kaellok

Ever had gyoza before? I pronounce it the same way, but with yorn instead of yoza.

Snipped out the bit between ...'s. I agree completely with what you have said here. Also mostly agree with your second post. In my mind, what truly affected the Bond that Kaladin had with Syl, though, wasn't that he had sworn two conflicting oaths (to both protect Elhokar and help see him killed), but that he knowingly acted in a wrong way for one of those promises. He knew that assassinating Elhokar was the wrong thing to do; that's why he was so broody and angsty over it, why so much time was spent wrestling with the decision, so much time spent trying to rationalize and justify it. In matters of right and wrong, when you're spending that much time trying to convince yourself that something is right, then it's obviously wrong. Syl herself said that she was only as dead "as your oaths were." When he stood up to protect Elhokar, she came back. He wasn't suddenly fulfilling both of his promises, only the one that was the right thing to do. First, Radiants are not good people by definition. They are all Honorable, with different focus on what that actually means, but honorable has never meant 'good' as we understand it today. Second, it's possible to agonize over decisions, that you know are right, just because they're hard. I imagine that putting yourself directly in harm's way, with a strong chance of getting killed, just to protect some cremling who wants nothing more than to see you die would get pretty old. Also, we only know that the Bond slippage/breakage works that specific way for Windrunners. How would the situation be different for Lightweavers, that rely upon spoken truths, rather than promises made? So, your focus is upon the Order that is known for having the most discerning of spren in regards to the character of humans that they Bond with--meaning that Windrunners are already the least likely to act in the ways that you describe.

No no, don't be sorry. Just fun to see weird, fringe theories that I like referenced (and I'm not sure anymore if it was mine originally or not.)

Wait! I thought i was the only one who believed that! Or did i steal it from you, but forgot? I do also like LabRat's theory, tho. Both are so interesting, and such a spren deserves something a bit crazy and different.

Really all the Stormfather says is that he has to send the visions--sending them to candidates for Bondsmithing, or even Gavilar, is just our interpretation (unless there's WoB out there that adds clarity that I'm not aware of.) Remember that one really nice day/bright light vision-type thing that Dalinar has near the end of WoR, and how the Stormfather says that he wasn't responsible? That means that Gavilar's visions could be entirely different, and from a different source, than what Dalinar got. Answers in order! Not every Radiant broke their Oaths; we know, for instance, that an entire Order didn't. We don't know for sure that the Stormfather was Bonded before. And the Stormfather is similar, and yet very different, from other spren; he even describes himself as the spren of the Almighty, but hesitates on the word. It's clear that he has something else going on, cosmerically. (Think how the Rosharans are going to see Nightblood as a Shardblade. The two are similar enough that that's a good enough explanation for them, but we know there's something different happening.) The Stormfather isn't just the highstorm spren, he's the largest remnant of an active god. Although the rules apply to him, we don't know what they actually are--just what they seem to be. So, I guess I have a whole lot of unhelpful answers, and I'm using a lot of words to say them. Clearly the Stormfather's mind wasn't affected by the recreance, even if his attitude was. But we don't know, for sure, why that may be. I'd be a little bit interested to know if a spren can kill a Radiant they're bonded to, and if so, what would happen. In such a case, perhaps the Stormfather saw what was happening, and acted before they could, in order to preserve himself.

[quote name="king of nowhere" post="284833" Also keep in mind that in the west a highstorm will carry rocks with it, but in shinovar there aren't many rocks for the storm to toss about, and dirt does not hurt. at most you can get hit by a tree branch, which is still much softer than a stone. At 50 mph, dirt most definitely hurts. And typical hurricanes have wind speeds that fast, or more, so that's still a danger. If it were sand, unprotected skin could be flayed from your body, so it's not the worst that could happen. That said, being completely unprepared might still be better for them than being WRONGLY prepared, like the other nations will be. I think that there will be a sizable number left, at least enough to play a significant role in the conflict that just began in earnest.

I love characters and interesting worlds. All of my suggestions below have them in spades. Seanan McGuire -- writes urban fantasy. Think Jim Butcher, but more towards faerie point of view. First book in the series, while decent, seems to spend an awful lot of time with red herrings, introductions, etc. What I think of as "the origin story problem." Too much time setting up, not enough on the meat of the matter. Thankfully books 2+ don't suffer from this, and each one is generally better written than those before it. Book 1 ties into book 8 in several significant, meaningful ways as the long and epic arcs start coming together in astounding ways. Mira Grant -- read Feed, Deadline, and Blackout. Not fantasy, unless you count post-zombie apocalypse as fantasy. 3 of the best books i've ever read in my life. Note: I'm not a fan of the whole zombie thing. This is the whole zombie thing. These books are masterfully written. Read them. Note: Don't read them, especially Feed, if you have things you need to do that day or the next day. I mean, you can if you want. I read them when I was working a 60 hour week, plus had school. I got around 7 hours of sleep that week. I also cried, quite a bit. I was not expecting any of that. A year later, I re-read them, and they affected me just as strongly, which is absurdly unheard of for me. Also, she's technically Seanan McGuire. Michelle West / Michelle Sagara -- writes epic fantasy as Michelle West, less-epic but still fantasy as Michelle Sagara. Amazing characters and characterization. The West novels can run a bit slow, and absolutely have the pseudo-fairy tale feel that Robin Hobb's novels have. Many points of view, though. I love that all of the characters are so unique and diverse and different--except for ones that are so very similar on purpose and for actual reasons. The Sagara novels are faster and easier reads, following one POV, in an incredible world and setting. I enjoy everything she's ever written. Emma Bull -- War for the Oaks is a great work of fantasy. Her other books are more sci-fi then fantasy, but in general tends to blend things together. Finder is one of my favorite novels of all time--and I can't tell you much about it without spoilers. Her music is pretty damnation good, too. Sadly, she's only written 6 or 7 novels total, and most of them in the 80s and 90s. Still, all are fantastic reads if you can find them. Patricia C. Wrede -- Everything she's ever written is great. I'm a particular fan of Mairelon the Magician and The Magician's Ward duology, a Regency England set of books where magic is real. Jane Yolen -- Everything she's ever written is amazing. Seriously. She's been writing for a very long time, and across a wide number of genres. Elizabeth Moon -- The Deed of Paksenarrion series was my gold-standard for fantasy; still is, really. I read it before I read Tolkien, and his work suffered by its contrast. She has written a few works to supplement this series that are good, but not to the same degree. Her Sci Fi is also all truly great, but may not be what you're after. Kristen Britain -- Someone mentioned earlier. Very enjoyable on first read-through, but suffers on re-reading. Still, The Green Rider should be read, no excuses. Kim Harrison -- Fun urban fantasy. More romance-oriented than anything else I've mentioned. Anne Bishop -- Her The Others series is, for some reason, incredibly gripping to me. I read book 1 in one sitting, and then a couple months later did the same for book 2. I haven't read book 3 yet, but it's on my list. Very different from the Black Jewels series, if you've read those. Patricia Briggs -- Best known for her urban fantasy series, I like her 'pure' fantasy stuff much better. When Demons Walk is a great work of fantasy, as is The Hob's Bargain. Raven's Shadow and Raven's Strike are also quite good. Melanie Rawn -- She's written two books that are great and wonderful and I love dearly. Unfortunately, they are books 1 and 2 of a trilogy, and there is no book 3. Nor is there likely to ever be one. She had a contract to write it, but was unable to do so--and has been unable to finish it in the last 18 years (no lie; book 2 was copyrighted 1997. I just looked.) There is a horrible, dreadful cliffhanger with no real sense of closure at the end of either of the books. Still, they are very good, so if you hate yourself, check out The Ruins of Ambrai and The Mageborn Traitor. If you're like me, you'll give them as gifts to people who love to read, but you don't really like (say, in an office Christmas gift exchange.) Her other works are significantly worse in every way, and not nearly as enjoyable; I would generally suggest avoiding them. Those are just the authors that I have on my bookshelf; I have more packed away in boxes. There are plenty of great female fantasy authors out there, and have been there for decades. New ones join their ranks all the time.

Saw this topic, came here to say this. Very few things that anyone has written, ever, (that I have read) have resonated as strongly and truthfully as those few sentences. The entire chasm scene was great, and imo, some of Sanderson's best work. I have read the scene many times more than I have read the novel itself. It's actually a pretty amazing work, because the chasm scene works well as an isolated short story, as well as fitting an integral part of the overal novel, and also a section of it that you can cut off entirely and use as a very effective piece of flash fic. It is also, perhaps, most striking to me because Kaladin really, really annoys me in WoR, but the chasm scene would only be substantially weaker without him, if it were a different character (although I think that Shallan/Lopen in the chasm would have been wondrous in a completely different way.)

Let's all try to remain constructive with our posts. This is, after all, a topic that can devolve rather swiftly if not treated respectfully. Just because you disagree with someone's opinions or feelings or thoughts doesn't mean they are wrong (at least in this context). This is intended to be a safe place to air grievances against fictional characters, after all

I wonder if the Heightenings are really a reflection of what happens with concentrations of Investiture in a person, perhaps specific to the way the magic system expresses itself. Healing faster/being more durable is common throughout, but there's also a good bit of fighting/adventure/etc. that we see, so it'd make sense for us to see more of that. Maybe perfect pitch is possible while holding in a certain amount of Stormlight, or burning the right metal. Still, for Hoid, I think that it's because he gathered an amount of Breath needed for his plans, whatever they may be. And however such use of magic would make him feel.

I disagree, but completely understand where you're coming from. So upvote! I'm just not a very nice, or kind, person (even though I do my best to act that way, just because it's easier and I am, at heart, quite lazy) and so I don't see myself acting much differently than Shallan did in those circumstances. Definitely not the way nice/kind/good people are typically expected to act, though.

"The magic of the ancient days can become ours again. " Speaks pretty heavily against this being a spren. The Radiants wield the magic, not the spren. And we have no evidence that they view the benefits they are granted by the bond AS magic. "The ancient oaths have at last been spoken; the spren return." Speaks pretty heavily at not being a spren. Or, at least, by someone who strongly associates their own identity as significantly other/different than the majority of the spren that can form the Nahel Bond. @Vaspin's last paragraph, the quoted section sounds like someone who knows a lot about Roshar's magic system explaining it to someone who doesn't. We saw this sort of discussion in Warbreaker. I could go on, but i should be using direct quotes, and they're a pain on mobile. If it's a spren (which is very possible, but definitely not probable) my money is on the Night Watcher. http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=nightwatcher'Edit: i love conversations like this one because I find language fascinating. I do hope that I'm not coming across as a belligerent bully; i keep responding only because, to me, it's interesting (both linguistically, and with the mystery element added of "whodunit?"). I've spent nearly as many hours trying to decide who wrote the back cover as i have reading one of the storming books, after all.

Not likely, only possible. After all, Hoid wasn't there for her, not initially at least. And we really don't know what sort of personal code of ethics he may have on messing with strange 14 year old girl's heads. Some have no problem soothing or rioting everyone, others find it grossly invasive. If Hoid was there because of Shallan, i would not have these thoughts, because we do know he will do what needs to be done, morality be damned. Since finding her was an accident, tho, i think short of a wob the answer must be much less certain.

Seems my edit above got missed, since it happened several hours after new post below it (which makes total sense) so re-posting here! Source Soulcasting requires more than just Stormlight, whether it's due to fabrial (in-text) or Surge (per WoB).

I think it was a WoB that Soulcasting requires certain gems, depending on the type of Casting they are doing, and not just Stormlight. Edit: Found it. Source. (Courtesy of a post by Aleksiel found here, for credit.)

And yet humans in Roshar refer to being betrayed by the Radiants, in-text. It's certainly possible for the speaker to be a spren, but in no way is it certain.

Thank Harmony we had you come along and helpfully add to the conversation getting it back on track! Also, no, it didn't. It makes perfect sense to spend a post or two talking about what various Order's Shardblades looked like and differed when you're also speaking about how they used these same Blades to fight various creatures of evil. Speaking of these stances, I can't find mention of it in the books, but the Coppermind wiki states that a stance is based more on a philosophy of fighting or combat, and not necessarily on specific moves and combos. This is a little ridiculous from a real-world perspective (look at various real-world fighting styles), but still neat and interesting to think about being true for in-world. This would also lend weight to the idea that various Orders developed fighting styles that suited their Surges, as well as the way that they would be employed in a battle. Edgedancers would have to fight differently than, say, Stonewards or Windrunners, if they wanted to maximize capability in combat (this is true of literally every Order; I'm not picking on Edgedancers.) Really, the only question to ask is whether the modern stances that Dalinar is familiar with evolved from ones created by the Orders, or were created post-Recreance. I guess another question would be whether the modern stances are specific to Shardblades, or if people using normal weapons use them as well--and when they started. Because if the stances did evolve from the Orders, there's potential for some interesting history.

Emphasis mine. Amaram was willing to bring about a Desolation, which in times past have wiped out 90%+ of the entire population of the planet, just so that his personal church would have more power in the world again. Sadeas was willing to kill 6000 soldiers to create a unified structure of government mostly under his control. Amaram's goals aren't noble in the least, certainly not any more than Sadeas. The only real difference in what they did was on a matter of scale. Sadeas was trying to re-capture the Thrill he felt in his youth, not thrill. The Thrill being caused by one of the Unmade (probably.) Think of it as a drug, and Sadeas a junkie starving for a fix. Hell, even Dalinar yearns for it when he rides out. Towards Amaram in general: He acts in ways that are most favorable to him. The honorable of the Alethi respect and praise him. So do the less-than-honorable. The truest test of character, for anyone, ever, is what you do when you think no one is looking. And Amaram is nothing but scum. Towards Sadeas in general: He acts as he wishes, and makes no pretense in being other than he is. The petty politicking and backstabbing is part of who he is as a person, part of who he has likely always been. That Dalinar forgot this doesn't make Sadeas a worse person--it makes Dalinar a more foolish/naive one. I honestly don't understand how anyone can believe that Amaram is a better person, and a lesser evil, than Sadeas.

Looks neat. Couple of suggestions: 1. Have the number and the word for the number in separate, consecutive columns. Just a formatting thing, and may look odd to everyone else, but in the quadrillions of Excel sheets that I deal with at work, the first column is almost always just a number list haha. 2. Add a column for each Order's 'special' ability. Shallan's Memory is known, as is Windrunners getting more squires than others. 3. We don't know that Bondsmiths bond with godspren; we just know that Dalinar bonded with the Stormfather. There is much debate on the forums as to whether all Bondsmiths bonded with the Stormfather or not. We know that it's theoretically possible for others to have been bonded (including Unmade), but not what the result of such a bond would be. We also know that humans can theoretically bond to more than one spren (with an upper limit), which would suggest that spren might be able to do so as well. So, I'd suggest making cell I-21 more questionable than it currently is. 4. I like how you've color-coded each of the Orders as well, but would add the color in its own column. Have an e-cookie!

Brandon has described a Radiant breaking their Oath as akin to ripping a bit of something out of the spren. My current head-canon is that they drifted until they formed Cusicesh. There's nothing to support this, but nothing (yet) that actively contradicts it.

The Heralds also turned against the humans of Roshar. So did the Radiants. A spren being the speaker is far from certain. Someone who has true knowledge of Roshar's history, and enough Cosmere knowledge to know that the Final Desolation was a lie, is all that is certain. Three Shards, three god spren; the math is pretty simple. And that may reflect part of why Odium is referred to as The Broken One. Personally, though, i think it's an amalgamation of the spren killed by the Recreance.

Sounds like a supremely powerful steel push to me.

Metal seems like it is scarce in nature on Roshar, but Soulcasting serves as a plentiful and easy source. So someone with access to both will rarely, if ever, actually be out of power. Hoid probably used Allomancy because it was the easiest way to achieve his purpose. Emotional manipulation of other people is largely confined to specific magic systems (ie, Allomancy and Forging are the only ones I can think of.) Adding some flavoring to tea might appear odd to others (which, honestly, is what it would have liked like he was doing), but sucking the glow out of many gems, absorbing it into yourself, and then using it in an incredibly inefficient manner would be supremely obvious. also, WoB says that using one type of investiture to fuel an alternate magic system is hard. Vasher had to be very, very careful during the weeping to make sure his Light lasts.

I think it's more likely to be tied to Scadrial than the Cosmere. Similarly, i think it would relate more to harmony or balance, not preservation, because you have to consider ruin as well. That means that if things get too bad, he will act. But, also, if they are too good (because ruin will allow building to be more effective at destroying, but its cost will come due, likely at the point most likely to bring about the most destruction.)

WoR spoiler below: On-topic, though-- I am easily most similar to Shallan. Our childhoods are already very similar: Hers had a bit more violence, mine had a lot less food and money. Her mom died, mine didn't (but not for lack of trying.) I wanted to protect those I loved, but was unable to do so; ditto with her. How we act towards the world is also the same: I smile and laugh at the world, because to do otherwise would be to cry an endless stream of tears; she does the same. We both lie about who we are, so that we can become who we want or need to be--and are generally successful at doing so. We both frequently speak without thinking, in ways that are likely to get us into trouble. While some might call it 'quick-witted' or 'clever-tongued' it's more appropriately 'firing a bazooka at the low-hanging fruit' (at least from my end.) The actions and reactions of others over years fueled this behavior. I am capable of drawing very, very poor splotches of lines and color; Shallan is an amazing artist who doesn't even need to try. So, that's really the only difference between us (besides age, and sex, and Pattern, I mean.)