Kasimir

I'm all for discussing who to Fang openly (with the collective agreement that engaging in discussion about who should be Fanged doesn't necessarily immediately indicate the player is a regular villager), as I believe I mentioned earlier on Day Two. In fact, I think it's this sort of public discussion that, when combined with the information we're getting in the day cycles, can help us narrow down on suspicious people who might be DFs. Whether or not we discuss it publicly, there's a strong likelihood the DFs will attempt to influence the Fanging where possible anyway; it's basically adding an extra vote to someone, after all. IMO, making it public increases the chances that we'll be able to pick up on fishy things going on.

With regard to magic as currency, I was thinking of trading discrete, quantisable units of power around: things that might (potentially!) get around problems of counterfeiting in our world. And depending on whether or not this base magic can be considered the same across cultures and nations? You have global currency right there. For fixing electronics, I was thinking about it really as a way of simplifying the way people generally try to fix electronics now. Usually, when something doesn't work, you check the manual and troubleshoot and troubleshoot. If you're experienced (and lucky), you can narrow it (the problem) down and get it fixed fast. So I was thinking about being able to more quickly troubleshoot what's wrong with those things. In fact, perhaps not having to pry open sealed casing to fix something might also be useful. Or to handle fine, small parts. For cooking: no great shakes at it either :/ The direction of my thoughts concerned allowing people to push the limits of how creative you can be with cooking. Maybe instead of having to carefully squeeze icing into patterns, you can make finer, more intricate patterns. Moving patterns. Maybe people could literally put emotions into cooking. Would give a whole new dimension to people who've fallen ill drinking chicken soup that someone's made for them. Thinking in more broad/expansive terms (and set somewhere in the past), I would say magic that allowed people to lift a lot more than they could otherwise, to reinforce and strengthen materials, etc, would all be useful. Even something that could grant people a burst of speed must have been very useful in the days before walls were effective ways to stop horsemen from overrunning: magic creating early versions of traps that could kill horses, bursts of speed to take down horsemen...etc etc.

I'm almost tempted to suggest that that cup should become the standard we refer to as a mugsworth. So a mugsworth then becomes pegged to around three cups of tea

For no reason at all, Kaim faltered and shivered. For a moment, he'd thought he'd heard something. Something that sounded suspiciously like three nameless voices, crying out in horror before they were abruptly silenced. With shaky hands, he lit his pipe, and slowly started off on his way home again.

At this point in time, my vote is going to Bela. I agree that in the dogpile on Dirt that has emerged, Jain comes out looking pretty suspicious. At the same time, I'm not particularly thrilled with the (semi)-dogpile on Lam right as Bela was leading with the lynch votes. When that was pointed out (invoking Meta's Principle), votes immediately accumulated for Dirt. Suspicious individuals have emerged, but the pattern I'm seeing most is a sharp swing away from Bela. At the same time, I'm also not entirely convinced by Bela's explanation. It seems to me that eliding the distinction between a no-lynch on the first day and complete passivity, allowing the DFs and PF to rip us to shreds defends a strategy that perfectly furthers the expected goals of a DF. For those reason, there's precisely where my vote is going. Apparently, we're all bloody-minded today...

Funny you mention this, as my current frustration is trying to brew a decent matcha! I just can't get the froth to work properly, so I've resorted to cheating by frothing milk and throwing that in instead. The smoothie idea--I'll have to give that a shot! I'm sure I'll eventually learn to do it properly, but until then!

Jaelre: Fair enough. Being heavily based in Game 5, I grant that my argument requires certain assumptions about DF behaviour in order to model it. But here's the thing: I've laid out what I deem to be reasonable assumptions for a Team Evil player in most games. In this game, with a Viewer around, they're sitting on a ticking time bomb even more than in Game 5, where only actions could be detected. If you wish to contest my assumptions, give me a decent model of how Team Evil would then be playing. Don't just tell me without reason that they could be shaking up the boat. If we work with that, it's hard to figure what they're doing. As long as we assume they are reasonably competent, they won't play up just because they're "genre-savvy". Their moves still have to be rational/strategic for people in their position, shaped by the constraints of this game. All the same, I think we've said more than enough about this matter and we really have more important things to worry about, which was my real reason for trying to hit the WG point hard. (Also, I acknowledge I am not good at assessing motivations or gambits, so you could well be right.) I believe Douza (Twei? Sorry, how should I refer to you as a player?) has also made a decent point about Wisdom action appearing differently. Though, Douza: according to Gamma, the Great GM, all Whitecloak action will be in the write-up although we don't know who they detained or who they are. So at this point in time, I think we have to assume our Whitecloak is dead. You're right about Spirit and Water though. Aonar: I admit the lack of a double tap surprised me as well. My current theory about this is that the DF making the kill pulled it from someone else (Wilson, perhaps?) and hit Awes when he wasn't supposed to. (My suspicion--and I think you'll figure what I'm getting at--is that the decision was, perhaps, not to hit Awes that night.) This theory only requires one inexperienced DF--the one making the kill. It relies on Gamma's rule clarification, in the post in Day One (I think?) saying that the DFs have to assign someone to make the group kill and that person gets sole discretion over the group kill--whatever they send in is it. - Well, that's it from me. I have to head off to camp. I'll see if I can get in any further analysis of the activity here, particularly with regard to the current state of the votes, before placing one.

My problem with a Wounded Gazelle, more seriously speaking, is this: and this is just going to be me speaking from my recent (painful ) experience on Team Evil in Game 5 (as a Ghostblood.) First, you want to rack up the kills, crudely put. You want to disable the Dreamwalker, and take out roles critical to the village, like the Wisdom, killing roles like the Wolf-Brother--and the Channeller. I'm interested to see there's only one kill on the first night, but this is exactly what doesn't make sense to me. I think it's reasonable to assume Team Evil is decently competent. Just as much as we are. So, let me list down the reasons a Wounded Gazelle sacrifices far more than expected returns. 1. Our current reactions say it all. The immediate question that came up, courtesy of Joe was: "Is this a Wounded Gazelle gambit?" The fact was, it was chancy that we'd have accepted it at all as indication Awes could be trusted. (But, you might say, the fact that most of us are rejecting the gambit--mightn't that indicate it is an acceptable risk?) Fair enough. Let me go on. 2. I've already said you want to rack up the kills as a Team Evil player. For one, every night cycle you delay your kill is another cycle in which the village is free to set up circles of trust, to start checking for inconsistencies, to start using their roles strategically to verify and to hunt you down. Trust is a depreciating resource in this game if you're Evil. Sacrificing that to put yourself in an uncertain position with no guarantee you'd be given the trust you want? Uh... (Note as well Wilson's response: the last successful time this was deployed (Game 2, I believe), the person in question had three lives.) 3. What would be mitigating factors? Using one kill on an Evil player and the other on a villager. Have we seen this? No. There is only one night kill. I believe that tells us something too, but I'm not going to go into that right now. I brought up Game 5 several times. Please try not to hold it against me; it was my formative experience in learning how to play these games 4. Now, here's another potential mitigating factor: if whatever blocks the kill is a renewable resource. Except it isn't. As Grey has already pointed out, unless you're best friends with a Wisdom (I grant that the role isn't Village-only), doing a WG either wastes the only extra life of an Aiel-blooded, or a precious Channeller weave. Here's why this is important: as I said before, trust decays over time. By the end of the game, having that extra life, that extra weave to block a Villager counter-strike on you is very crucial. 5. Here is the last reason I believe it isn't a WG. As I've said, and will say again, Game 5 was my first game, and I was thrown into Team Evil. To some extent, my expectations on the tactics Team Evil (DFs here) will employ have been shaped by that game. Shaped as well by tactics that Awes has employed as an evil player. This will not be apodictic certainty, and people shift playstyles, but I did propose us trying a WG in that game. Awes was the person who shot me down and told me not to waste the kill. Make of that what you will. The short of it is, I think we finally do have confirmation of at least one player. I don't want to see us waste it, and I want us to get on with business proper. In particular, I want to see an explanation from lev about why he did what he did. I will agree with Newan that an aggressive attitude towards lynching from Day One doesn't necessarily make you evil. It could be a matter of playstyle. But I will also say that unless we're dealing with a very passive evil team here, Team Evil generally wants lynches to go through. And lynches that come late in the day, after we've had some information gleaned? I'd say that even if they don't immediately call for a lynching, they'd cry out for explanation. And I'm going to wait to hear what it is. P.S. I may or may not be trying to move discussion along because I have a camp and therefore limited/intermittent internet access tomorrow I will not be able to be as active in the discussion, therefore, and am trying to be amply helpful now. Edit: Colour Editor, why have you betrayed me? Edit 2: Reason isn't sufficient? Fine. Go scan him. For goodness' sake, this isn't much of a gambit if all it takes is for the Viewer to take a peek at him tonight. For whatever reason, Fain hasn't yet struck. Let's use this and take down some DFs. Fighting!

Ah, fair enough. Thanks for the clarification I've once read a book--the Vineart Trilogy--on mages who cast spells using wine. I've always wanted to build a magic system around tea. I've currently been thinking of things like making and drinking tea as the foundation for magic, particularly as I'm re-reading the history of tea at the moment Other things people could do with magic, just off the top of my head (not so sure if they're mundane or otherwise): use it as currency, use it in order to fix broken electronic devices (ha!), use it to make extremely fancy and intricate dishes when cooking. (I'll try to be more productive/creative later on )

Yes. Nothing convinces people that your life is perfectly, perfectly awesome as compared to having to take a line from The Critique of Pure Reason, or more appropriately, Kritik der reinen Vernunft to describe your life. After that, I went into an existential (ha!) crisis for the period of two hours, which was solved by a drink, and then I promptly redid it only to get a line explaning this equation used in population biology. I've just decided to stop it

Storm it, guys, this is so unfair. I suggest in Game 5 that Meta totally got himself hit in a Wounded Gazelle Gambit and no one believed me even though Plate was totally rechargable. (Ignore, for a while, the fact that I was actually evil that game.) Aiel-blooded don't recharge and this flies?Where is the justice in this game?

Someone had attempted to kill Waes. Kaim sucked on his pipe, thinking wistfully of the last time he'd managed to scrounge up some of that sweet Sharan leaf. Retirement, he thought, had its downsides as well, to be sure. He'd watched as Waes was treated and stayed only long enough to make sure the man was still alive before walking out into the bright morning light. Those patrols weren't going to walk themselves, and he thought he could see Leas in the distance. He shook his head, as if to clear it, and wondered if he should join the man. No, Kaim decided. He'd become rather fond of his morning smoke and some peace, and with the attempted murder of Waes and the Dragon's Fang appearing--of all things!--on the stable post, or so word had it, he wanted some time to himself. My read is that both messages are from Dreamwalkers. As I've never been in this style of game, I'd prefer to leave it to those who have to tell us if it's likely that both are Village Dreamwalkers. My personal suspicion is that we have one Village Dreamwalker, and one Darkfriend Dreamwalker. That Fain didn't convert anyone off the bat isn't particularly mysterious. I'd say that if Fain had converted on Day One, I'd have suspected he was someone in over his head. Remember: the rules say he has a limited number of conversions, scaled to player number. I'd be very astonished if he was throwing them around like free candy. But he could also have been blocked. Which might indicate Channeller action, or that he hit the Forsaken. I'm hoping it's not the latter, as it might not be good for us. I agree with Awes and Binnt about identifying all regular villagers. It could be good if done cleverly--granting the ability, for one, to coordinate Fangings. At the same time, I am very hesitant because I think such a gathering would be feeding time in the Serengeti for Fain. (In addition to inadvertently revealing role information.) I don't necessarily think this game will be controlled by power roles per se, and my personal perspective is: we're in this together as the village. I want to be mobilised in a way that best helps us get rid of the DFs and Fain and if that results in my death, so be it. So I have to admit, I'm a bit curious to know why the villagers would need a PM rather than a collective agreement in the thread "Whoever who can Fang, Fang X." That would be closer to the tactics we employed in QF2 to counter the 17s. Like a lynch discussion, I suspect arguing over who to Fang in the main thread (with the understanding that we may not actually be a regular villager) would give the Viewer and Thief-Tracker some idea of who best to target; who is suspicious, who has insisted on Fanging people who later turn out to be innocent, etc. And if it's all the same to everyone, I take it most of us don't generally like the idea of our souls--whether or not we may be regular villagers--being bait on a fishing line. Edit: Embarrassing typo. You never saw it >>.

Could I get a bit more clarification on what you're asking for? Are you asking for us to throw some ideas with regard to things that magic can let people do, or are you asking us to throw some ideas with regard to the mechanics/inspiration behind a magic system? I do like the idea of this thread. It's at the very least a fun exercise in an aspect of worldbuilding (which I admit I have a tendency to get caught up in >>.)

Most excellent! I've always wanted to try the former, and I've tried the latter and enjoyed it Nowadays though, I get a packet of lavender from the Chinese medical hall and homebrew Earl Grey with it.

By Four Red Fruits or Earl Grey, are you by any chance referring to Twinings?

You know, I'm quite sure "In Case of Emergency, Break Glass" was not meant to be read this way

OOC blue, Panda. Let's keep it in there Blood and bloody ashes, losing our Whitecloak like this...I admit, I'm relieved not to have lost our Dreamwalker or Wolf-Brother, but as far as things stand, that's still one storming mislynch. I'm sorry, Rengar. ...I'm definitely going to go back and re-read the posts by which his lynch was secured. I'm not very happy about lynches coming out of almost nowhere near the last part of the day.

I utterly forgot to ask this. Hey Gamma: what colour should a retracted Mayor vote be in? Just to track the two main contenders for Mayor at this point in time: Waes (3): Newan, Rishi, Nath Witless (5): Malai, Kaim, Joel, Leas, Jae. And--what a shocker! Witless charges up from behind to even the score with votes from Leas and Jae! Witless leading, 5-3! What will be the final result? Drell's Crossing, everyone! Stay tuned!

...given there's a war going on at the moment, isn't there already wrath coming down, etcetera etcetera? ...Must be a lot of that to go around. "I'll have lots of war, please! With a side order of wrath! Extra wrath! Peaceful wrath!"

Twim Cabalen--Creator shelter him--had not yet been laid into the ground when the arguments began. Calls for the election of a new Mayor warred with accusations and Kaim felt the beginning of a headache setting in. He nodded a quick thanks at Douza when the boy relayed Leas's message, but did not hide his sigh. The evenings had been cold and wet, recently, and he'd hoped for a warm pipe by the fire. Still, the patrols were essential, with the Trollocs coming down on them and for all that he wasn't a soldier, Leas was, and Kaim supposed the veteran knew what he was doing. Light help him, he'd taken to wearing his short sword and sword-breaker again. He cleaned them daily, and took care of the worn weapons, for all he'd thought he'd never need them again after his retirement, but it seemed the Pattern had other plans. He'd practised with them, feeling years of experience come back to him after the first few clumsy attempts. Far better than a sword. No help for it, then. "I'll cast my vote for Witless as Mayor," he said, raising his voice so he could be heard. For all he was the town fool, Witless was clever--there were depths to that man, and one way or another, Kaim thought he might just weather the gathering storm that was about to hit Drell's Crossing. I'm divided about whether we should have a Mayor the first day or not. At the same time, while I have some other thoughts on the matter (after all, we should be able to get some use out of that role...), I also like Wilson's suggestion that we regularly rotate Mayors in order to deal with the threat of voting in a DF or corruption (sounds like politics, anyone?) So on one hand, my vote serves the purpose of tying the votes for Mayor (defeasibly). It also puts forward a vote for someone who I believe is a skilled player, and who would therefore be an asset in that position. I do try to hedge my bets. I admit this probably doesn't matter much if the Mayor is being rotated each day, but at the same time, putting someone up for Mayor is going to turn a bit of attention on them, and I'd like to vote for someone who I think can take the heat. (And if she's a DF/PF, then if we vote her out tomorrow, we're limiting the damage she can do.)

This...is actually pretty inspired, I have to say

I don't know, I honestly did love the game. It's quite a switch from your usual Elimination style standard, with Villagers v. Spiked. My only regrets are: 1. I missed most of it , 2. This is really going to ruin me for future games as I've had almost no experience in a standard Villagers v. Spiked game!

It wasn't brutal, Kaim thought, surveying the scene at the town hall, studying the remains as the volunteers cleared them out. It was as calculated as anything he'd ever seen: something meant to send a message. Funny, he found himself thinking, how after years of working as a thief-taker, even something like this couldn't entirely shock or horrify him any longer. He sighed and remembered why he'd decided that thief-taking wasn't for him. Thieves were one thing. Murderers, another. He'd liked the Mayor. Twim Cabalen had been welcoming enough to a former thief-taker looking for somewhere quiet to retire to, to have the small study he'd always planned on having as a young boy. He'd even voted for Cabalen, and now Cabalen was dead. "May the last embrace of the Mother welcome you home," he said, quietly, as he watched them carry away what was left of Mayor Twim Cabalen. "And may you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand." GM, this is probably small beans, but may I confirm that a tie will not result in a Mayor being elected? Edit: Extra question: does the thief-taker's day action replace their vote? Yet a third question: could I get some confirmation of when all votes must be in? Thank you!

I just wanted to add that I agreed with Awes and Maili. It's not particularly constructive, but yes, I would also be willing to sit out a game to give a new player a chance. That itself is not an issue; although I would say it's not a bad idea to make the information about upcoming games a bit more accessible in some way (i.e. maybe not in a few separate threads.)

I'm embarrassed to note I hadn't really noticed.