joesleepsalot

I’m gonna agree with this... I think the incident with Odium and Dalinar is getting way over analyzed. The immediate context of the chapter in question and overwhelming impression the text gives is that Dalinar is uniting the gloryspren and reknitting Honor. I don’t think Brandon would hide a micro-analytical type of theory for us in the climactic sentence of a 1,300 page book. The “slap you in the face” impression of honor reign restored is Odium fleeing the battle. Confirmed just afterwards when we find out that honor’s remnants+stormfather soul+Dalinar’s will=whatever we now have. Also there’s Taln’s one and only moment of utter lucidity: while Dalinar is ascending. and his lucidity flees after Dalinar’s “ascension”. Haven’t seen anyone connect that dot yet unless I missed it somewhere.

Edit: never mind this theory, I did some digging and figured out “intent” I’m reading through part 2 and am about 99% sure I caught a new Shard Hint. That being said, I’m an extremely busy person and I don’t have time to live on this website and research every topic ad nauseum (like I did with all things Tolkien when I was in college) before I post. So if it’s already been posted my apologies. the part where Odium appears to Dalinar at the end of part 2... in both the NOOK and Hardcover version, Odium capitalizes the word “Intent”. Here’s the quote: “Ah, all right then,” Odium said. He smiled, a twinkle in his eyes. “Oh, don’t fret so. These things must be done properly. I will go if you release me, but only if you do it by Intent.” Pg 550 hardcover, 595 in NOOK. We know that Odium s bound somehow, that Honor and him had an agreement. There are rules Odium must follow with regards to his current restricted status. My best guess is that Intent is one of the shards, and Honor/Odium made a binding agreement about something (which stipulates the conditions of Odium’s imprisonment) in the name of Intent. Brandon doesn’t randomly capitalize words, especially in the context of us having our first interaction with Odium. Having a typo in such a high visibility scene would be a no-no. He’s also not one to make accidents like that. In OB, “Intent” appears 32x. Only once is it capitalized. It appears 28 times in TWOK, capitalized once only as the first word to a sentence: “actions are not evil. Intent is evil, and Jasnah intent had been to stop men from harming others.” (573, nook, relevance probably is zero) Arcanum Unbounded: pg 14 in nook, discussing the investiture rules on Sel. “In addition, the rules of perception and intent are greatly magnified on Sel...” intent is mentioned again as a vital portion of the investiture on Sel, pg42 in nook. I did a quick search on my nook for all appearances on “intent” in literally every cosmere book. Every form of investiture in the cosmere relies on the user’s intent as a critical piece. And Odium just capitalized it. Perhaps someone whos lucky enough to ask Brandon the next question could ask him about this theory lol. If I’m in left field and there’s already some other expanded theory/word on Intent, I’m all ears.

Agree 100%....I’d say that pretty much sums up a lot of us readers out here. To quote Ollivander, “I think we can expect great things out of you, Mr. Potter.” Maybe we will get to meet the shard in Oathbringer. We’ve met what’s left of Honor (stormfather), I’m fairly confident/hopeful that we will meet Odium, why not Cultivation? Definitely been a sideline character/benchwarmer so far.

Ah Roger that. As an alternative, I see she had fingerless gloves.... doesn't Shallan describe Lyn or someone else as wearing fingerless gloves? Or potentially her as Radiant/Veil?

You know who it is?

I'm super curious about what this pic is

He doesn't need to be a big player, but we definitely get the vibe that he will be involved in the big picture. Take hoid for instance... his scenes clearly convey big picture/cosmere without making the reader feel like they're clueless about something. I think Sanderson has the skill to replicate that in keslsier.... especially since he's already done it in hoid. Id be willing to bet that Kelsier and Kaladin will meet. They're essentially a "type" of each other: -both names start with K -both are very quick learners and superbly skilled with their investiture -both are extremely good fighters -both were abused and mistreated to the point of madness -both gave up on life -both came back stronger than ever -both are concerned about the greater good -both have honor (character trait not shard) -both hold the welfare of their crews/troops above their own -both are flawed role models (just human) -neither was romantically involved during the events of the story (minus Kelsier's past) -kelsier treats Vin the way Kaladin treats new recruits -kelsier is now "mobile"and knows how to see other places -kelsier knows about the shards -kelsier talks to harmony, who's fully aware of Odium. Logical to assume kelsier knows what's going on. Plus kelsier and hoid have met, and kelsier's inquisitive nature won't rest until he's at the center of events. My two cents: Sanderson doesn't waste words or time. We are waaaaaay too invested in Kelsier and his arc for him to just go away. Same with Kaladin. I think the third mistborn trilogy will see some crossover.

Perhaps I'm reading way too far into this, but the art in previous books reflected something that actually happens in the books. And the art depicts someone from either side of the conflict. With that being the case, i think we will see these four Heralds in full swing. Ishar is probably a traitor.... Saruman's clone. Plus he looks ARROGANT as ever in his pic. I think shallash and jezrein will be the good guys, they both appear to be on the shattered plains. And jezrein has his blade back. Vedeledev will probably be a bad guy. Sorry to hijack, I went to look at what you were saying about the belt then thought of that.

Perhaps that is REALLY what "unite them" means when Dalinar hears it. The assumption is that it applies to nations but perhaps it applies to the Heralds. Also, I think we may see some excess amounts of involvement from other parts of the cosmere. The Heralds and all that won't be in a vacuum.... Jasnah knows something big, and we also have Hoid etc who are going to be very invested in what happens on Roashar (as well as others, especially from Scadrial). It's no accident that thestart to the entire series focused on the Heralds..... and that we've been given glimpses of them throughout the books so far. It's not like they're gonna sit out the fight, especially since the fight's end state is the eradication of humanity. Mad or not, they know fully well that they'll die if they run. I predict Jasnah, Hoid, or Kelsier will somehow get involved and collude with Dalinar and/or the Heralds. The dirty laundry of their betrayal must be addressed, but the situation at hand will have to be addressed as well. The nature of the desolation will require all parties to move on. And Jasnah will know something about the bigger picture.... shards of adonalsium being splintered, who Odium is, how to defeat him, etc. we all know a lot about the cosmere as readers, however the characters on Roshar don't know squat. If they were somehow brought "into the know" on the bigger picture, then they'd have a clear direction. Otherwise, they're driven by the wind and at the mercy of circumstance. If this is truly the last desolation, then either they lose to Odium or they beat him. There's no middle ground. The Heralds know that, and they'll get involved for better or for worse.

I dunno, it's definitely a toss-up... Vasher self admittedly isn't an expert at melee fighting.... and he beat Denth with a cheap shot. But then again, we see him in Roshar as exceeding melee expectations (if we're going off his opinion of his skills) and being able to best pretty much anyone so far. I definitely agree with you though, he does seem to be hiding out.

Unless Kaladin becomes Odium's champion and Adolin becomes the champion of Honor...???

I put the post up before becoming aware of the WoB... so yeah it's pretty much obsolete now lol. I'm a pretty busy dude, I don't get as much time as I'd like to peruse all the data. My rataionale was that the stormfather hinted at a recreance-level betrayal from his wife. And Dalinar's buddy (the ardent) hinted at Dalinar's retribution (presumably towards his wife) being utterly ruthless. Having been divorced, the only thing I can think of that'd send someone into such a rage and/or qualify for the stormfathers betrayal analogy is infidelity. That seems to me to be a no brainer. Plus I haven't seen Renarin match much of Dalinar in any capacity. After all, Dalinar's only been a changed individual for about 10% of his life if we go by years. Minus the WoB, I'd be hard pressed to argue for Renarin being his relation.... especially with the potential for infidelity via his wife. Ultimately just wheel-spinning, Renarin is obviously a legitimate son. But I'm sticking to my guns on infidelity

Agreed on that.... plus he's sparred with Kaladin a few times and won. As dumbledore says, I'd like to revise my statement lol. It'll either be Kaladin or that guy. But I'm not sure Kaladin would lose. His fights against the crusty sword master were not executed while using Stormlight in a flagrant manner. Plus Kaladin learns INCREDIBLY fast, and has surpassed every master he's had at their own craft. of course mr grump wasn't using his equivalent form of power either, But id still bet that in a fight to the death Kaladin would win. Especially on Roshar.

Lol just a game of me guessing theories! What do you think of the other options I had? I've seen you referenced in like every forum on this website

Ah blast, I didn't know that. I'll find the section I had in mind.... it's in the OB chapters. On my phone so I can't CNTRL+F, but It's where (I think Shallan) someone noted how "improbable/unbelievable it is that Renarin could be cut from the same cloth as Dalinar" or something along those lines

Didn't see this anywhere, I apologize if it's a repeat. I'm fairly certain that Renarin isn't Dalinar's son. The hints throughout the series have been overwhelming, and recently in OB there was a line about how unbelievable it was that they are related. Combine that with the fact that something like the recreance happened between Dalinar and Evi. Obviously she cheated on him and he raised Renarin out of pity and/or honor. Lol. My two cents.

Everyone seems to be working off the presupposition that Odium's champion is someone who's currently alive on Roshar and is in their 20s/30s. Dalinar saw Odium's champ in a vision from several centuries prior to the present day. Either that vision was was 100% prophetic, OR the champion already exists. Option 1: The champion with 9 shadows is an immortal counterpart to Jezrien, with 9 supporting evil heralds. Option 2: The champion/shadow combination is literally the modern heralds, who've gone off the deep end and now serve Odium. Potential flaws to this theory are a.) Nale's repentance and b.) Taln had no part in the betrayal. Option 3: (most plausible in my opinion). The nine shadows are the nine other monarchs of Roshar. Sanderson is a Mormon, and the Mormons also use the Bible.... a lot of his theology finds its way into the cosmere books via religious dialogue. Part of the end-times views held by Mormons and other Christians in general is that nations are symbolized in visions and/or dreams. We see this specifically in the book of Daniel and Revelation (Bible, not the Book of Mormon). Also, the Bible talks about the last days being full of massive deception and massive quantities of death. With this is mind, I think this theory best captures Sanderson's intent with the nine shadows. a.) the deception: we as readers are shocked to see what Kaladin is seeing. We expected red eyes and mayhem. Obviously, there's literally a global deception. Either this time the Desolation is different, or we were lied to about the previous ones. Kaladin is already starting to see the glaringly obvious factual mismatches just by being around the Parshmen. The other monarchs are clearly seeing it as well. B.) the nations: aren't there nine nations/kingdoms on Roshar besides Alethkar? They're unanimously against alethkar. The only one who isn't is Mr. T., and we all know he's not on the side of Dalinar and Alethkar. This desolation will be so dangerous because humanity will have joined the forces of Odium against only 1 nation, before being destroyed by their voidbringer allies. Option 4: (I don't want this one to be true but I'm convinced it is the one we will have to deal with) kaladin. anyone else, to include non-villainous candidates, is too easy and predictable. Kaladin has legitimate reasons to hate. He's been built up, and literally everyone thinks he's a permanent good guy. Plus let's not forget that from his point of view (and the reader's) the "voidbringers" aren't evil. They're just liberated people. I recall reading somewhere either on this website or in the books that they are regular creatures, but that they are specifically susceptible to the influence of Odium. It might be a WoB. We know that the voidspren is particularly interested in him, and we know that kaladin is being watched by Odium (I think from WoK). Literally everyone knows who Kaladin is, and everyone knows how BA he is. I don't think anyone could match him in a fight in the entire cosmere.... people say Denth, but Denth got owned. Anyone who could take him from any other series has met an untimely end. If you were Odium, and you couldn't pick a herald, which one human in the cosmere would you seek to corrupt and make your champion? Seems pretty common sense to me option 5: dalinar. I believe we'd had enough hints, especially in OB, that Renarin isn't his son by blood. I believe his wife's betrayal was infidelity. Now that he remembers things, it'll start to turn him to the dark side just like Anakin. As far as combating the champion, I've identified some options: wildcard 1: the 10 heralds. And when they will come forth to humanity, identify themselves, own up to what they've done, and lend a hand Wildcard 2: the storm father. Any questions that anyone has could by answered by him. Sanderson knows this so he doesn't utilize him often. If we actually had a scene where Dalinar grilled him for like 30 minutes, then the series would have no more secrets. Questions about the heralds, the nightwatcher, unsplintering Honor, etc. Can the stormfather communicate with Harmony? You get the gyst. Wildcard 3: jasnah. And our favorite survivor of Hathsin. Wildcard 4: hoid. Let's not forget his talk with Dalinar. Who's now bonded to the big Spren. I think when they cross paths again, dalinars Spren will have some words to say/input. I'm curious as to hoid's responses. This series HAS to become cosmere-focused pretty soon, I think it'll start happening in this book.

So his fight with ambition landed him on roshar? Perhaps ambitions death throes? I wonder if pieces of ambition splintered outwards along odiums trajectory and also landed on roshar?? Or other planets? Why's he stuck on roshar?

Are you secretly Brandon Sanderson on a ghost profile?? Got that vibe lol.

I searched for this but didn't find much, so if this has been addressed (which I'm sure it has) I apologize. I've seen a few hints that "we know a splintered shard can be unsplintered". even without going into all the details, I get the vibe that splintered shards aren't destined to stay that way....anyone else pick up the vibe that adonalsium will be restored? If not, what's the end state to the cosmere novels? What's hoid's goal? A big leap... and I have a life and family so I'm not gonna type 46 hours of theories to sell an idea lol but I am curious. Any WOB on the matter? seems that splintering leaves a shard primarily in the cognitive and spiritual realms, hardly anything left in physical. We know that certain characters have expressed curiousoty about "going into the beyond" (spiritual), but none have returned. Second aspect of the post then, does anyone think that certain individuals will succeed in traveling to the spiritual realm to revive shards, gang up on and defeat odium, the rebuild adonalsium?

I dunno, I disagree with this being a boring plot point..... and it would still be unique.... my thought process on that: Preservation wasn't shattered or splintered ---- we've never seen a shard of adonalsium unsplinter and I think this would be an outstanding story. Sure, we all know what happened in HoA but the dude you're referring to was an unwilling hero. Compare that to Kaladin; in my personal opinion I think Kaladin will become the most lethal investiture-using human in the cosmere. He's honor-driven and his skill at fighting is second to none. He beat Szeth with minimal practice at surgebinding, I'm pretty sure with the 4th ideal spoken Kaladin could kill anyone we've met (minus shard holders or someone like hoid who's probably got power from all 16 shards)... to include Denth, Vasher, anyone in Stormlight minus the pre-betrayal Heralds, kelsier, anyone in Elantris... the only exception I see is Vin. If fight scenes in the cosmere were a movie, and the dramatic effects and motives of those fight scenes were a food, the Kaladin's scenes are like gladiator/braveheart/saving private Ryan with a $500 meal. Nothing else in the cosmere is as moving as the when Kaladin is saving someone on an epic scale. (My opinion lol). Kaladin acting as honors champion against odium is extremely fitting. What better person to ram a blade into odium than him? (For any Tolkien nerds, google search "Dagor Dagorath".... future tense Armageddon equivalent where Turin Turambar rams his blade through morgoths heart at the end of the world....fitting since morgoth personally singled him out with a curse).... that's how I picture odium falling.... at the hands of kaladin, with help from all the behind the scenes characters side note..... the English breakdown can be read either way.... odium appoints champion or honor appoints champion. Sentence structure is ambiguous as either way is correct.... WOB? Besides, who would odium appoint as a champion? And who then would fight that champion? The 10 "insane heralds"? Questions questions!!

Lol. Obviously it's this guy ^ ive actually thought about this for a while, if I was an author I'd definitely have an account on these websites. Sorta common sense....

Literally laughing out loud

The fact that Sadeas is dead does Dalinar huge favors; regardless of the means. Sadeas is the one in Dalinar's way, he's the main antagonist who's ruined Dalinar's reputation and nearly the sole source for the lack of unity in Alethkar. How many are dead because of him? How's that "unity" goal, or lack thereof, due to Sadeas? Because of him, al the other nations have heard of Dalinar in a negative "he's crazy" context. I think if we look at Sadeas' death through that lens, then Adolin's "consequences" are a lot easier to determine. As for Adolin's actions: Froma militaristic point of view, specifically the Rules of Engagement, the right to self defense is never denied. Ever. Also, hostile intent IS enough to use force against someone. Brandon seems to use the US Army's command structure and Rank-to-Unit equivalencies, so I'm assuming that he at least knows the ROE and all that. With that said: EVERYONE knows Sadeas is a Judas. Huge traitor. Kaladin as witness (whether he's there or not at the time of any trial, that's speculative anyways regardless of the excerpt about his trip home) to his admission of treachery on his bridge at the end of WoK. Everyone knows.... plus Sadeas deserved to die simply due to his treatment of bridgemen. PLUS Sadeas, right before he is killed, tells Adolin's that he intends to redouble his efforts. I'd have killed the dude too; his "efforts" equate to murders of the Kholin's household. To the armchair generals out there and sofa judges, would you, as Adolin, not attack that dude? Lol. If you say "no", I call BS. Your dad, brother, fiancée, friends, and yourself are sure to get poisoned, stabbed or worse. Self defense, hostile intent. Honestly, who cares that Adolin killed him, that's the equivalent to the execution of Bin Laden by the Seal. Seriously, lol no one cared, the murdering b****** deserved it. I predict Adolin will become a Stormward.... sure he's a "murderer", but he did bring justice---- just rogue justice. We know some spren are attracted to that. Remember his 4 way duel? "And STORMS he was good". Even Kaladin was impressed. Adolin may not be a main character, but he's been invested in way too much by Brandon to just disappear or become the next Kaladin (trodden over And beat down). And let's not forget Shallan---- who got away with murdering her own mom. She's a KR, a professional con artist and liar, with a bonded Spren. Oh and she loves Adolin. Anyone here think she'll give two cents that he killed the biggest D bag in Alethkar? Anyone think that she'll just let him get tossed aside? Oh plus Kaladin likes him.... and Jasnah is his cousin....the only ones I see trying to bring down Adolin are weaklings who don't matter anyways. He will play an important role in the biggest war of their time.... id say that with Stormlight, he and Kaladin would be the best warriors in the cosmere. My two cents.

Lol, I'm not a massive cosmere nerd--- I'm definitely one though for middle earth, I can read dwarf runes, read the silmarillion probably 15 times, the trilogy probably more, have every movie memorized, have read every article on the encyclopedia of arda.... lol, the people on this site are at that level. Every time I think I've connected a dot, I search for it and it's already been done. I did however tell Ted Nasmith in an email to read Brandon's Cosmere books. (Nasmith is one of "the big three" artists who made the middle earth paintings prior to the movies coming out; Jackson didn't use him but in my opinion he has the best work. He's also responsible for the game of thrones set designs) He responded to my email, perhaps he will hit up Brandon and we will have some awesome visuals: http://www.tednasmith.com/