Kasimir

Fourth, assuming (and I'm guessing it's probably a warranted assumption) that he's suppressing (as always) the one that makes him Returned.Has anyone yet discussed the mechanics of how Zahel uses Stormlight to replace the Breath his body must consume at the end of each week? (In that I'm wondering if he has to breathe in Stormlight from spheres, or take walks in highstorms, or...) I bet he doesn't do that last though--wouldn't be long before everyone started to talk about that 'storming crazy ardent swordmaster who takes walks in highstorms." Agreed with the point on Hoid--Hoid's been playing Pokemon with all the Cosmere magic systems. I don't think he needs to trade with Vasher to obtain breath.

Possibly, a Stoneward? They're supposed to be the ones reflecting the qualities of their Herald the most. But it is crazy--I don't see it as being that plausible even if it's cool.

...this will teach me not to be on 17s at 4:30am. I'm sorry I missed it :/

Here's the two points on which I suspect we disagree:1. The extent to which the KR were warriors. I suspect that with Alethkar being the kingdom focused on war, the part of the KR that would stick out to/for them is their prowess in combat. The KRs Dalinar does see in his visions tend to be from the combat-oriented orders, namely the Windrunners and the Stonewards. But at least at first glance through the order and Surge lists, it's not immediately obvious that we'll have many warriors. The obvious few seem to be: Stonewards, Windrunners, Skybreakers, Dustbringers. WoR and what Darkness says seems to imply we have fighting Edgedancers, but off-hand, they sound more like rogue-builds than warriors. Excluding Taln and assuming that Nalan and Szeth can be considered representative Skybreakers, we've only seen two of the four combat orders. And that's out of ten KR orders, for perspective. However, it's most likely the case that in Desolations, many KRs had to fight, regardless of order. In addition, we know from Malchin that some Lightweavers turned out to be badass warriors. So I'm going to say that I would disagree with closing the gate on Renarin and Shallan, regardless. It may be that Stormlight grants them advantages regular fighters don't. But I will also agree that they would be wasted as fighters. It's clear they're better off doing other things. 2. I disagree that, as you put it, "we need someone with skill with a shardblade to join our crew." That's not clearly the case at all. Why? Because the KRs are renowned warriors? The KRs existed a long time ago, and in a place like Alethkar, it's not surprising that after Vorinism considering the KRs to be charlatans, the only thing that would remain associated with the KRs is fighting prowess. But I suspect the reason you've given is a meta-reason: and in the same way, appealing to meta0reasons, I don't see why the narrative needs a KR swordmaster now. Eventually? Yes. That Adolin's battle prowess will come in useful, I don't doubt. I do question the evident reasons that meta-reasons suggest there's some function he'll be fulfilling with those skills only if he were a KR. In the same way, WoR is only the second book. If it were the fifth, I might understand why we would be looking to our pool of existing characters for more KRs. As it stands, because it is only the second book, I don't see why Sanderson can't introduce new characters, as is likely to be the case. So I also disagree that 'It must be Adolin, because who else can it be?' That is is unlikely for a blademaster apart from Adolin to pop up is, I think, a point I will concede. That we've seen everyone who is to come so far, is something I definitely disagree with. In fact, there's a WoB (though it might have changed), that Taln and another Herald will be getting books in the final five. If we are to assume Taln is the representative of the Stonewards, then it appears we'll be getting a Herald Dustbringer in the final books. Terrible, check.

What do you think? (Actually: Jezrien's Honorblade, now that he's the last character handling it. I spelled it with a 'u', because I forgot and unconsciously used British spelling. And I'm referring to the fact that taking the Honorblade grants access to Stormlight healing, even if it's delayed...)

Very thorough and nicely done I'll probably engage more with it when I have the time, but I'll just add a point or two: 2. How the Desolation threatens their existence is an interesting question. Just as interesting as how their bonding with humans might help stave it off. Given Darkness/Nalan's assertions that Surgebinding is dangerous and returns Desolations, it might appear we have a case of conflicting information here. 4. I'm not sure about Wyndle, but as far as I can recall, he doesn't seem to mention the death thing. Syl does acknowledge that Kaladin could/(had?) killed her, but her attitude seems to be more of, "You could kill me but I don't care." She ignores the Stormfather when he says (of Kaladin) "HE WILL KILL YOU" and her response to "HE BETRAYED HIS OATHS" is "I don't care." So some of our onscreen spren, with the exception of Glys (not enough info), Ym's spren (not enough info), Wyndle and Ivory (not enough info) directly acknowledge they will likely/most likely end up dying in the process. I'm wondering if this has any link to the Recreance/"the secret that broke the KRs." 5. Good catch w.r.t. the possible different spren factions existing, and it does look that way. We don't seem to see anything from the highspren as of yet, though we know Jasnah managed to get information from them regarding the Desolations. 6. With regard to the timing of Shallan's and Jasnah's bonds, I'm guessing that puts both of them in the vicinity of 1167. Possibly a bit earlier for Shallan, depending on when she started--we know her mother tried to kill her in about 1167 and so she stopped Surgebinding thereafter. Good point about what Nalan might have been doing with regard to the other spren. I think we can add to the network effect: there's probably also a tendency for members of the same family to influence each other. Basically, I'd suggest that if Adolin/Renarin are attractive to spren, it's not just the spren trying to perhaps cluster/attempt the members of the same family, but because Dalinar is actively influencing members of his family to practise virtues/behave in ways that would attract spren trying to form a Nahel bond.

Had a feeling it would come to this... In general though, regarding what Arin said--that's really why I think it would be just more interesting (although I admit that says nothing about the truth of a theory) to run with the idea that Nalan knows things we don't. My idea is that there's nothing inherent in the Oathpact that breaking it would make all the Heralds break--it's just a combination of the fact they've repeatedly subjected themselves to a neverending cycle of millenia of torture, war, and then finally decided to walk off--against their general inclinations (I'm assuming they're all generally Honourable people, capital H-honour intended here to indicate there must be something about them that had them agree to take up the burden and make the pact with Honour) and knowingly leaving a comrade, Taln, to suffer what they would not. That has to leave some serious psychological effects and damage/baggage for any person to carry, and my suspicion is that's what we're seeing at work now. So I don't think they're automatically crazy--Nalan clearly has an agenda, and he's pursuing it. He might be doing so obsessively and with such focus that he excludes a lot of relevant factors (think Mr T.) but I don't think we should rule him out yet. (My current personal theory is that this increased focus on order is his touchstone--it's his personal reaction to that baggage.)

Rust, I'm torn between hoping Nalan gets a book or Kalak gets a book, now that you've brought him up. I'm a bit more cautious about Jezrien: I wouldn't mind seeing him, but I'm not straightforwardly certain I want to see a Jezrien book. A viewpoint might be nice though.

Singapore. Right across the Causeway, mate

Thanks, take my upvote Given that, while there's some sort of vagueness in what sort of 'sleeping' Sanderson means, I'm now leaning a bit towards the latter possibility, and...I just made a successful saving throw against mental scarring with my +2 bonus from surviving the Syl thread. Still though, I think it's telling that in Jewels' case, she had an emotional connection to Clod before he became Lifeless. To me, that suggests that the idea of a flourishing industry using Lifeless as sex slaves isn't likely to work out except in these extreme cases.

You're welcome. And my guess is that the grate is probably made of the same material used in the lock--it resists the cut of a Shardblade. While we can probably surmise that material is distinct from that used to create Shardplate, the interesting question might be whether it is the same material used in the creation of half-shards.

I took a peek at the list. Does anyone know what a Scadrian Waffle Cook is, or did I miss something? :S

At the risk of derailment: huh, strange, so am I. Only noticed because Bao Gong shows are popular enough to make repeat comebacks on tv sooner or later, saw one and for a moment, thought, "Wait a sec--isn't that Nalan?"

Ah, my bad, thanks! Don't suppose you might happen to remember which of the annotations?

That's fair enough, and I admit I'm more on the 'Adolin will become a KR' side of the fence. I'm just not so sure that theories where Adolin doesn't become a KR don't have him facing the consequences for having murdered Sadeas. I think either way you look at it, in a world where the Skybreakers are returning, whether he does or doesn't become an incipient Surgebinder would put his head on the chopping block. In essence, while there have been some theories that are more interesting than others (see: Adolin will be exiled and then discover his powers), I think that having Sadeas' murder on his hands will, one way or another, ensure that his character arc won't turn out patently boring. I agree with your point that we need more firepower in the KRs. With regard to that, Adolin would be a good fit. However, I'm not sure how much that speaks for it, given that the orders revealed so far haven't really been the combat-oriented ones, with the exception of the Windrunners and the very tentative glimpse we've gotten into the Skybreakers.

Don't forget the chull! I don't think we have evidence for or against with regard to Jewels and Clod.

In the thread discussing Adolin's status as a KR candidate, EMTrevor posted a snippet that I found rather interesting: For some reason, that sounded familiar to me, and so I flipped through WoR until I found what had set it off for me: A short while later, Kaladin asks what happened to the sphere Shallan was using for light. She tells him it's gone, that she must have dropped it when she'd grabbed him. There's an indication that there's something that doesn't match up here, Kaladin says, "I didn't--" but we don't find out what he would've said. That he didn't see it?Later, though, after the Stormfather's appearance, this is what we note: My read is that Shallan drew in Stormlight, which is why the sphere she 'dropped' went dun. My question is: is it just an effect of the Stormlight in general? The Surges Shallan has access to are Illumination and Transformation, and I don't see how either would help her pull Kaladin up. I also find the sudden italicisation of 'surge' to be significant and suggestive. It's also possible, however, that the sphere had been used up earlier when she was using Illumination on the chasmfiend.I suspect that although Sanderson didn't italicise 'surge' in the Adolin case, the answers for Shallan might reflect on Adolin as well. It doesn't seem accidental that the wording in both cases reflects each other, with regard to what Adolin did and what a known Radiant did. (Also, my first topic! Woohoo! )

Please tell me how it would be boring. Adolin would inherit a highseat in the middle of a chaotic situation. While he's been increasingly prepared for the role, it's not clear he's ready for it and he's still got quite some growing up to do. He's also still got to deal with the issues of his place, given everyone around him is a KR and he isn't. Not to mention all indications from his father are, being a KR is awesome. And then Renarin: all along, he's been the brother leading the way. Suddenly, Renarin is ahead of him. What is he to make of that? And imagine: he might be inheriting the highseat in the middle of Alethkar being a mess, being ill-suited for Alethi politics (he loses his temper and lets himself be goaded into a four-on-one match) and among accusations of possible murder. I'd say it'd be majorly interesting--as the development of a character who isn't a KR. Sanderson so far has shown a constant interest in the way 'underpowered' characters can overcome an overpowered one, and I'd think most of us would know better than to consider a non-KR development arc to be 'boring' off the bat.

My guess is that Syl flying around on her own simply wouldn't be as effective as Kaladin wielding her as a spear. He's the one with insanely good spear skills, and it seems that if Syl was in weapon form, she wouldn't be able to figure where she was going.Yes, letting go of a sprenblade keeps it in weapon form. We see this with Shallan lending Patternblade to Kaladin to fight the chasmfiend. Even when Kaladin drops Pattern, he remains as the Patternblade, while Shallan is elsewhere using Illumination to trick the chasmfiend.

Sprenade: Pull the pin, count to three, no more, no less, not five, three--wait for the spren to swarm, and run. MaiPon sculpture: each carefully-crafted masterpiece comes with a stamp of authenticity! Kaladin's Sword of Honour: Touch it and be healed!

It does sound like everyone and their chull is about to become a KR in our theories I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Moash becoming a KR in the very, very, very distant future, but within the next three books, probably not. I think it's possible we see an attempt from Moash to redeem himself, yes. Especially since his reaction to Graves was to realise he'd "been played for one of the ten fools." It would be hard for him to become a KR though. What seems to draw the spren is a match in impulse, and so far, all we've seen driving Moash is his desire for revenge. How he reacts to this is an open question, and it's possible he decides to help Bridge Four in the end when deployed by Mr T. and his diagramists, but for me, it looks like he's made the choice and he'll have to deal with that for quite a bit.

"But who is that, gliding beside you, with his head of lines? I hear the splash of water, see a man alone." -Darkeyed spearman, 2 seconds pre-death.

It's occurred to me--thanks to another thread--that perhaps a point in favour of the idea that Adolin will not become a KR is as follows: Eventually, the KR are going to probably need some sort of operational independence from the Alethi structures. I don't think this is going to be possible in the short-term, given they're facing so many problems at the end of WoR, but having the KR in positions of power is probably not going to go down well with Vorinism. If that's the case, Dalinar is eventually going to have to abdicate as Highprince--which would make the letter he'd drawn up in WoK rather prescient. And given the need for KR and Alethi separation of power, there would be only one eligible Kholin to take up the mantle of Highprince: Adolin. We'd still have to hash out exactly the repercussions of killing Sadeas will pan out, especially since Adolin left his sideknife in Sadeas. Would his sideknife be instantly recognisable, given his status? I suspect it might be personalised in some way. Dalinar might, for instance, recognise it. Not to mention Adolin would be missing a sideknife for a bit. But it seems to be an interesting possibility: while his father, his causal betrothed and his brother are all finding places as KRs, Adolin has to step up to take the Highprince seat. And in a sense, part of WoK and WoR seems to be about getting him to mature enough to see that big picture.

When your friends ask you what superpower you'd want and you say, "Surgebinding or Allomancy."