Pathfinder

Sorry to double post, but I just had to point out when Szeth fought Adolin and Dalinar, he sent another highprice hiiiiiiigh into the skyyyyyy till he dropped and went CRUNCH. Also a lot of bridgemen went after him and he killed them. Unless I am misunderstanding the time line you are referencing. edit: if instead of referencing the climatic battle, you instead are referencing the assassination attempt on Elhokar, Szeth did kill one of the two bridgemen guarding him. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 442083632 bytes) in Unknown on line 0

Oh boy, Got a lot to catch up on and its only been a few minutes lol. @Aether, the posts of Moogle and WeiryWriter hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of debates on the meaning of the alignments, but since we all are discussing what we think honor is, I thought it would be fun to see how we would see it applied to that system. @Moogle: That is my point, I am equating his obsessive hold to a law as a state of unchanging "truth" as the same as a bully intimidating KidA. I don't see either action as honorable, merely one authority forced onto another. Hopefully I did not write that in such a way to insult your belief in it. You make very cogent points and I do see where you are coming from, I just disagree. I do not see giving up the shardblade and abilities as suicidal. I understood based on the example you gave, my interpretation would be, Szeth meets a person with a normal sword and no magic. Szeth then honorably levels the playing field by picking up a normal sword, and does not use his magic. If I look you in the face and you (unarmed or with just a sword) see me as I unload an AK47 at you, is that more honorable than doing it with your back turned? I am still using something that gives you a VERY negligible chance of survival. That does not strike me as honorable. Now sorry to split a already split hair, but you stated when did Szeth THINK the stone shamans were wrong. You never stated he has to believe it for certain. Hoser did prove rather succinctly that he at least briefly thought the stone shamans could be wrong. As you say yourself, It takes Taravangian to assure him otherwise. I do lean towards neutral good for Kal, cause like you said, when he feels a law is unjust, he will disobey it to protect someone. Szeth pretty much exemplifies someone who would hold the literal word of the law above all else no matter what.

@Aether LOL, yeah that might be a bit awwwwkkkkwwwwaaaarrrddddd @Moogle No worries, I do tend to go on long pedantic rambles that blur my point at times lol. I understand where you are coming from but I still believe my earlier post addresses this, as shown below: "It doesn't matter whether he wants to or not. If a bully intimidates kidA to beat up kidB, is it honorable because deep down kidA doesn't want to? What matters is he does it anyway. He can feel horrible, and think in his head "well the teacher is going to catch me and stop me from hurting him too badly, and I am going to get detention, so I will get what I deserve" doesn't change that he still gave up his own will to someone else's authority. That he didn't challenge that authority that he inherently knew was wrong, and took the cowards way out. He did it cause he was "told to"." Also I do not consider him fighting face to face people who he stated himself on numerious occasions in his internal monologues people who possessed no where near his power. If he instead eshewed his shardblade and abilities when fighting those without either that would be different. Yes there are moments where he does not use his full abilities, but again it is stated from his very internal monologue lips that he does so when he doesn't need to to accomplish his goals. The moment he needs to, he uses them fully. edit @ Aether All excellent points and I whole heartily agree that Brandon probably did this all on purpose. It has been said afterall, though I forget where that the Skybreakers and the Windrunners didn't like each other. It could be for this exact reason. edit2: oh oh! to take this further and apply dungeons and dragons alignment, I would say Szeth is Lawful Neutral, while Kaladin is Neutral Good. Thoughts?

So the causal chain I see goes like this. He states radiants are returning, Stone Shamans say no he is wrong. They make him truthless which exiles him from their land. I believe all warriors from that land have oath stones, but I digress. His oathstone finds its way into the hands of individuals that order him to kill innocent people. He knows killing innocent people is wrong, but he does it because the individuals have his oathstone, because the Shin cast him out as Truthless because they stated he was wrong about the return of the Radiants. Szeth goes insane at the thought that the Radiants have in fact returned, because then he would not have been cast out, thereby not have gotten his oath stone in the hands of the individuals who then ordered him to kill people against what he knew in his heart to be wrong. I believe, (not to put words in your mouth Moogle), you thought I meant he knew the Stone Shamans were wrong about the Radiants in his heart. I mean he knew it was wrong to kill these people despite the law system of his people set up indirectly ordering him to do so. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 496249136 bytes) in Unknown on line 0

It doesn't matter whether he wants to or not. If a bully intimidates kidA to beat up kidB, is it honorable because deep down kidA doesn't want to? What matters is he does it anyway. He can feel horrible, and think in his head "well the teacher is going to catch me and stop me from hurting him too badly, and I am going to get detention, so I will get what I deserve" doesn't change that he still gave up his own will to someone else's authority. That he didn't challenge that authority that he inherently knew was wrong, and took the cowards way out. He did it cause he was "told to".

I disagreed. Kaladin nearly committed suicide, and all the bridgemen gave up to a life of hell everyday for their crimes. It is easy to say "Hey everything is horrible, and always will be. All I can do is repeat the same thing again and again". What is hard is breaking out of that cycle and change like Kaladin did. Tie a baby elephant to a stake, and years later even when it is massive, it will still think the stake has a hold over it. Again that is not honor, nor courage, that is just acceptance of "ah well that is how it is". People will accept torture, pain, and agony because it is familiar over the unknown chance of change. For many it is better to feel hopeless, than to hope and have that hope crushed. Szeth in my opinion took the easy way out, he gave in to his madness, surrendered to a law he knew was wrong, and excused himself from his actions because of a possibility of punishment in the future. It is not honorable to say that it is ok that I kill 10 innocent because one day when I am caught and stopped, I will get the electric chair. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 479988016 bytes) in Unknown on line 0

Thank you for making these! Excellent work!

Could he be a willshaper with his own sort of spren? It has been stated they are random and love adventure. Him going headfirst at a chasmfield could count lol.

Then in that case I will have to respectfully disagree. Native Americans were no where near the technological level of Conquistadors, nor Columbus's expedition, but that didn't stop them from eventually getting their hands on guns and learning to use them. Now the native americans were practically wiped out, but my point is you do not need a full understanding of a technology in order to employ it. Which is why i feel the chronology IS important. Why should we assume all worldhoppers are benevolent? In the years that passed from Elantris to Alloy of Law, someone from Sel (like what Galladon did), could have worldhopped to Scadrial. By the time we reach the WoK's time line, we have numerious worldhoppers. One hinted by Brandon is a kandra. So I still think there is nothing saying that someone from another world with a greater understanding of investiture, couldn't have traveled to Scadrial, taught someone how to, and thereby now the Set holds that level of knowledge. Hell the journal Marasi is given could be the cypher for exactly that. Again, I don't know why but I feel this is very unlikely, and I doubt this is the direction that trilogy will go, but what I AM saying is it IS possible.

When does Emperor's Soul take place in reference to Elantris? I looked up this thread shown below, and it seems to indicate that Elantris took place before Mistborn the original trilogy as well as WoK. If the Emporer's Soul is near Elantris in chronology, then I still think it is possible in the specific context at this specific time in the Cosmere history. If it isn't, then I stand corrected and upvote to you . http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1092-a-comprehensive-timeline/

Not to nitpick, but requiring "jury rigging" doesn't mean it is impossible, just difficult or improbable. And again just because we don't know something is possible, doesn't inherently make it impossible. Sanderson has said all magic systems are possible to be powered by others, just as you said it requires jury rigging. Hoid has shown this to be true. So has Galladon. If travel was was impossible from Sel, then explain him.

True there is no evidence that they HAVE forging, but there is also no evidence that they DON'T lol. It is a huge stretch, but has anyone asked Brandon if forging has been seen on other worlds? I know he has mentioned hemalurgy is employed on other worlds, and he has also mentioned there would be mixing of abilities: So although I am with you Swimmingly that it is unlikely, it isn't impossible. But I believe Maipon is on the same world as Elantris, and if you reference by above spoiler, worldhopping has already occured from that location, so I do not believe that would be difficult. Regarding the order of writing, true AoL came out prior to Emporer's Soul, but in another case: So the more I type this, the more I see it could be at least a possibility.

Hmmm, that is a shame, cause if that is the case, then that could possibly explain what the Set is doing. They pick women descended from the ancient mistborn so their causal history is more in line, and forge them till the ancestry is stronger than it was prior to the forging. They then just add in a pregnancy from the forgery, have the women give birth to the child, and insta-mistborn is the result. Then again, if they were to do what I mentioned above, and then had someone impregnate them while forged, could the child be the product of the forged version? Even if the person eventually reverts back?

I don't know too much about how forgery functions, so here is a question if anyone can assist. If theoretically a woman forged herself so that based on her past, she would end up being pregnant in the present. Would that work, and would the baby survive? It would be in a way, an immaculate conception lol. According to HER past, she was impregnated by an individual, but since soulforging only affects the person being forged (is that correct?), then the individual in reality never got her pregnant. So can she actually have a baby as result?

Yeah, I am far from the authority on the Sanderson cosmere, so just in case, I did some googling, and there are assumptions that it could be done in the other direction, which makes sense. Also one forum, CrazyRioter stated that Brandon said it was possible to use feruchemy to enhance allomancy, we just haven't seen it done yet. So I apologize for spreading incorrect information. Though in response to Swimmingly, I thought the reason his soothing was so strong was because he had a bead of lesurium that gave him his powers, making all his allomantic abilities incredibly strong. That coupled with his hemelurgic spikes that amplified even that, then he could do soothing that strong without compounding. But again, that is my understanding. I was wrong already once today, lets not try for two lol

Ok, so I have been thinking on this, and my theory is the size of the bubble is left unaffected, but the amount that time is affected is increased. In Alloy of Law it is stated that the size of the bubble for sliders is static. If the size of the bubble could be affected by dularium or compounding, then a base slider should be able to alter the size of the bubble by flaring the metal. In all the combat situations Wayne is in, he doesn't attempt this even once, despite all the times it would have benefited him. Secondly I don't think compounding is applicable. Compounding works by storing a feruchemal attribute in a metal. You then burn the metal for the feruchemal attribute getting the compounded effect. If you burn the same metal, but for the allomantic effect, you don't receive any compounded increase. The compound only enhances the feruchemal attribute. Sliding is allomancy, so no compound. (Please correct me if i have compounding wrong, but I am pretty sure this is how it functions)

This is admittedly conjecture on my part, but I think it works like this: Conflux's powers were energy based. He could charge/fuel/power anything electrical or energy based. He could then GIFT that ability to someone else. So theoretically Conflux could get into a suit of power armor, and use it powering it directly from himself, or power the battery, and then have the suit work on that. When he gifts his abilities, then someone else, they could then do that. Prof I think works differently. I think Prof gifts everyone a certain amount of his power, and the items are just a smoke screen. I think David could have used the tensor ability all along, even without the gloves because its not the gloves that are gifted the power, its the person. We never actually see Megan "use" the jackets (correct me if I am wrong but even on the motorcycle, she took MUCH less damage than David and that could be attributed to her being an epic). So in summation, she could use power armor with a batter that was charged by Conflux, but could not use the tensors, harmsway, and the jackets because there wasn't actually any abilities in them to begin with. The gifts were given to the people.

I have a feeling a lot Rashek's plans started that way "it would be harsh but reasonable...." lol. I do see your points swimmingly and they are excellent ones at that. In fact whats great about them is it would make a great plot of a book. A corrupt system could easily be forged within it. A politician or police commisioner pays off or manipulates records to get undesirables (bums, rebels, protestors) with powers framed for capital crimes. Set them up to be executed hemalurgically, and then give the spikes to trusted agents in the system. Then when the time is ripe, take over with you hemalurgic enhanced army and anyone with abilities able to stop you are already dead "legally".

You could make a mini game out of emotional allomancy. Like as you said have a meter, but you have to balance how much you riot or soothe with the responses you give. Just would need to be careful the mini game doesn't become pointless (certain convos in deus ex the human revolution) or repetitive (the hacking in the first bioshock)

LOL so I just realized you all meant shardbearer as in preservation, ruin, etc. I thought shardbearer as in armor and sword from stormlight archive. in that case i would have to say it would depend on the shard. yeah being preservation means a ton of power, but at the same time you are very limited by what you can do with it.

Yep that is the one! Thanks for that!

LOL that is kind of ironic. That potentially the best AND the worst to be are the same exact being, just in different time frames. upvote away!

@Swimmingly, you mean only the SWAT part of that post right? I have heard that part, but not using hemalurgic spikes on criminals to give the SWAT team powers. In my opinion that would be a pretty twisted modern society if they did that lol. But I guess it is all subjective.

One of the things I love about Brandon Sanderson's books is if you think about it (maybe unknowingly), he made the perfect universe to be an atheist in. Every "god", is actually a fallible individual given tons of power. In fact we know very little about the nature of Adonalsium. As far as we know, it could have been the product of a very technologically advance race, that backfired and shattered. I forgot the philosopher's name, but it was once posited that technology could become so advance that it becomes indistinguishable from magic. So although unlikely given Brandon's own personality, there could very well be no diety (in the classical term) in the cosmere at all.

Elantians were viewed as gods before everything fell apart, I would argue they are ahead of all of them. They have all the abilities of the returned (immortal, peak physical condition that never runs out, etc), They have powers that theoretically could rival mistborn (considering they can heal themselves, blast enemies, teleport, and who knows what else), and if we are referring to shardbearers and not knight radiants, then again I think Elantians win out. If we are talking SURGEBINDERS then that is a different story