Pathfinder

So it is looking like everything that is loved about the original two games they are doing again in the third, and more of it. More guns, with more unique characteristics for each gun (running guns, guns that when crit will bounce to other targets, guns that change elements, guns that have unlimited ammo, guns with attachments). More actions skills (three per character). More planets and bigger maps. Finally gameplay is coming may 1st!

Rysn. I am holding out hope that her larkin grows into its greatshell version and looks like a huge dragon bug, that radiant Rysn rides into battle.

So although I am in complete agreement with @Tiberius Gracchus on a political marriage not being necessary between Jasnah and Kaladin, I could see the political aspect in other cases. Basically any darkeyes that becomes a radiant is now a light eyes that potentially can pass his or her lighteyeness down to their children. If the society still holds to lighteyes are nobility, then that means becoming a radiant automatically makes you nobility, and anyone you marry becomes nobility as well as your children. Now personally I think the fact that anyone can bond a radiant spren (as you said based on their merits and the spren) will mean that the whole lighteyes means nobility and dark eyes are lower will be upended. But prior to that, marrying a radiant I could see as being a political boon. Once enough dark eyes start bonding spren and realizing lighteyes ain't all holier than thou and the almighty is dead (which is the supposed divine right of light eyes to rule), I could see the whole system changing.

Just an interesting tidbit fresh off the presses: Stormlightning [PENDING REVIEW] Where is Hoid on the religious scale about the Beyond? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That's a RAFO.

So in response: 2. That is for fabrial soulcasters, not radiant. As per WoB (which I will edit this post and add in a moment), Jasnah faked the gemstone breaking because that is what Shallan would expect of a fabrial soulcaster. She didn't need to Coltonx9 Why do the gems in Jasnah's Soulcaster break when she is using her own ability in the first book? Brandon Sanderson Jasnah is very good at fooling people. 3. Although different essences require different approaches for ease of soulcasting, I do not recall any indication that the further away something is from its cognitive aspect, the harder it would be to change. Jasnah soulcasts rock to smoke, and air to rock all the time. It takes different ways of convincing, some of which is more difficult than others (air likes being free), but I do not see any indication that the further something is "unbelievable" the harder it is to soulcast. As long as the radiant gets the concept and can get that concept across to the spren, anything should be soulcastable.

As of Way of Kings I see Jasnah winning because it does not seem like Mraize and co know what Radiants are capable of at that point (Jasnah surviving the assassination attempt and escaping, as well as Shallan befuddling Mraize and co. with her illusions). After it is revealed that Shallan is a lightweaver to Mraize, and Jasnah is back and revealed to be a radiant, I would imagine Mraize has looked into ways of dealing with radiants, so I could see it start to tip in his favor. Though Jasnah with soulcasting is pretty hard to beat. He would probably need a larkin or some other means of destroying investiture to get the upper hand and take her out quick.

But the bacteria with Ashyn are forming a symbiotic bond with the person to result in powers. Not someone else's bacteria (as in some person other than the power user).

Ok, finally finished Oathbringer! Sorry for the delay. Here we go! Reinforcement of the lessons Jasnah taught Shallan. To the outside world Jasnah is cold, harsh, and in control always. But we see through her lessons to Shallan, it is a shield, it is armor to help protect the feelings inside, but also aid in survival at court. Another example of how Dalinar trusts and depended on Jasnah. She is capable and proficient in politics. That does not however mean she is a manipulative snake in the grass. Dalinar reasons the necessity of doing so and if he was more capable, he would do so himself. He even says he will do as much when at the end of the book it is revealed to him that Adolin is the one that murdered Sadeas. Just including this quote to further back up my earlier point about how Jasnah carries herself externally vs internally. Another sign of Jasnah caring for her family. She and Navani looked after Adolin after Evi’s death, and made sure he had a good education. She took an interest in her cousins when she didn’t have to. Despite all Shallan learned about Jasnah, it is interesting that she still has a very idealized view of her mentor I like this little tidbit, because it shows even when Jasnah is in command, she does still take the time to allow some familiarity and a personal touch. I find this accusation of Mraize interesting. He implies that Jasnah struck first and the Ghostbloods were just retaliating. Thing is, as shown earlier, Jasnah discovered that the Ghostbloods were intent on taking advantage of the Desolations to gain power. She is trying to stop it to save her family and the world. We have no idea what was happening that resulted in Jasnah killing a member of the Ghostbloods. The common assumption is an assassination, but that is far from the only possibility, and personally I do not think was the case. I could easily see a circumstance occurring where while Jasnah was searching for information, an agent of the ghostbloods runs into her, and they end up in conflict over an ancient tome or piece of information. The battle results in Jasnah surviving and killing the agent of the Ghostbloods. Regardless the circumstance, the Ghostbloods hardly come out as an innocent organization. To me they are right up there with the Sons of Honor. One organization (Sons of Honor) wants to bring about the Desolations which will result in the deaths of countless innocent people to further their own agenda, the other organization (Ghostbloods) wants to manipulate the Desolation and prolong it resulting in even greater loss of life to further their own agenda. Sounds pretty similar to me. I find this dismissive comment by Gavilar interesting. He could mean it wouldn’t make sense to give it to Jasnah because since she is a woman, she would not wield it. However, I am surprised he wouldn’t consider it as a means to marry Jasnah off once she comes of age given I believe she is 6 years old at this time. Either way, Gavilar doesn’t think much regarding his daughter in this moment. I like this scene because again it shows how Jasnah works. She doesn’t jump to conclusions. She doesn’t rush nor act without further information. Jasnah ingrained this so much that Shallan reminds herself of it, even when her brother’s killer is right in front of her. She thinks to herself, Jasnah would say not to judge without more details. Without gathering more information. I like this brief scene simply because it shows that Jasnah is a published author that is known world wide and is respected. The woman certainly has to have quite a few credentials in her own right to be regarded as such. Jasnah has returned. Jasnah is alive! The very revelation changes Shallan. Gives her some focus. Brings her back to her scholarly aspirations. Causing her to re-examine a lot of what she has gone through and trying to learn from it. In a way it is much like a student that was given a homework assignment and left to their own devices. Then once they realize the teacher is returning, they quickly scramble to make up all the lost time, and worry about how their work will look. She then muses in (to me) a way that indicates she is hurt. Jasnah did not confide in Shallan that she had survived. Shallan was left out of the loop and grieved over her loss mentor. In a way she feels a bit betrayed. She also seems a bit upset over having to track Jasnah down to talk instead of the other way around, while forgetting that she just mused to herself that she locked herself away to recover and examine what she just went through. So it is not exactly Jasnah’s fault for giving Shallan space, space that Shallan herself required and got annoyed at any interruptions (from everyone, Adolin included). Shallan again thinks of Jasnah as perfect based on her appearance. Through our journey through Way of Kings and Words of Radiance we know far more lies beneath. Despite all she has learned of Jasnah, Shallan still sees her mentor as flawless and is envious of her. She thinks that Jasnah came out of the attempted assassination without any problems, when we know the truth is quite the opposite. Jasnah was distraught and torn up over abandoning Shallan and the crew against her own will by Ivory pulling her into Shadesmar. When she met Hoid, she was burned, dirty, and exhausted from unknown trials and danger. Just because Jasnah looks composed now, does not mean the woman did not have to fight and was not hurt during the intervening time. Shallan is then hurt/annoyed that their reunion starts with Jasnah lecturing her. She says to herself how it is “fitting” in a bitter manner. However I would argue it is fitting because of how Jasnah is. It is how Jasnah copes. Outwardly she is logical and focused, while inwardly she feels. The glimpse we saw of how upset she was over Shallan’s supposedly attempted suicide is to show us that just because Jasnah does not blatantly show her emotions, does not mean those emotions do not exist. For all we know when Jasnah found out Shallan survived and all she accomplished, Jasnah could have (and I feel probably did) been filled with relief, pride and joy. So to me, it is not entirely fair for Shallan, despite all she has learned about Jasnah, to be upset about how Jasnah goes about their reuniting. Jasnah confirms this by then apologizing to Shallan. She takes what happened on herself, when anyone could make the same mistake, especially when she was single handedly fighting an entire organization with resources that transcend the planet, all while doing her best to do a game of catch up with the fate of the world on the line. I mean jeez, talk about high expectations. Jasnah is smart and capable, but she isn’t inhuman. Or at least that is my opinion, and I feel all the quotes I am providing support that. Jasnah then extols Shallan for all her accomplishments, and warns her that she is almost certainly in danger. Jasnah then notices the change in Shallan’s tone that causes her to be concerned for Shallan. Shallan says she is upset for not being told Jasnah was alive, but we also see her being honest with herself that the real reason she is upset is that by Jasnah returning, Shallan begins to question her capabilities again. Here is someone that in her head, is so capable as to be perfect. What are her accomplishments when held against Jasnah? I do not fault Shallan for feeling this way because it happens to all of us sometimes, but we also know this is not true, nor fair towards Jasnah. Shallan gets snarky with Jasnah, and Jasnah smiles. Shallan doesn’t understand why, but for me, I think this is Jasnah being happy about returning to their old dynamic. I think Jasnah missed Shallan, and Shallan getting snarky with her is familiar. It causes a warm feeling for Jasnah. Remember although Jasnah does not outwardly show emotion, I think it is safe to say in the journey we have been on, we have seen how deeply Jasnah cares for Shallan. In some ways, Shallan views Jasnah’s return as a relief. Someone else that can take over from all the pressures. Let Jasnah be “Brightness Radiant”. The scene closes by given us another glimpse into vulnerable Jasnah. She feels lost, drowning in all the information she has to catch up on. She struggled for so long, and now that everything is being revealed, she feels like she knew nothing to begin with. For such a scholar, it must be very upsetting. This is one of my favorite scenes with Jasnah. It shows so much about her that was hidden over the course of the books, laid bare. First we see Jasnah business as usual, analyzing the vision for historical accuracy, and information. That is how she reasons that the cause of the inconsistent technological level despite the chronological nature of the Visions is how utterly devastating the Desolations were. They destroyed learning and progress, leaving behind a broken people. The Radiants were supposed to stop that. Now they are experiencing a desolation where the Radiants aren’t anywhere near the same number they were, without anywhere close the knowledge of the surges. The situation looks pretty dire to me. Despite the looming threat Jasnah smiles. Why? Because she sees the visions as gift to help them survive the coming end of the world. She admires and loves Dalinar. She recognizes how hard it was on him to hold true to the visions even after everyone (including his own son) thought him mad. She then expresses concern for him and the backlash from the church. She doesn’t take this time to say “ha I told you so”. She doesn’t say “see? The church is horrible!”. Not at all. What she says is she is concerned about how he feels. She knows how important religion became to Dalinar. She knows how much it must pain him to be at odds with the church, and even more at odds with his best friend Kadash. Even Dalinar of all people, assume Jasnah would exult in another heretic joining her ranks. But that does not matter to her. It does not matter to her that he still believes in a god, just that it is not the Almighty. No, she is happy to be able to talk to the uncle she loves. She is pained to see him in pain. She feels sorrow for his loss. She has no problem with people believing in what works for them. No one seems to understand that about her no matter how many times she says it. He asks how she can stand the things people say about her. How they treat her, and she is open and honest in her response. She doesn’t know. She has had to fight for every inch. She has had to fight to hold her beliefs. She has had to fight to be herself. People will try to classify you, and belittle you based on things that actually don’t apply to you at all, just so it is easier for them to cast you aside. She rejects that. She chooses to define herself, and suggests he does the same. Brandon then takes the time to mention Navani and Jasnah’s reunion. The cold and distant Jasnah in tears when reunited with her mother. The scene closes with Dalinar finally feeling the relief and love that comes from knowing he can finally share his burden with Navani and Jasnah. This scene really hits every single point I have been hitting this entire way through this thread. So just like the scene with the thugs, I know this is a hotly discussed scene based on morality and etc. A with the other scene, I am not discussing the morality of Kaladin and Jasnah. I am looking at this scene from what I feel is Jasnah’s perspective and the why. Why she is saying what she is saying. What she is feeling. This is again to better understand Jasnah the character. So here we go. Jasnah views her and Shallan’s relationship as still a wardship. She feels just because Shallan gained powers, does not change that Shallan is still a student in need of education. A 10 year old that can fly still needs to learn math and language. So too a 17 year old (If I recall her age correctly, if I am wrong, please let me know and I will correct) still needs the training of a scholar. This sense of normality both assures Shallan while also grating on her nerves. We see Jasnah’s paranoia on being spied on or potentially assassinated. Given how many times people have tried to kill her before we even got to meet her, nonetheless in the books we have read, I feel this paranoia is warranted. After all it is not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Jasnah is also respectful to her brother’s rule. She makes sure to include notes for him to review so he can be kept abreast of what is happening in his absence. This being a war meeting, Jasnah begins by covering tactical issues. She reasons that they have to prevent the voidbringers from gaining too great a foot hold, otherwise team humanity will be fighting a defensive/losing battle. Kaladin says they aren’t our enemies. Jasnah (in my opinion), annoyed responds that of course they are the enemies. They are in the process of conquering the world. That even if they are not immediately hostile, their leaders are, and those leaders can possess them turning them hostile. Navani agrees. Kaladin replies that they should just fight the fused. This again (in my opinion) frustrates Jasnah. They just established that the fused possess the parshendi, so trying to separate who you fight is an exercise in futility. On top of that, in “normal” war when you are on the battlefield, you cannot exactly say to an enemy “hey can you step to the side so I can attack your leader instead of you? I don’t have any problems with you. I just want to kill him”. Now as I said at the beginning of this scene, I am not commenting on whether what Kaladin said was right or wrong. I am (in my opinion) looking at this exchange from Jasnah’s perspective and rationale. Keep in mind we just had a scene with Jasnah prior to this where she realized based on the blow to technology, that these Desolations were so devastating that they actually sent humanity back to the “stone age”. Jasnah has been driving herself to exhaustion and stress with every fiber of her being to try and prevent this. Unfortunately she was not able to. I would imagine she sees it as a personal failure. Like she felt she failed to protect her father from the assassin in white. Now that the desolation is here, she is doing the best she can to protect the people she loves, and survive. All Kaladin is doing (in my opinion she would think this) is ignoring the issues at hand, and preventing any true discussion. That is why I think the fight escalates. Jasnah feels this is a very extreme and dangerous situation. Such situations require research, and hard choices. Denying the existence of such issues only results in greater problems. I feel Jasnah really is taking the desolations as a responsibility she is placing on her own shoulders. She is terrified of making a mistake. Of having not thought of something spelling the end of her and everyone she loves. That is why she is aggressive right back at Kaladin. There are no second chances in a situation like this. You make a mistake, its game over. Period. So she will research and discuss every part, on any chance any hope could be come to. Even when both Kaladin and Jasnah are bullheaded and butting heads, she adapts. Even when Kaladin calls her insane (which considering her history, that barb probably cut especially deep). She knows they need information regardless what they ultimately decide to do. So she concedes in the argument, so long as it means something real is accomplished. Fine, let him say I cuddle eels, if it means we get the info we need to protect. To preserve against the end of the world. Jasnah then notices Shallan’s drawing of Kaladin, and suggests taking a break. Jasnah comments how being a scribe is not such a lowly task as Shallan implies. Jasnah does not belittle useful occupations. Jasnah tries to discuss what happened with Shallan, while Shallan acts petulant and lashes out. With patience Jasnah gives credit where credit is due and lists Shallan’s accomplishments. But she also lists multiple concerning actions Shallan has been taking lately. Actions that do not care whether you are a radiant or not, they still need to be done. Jasnah gives Shallan an opportunity to open up. To confide in her. Despite this, Shallan remains closed off. In resignation Jasnah makes it explicit that despite being a radiant, Shallan still has responsibilities, and Jasnah will hold her to them. Jasnah feels Shallan needs structure, and Shallan ends up admitting to Pattern that Jasnah is probably right. Jasnah listens when Shallan mentions what Pattern said about the room, showing despite their disagreement, Jasnah is always open to new information. Shallan then remarks to herself how Jasnah uses tactical terms, and held her own in the militaristic discussion. She muses that Jasnah is a woman of contradictions. She defies labels and stands up for others to be able to do the same. Then we get Shallan’s idealized version of Jasnah once more. She thinks Jasnah is so perfect, that everything is effortless to her, and she has hardly any problems. I hope through this thread I have show the reality is quite different. Everything Jasnah has attained she has had to fight and work for. I find it interesting that Shallan now feels that studying under Jasnah would result in her being a mousey scribe, while in Way of Kings, she felt studying under Jasnah was liberating and allowed her to be more herself. I find it interesting that Shallan mused that Jasnah at least “had the backbone to pick a side and announce it”. Despite the off hand mention, as I have illustrated in this thread, I think that is very accurate. Jasnah has had to stand up for herself in defense of her beliefs despite overwhelming opposition. Even in light of this opposition, Jasnah still respects individuals of the opposing side so long as they return the respect and are genuinely good people seeking enlightenment. I think that speaks greatly on her character. This contrasts nicely with Janala, who in many ways is actually the type of person we are led to believe Jasnah is. Rich, self important, with her nose perpetually in the air. Shallan approaches Jasnah, and Jasnah admonishes her for her lateness, again. Shallan muses that had Jasnah known what she had just gone through, she would have shown some empathy, to which Pattern replies that she is not very empathetic. As I have mentioned before, I find this backing and forthing on the characters interpretation of Jasnah interesting. We have seen how much Jasnah cares for Shallan. How worried she can get over her. How often Jasnah puts forward a strong exterior, but underneath lies a multi layered and complicated woman. Just another surface commentary from a character disregarding what lies beneath. Renarin shows up feeling uncertain, and Jasnah immediately welcomes him before anyone could object or make him feel further outcasted. Later when Renarin is mocked, Shallan rushes to his defense. After taking a break, Jasnah explains that Navani was going to speak to Janala discreetly but also make it very clear how unacceptable her conduct was. Jasnah knows when to take action, and when to trust others to take action. She is just as protective of Renarin, and we see much later in the book how she was there for him when he was younger. Just because she does not exhibit an immediate outburst in response does not mean she does not have feelings for Renarin, and does not mean she will take no actions in his defense. We have another instance of Jasnah admitting fault. She takes responsibility for Shallan’s actions as her mentor, blaming herself that she has shortcomings as a teacher. I find Renarin’s comments about Jasnah interesting. He finds her intimidating, yet admits that standing up to her although is an option, is unfavorable because Jasnah usually is right which causes him to feel foolish. As we have just seen with Jasnah talking to Shallan, it is not because Jasnah insults or derides the person. Quite the contrary, she talks respectfully and measured. The individual on the other end gets upset/flustered because they end up being wrong and it makes them feel self conscious. To imagine how it feels for Jasnah that she must walk on eggshells around everyone else, all the time, for fear that she would injure their pride for “being right”. That the alternative is to remain silent and pretend ignorance so everyone else can feel better about themselves. To Jasnah, she would rather be cast in a negative light and be authentic, than pretend to be something she is not. Amazing scene right here. We get it all. Fear, doubt, compassion, and inner strength. Jasnah literally trembled at the thought of madness. Being unable to trust yourself and your own senses. She sympathizes with the Heralds. Earlier in the book she mentioned locating the Heralds, gaining information from them, requesting they return to damnation to potentially buy time, or if they refuse kill them so they return (knowing that even if it doesn’t slow down the voidbringers, the heralds could just return no worse for wear). To me this shows she does not think on possibilities lightly. She understands what they are going through and is terrified of potentially going through it again. She hints that she experienced that once in her life and it scarred her. Yet it still needs to be acknowledged. It still needs to be discussed. This shows great inner strength. This also shows what a deep cut Kaladin calling her insane must have been. We are again reminded what the stakes are in this war. The enemy stirs, he angers. He intends to destroy both Jasnah’s and Ivory’s kind. Despite the gravity of the situation, Jasnah still has time to talk about Shallan and the concern she has for her ward. Jasnah admits to Ivory and herself that she is not “stone”. She has emotions. She has fears. She cares about the people in her life, and doesn’t want to lose them. Even though she feels that the people she loved caused whatever happened to her in the past to question her sanity, she still loves them and wants to protect them. That is the driving force behind Jasnah. Love for her family. From before Gavilar’s death, to the coming desolation, Jasnah’s goal was to see her family safe. Jasnah muses on how Shallan seems to rebel against her simply to rebel. Through talking it out with Ivory, Jasnah realizes that by trying to help Shallan with structure, she may in fact be suffocating her. Making Shallan obey Jasnah is unimportant. Jasnah is not ordering Shallan around because she thinks she is better than her, nor because she treats everyone that way. Jasnah was keeping the ward relationship because she truly felt Shallan would benefit from it. Now that she is realizing that may not be the case. That maybe Shallan needs to find her own way. I think that is awesome. It shows a level of self reflection, and consideration of Jasnah that is down right endearing. She truly cares about Shallan’s well being, and works to get to know her as a person, rather than just a student. Works to learn what would genuinely help Shallan. Finally we see that Jasnah is not keeping secrets out of spite, nor to be deceptive. Any information she keeps from the other characters is either out of respect to Ivory (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) or because of the danger it may pose. Even then she is hesitant to keep information to herself. One of the most important things in the world to Jasnah is keeping her family safe. Protecting them. One of her biggest tenants is history being a guide. Learning from the past. We see both at the very front of her thoughts with this scene. Looking to the past regarding prior dynasties and seeking to learn from them, in order to preserve her family and not fall to the same mistakes others have made. For over a decade Jasnah dreamed of bringing together the best minds of the kingdom together for the betterment of humanity. Instead all they cared about was her heresy. How frustrating must that have been for Jasnah wanting to save the people she loved, only to be continually pestered about beliefs she had every right to hold. We get a brief glimpse of mothering Jasnah towards Renarin. Knowing whatever path he chooses will be hard, but silently cheering him on to find the courage to choose. At the same time she trusts in his strength to choose, she also shows her protect side by having Ivory watch the stormwardens that seek to use Renarin. Finally we get to see Jasnah with friends! Friends that I might add are both from other countries (Azir and Thaylenah). Friends that I might also add that one of which has to pretend to be a woman in order to publish scholarly works. Jasnah holds no judgement towards that pastry chef, and speaks with him fondly. It does not matter that he is a man, nor from another country. All that matters to her is that he is a learned individual who questions and wants to learn more. Jasnah, just like she said she would during her fight with Kaladin, continues to research the heralds, their functions, and the parshmen. She takes in the new information, acknowledging the new picture of what and who the voidbringers are. She discounts nothing so long as it is well reasoned and researched. Her concern regarding Renarin works just the way she approaches everything else. Research first. Confirm first. Do not act brashly. Renarin is acting oddly. Jasnah goes to Shallan to get her thoughts. Aiming to discuss with others and get their input. It is then they are interrupted and we get another epic Jasnah scene. This portion I feel the need to break down in list form regarding the order of occurence Amaram enters the room and approaches Jasnah, drawing close without her permission Jasnah makes it clear from the get go she has no intention nor desire to speak with him Amaram disregards this response, and then requests to speak privately Jasnah again makes it clear to him the answer is no (for the second time now) Amaram pushes more, and implies that Jasnah should manipulate Dalinar to do as he wants Jasnah respects Dalinar’s thoughts, and has no intention of “steering” him Amaram jumps of course to religion as everyone does regarding Jasnah. She must be infecting him with her beliefs. She must be luring him away from the faith! (we of course know otherwise as per their conversation in Dalinar’s vision) Jasnah corrects him Amaram pushes her again, now the third time. Jasnah tells him no again and to leave. Amaram mentions being close once, to which she corrects that was her father, not her. Jasnah warns him a fourth time to leave. He ignores her and steps closer, and expresses concern over seeing her well We are up to fifth time. Jasnah says she is well now leave. This is still not enough Amaram grabs her by the arm and asks why has she refused him. I think you all get my point that I do not have to continue in list form. Jasnah has already told him to leave five times. Each time Amaram has only gotten more insistent and closer, violating her personal space against her express wishes. She has had to be continually and relentlessly pushed to respond, and oh boy does she respond. He wants to know why? She makes sure to tell him and make clear why. The “noble” Amaram’s response? He goes to draw his shardblade. The second time he has done something like this. The first being on Dalinar and just like Dalinar, Jasnah checkmates Amaram handedly. She didn’t want this. She didn’t want a spectacle, but he forced it. We then learn more of why Jasnah despises Amaram. He is an egotistical narcissistic brightlord willing to see armies (and as we know, all of roshar) be torn apart to satisfy his overly inflated opinion of himself. She muses that she would speak with Dalinar to work out something. Not force Dalinar. Not “steer” him. Talk because they respect each other and work well together. Despite how Jasnah was pushed into this interaction, she still takes responsibility for her part in in and uses it as an educational moment for Shallan. Shallan then takes the opportunity to mention going to Kholinar. Jasnah listened and although not sold on it yet, says she will discuss it with Elhokar, showing she respects his authority to confer with him over her ward. The scene closes with an awesome Renarin moment. Just had to include this bit to show how differently two cultures view Jasnah. In Alethkar, the first thing on everyone’s mind is Jasnah’s heresy and her “coldness”. In Azir on the other hand, her work is lauded and her name inspires marvel and amazement. Truly makes me feel Alethkar does not know what they have in Jasnah. Nice little tidbit here on Jasnah’s capabilities as a ruler. Navani is impressed with how Jasnah has everything organized and has three disparate groups (stormwardens, scholars, and ardents) all working together towards a common goal. Two of those groups by the way that oppose Jasnah in her beliefs, yet she succeeds in getting them to work under her and accomplishing tasks. Jasnah is trying to keep an eye on Renarin and research everything about him before coming to any conclusions. I find this interaction between Navani and Jasnah funny and interesting. History, in fact any history, is important in Jasnah’s mind. Even personal histories are worthy of note as it causes us to learn more about ourselves. We get another apology from Jasnah! It is funny, for someone that everyone (in the books) acts like is perfect, arrogant, and egotistical, Jasnah sure does admit when she is wrong, apologizes, and tries to do better an awful lot. Another touching moment between Jasnah and Dalinar. The love of her father drove Jasnah to seek “The Way of Kings” which she found out was the source of her father’s cryptic message to Dalinar. Sharing in their grief of a brother and father lost. Sharing in the words of the Way of Kings. Jasnah first sought it to answer the question of her father’s death, but like Dalinar, she heard something that touched her. She continued to read without pause. She didn’t have to be prompted by Dalinar to do so. She chose to. In tears the both of them spent nearly eight hours together reading it. Their last farewell to Gavilar. Looks like quite an emotional moment to me. Included this scene for two reasons. First, I think it is great to see Jasnah stop Ialai in her tracks. Jasnah is intelligent, competent and in control. Ruthar of course goes to the only thing anyone seems to think is worth talking of regarding Jasnah. Her faith. Just because she is a heretic, she must be a horrible sinner. Doesn’t matter she had been spending the better part of six years trying to stop the end of the world. Doesn’t matter she nearly died multiple times doing it. But because she doesn’t believe in the national religion, she must be a horrible person that seeks to sin anytime she can. Jasnah has had to fight this every step of the way, to the point that Dalinar knows it is a familiar battleground to her, and Ruthar doesn’t have a chance. I say again as I have said before, how much it feel that despite all your accomplishments. Everything you have done. All of it is forgotten in the face of your personal beliefs. To be attacked about it relentlessly. And people (in the book) wonder why Jasnah holds just a stern exterior. To me it is plain as day. Jasnah’s instinct is to check on Renarin and be there for him. It is only because of the pressing nature of what is happening that she is stopped. Jasnah cares for Renarin. It has been spelled out all across Oathbringer in Jasnah’s way. Because of what we have seen of Jasnah. Because of her interactions with those she cares about. Because of her feelings for Renarin, what to come was not a surprise to me. I feel it was building all along. It may not appear to be at first, but this is a very difficult scene for Jasnah. She is trying to push herself to do it. Continually reinforcing that it must be done. Focus, must focus. Interesting tidbit here “Renarin Kholin was a liar”. The implication being the evidence Jasnah gathered indicates Renarin is a complicit and willing traitor. A possible future. One being reinforced by Glys (not saying Glys is the cause of the future, or pushing it to happen. Just pointing out the nature of self fulfilling prophesies) More evidence. Renarin is clearly (or so it seems) using powers from the other side. He has lied about them. Kept them secret. There is a spy in Kholin’s house (though we know it is Taravangian, Jasnah did not). The only conclusion could be Renarin Here we go. The big scene. The moment some have said is the first time we see emotion and genuine love from Jasnah. I think I have shown otherwise. Love has always been there. Just had to know where to look. Despite all the evidence. Despite everything indicating Renarin is the spy, Jasnah is still struggling. She keeps trying to convince herself to do it. But she realizes she can’t. It doesn’t matter if it could mean the world will end and the enemy will win. All that matters is her being there for that scared little boy she helped raise. The little boy she loved like a son. And now Jasnah gives voice to the reason for her decision “You’re my cousin. Family”. Her family is what drove Jasnah to exhaustion for six years. To save them. Protect them. And now together with her family, they drive forward. (I skipped the scene where Jasnah is doing some soulcasting amazingness as it does not give us any information on her as a character. Still epic though lol) Just including this scene because it shows that Jasnah has no problem falling in line and following orders so long as the source is an individual she trusts and respects, and the order makes sense. Decorum when it is required, action when it is not. Jasnah given seemingly absolute power does not tempt her. In fact it horrifies and concerns her. She recognizes the dangers that it poses to her self, to her body, and to others. Jasnah is not the type to grab for power, steam rolling any in her way. She works with people she respects. The signs of this above and throughout the three books tells me she will work well with Dalinar, Adolin, and the other highprinces in preserving the Alethi and fighting the Voidbringers. Jasnah, ever economical and tactical breaks down the situation in the battle to Fen and Navani. She takes in the information, considers what areas need support, and reasons what needs to be done. Finally she asks regarding Renarin, and once told he is working on, she trusts in his and Adolin’s capabilities to accomplish their goal. All, in my opinion, hallmarks of an excellent leader. Here we see Jasnah while holding off the fused still take the time to care for, and encourage Shallan while recognizing Shallan’s accomplishments. Shallan requests Jasnah teach her about soulcasting, and in fine ole Jasnah fashion she does exactly that. Shallan then feels overwhelmed and thinks it is a deficiency on her part. Jasnah reassures her it is fine, and then humbly relates that it takes time and work to learn the level of Jasnah’s skill. That Shallan isn’t just going to get it immediately. I find it ironic that at the same time Jasnah admonishes her capabilities as a teacher, she does a wonderful job. She is understanding, and supportive, while at the same time pushing her student to learn more. I included this quote because I think this portion is poignant “until they had proclaimed that Jasnah Kholin’s love would fail”. In order for love to fail, it has to be there in the first place all along. Love I feel this thread has shown all throughout all three books, and love that I think we will learn even more of when we get to see Jasnah’s flashbacks. I know by this point I am kind of beating a dead horse, but here again Jasnah takes the time to notice how Shallan is feeling and care for her. To see her safe and make certain the enemy is not coming back. I included this scene because it basically lists Jasnah’s qualifications as all three end up agreeing Jasnah is the best choice. Adolin points out whoever is king needs to be able to have the other monarchs listen to the person. Dalinar comments they have to be the type of person who won’t be pushed over, but also can handle issues diplomatically. Balance. Strong hand, but even governance. And now we close with Queen Jasnah. The reactions of all attending certainly seems to confirm that Dalinar’s, Adolin’s, and Shallan’s thoughts on Jasnah as Queen were right.

Got a WoB fresh off the presses about soulcasting! Posted below Stormlightning [PENDING REVIEW] You've talked about how Hoid really appreciates his new Lightweaving abilities, but what about the Soulcasting side of things? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] So... you'll have to see. Stormlightning [PENDING REVIEW] Is he excited about that, or does he already have all of that? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No, he doesn't have all of that. He knows more than a lot of people do, and knows to be more... frightened of Soulcasting than others are. Frightened is perhaps the wrong term. Wary.

Actually it seems Jasnah does have an issue with the institution of marriage. Since the quote from my thread Jasnah More than Meets the Eye" spans several pages, the scene I am referencing starts on page 38 of Words of Radiance. I will skip a bit around to the portions I feel are pertinent to Jasnah. It goes : "I have started the process," Jasnah said, speaking with uncharacteristic anxiety "Though at times he lacks foresight, Adolin has a good heart - as good as that of his father, who may be the best man I have ever known. he is considered Alethkar's most eligible son, and my mother has long wanted him wed." "Betrothed," Shallan repeated "Yes. is that distressing?" "Its wonderful!" Shallan exclaimed, grabbing Jasnah's arm more tightly. "So easy. If I'm married to someone so powerful...Storms! Nobody would dare touch us in Jah Keved. it would solve many of our problems. Brightness Jasnah, you're a genius!" Jasnah relaxed visibly "yes, well, it did seem a workable solution. I had wondered, however, if you'd be offended." "Why on the winds would I be offended?" "Because of the restriction of freedom implicit in a marriage" Jasnah said "And if not that, because the offer was made without consulting you. (fast forward a line or two) "Stormfather! You're worried I'd be offended? Brightness, I spent my entire life locked in my father's manor - I grew up assuming he'd pick my husband" "But you're free of your father now" (fast forward a few lines as Shallan explains her relationship history) "It doesn't bother you at all? Jasnah said "The idea of being beholden to another, particular a man?" "It's not like I'm being sold into slavery" Shallan said with a laugh "No. I suppose not" Jasnah shook herself, her poise returning So from that quote it says to me that Jasnah views marriage as a prison that limits personal freedom, especially regarding men (since we know that homosexual marriage is acceptable in Vorin lands). The reason she is fine with it for Adolin and Shallan is because like her stance with religion, just because something does not suit her, does not mean she will stop others if it suits them. But she did assume from the get go that Shallan would have the same misgivings as herself, which implies she sees marriage on whole in that light. So we actually have a fresh WoB on this! Fresh off the presses! Jasnah prefers to keep her sexuality to herself, so us not seeing anything indicative is natural for her. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Does/is Jasnah gay? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Jasnah prefers to keep her sexuality a subject of non-discussion. That is how Jasnah would answer. She would rather not discuss her sexuality. Well also keep in mind she wasn't taking care of those men only for herself. She did it out of respect for Taravangian who seemed to be powerless to change the situation, as well as she felt she was genuinely trying to do good. If you would like I can pull up those exact quotes as well. I think there is an implication that she has issues with what she views as "evil men", but also has men in her life that she holds in high esteem and respect. Not saying that a woman raped will hate all men intrinsically. Just saying Jasnah's aversion towards men seems to be point more towards criminals, and those seeking to limit her personal freedom. Those two reasons being linked doesn't scream rape to me. I did just want to clarify one thing about my responses. I totally get and respect that your points are just your readings of the information we have so far. I also totally respect and appreciate that you acknowledge and are open to alternative opinions. My response to you was not to say your thoughts are wrong. Just to continue the discussion and add additional information. Hopefully my post is taken in the intent it is meant. Lol, guess we will have to RAFO.

Realizing our discussion on jasnah is a bit of a digression from this topic, I do have a thread on jasnah we could continue there. Has all the quotes across the first two books. Almost done with oathbringer so will be posting soon. I included the link below. Look forward to discussing it further with you there! https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/84071-jasnah-more-than-meets-the-eye

True. Jasnah mentions that there are also creatures in the cognitive realm that could attack the unwary. It is a surge that takes practice, and dedication but once those are attained it is well rewarding. This is where we may disagree to a degree. Soulcasting is not always mass conservative. People soulcasted to stone do not shrink. People soulcasted to smoke do not explode. According to another thread soulcasting the boulder to smoke should have killed everyone in the room but it did not. So potentially we may not get the effect you are positing. As to forming a tiny perpendicularity, Elsecallers do that all the time to elsecall so it may not have the negative effects on the cognitive or spiritual realm that you are positing. Just some thoughts.

1. why didn't she teach shallan: soulcasting is dangerous. it nearly killed jasnah the first time she did it and nearly killed shallan about 3 times. Jasnah and Shallan both explain this in Way of Kings and Words of Radiance 2. if she does have her plate, why reveal an ace in the hole? Shallan goes around on the lie that she is an elsecaller and that is what saved them in kholinar. 3. She held back the information regarding the recreance out of respect to Ivory. In oathbringer they discuss it, but ivory insists not to reveal it yet. She says she will consider it further and do more research 4. Jasnah helped Dalinar with his crisis of faith, Renarin with his radiancy, Shallan with her Radiancy, and helped the battle of thaylenah be victorious. Her flash backs are not till the end of the entire series, so I believe she is largely going to remain in the backgroundish till then. That is why I feel she was made queen from a narrative standpoint. Having said all that. i respect that you do not like the character. Hopefully in time you will come to enjoy her, but if not to each their own.

I agree Jasnah has trained extensively in soulcasting to be as good as she is, but I did want to point one thing out. Not all the largest examples were due to the perpendicularity. When Jasnah soulcasts an enemy into the crystal and shoves him, hitting another enemy, crystallizing him as well, then transferring the momentum to then hit a third and transforming him was before the perpendicularity's effects were felt by Jasnah and Renarin. In addition Jasnah ran up steps as she soulcasted them from air without pause also prior to the perpendicularity's effects being felt by Jasnah and Renarin. I respect your opinion that you don't like her. I on the other hand think she is awesome lol.

As per WoB, the only indication of this is that the elsecaller must understand what they are soulcasting the thing into, and be able to get that concept across to the spren. I have not seen any indication via WoB or in the books that the further away from an essence something is, the harder it becomes to soulcast. Brandon Sanderson This is useful information for me, but my gut says that Rosharans couldn't get this working with their current tech level. That said, the REAL issue (as you mentioned in your original question) is knowledge, not feasibility. They'd have to know how to make the right kind of Uranium or Plutonium--and would need to be able to get this across to a soulcaster in a way that works, then THEY would need to get this across to spren. Cross that hurdle, and I suppose it's not at all implausible to imagine Alethi during Dalinar's era with nukes. I suspect the right kind of fabrial could make a trigger device to match ring and bullet at the right time. Depends on how quickly it needs to be going, though.

Can you elaborate on why you feel Jasnah as a character would fit with being raped? Are you referring to the comment "men like those" or something else? Have we ever learned what devotary Kadash is from? Based on his responses to Adolin (trying to shut down questions), I do not feel that is the case. Considering we will not get Jasnah's back story till possibly the last book of the entire series, you might be recouped from what you feel is over saturation in tragic backstories lol.

I agree with everything except needing more viewpoints from Amaram. But I elaborated on that above, so no need to repeat Ok I think I responded to everyone.

Totally respect your opinion. I disagree but have already said why at length, so I wouldn't really be adding anything. I do think we will potentially get more of that angle from Jasnah's PoV as when they were younger Gavilar tried to push them together. To me if anyone knew the "real" Amaram and his progression, it would be Jasnah. My one thing about this is that the writing characters that are dead are regarding flash back characters who each get their own book and are at this point relatively locked in. They are Eshonai, Szeth, Renarin, Jasnah, Ash, Taln, and Lift (not in that order). So although I think we will get more info about Amaram through Jasnah's flashback, I do not see it being a flashback for Amaram. As I said with Calderis, I disagree, but have already written at length as to why so I do not want to bog this thread down or cause you to feel you cannot relate your opinion because of repeating my own. Suffice it to say, I believe the information we get from the other characters clashes with this.

But in order for Amaram to ask for forgiveness, he would have had to admit everything he did was his own fault. That to me was the whole point of his dialogue with Kaladin during their last fight. Amaram just wouldn't own up to his responsibility like how Dalinar and Szeth did. Odium gave him that way out. All the lives that Amaram destroyed in the name of his religion as the "paragon of virtue" was a lie. It was always on Amaram. He couldn't handle it. He couldn't own up. So he ran. Edit: just had a thought. Technically I think we have seen how Odium convinced amaram to join the voidbringers. We got a front row seat to it for dalinar. All Odium had to do was show that the heralds lied which amaram already has a degree of proof for regarding taln and then make amaram relive every moment he killed someone or harmed someone in pursuit of returning the heralds. Make him experience all the pain of the people suffering at the hands of the desolation and say "it's not your fault amaram. It was me. It was always me. Let me take your pain". Just like he did with dalinar. Just amaram takes him up on the offer while dalinar refused

Here's an off the cuff theory. Jasnah admired an ardent of a devotrary that liked asking questions. That was the individual that got her the book of endless pages originally. Perhaps men like the ones that she killed in the alley, killed the ardent? That way she still gets to say "men like those", still gets to take it personally, but it is at the death of a close and respected colleague rather than rape.

To further corroborate this, at the night of Gavilar's death, when Jasnah gets up to leave the room, she remarks to herself how she is stared at because of her recently professed heretical status. That Dalinar as a drunk is normal and expected, but Jasnah as a heretic is unheard of.

Totally understand and respect that, and I also readily admit this is my own opinion, and not in any way shape or form saying my opinion is the right one. Just for myself I think the perspectives of the other characters in those scenes told me all I needed to know. Kaladin experiencing Amaram's treatment tells me everything I need to know. Jasnah's reaction to him, and then her flashbacks of him will tell me everything I need to know. The interlude that we will one day get of Gavilar interacting with him will also tell me everything I need to know. For me, yes he positioned himself well. He was in a position of influence as a light eyes, then as part of the sons of honor, and as a high marshal that it would make sense for him to be at all those locations. But Dalinar has plenty of generals and officers that are present during moments of importance and we do not need their PoV. So I do not feel for myself we need one for Amaram. For myself Amaram as a character is broken down in a few steps 1. Amaram the honorable highlord 2. Amaram the betrayer 3. Amaram the honorable highlord confirmed to be a lie by both Sadeas, Jasnah, Adolin (by suspicion), Kaladin (by experience), and Dalinar (by experience) 4. Amaram switches sides to Odium 5. Amaram the dead For me I do not see anything deeper to the character. But I realize others do. Just like plenty of people do not see anything deeper to Jasnah while I see tons. So again totally acknowledge other people's opinions on wanting to see more viewpoints of Amaram are totally valid. I am just an outlier where I do not think for myself that we do need them, and this post was just to explain my thoughts further. Not intending to disagree with your own thoughts or opinions.

So a few things. First, (to me) Amaram only had Taln to go by and may have reasoned once the desolation goes into full effect, he will regain his lucidity. Since Taln didn't regain his lucidity, and we don't know what Odium showed Amaram, I think it is still plausible that Amaram at that point could have switched sides. As to Odium giving up a highly prized agent, I disagree. If Amaram had switched sides that early, then Odium would have had a spy telling him all of the battle plans. As highlord Sadeas, Amaram was present during all the tactical meetings. When he wasn't, Ialai was, and through Ialai he would know what was being done. Had Dalinar thought Jah Keved was the real attack in error, then Amaram was perfectly positioned to take Thaylenah at Odium's behest. If Dalinar switched to Thaylenah and sent Amaram to Jah Keved like Amaram asked, then both places would have fallen in one fell swoop. Basically because of Amaram's intel, Odium would always be prepared for team radiant's attacks. I am the one dissenting voice on this. I personally do not think anything would be truly added to the narrative by giving Amaram additional viewpoints. But that is just my own view. I still go back to Sadeas and Jasnah. Amaram the "upstanding brightlord" is a lie. To me he wasn't actually trying to be what he claimed he was. It was a facade.

I mentioned in a prior post that there is a theory out there that Odium offered the "deal" to Amaram during the time he was "lost" in the Everstorm traveling to Urithiru. If that theory is correct, then Odium would potentially have reached out to Amaram after Amaram spoke to Taln (as a gibbering mess), Dalinar revealing him for what he is, and on the run. In that situation I could see Amaram taking the deal. Then everything after is him trying to manipulate the main cast, and get into position to undermine the Kholins for his new "boss" Odium.