her problems. I feel like that should be emphasized a little more. Also, I find it strange that Clara didn't connect the dots regarding Dragon. Most of the information we have--that leads us to the conclusion that he is some sort of magical immortal being--is solely from the things he said. Therefore, she has practically the exact same information we have, and jumps to much more far-fetched conclusions. It makes her seem a little slow if she doesn't at least entertain the possibility and dismiss it as fancy... Lastly, is it weird that I though the story was about a homosexual male for the first half? Not sure if you ever specified her gender in the beginning, she kept referring to the guy at home as a 'partner,' and Dragon is a guy... That might just be my overtired mind, however Overall, great story and a great read. Very different from your usual, but breaking our norms and pushing our boundaries is something we should all do if we hope to improve. I especially liked the pacing of it, as I flew through it in my limited amount of time, and didn't even feel the pages rolling by. Thanks!

I am writing one of my first science fiction stories, and have benefited greatly from brainstorming groups before. I would be awesome if we started a thread where we just throw around ideas for advancements that could be found in a futuristic world. It's incredible how starting a discussion about something sparks ideas and opens roads that you had never noticed before. Recently, I've been playing around with the idea of weapons that target the nervous system. This technology could be expanded in thousands of different ways, but I'm focusing more on pain enhancement aspect. Think about it, if we had guns that activated pain nerves, we could quickly incapacitate people, without doing any real physical harm. This would be a great help to the police and really any other enforcement agency. It could also be used in a couple of negative ways... What do you guys think?

I am writing one of my first science fiction stories, and have benefited greatly from brainstorming groups before. I would be awesome if we started a thread where we just throw around ideas for advancements that could be found in a futuristic world. It's incredible how starting a discussion about something sparks ideas and opens roads that you had never noticed before. Recently, I've been playing around with the idea of weapons that target the nervous system. This technology could be expanded in thousands of different ways, but I'm focusing more on pain enhancement aspect. Think about it, if we had guns that activated pain nerves, we could quickly incapacitate people, without doing any real physical harm. This would be a great help to the police and really any other enforcement agency. It could also be used in a couple of negative ways... What do you guys think?

Well, you obviously know what you are talking about, @TKWade. Seems like most of these were style choices. We're all working on our own voices and styles, a pursuit that is likely a lifelong one. Welcome to the journey Ah, I see. That definitely needs a little clarification, but I am cringing a little reading through some of my feedback. I do get a little cynical in those sometimes You definitely got it across to me. I was just trying to take a little more of a reader's perspective, from whose view I think that would have bothered me. As a writer, however, I am really intrigued by this world. How long have you been working on it? Great reasoning. I really do like the vagueness, as the story-important fact is really Osha taking over him. I'm sure you will find a way to make this a little clearer in a new draft. (Which I would love to read, by the way.) That's what writing groups are for To quote some more of @EthanBassett's wisdom, we're doing this because we care. Getting invested in the story is a bonus side effect I'll let her give you the long version, seeing as she knows a lot more about this than I do, but this seems to be a common problem in stories. From what I understand, female characters are often killed off for no other reason that to further the plot for the (often male) protagonist. I do it all the time, being a male myself, but apparently even females in our society have this problem sometimes. It's just something to be aware of. Just to be sure, I myself love when people make long posts critiquing my work, though I'm sure not everyone enjoys or has time to read page-long posts. If you want me to be more concise in future critiques just ask and I will try to shorten things up a bit.

This is so true. Just wanted to reemphasize something I should have included in my post

Is that a Kelsier reference I see

First and foremost, welcome! I know how difficult it is to put your work out for others to analyze, but you seem to already be excited to submit again, despite the not so positive criticisms. That's a great attitude! I promise you'll be happy you did when you see the physical improvement it can have on your writing. Now, on to my comments: This seems to be the unpopular opinion, but I don't actually think your description bothered me that much. Granted, I was reading this to critique it, and so I likely read deeper and further than I might have otherwise. However, I quite liked seeing a new style in the descriptive prose you chose to use. I've heard Brandon talk about prose as being a window, either left clear or decorated with stained glass. He prefers to keep his prose nearly translucent, using it merely as a window into the story itself. Others (Patrick Rothfuss, for example) are much more flowery in their descriptions and overall prose, a fact which doesn't at all deter them from hitting the bestseller list. (A caveat to this is that you should be doing this on purpose. If you're being over-descriptive without meaning to that may not be such a good thing. If this is what you consciously want to write, however, go ahead. Write what you love! There's certainly an audience out there for it.) With that being said, I do think you could lay off the adverbs a little bit. Good prose is often about learning what to leave out and what to sprinkle across the narrative. Dumping a whole load of something good is not necessarily the way to go. I also felt a little bit of a disconnect when you described this horrific scene in a beautiful way. I'm not sure if this was intentional, but, if not, it did deter from me caring at all about the destructive events taking place. Also, your learning curve is way steep. I felt very confused at all the proper nouns being used for the beasts, magic users, etc. That could be just me, but I hope to get a little more learning done next chapter before I get hit by another brick wall of names which I have no idea the significance of. (Just a quick example: You could just as easily have described the look of the Source Aspectors (i.e. "white robes in stark contrast to their black chainmail protectors") without directly saying what they were. I'm sure we will find out more about them when the time comes. Now my view is limited, so if you wanted this here for some reason, keep it. Sometimes, however, it's okay to trust that the reader will eventually figure this out.) Line by Line: Warning: I'm not sure why, but I tend to get quite cynical in LbL's. You have been warned. The reuse of the word 'ash' at the beginning of so many sentences is quite annoying. Maybe change the structures slightly? "Ulganian ran for safety clutching their children tightly, their children clutching them back for comfort and protection." Wait, so that's not the reason why the parents are also clutching their children? "Hopelessness drove the Ulganian residents from the beautiful City of Alluren." Oh, it was the hopelessness. I was under the impression that it was because their whole storming city was on fire and under attack by a hostile army! "Lyzell, a tall Ulganian with thick golden-brown hair and a coarse red beard" This peaked my interest, even before reading about the enhanced ears. Really smooth transition into his POV, by the way. The paragraph describing Lyzell seemed a bit forced. They are in a frantic dash for escape, after all. Why is he thinking about all this stuff? 'termites boring out a tree" I didn't mention this before, but you have some great comparisons in here. "They would travel lightly so they could move quickly." Here is where you may have to drop a couple of the descriptions. Doesn't seem like the time to be admiring the "railing gilded beautifully by a masterful carpenter" and the "long kitchen filled with the finest kitchenware." "Lyzell quickly turned to action" Really strange phrasing here... "We need to keep moving… we are running out of time." You used a lot of "..." in this dialogue sequence, most of which I don't think are necessary. They actually end up slowing things down, when you want them to be snappy and quick. "...or had you forgotten?" I would take this out. Seems unnecessary, and slows things down. "Alandria grabbed his head firmly between her strong hands and forced his head up." “You didn’t come all this way just to fail did you?” These lines make Lyzell seem completely incompetent. Alandria seems to be the one running the show, but she keeps deferring to him at times, for no apparent reason. Is this intentional? "as a blood started running out of the corner of her mouth." I had to reread this a couple times to figure out what happened. I'm still a little confused. Did the Drouvlan hit her with the ax? I'm not quite sure about this, but would blood actually run from the mouth immediately? Also, why doesn't he mention the huge gash in her back? And why does she slip to the ground slowly? Shouldn't she be thrown forward from the blow? I feel this part could use a little more explanation. One thing that's been bothering me throughout. If they were going to deliver the letter after leaving the city, why did he have to wait until the last moment to write it in his house? Couldn't he have just written it once they'd escaped? Okay, overall, this has a lot of potential. I'm hooked already, although I would like to see Lyzell seem a little more competent. For now, I'm not really worried about what he'll do while he's being controlled. He seems pretty useless at most things without his wife... Oh, and kaisa is probably going to give you the fridging talk. I'll leave that to her Thanks for letting me read! Hope to be seeing a lot more submissions from you in the future!

I believe Hoid, sorry Wit, is exactly what Brandon wants him to be. For now, that could mean being a sort of mysterious character to the Comere-unaware, and a blatant easter egg to those who aren't, but that is how he needs to be seen at the moment. I doubt Brandon, whose view is much more expansive than ours, would let us down without Wit's very own conclusion and character arc. However, he is currently not that important when it comes down to it. Yes, he has influenced a couple of the main characters, but the majority of the story could still be told without him in it.

I know this could just be the obvious explanation, but could it be that Szeth just didn't notice them? He seems more experienced than Kaladin in these matters, which could mean that he takes some things a little more for granted. The guy is also going through a lot, which would definitely distract from some things which he may consider minor...

I'm a sucker for witty characters, proven by the fact that some of my favorite characters in the Stormlight Archive are Wit and Shallan. And so, of course, there was a struggle between Nightblood and Lightsong. In the end Lightsong won, simply because I love his character idea, and he had a great part in the end of the book. From a writer's perspective, Lightsong's a great character to learn how to reproduce witty remarks from, while Nightblood has a slightly more childish humor. (I realized later that Nightblood isn't 'witty,' per say. Still love him though!) Taking all that into account, my vote goes to Lightsong the Bold! And, yes, I overthought this.

He could just be trolling us, but this seems to imply that Vivenna being dead is not a likely option... As for Jewels being on Vivenna's side, the fact that Clod came to save her was the most interesting proof to me, until I realized that that was all part of Denth's plan. He needed Vivenna to continue undermining the Hallandren war efforts, and so her dying would not suit him either. He likely sent Clod to save her, knowing that she was getting overrun by the Lifeless guards.

Lol! I've had this book for over a year now and never noticed that. Nice catch!

In Chapter 38 of Warbreaker, Lightsong mentions the ability to break a Lifeless in order to give it new Commands: My question is: Do we know the specifics of this process? Seems like something that could be of note...

I know this is likely just him being more accustomed to an informal version of his name, while Shallan is used to the formal Vorin title, but maybe there is something here...

This is interesting...

Yup, typo. Thanks for the paragraph, by the way. I really need to go back and scout out those WoR epigraphs...

Dustbringers! I'm just really excited to see the cultural dynamics of this order. I find it hilarious how they prefer to be called Releasers because of "Dustbringer's" similarity to Voidbringer. Even more funny is the fact that they will likely have red eyes, and their property is fire, further emphasizing this comparison. I am really interested in the Stonewards as well, @Xaklys, if only to help clear up the whole Taln background. As for the "one Order that did not betray their spren during the Recreance," the Skywards seem to be the most likely candidates, to me. They are all about sticking to duty no matter what. I'm curious as to where it says there was one order that didn't betray their oaths, though. I wasn't aware of that.