Pathfinder

He said very clearly in the book why he does not want to become king. He feels they would not listen to him and he would be ineffective. They then picked Jasnah because she would be a better Queen. Highprince he was willing to do because he felt he would be effective at it. Again I feel you are painting this level of single mindedness that is discounting so many other aspects and levels of Adolin. And you are assuming he will be wrong about the extent of his abilities enough to get himself killed? To the extent that it is an assurety? That either he gets powers, or he will get himself killed. So I guess then he is a horrible soldier, and a short sighted commander that will get not only himself but his men killed because he will always go beyond what he is capable of. Personally I think Adolin is smart enough to realize when there is a task he is not suited for, and delegate it to someone who is. Personally I do not think Adolin is the type to suicidally compromise the success of a mission, because he has to be the one to do it. He learned his lesson from the shattered plains when Dalinar got surrounded. Kaladin told him to save the men, and Kaladin would handle getting Dalinar. Adolin didn't like it at the time, but he still did it because it was the right thing to do. Adolin with the thunderclast in thaylenah shows that growth. He didn't need anyone to force him. He realized for himself, and chose to do so. Not sure where far fetched is coming into our discussion? Again not sure why this is coming up in our current discussion? We already established each of our own theories and why we think they would work. I think my own theory will work out. You think yours will. I wish you luck with yours. What does that have to do with the absolute you presented that if Adolin does not get powers, he will end up either dead or irrelevant?

Lol happy to help and bring the joy of Rysn dragon/lanceryn rider to more people for the holiday season.

To clarify what my argument is: 1. I believe Adolin will awaken Maya with the help of Dalinar to become an Edgedancer 2. Some people believe Adolin will not become a Radiant 3. Calderis stated if Adolin does not become a Radiant, because Adolin always fights at the front lines, he will die. Or because he does not have powers, he will not be where the action is, and become irrelevant 4. Just because I believe Adolin will become a radiant, does not mean I cannot appreciate and understand the theories of those who believe he will not. 5. I disagree with the dichotomy that Adolin will either become a radiant or he will become irrelevant/die. I believe we have seen enough of Adolin being capable in other areas that if he does not in fact get powers, he would still be relevant, and would not just die. 6. My responses are not intended to be "I want Adolin to be without powers!" "I want Adolin to vanish from the narrative!" "I want Adolin to die!" "I want Adolin to be uninteresting!". Painting my responses as such (not saying you are, I mean in general) is disingenuous and very much "us vs them" 7. I see no reason why people cannot believe Adolin will become a radiant, while others believe Adolin will not gain powers. Both can coexist. Just because someone believes one, does not prevent another from being equally viable. 8. If 20 people say Adolin will get powers, and 5 people say he will not. Those 5 people will not change whatever it is Brandon will write. If 20 people say Adolin will not get powers, and 5 people say he will. Those 20 people will not change whatever Brandon will write. People can have theories that have nothing to do with how a character is being "treated". Did that help? But in an instance, where someone else was better suited to fight, he willingly gave his blade away so that the goal could be accomplished. He then went to look for another way he could help. The same would stand for being a radiant. He sees how he can accomplish something. If someone else is more capable and available, then he defers to that person, and tries to do something else. That is what a commander does. They do not do everything themselves. It is a lesson Dalinar had to learn in Words of Radiance. He had to learn to let others do their jobs. Adolin is a highprince. His job is leading what equates a country. If he is without powers and cannot lead from the front, then he will lead from the back. Otherwise the Adolin you are presenting is some suicidal brainless thug who is focused on personal glory. That even though there is a thunderclast that he in no way can defeat, he will keep on fighting it, because that is what he does, all the way till the hand comes down and he goes squish. Which is not what happened in the book. He held it off till someone better equipped came along. He then assisted them, and then tried to be effective in another manner. edit: this also disregards the developing fabrial tech as well as past desolations. Navani has no powers, but used her painrial to take on Sadeas's men. Why couldn't Adolin not bond a spren, but try out Navani's fabrials? She already tested the painrial on him. Why not others? Past desolations had normal people fighting as well because "shardbearers cannot hold ground". We see multiple occasions of "normies" in Dalinar's visions. You want to believe Adolin will awaken Maya and become a radiant? Great! I wish you luck with your theory! But those who believe he will "remain normal" are not saying he will die or be removed from the narrative. They are saying they see the potential for the narrative to go in that direction, and they would enjoy such a narrative. Interesting theory! I wish you luck! To add to your spoiler theory:

If you do a forum search on lanceryn (it is hard to find. if you give me a bit I may be able to pull it up for you), but there is a post quoting Peter (Brandon's editor) stating that the larkin is the early form of a lanceryn, which is referred to as a greatshell that was formerly thought extinct. So although not outright confirmed, I think it hints (I hope) that Chiri-Chiri will get dragon size. edit: here is where I posted elsewhere, and then the link to the source: AhoyMatey (paraphrased) Are larkin and lanceryn one and the same? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There’s a little bit more than just [being] one and the same, but in some ways they are. Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014) Larkin and lanceryn 1. In WoK, Jasnah's mention of this lanceryn befuddled me a lot. We know that it is a kind of greatshell with gemhearts native to Aimia, but except this, we know nothing. The translator interpreted it as "lance-beast". I suspect he got it inspired because "lanceryn" is similar to "lance", which is a kind of weapon. I'd like to know whether this name origins from "lance" or not. If not, could you simply describe how this creature actually looks like, so I can come up with a new term? (I'm not sure if the former translator has ever contacted you.) 2. So larkins are more like flying insects? I imagine they are a mixture of crab (or any crustacean), wasp and little dragon. Is that okay? (Do larkins really have reddish/brown crusts?) Peter The lanceryn and larkin are two names for the same creature. When it says lanceryn, it’s definitely referring only to the enormous greatshell version that is believed to be extinct. The name is not related to “lance”…I think. The small larkin can be considered the cremling/larva version of the lanceryn.

(including Watchcry for the portion discussing about everyone technically can, but the rest of my response about dropping the subject is solely towards Ookla the Prolific) I believe what he is saying is anyone can go to a shardpool, which is a perpendicularity and transfer to the cognitive realm, but elsecallers have a specific power that enables them to do so. (this ends the portion for both Watchcry and Ookla) (Now for the portion only for Ookla the Prolific) Honestly at this point if someone in the book saying they once thought Shallan could do it, but now know she cannot is not enough, then nothing will be. I think based on the information we have it is clear that Lightweavers can only peer into the cognitive realm, Willshapers can only transfer fully into the cognitive realm, and Elsecallers can do both. At the end of the day from what you wrote, there is nothing that can be shown that would convince you of such. Even if we never see Shallan transfer fully of her own power through all 10 novels, you can still say "well we just have not seen her do it on screen". So I wish you luck with your theory.

And yet Dalinar has the narrative of a leader without fighting and still has a large narrative impact. In oathbringer Dalinar did not physically fight a single fused, but his refusal of Odium is one of people's favorite scenes. Again, you assume that because of a certain narrative, the number of pages will reduce. You assume less pages mean less relevance to a plot. You assume it means a decrease in quality No problem. I have said repeatedly, in just about every single post I made. I totally get and respect you would like to see Adolin with powers. That there are aspects of the narrative that say to you he is reviving Maya. That is great. I wish you luck with it. But that still does not mean the people with theories of him without powers cannot be great narratives too. You assume any other narrative would result in less page time. For all you know it could result in more. But you are dismissing it because of this perception of numeric value. A numeric value that has no basis. We have characters across the entire spectrum. Characters with more page time, but less narrative importance. Characters that are main characters but with little page time. Characters with amazing moments with little to no page time. Characters with tons of page time but no huge moments. People were crazy about Adolin killing Sadeas. Went up and down about how this is a huge narrative, and will have tons of page time. It "ended" before the first part of Oathbringer. You are saying politics and leading would lead to less page time. Most of Dalinar's arc was regarding politics and leading and Oathbringer was his book. He was the main character for it. So you have two instances where one narrative everyone thought would result in tons of page time, did not, and one that you say would result in less page time, took up a large portion of the book. Now you may not like to read politics, which in that case, it does not matter how much page time the character got, the value of those pages were less for you. So once again, I do not think it is right to judge a theory because of an arbitrary number you pop in your head. And I say arbitrary because it is. There is not some table that lists narrative titles and has a page length next to it. There is not a chart to refer to to go, "ah this involves swords, that means it will take 30 pages". You are the one assigning the value. Sooooooo I am guess him passing his blade to the thaylen shardplate wearer to fight the thunderclast doesn't count? Him ordering troops on how to hold the area, and so on does not count? Because if he is going to throw himself into combat no matter what, even when presented with a reason where he can be more effective in another way, then I guess we read different books.

I do not see the value of a character tied to page time. I tie the value of the character with what is done with that page time. Jasnah, Renarin, Moash, Rock, Rlain, Fen, Rysn (I could go on), all have gotten little page time, but are beloved characters and have done amazing things with the space they have. Any of them getting more pages or less means nothing to me so long as what is done with those pages counts. The moment between Renarin and Jasnah is a whole lot of people's favorite moments across all the novels, but those two characters are among the ones with the least page time. So I guess that moment was a bad narrative then. Totally respect that you prefer your theory to that. I wish you luck with your theory! It is a logical fallacy. You do not know for a fact that one narrative will lead to less pages than another. You do not know for a fact that more pages equals better. So to say a theory is going to lead to a bad narrative based on these two criteria is problematic. I totally get it is not the story you would like to see. I totally get you like the image in your head of Adolin the Radiant. And I totally get you have theories regarding tidbits in the narrative that lead you to believe Maya will be awakened. But to say because you do not like the idea of Adolin not having powers means it will be a bad story because of less page time is assuming multiple absolutes that you have no knowledge of nor can predict. Adolin can have no powers and end up a main character with all the page time in the book for all you know. You are disregarding possibilities because of what you perceive is the only way. All I am saying is it is not the only way. And I really really think all this measuring of PoVs and page length is damaging for discussion of theories. I worked really hard on my theory regarding Adolin and a bondsmith, but because some people think it would focus on Dalinar instead of Adolin, it is a bad narrative, and it cannot go that way. That to me disregards the information I put into the theory, and the narrative potential therein. All because in their mind, it results in less pages. As if such a thing can truly be measured before a book is even published. So for those that put effort into their theories of how the narrative could be really great for Adolin without powers, or a partial bond, it is really great to know that their theories are not valid because the arbitrary page number in someone else's head is not high enough.

Then to reiterate, that to me is reductionist. You prefer Adolin on the front lines and with power. Great. Totally respect that. But that does not mean the theories that place him without powers means he will be irrelevant, and will die. You may personally enjoy a narrative with him on the front lines and with powers, but that does not mean that is the only proper course for the character. So I have an issue with the binary nature of that statement. It is an us versus them, either or statement. I think the theories that would rather Adolin have no powers, or Maya awaken partially are valid and have just as much narrative potential. Both theories (for adolin with power, and for adolin without power) can co-exist. Side note, I really really am tired of the whole more PoV or more page time equals good for a character. Jasnah barely got either across all three novels, and she is a fan favorite just as much as any other character. I have read characters in books that take up 90 percent and I cannot stand them. I have read characters that say one line, and I love them. Can we please stop using the argument of measuring the number of PoVs or perceived page time when discussing theories and stories we enjoy or not? That if a story does not result in x number of view points, or x number of pages, then it is a bad story? I really do not see how it helps in any way. I will go even one further. What does someone saying they don't think Adolin will get powers causes? If Brandon is going to write Adolin with powers, then someone writing a theory that he doesn't will not change that. Just like if Brandon is going to write Adolin without powers, a person writing a theory of Adolin with powers is not going to change that. So someone can measure the PoV and page length all they want, but if Brandon decides to go in a certain direction, then that is the direction it is going to go. Regardless is one or a hundred people say otherwise or agree.

Then why did you just say before you did not say that? Can you please stick to a stance so I can adequately reply? Do you or do you not think Adolin will die if he does anything other than get powers and fight on the front lines?

That quote says that the elsecallers are especially benevolent by letting anyone come with them. That although lightweavers and willshapers have powers associated to it, the elsecallers are the true masters. Which is perfectly in line with them having two powers that let them access the cognitive realm in two different ways. Can you explain what that quote is proving for you? Because I am at a loss. As to the WoB that you posed from 2014, here is one from 2016 Questioner 1 How was Jasnah able to teleport into the [Cognitive] Realm when she didn't seem to have any Stormlight in her in Words of Radiance? Brandon Sanderson She had enough. Questioner 1 She had enough. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Questioner 1 And is it just teleportation-- *interrupted* Brandon Sanderson Let's say... Jasnah's figured out some things that other's haven't figured out, for one thing. *brief interruption* And, let's say that. But also, there's a little scene from it I wrote from her viewpoint just to know what was happening that's never going in the books. If you Google "Jasnah deleted scene Words of Radiance" you can read it. It talks about how she did what she did. Questioner 2 Oh good. Brandon Sanderson So that is out there. Just-- It was my reference for writing the scene. But-- One of her powers is called Elsecalling, which is basically popping in and out of Shadesmar more easily. It's hard for everyone else to do that. Questioner 2 My other question is, so when Shallan was on the land she was in the sea in SHadesmar. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner 2 Is it exactly opposite? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it's mirrored... Um... It's mirrored, yeah. Questioner 2 So any land is on sea. So she would have actually landed on land on the ocean. Brandon Sanderson Yeah... so... yes... Questioner 1 She kind of *inaudible* Questioner 2 Well that's, no for Jasnah that's... *interrupted* Brandon Sanderson Oh yeah yeah, Jasnah... In that scene where you see? She pops out in Shadesmar on the land. Questioner 2 So, was the scene at the end right as soon as that happened? Brandon Sanderson What the-- no, no, no. She spent months trying to get back out. Questioner 2 Oh, because she doesn't have the power to get back out. Brandon Sanderson Much harder to get back out. Questioner 1 *inaudible* trying to get back out, because she doesn't have any more Stormlight. Brandon Sanderson Yep. Much harder to get back out than it is to get back in even if you have Stormlight, and she is out of Stormlight, so... Footnote: Questioner mistakenly said "Cognitive Realm" in the first line. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016)

Adolin's profession is highprince. Highprinces rule countries. Not all highprinces fight from the front. Dalinar is actually seen as unusual in that regard. Dalinar stepped back because that is what Alethkar needed him to do. Dalinar bashing faces in is not going to bring together the coalition. He became what the world needed him to become. I responded to what Calderis said. You joined that response. Calderis was stating that unless Adolin got powers, he would end up irrelevant, or dead. That is what I am arguing against. In your last post you even confirmed that that was what he said. If you are not saying that, then why did you join that line of conversation? Calderis made it an either or situation. My point is if it is an either or situation, then why is Shallan and Jasnah on the front lines. It does not matter if they poke someone with a stick. They are scholars on the front lines fighting and being effective. Just like a "warrior" can be effective in an administrative capacity like Dalinar. it does not intrinsically mean death for Adolin. And I will repeat I disagree with the either or statement that Adolin must fight, or he will be irrelevant/dead. That is what I am discussing. So what are you discussing if you agree with me?

There are plenty of threads across the 17th shard referencing how Adolin sees himself as a duelist. Not a soldier, not a hunter. As a duelist. Two men on equal footing, pitting skill one on one is where Adolin feels alive. Not on the battlefield. But your argument was because Adolin is good with the blade, he should be on the front lines. The radiants need fighters. Dalinar is an amazing fighter with the blade. He should be on the front lines. But he is not. So why should that be limited to Dalinar? So then why isn't Dalinar fighting on the front lines? So Fen's son doesn't count? The thaylen shardbearer doesn't count? Kadash doesn't count? All of Dalinar's officers don't count? If the only requirement for being on a battlefield is being good with a blade, why don't any of those people count? If the only thing a person can do during a desolation is fight, and the only way to survive fighting during a desolation is powers, then why don't any of those people get powers? My point is not that Adolin wouldn't get powers, or wouldn't be on the battlefield. My point is that is not only one of two possibilities, the other being death. Now you are getting into semantics. Shallan had a blade, and was on the front lines fighting enemies. Shallan is a "scholar". Not a "warrior". And again, he sees his role as duelist, not warrior. And there is a difference. And also once again, even if he did see himself as a warrior, as per Dalinar, that does not preclude him from still having that warrior spirit, but being a general and tactician. No where in the books did Adolin say the reason he did not want to become king was because he wouldn't get to fight. Can you point me to where that is?

Brandon in WoB references that scene for what happened to Jasnah when she popped out of the ship. It is canon. Can you please post so I know what you are referring to?

You said he was a warrior. He is not a warrior. He is a duelist. There is a difference. And I think that is a false equivalency. Adolin is not only a combatant, and is not defined solely by that. Otherwise why is Dalinar leading? He is a warrior. He was defined by his capacity to fight. The man's face is all messed up from all the fights he has been in. So is the same dichotomy applied to him? He has to be upfront on the battle field to be effective? That disregards his tactical genius, and his actions as a politician. I take issue with artificially creating an either or situation, and then stating that proves something. That Adolin can only be effective in combat. People can only be effective in a Desolation in combat. People are only effective in a desolation in combat if they have powers. Therefore Adolin must get powers or he will be ineffective in a desolation. It is like saying there are 10 drinks on the table. The only drink that is good is coca cola and water. Adolin wouldn't drink something that is flat, so he can only drink coca cola. So anyone that says he would drink gatorade wouldn't happen. For me, it is not so binary. By that argument there are any number of people who can fight just as well, if not better than Adolin. They should bond a spren then. (and there most definitely are). That forgets the uniqueness of each spren and their reason for bonding. That forgets the situations the characters are put in. That forgets the character him or herself. It breaks down to Adolin has a sword and he is good at swinging it, so he has to be on the battlefield. And if he has to be on the battlefield, then he has to have powers otherwise he will die. I do not believe it is so cut and dry. You and Calderis as I said are more than free to prefer Adolin on the battlefield, but that does not intrinsically mean that he will fail as a leader, and certainly does not intrinsically mean he has to have powers to be successful. Dalinar, a blood thirsty warrior, is now a leader and a politician. Why doesn't he have to be on the front lines? Why doesn't he have to have the most lethal surges? Why is he solving problems with the pen instead of the sword? If it has to be such a cut and dry dichotomy, then why is Dalinar the biggest exception to the rule? Or how about Shallan, a scholar is suddenly on the front lines? Or Jasnah? I do not believe it has to be one way or no way. TLDR: People can believe Adolin would work better without powers, and he not be sidelined or killed because of it. And people thinking Adolin would work better without powers takes nothing from those who thinks he would work better with powers.

He enjoys dueling, not fighting. There is a difference. Again, you and Calderis are perfectly entitled to believe Adolin would be better suited on the front lines of a battlefield, but I still maintain it is a false equivalency to state that it is either that or death. We have seen him on numerous occasions work on infrastructure and be very effective and happy doing so. We have seen him work tactically from behind and be fine with it just as much as up front. We have seen him work with his subjects, and accomplish clandestine and political goals. So I do not think that Adolin being unpowered but effective should be dismissed as impossible.

Because it is in the deleted scene I just referenced. Brandon references it when asked what happened to Jasnah. But we have not seen a willshaper use transportation to say whether they even do or do not have a problem. I agree.

But why would the ruler of a princedom be seen as someone without responsibilities? What about his responsibilities to his princedom would lead Adolin to want to travel the worlds? What about the greater Cosmere would cause Adolin to want to leave his family and everything he knows? Again just going by your criteria, I do not see it. Or correction, I do not see it as more likely than Jasnah. And whoever is sent needs to be able to travel and survive whatever alien worlds, people or rigors that will happen. If you are saying the rationale is a governing body is putting together a team to explore other planets, then although a scientist makes sense, an elderly one that has difficulty traveling, to me would not. Based on your criteria yes. But like I said in the earlier post, I think there are far too many variables to discount anyone. So it could be Adolin. He and Shallan could get divorced, and he decide he wants to be anywhere but Roshar. Then hoists the princedom onto Renarin, and joins Vivienna in traveling. Rysn could become a radiant, heal her legs, and travel. Storms, we know Felt is a world hopper and the last time we saw him, was as a spy master. What would make someone like that world hop? Personally I do not think he cares about the fame. He more cares about the money his stories get him. But he can be read in various ways.

You are totally entitled to feel that way about the character, but personally I feel that is a false equivalency. Adolin was plenty effective running the military when Dalinar was contemplating retirement, and when Adolin was managing the Alethi occupation of Urithiru. You can certainly prefer to see Adolin on the battleground, and as my earlier theory shows, I believe Adolin will become a radiant, but that does not preclude Adolin from being an effective ruler without powers. Otherwise are you saying Fen, Gawx, and so on need to get powers or they are going to die?

Thank you! I am fine with this. It could be the nightwatcher bondsmith, or the sibling bondsmith. I could see that. Even healing via bondsmith could leave "scar tissue" resulting in the bond working differently than normal. That is why I think there would then be almost like a "class" lead by Adolin regarding bonding the shardblade, while researchers looked into what type of shardblade it may be. Then they would have people bond with the blades that seem to coincide. My only problem with this is Adolin has no experience whatsoever with skating (to our knowledge). So I personally couldn't see him showing up Lift so early. My one thing is, it is mentioned that there is a long standing tradition to respecting and caring for your blade. So I do not think the way Adolin treats Maya (before he found out what she really was) is unique. But that is my own reading, and I totally acknowledge it can be read differently. I could see that happening. Would also make an awesome moment for Renarin and Adolin. Adolin was always looking out for Renarin, now Renarin would be looking out for Adolin. I respect your opinion. I could see what you said happening. Personally I think what Adolin has been doing is a tradition regarding Shardblades passed down through the ages. Some pay lip service, some do not do it at all, and still some do hold to the traditions (like Adolin). The reason for myself nothing came of it in the past was: 1. no one was a radiant to hear it sound different than the others (Dalinar) 2. no one was around when the realms were brought closer together to notice a difference (when the realms were brought together) 3. there hasn't been a radiant bondsmith in centuries so there wasn't the ability to fix the shardblade the rest of the way before the wielder died. So in that light, with the new knowledge, I could see it then expanding to the rest of the shardblades and be a means to try and heal the wounds of the past that occurred with the recreance. But like I said, I could totally see it being a specific circumstance as well. Well I mentioned in another thread that for myself at least, the sheer number of years, with the sheer potential number of wielders, with the number of potential shardblades, I would imagine in the past, considering the tradition of respecting your shardblade, someone other than Adolin would have also treated their blade the same way as Adolin. Just in Adolin's case, other things that have not occurred in the past, have been, to facilitate the revival. I do not feel that is what my theory is saying. The individual still needs to bond the blade, and be a match to the blade. The individual has to genuinely live the ideals, and treat the blade with respect. Then once that bond has strengthened, then it can be bridged with the help of a Bondsmith. It is a process that takes time, but I believe can be accomplished by others. Can you point me to the scene? Out of curiosity I checked, and the only healing I saw was Renarin healing Adolin briefly. I think that would be cool too! I agree. My one comment to this, is it assumes that usefulness during the desolation is purely focused on physical power. There can be plenty of "normies" that are brilliant tacticians without bonding spren and be incredibly important to the war effort. Adolin is a highprince, and with that yes it includes leading the military, but also leading the infrastructure. Even being a radiant does not necessarily mean you will be in combat. Dalinar is taking the role of leader/politician over upfront fighter. His abilities aid this, but are not necessarily required to be effective. So I do not think it is fair to break it down into just two possibilities: power or nothing. Adolin to me can be plenty relevant with or without powers.

There are two ways to interact with the cognitive realm: 1. Transformation/Soulcasting - Create an "investiture bubble" that looks, speaks and everything like you in the cognitive realm. You can interact with beings in the cognitive realm, but your physical body still stands in the physical realm. Your physical body can still be attacked in the physical realm, and your investiture self can be attacked in the cognitive realm. When you end the effect, your investiture self pops and goes away 2. Transportation/Perpendicularity - You puncture a hole between realms and pass through. You are fully, physically in the cognitive realm. Nothing of "you" is still standing in the physical. You fully transferred to the cognitive. Below is the corresponding WoB that explains: Bromo_Sapien When somebody travels into the Cognitive Realm, what happens to their physical self? To their body? Like Elsecalling or through a Shardpool? Brandon Sanderson Well it depends on the way they’re doing it. The two ways you’ve mentioned transport the physical body. It’s actually creating a rift and slipping them through. But there are other ways that you kind of peek in, where your body’s saying it’s a little more astral projection-y in those cases. Bromo_Sapien So their physical self would also be in the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Bromo_Sapien Okay. Brandon Sanderson Which is weird. Bromo_Sapien As opposed to somebody like Kelsier who died and no longer has a physical self. Brandon Sanderson Yes, right. Or when Shallan is Soulcasting and peeking in, and things like this. It can still be dangerous, because what’s happening is that little soul bubble there that’s manifesting into a version of your soul and then things can get at it in different ways and stuff. So... But yes, going in physically means you just pop between realms, and yeah, yeah… Bromo_Sapien And when they leave the Cognitive Realm their Physical self just leaves the Cognitive Realm the same... Brandon Sanderson Yep, mhm, yep. Bromo_Sapien Perfect. Brandon Sanderson Basically you’re transferring into Investiture and popping out of Investiture, so... Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

To put the information we have provided in order: 1. Jasnah only peers into the cognitive realm via soulcasting in Way of Kings 2. Jasnah realizes Shallan can soulcast and assumes she is an elsecaller as well in Way of Kings 3. (in the background at some point, Jasnah begs Ivory to show her how to fully transition via transportation but he will not) 4. Jasnah realizes Shallan is a lightweaver in Way of Kings 5. Assassins try to kill Jasnah in Words of Radiance 6. Ivory pulls Jasnah into the cognitive realm with transportation. Jasnah mentions how she has been asking him for this for ages, and only now he does it when her life was in danger and now she cannot help the people on the ship. This was in Words of Radiance. 7. All we see in the entirety of Way of Kings and Words of Radiance is Shallan use soulcasting to peer into the cogntive realm, but not fully transition. 8. Oathbringer Shallan goes to use the oathgate with her shardblade like any other radiant can do. Sja-anat says Odium wants her to kill them, but she will try to keep them safe. Instead of them teleporting, or dying, she sends them to the cogntive realm to prove she wants to ally with them. 9. Shallan and Co travel in the cognitive realm. They arrive at the Thaylenah gate. Shallan cannot transfer them back. She cannot convince the oathgate to let them through. 10. Dalinar opens up a perpendicularity. A perpendicularity punctures all three realms and allows travel between them. Shallan and Co use Dalinar's perpendicularity. 11. Jasnah and Shallan run into each other during the battle. At this point in the Stormlight Archive over all Shallan has not once under her own power transferred fully to the cogntive realm. Jasnah already has. When discussing soulcasting, Jasnah says whereas once she thought Shallan could transfer fully, now she realizes Shallan cannot. That even though Shallan can only peer into the cognitive realm with an investiture bubble, it is still very dangerous. That is the order that I know of. That is why I believe Elsecallers can peer into the cognitive realm and fully transfer while lightweavers can only peer in, and willshapers can only transfer fully. While Lightweavers and Willshapers only get one each, Elsecallers get both.

Then your interpretation is that lightweavers cannot fully transition to the cognitive realm because the full quote is jasnah teaching shallan soulcasting. Jasnah fully transfers via transportation (in words of radiance, prior to this quote which is in oathbringer), not transformation. Shallan only has access to transformation. So if you are saying you interpret jasnah to say that via soulcasting it is not possible to fully transition to the cognitive side then you are saying what I said from the beginning. With transformation only, you can only "astral project ". You cannot fully transition. So lightweavers cannot fully transition. Only elsecallers and willshapers “Come,” Jasnah said, pulling Veil back to the wall, where steps grew from the stone itself. “Soulcast?” Shallan asked. “Yes.” Jasnah stepped onto the first, but Shallan didn’t follow. “We shouldn’t have ignored this,” Radiant said. “We should have practiced this.” She slipped—for a moment—into viewing Shadesmar. Beads rolled and surged beneath her. “Not too far,” Jasnah warned. “You can’t bring your physical self into the realm, as I once assumed you could, but there are things here that can feast upon your mind.” “If I want to Soulcast the air. How?” “Avoid air until you practice further,” Jasnah said. “It is convenient, but difficult to control. Why don’t you try to turn some stone into oil, as I did? We can fire it as we climb the steps, and further impede the enemy.”

Could you elaborate? Because it sounds like you are saying because Jasnah the elsecaller that has transportation and we have seen transfer to the cognitive fully and physically has done so, then Shallan, a lightweaver with soulcasting only has done so. And to be clear, once more full transfer of your entire body. Not the investiture bubble/astral travel, which leaves the body in the physical realm. Is that what you are saying?

When Shallan used the oathgate, Sja-anat's sent her to the cognitive realm. When Kaladin and Co reached Thaylenah, they all asked Shallan to transfer them again. She could not. Dalinar opened a perpendicularity that they used to transfer. In both situations Shallan was not the one causing them to transition. An outside force did. She just used that force. Any transition was completely unconnected to her soulcasting that she gets from being a lightweaver. Where in Oathbringer, when using her own powers, did she completely physically transfer to the cognitive realm and back? Because I cannot recall a single time.

Thank you! Thank you!