Satsuoni

11. [ooc]Bleh [/ooc]

Possibly because Ruin and Preservation made all the life on Scadrial, so changing weather patterns is not out of the question.

Well, actually by considering it while I write, I remember that Shallan once thought about the normal Soulcasters which were often limited to one (?) Essence. Not simple Essences, but a way of transformation too, it seems. (Only make bread, only make domes, etc) They are cognitive aspects of some pretty stupid stuff, like rain, wind or emotion. But as everything has a cognitive aspect, they must have one. Only that it is limited to a rough awareness of 'I am wind' or 'I am pain'. Well, the cognitive aspect of the glass seemed quite talkative and smart enough, when in Shadesmar, so I am of a mind that a) everything has a cognitive aspect b ) not everything is properly connected to its cognitive aspect. So in case of Syl, the Nahel bond used the connection of a human to bypass the faulty connection of a spren, restoring sentience. In return, spren gives increased spiritual connection that allows Surgebinding (like you have mentioned above, joining in the spiritual aspect). The spren IMO wants a physical aspect back. But what was its physical aspect originally, to want it back? If the Honor was like Ati or Leras, his physical aspect was mist or Stormlight-like substance. Why would it want a gem? (Even if gems were like metals to Ruin, why would it want a fixed/restrained form)? OK, for now. I'll edit in some more ideas later. Edit1: Since spren seem to be feeding/ materializing from stormlight, it may be argued that Stormlight IS their physical form, that is captured in stones in the same way the usual stormlight is, with different spren correlating to different wavelengths of Stormlight, demanding different cuts and gems for different kinds of Spren. Then, to capture a spren, you'd need it to touch/enter the stone, which for many kinds of spren is easy enough. Also: For Blade and Plate, I think that Honor gave some tiny part of himself to create them. Well, if we accept that other spren are bits and pieces of Honor after splintering, "giving a part of himself" will hold true for other fabrials as well (reformulation of my theory above) Edit2: We know that plates are almost alive, that they grow from Stormlight, that they can become invisible (or disappear into Spiritual Realm, not sure what happens to that helmet in the vision). Maybe they are a kind of spren (rather than fabrial), just a very specific kind, given by Honor himself for the specific reason of protecting Radiants.

Seynir "Well then, let us try opening one of them. Say, that one" I point at Z25 "By the way, do any of them happen to smell?"

OK I still think that soulcaster fabrial is, in fact a setting, just powered by gemstones. Not sure about modern one. One thing though -the setting definitely channels the power (see painknife, and half-shard shields), so it is not completely inert. And uncut stones don't attract spren. So they are not fabrials. I'll come to your distcintion between old and modern fabrials, Satsuoni Makes sense. That is why the gems are cut, after all - to maximize the internal reflections, increasing sparkle Only that it is captured definitively, perhaps due the additional cognitive aspect somehow. I kind of disagree with this idea. I don't think all spren have much of cognitive aspect. I am starting to agree that spren are splinters, some created during the Honor's life (like Returned in the case of Endowment, the Honorspren, etc), some later when he died and the shard's body was splintered (most of the common spren). I think each spren carries part of his aspect, but not all have or carry the cognitive aspect, or to be more precise, cognitive connection (not much of it anyways). I oppose your idea of old fabrials Concerning Soulcasters, see aboce. Shardplate and Shardblades are Invested objects, IMO. It has been confirmed for Shardblades: WOB: As Shardplate is also said to be given by the Almighty I say those are Invested objects as well. In my terminology, they are invested by a Primary Investiture (directly from Shard to object), as in opposition to filled metalminds for example which are invested by the human (Secondary Investiture). Well, then you know that they are Invested, but you don't know if the normal fabrials are, likewise, Invested. Maybe Honor gave a splinter of himself and bound it in the metal of the armor and blades (Primary, IYT), but as humans, we can only bind in gemstones (Secondary, IYT), so we can't recreate them. Maybe Syl can inhabit Kaladins spear and make it into a Shardspear (IYT -in your terms) I really don't believe that Investiture-spren would get caught. Syl obviously would be intelligent enough to not get trapped. As to the others, I suppose they would be sentient enough too not get attracted as well. After all they are probably Splinters. Unless gems work like black holes. You know, it is weird - many people wear jewelry in Roshar - cut stones, with stormlight inside for the glow, so why don't any such cuts attract spren? I imagine wearing a bracer of horrible agony is both unpleasant and noticeable... Windrunner: I don't think that the setting plays any role in keeping the spren held. Shallan's fabrial had no spren held within, as it had no permanent gemstone, and it ceased to function when damaged so it couldn't have been a loss of spren that is to blame. I think you and I view fabrials a little different. The way I see it, Shallan's Soulcaster not having a spren isn't because it is older and better. In my opinion it's because since it requires a person to function, there is no need for spren to provide a cognitive aspect to control the power or to provide a connection to Honor presumably required to utilize Stormlight. A person has both those things in far greater capacity then a spren. That's why spren fabrials are also so constrained, able to do one specific thing, a spren's cognitive aspect can only handle one task at a time. The question is then, what is a soulcaster, and how it is different from a fixed soulcaster? If a human can use Stormlight without the thing (I am going to assume that is not so, for now), why use it? For that matter, why, then, wouldn't the servant who used it before be unable to use it again? (Well, he may have been unwilling. But why? "I am the only one who can use the thing, and your souls are mine" would have served him better, whatever his motives). So there is something in the setting that directs the power properly. As I have mentioned before, maybe not a spen, but a kind of circuitry that connects to the human mind and directs the power. Also, can you imagine a Soother and/or Rioter with an emotion fabrial? The result would be frighteningly devastating. BTW, always wondered -can a Soother soothe himself? Not sure if it was mentioned or not. Also, you still don't know whose emotions you read. Also, a weird idea: a) you need power of a shard to use Allomancy. metals are just a gateway. stormlight may be the power of the shard. Result: Allomancer on Roshar may need to use infused gems in addition to eating metals. Unlikely result : by swallowing them whole

You know, I have always kinda thought that the form of the cities has to do with the vibrations caused by Highstorms That is, either the highstorms has created the cities from rock naturally due to the local resonance frequencies, or the cities were designed to minimize such damage by neutralizing vibrations. But you may be right, and the purpose may be spren/stormlight management.

Weren't the Symbolspren kind of sentient originally? The one that talks is actually the character I found easiest to identify with Also, does/did anyone transcribe this hangout so it could be entered into database?

Hmm.. If you consider the wording of the Navani notes, you may notice that she uses a slightly different terminology. TO wit, she calls a single gem with a trapped spren a fabrial, that is used in machines. Thus, the mood bracelet is a machine that uses 10 fabrials, each of them only responsible for a single emotion. Also, most of fabrials (machines?) that we see in the book are single or half-gem fabrials (OK, I'll still use fabrials for single-gem machines, nya), and the only one that we see based on (not powered by, I'll come to that later) several is the above mood bracelet, that is simply 10 separate fabrials in the same setting. So assuming that the arrangement defines function seems wrong to me (although may be the case for more complex fabrials). IMO: Cut AND gem together determine the interference patterns, as well as the spren attracted and the resulting function. Simply cutting a gem is not sufficient to make a fabrial, the spren must be captured inside somehow. Possibility: the setting (wire around the gemstone) helps binding the spren inside. Break the setting and the spren may escape, leaving just a stone (a broken fabrial). The wires and connections also channel the power of fabrial (like the case of painknife, only the blades cause crippling pain, etc. An aside - I want a painsword in the hand of every lighteye soldier ). Next is just my subtheory: There are two kinds of fabrial - the old fabrials and the new fabrials. The old fabrials include Shardplate , soulcasters and possibly shardblades. These are powered by stormlight-infused gems, but not controlled by such gems. Their spren are either in the bindings /settings, transferred from the stones, or they do not have spren, and have instead a glyph circuits that channel the power from Stormlight, emulating spren. So if you cut the circuitry, either the spren escapes, or it is like trying to fix a broken microchip by gluing in together - won't work. (And yes, I see that Shardblade is very different, although it still has the gemstone, since it does not seem to be powered by stormlight at all. Maybe it already has it sealed inside without leakage, and feeds on the souls of those it killed ) And the new fabrials are the ones created by Navani - they are based on capturing spren in the gemstones, and then charging the gem. The gems cannot be swapped with another gems in this case, since the spren will be lost.

You may also remember to consult with thesource Assuming that Navani knows what she wrote about, Tells us that you can attract spren to possibly, different gems with a differing cut, varying the resulting effect. You can trap flamespren in the emerald, possibly ruby, and maybe create an opposite effect (cooling/pain reduction) with the same spren. So, both cut and gem are important, it seems. The signs on the KR armor were glyphs I think they were using to fine-tune the stormlight (fabrial) usage, but not sure how (Also, I think they were the same or similar glyphs that are currently used for male signing, and that is why they are used as ward sometimes).

Um, it is chat.freenode.net for IRC clients, webchat is only for browser client (I think?).

Seynir "Great. Now we have more doors to choose from. Well, I guess, the first order of business would be to check them for traps, then check what lies beyond the one not trapped. I wonder if the symmetry in the layout holds for traps as well." Just in case, I look around again :(Spot: 13) And move to V22 [ooc]And so, in a few years, the whole room was searched to my satisfaction, and nothing was found but a few pieces of garbage. [/ooc]

Seynir "Well, if you say so. Watch them carefully." "Turjan, you have the torch, and the chalk is probably better left where it is for now, so we can see them, So you lead the search, and we'll help, as much as our ability allows." [ooc]Can we take 20 on the searches like that?[/ooc]

Seynir I wait until the smell lessens, then remove the rag from my face, fold it carefully and tuck it into a sleeve pocket. "Might as well check out the room for hidden doors before we go on." I glance back at the orcs huddles in the corner "A pity they are not inclined to talk. What do you think we should do about them? Should we neutralize them somehow, so that they won't we tempted to attack us from behind?"

Seynir "Thank you for the warning," I say, my words somewhat muffled by the rag over my mouth, "I should have thought of it myself. Just.. close the door then, since you are standing right by it."

[ooc]I didn't make it 4 [/ooc] Seynir "Anything interesting in there, such as another door? I cannot see well from here. If not, I suggest we close this door to get rid of the stench, and try another one."

[ooc]Constitution modifier? Does that mean that I can't hold my breath even for 10 seconds, since mine is 0? What does that mean for people with negative mods? Anyway, I seem to be just beyond the 3 squares. My next action is inspired by some book from suvudu cage match . I assume Umieri or Sael had a torch. [/ooc] Seynir I hold my breath as the door opens, but the stench is still palpable. I cut off part of my robe's sleeve, dip part of it into acetic acid, fold it so that the acid layer would be covered from both sides, and tie the cloth over my mouth and nose. I take a few shallow breaths at first to acclimate myself to the vinegar stench, then look into the room: 5, but can't distinguish anything beyond the pile of corpses.

Everybody makes mistakes And few typos are actually funny, and our adventure already had two. Anyhow, we are in position, do it is time for someone ( with more hit points) to get that door :\

Seynir "Striax, stop making faces at your arrow, please, and get ready."

damnation yOU CalcCuLuS! Wait, when does your school year end, anyways? It is start of the year in Japan, still mid-second semester in Russia.

Poke, poke. Anybody still alive out there?

All cat inquisitors have human attribute spikes for sentience This is theoretical, of course, but I do believe that addition of such spikes will make them more humanoid in appearance, especially the addition of human physical attributes. Oh, by the way, found this in the Interview database: So, the spirit would look more human, the cat will look more human, but not quite. Also, the Allomantic/ Hemalirgic/ Feruchemy spike will just change the part of your spirit that gives the power, not the part that is responsible for your body, so the change will be less physical. (I believe Brandon himself said that the human attribute spikes are more deforming, but I am not sure).

Seynir "I agree with Umieri, but you can ask them if you like, Sael. I think we should start with untrapped door, but be careful, and hold your breath when you open it. I think somebody proficient in the melee should open the door, in case of ambush." I position myself at G5, and change orientation so I would be able to see inside the door when it is opened.

Actually, Nighblood is fully sapient, just different. His command is his (its?) moral core, amongst other things. Also, I am not sure what evil is (everything that actes against my interests?), and see morals as an expression of self-preservation drilled into me during my first years of development. Am I semisapient (by your definition)? Second : how does the sword destroy walls and people by the black smoke? It could destroy mouth in the same way. It is also free to interpret the command given by wielder in any way it wants, so "obey wielder" is even worse than "destroy evil", being a superset of the second one (you can command it to destroy evil, without explaining what evil is. I will act as Nightblood. Or you can command it "kill enemy soldiers", and it will kill every soldier in vicinity, possibly taking in a wielder, since every soldier is an enemy of some other soldier. And it will not stop until the command is superseded, or it runs out of Breaths)

Seynir I address the party : "Smells like rot in there, and it should be fairly strong inside if I can feel it through the door. Not sure what is rotting though. Do you think we shall check what is inside, or try the trapped door? "