Erunion

Jasnah is boss. Just, awesome sauce. Best scenes were the WOK flashback with Dalinar and her scene with Renarin - although her combat scenes were epic. On royal line - they should set up a more Roman system with designated heirs. So you go to the pool of available heirs and designate who’s next in line instead of good old Primogeniture, or maybe use a more Celtic Tanistry system where the heir is elected. But for now a designated heir or co-ruler makes the most sense - in which case Jasnah would be queen with Gavadin the heir-designate. Should also designate a regent to rule in Gavadin’s stead until he reaches the age of majority. They’ll also need good regency laws to prevent abuse, and a back up line of succession. Likely Shallan and Adolin will be ‘encouraged’ to have kids in order to ensure Kholin succession, as I can’t see anyone being brave enough to exert a lot of pressure on Jasnah to marry/reproduce.

On Moash - he was in a bad place and raging hard. Then Odium started grooming him, and doing what Odium does best: be the void. He ate Moash’s passion, and fueled it to eat more and to draw him more firmly into his camp. Meanwhile, Moash is being groomed and recruited by a wily fused who’s telling him just what she thinks he needs to hear.

Didn’t quite look hard enough - I posted this theory a while ago but it’s solid! Good thinking! Link for reference: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/61903-ob-stone-shamanism-and-the-girl-who-looked-up/

Is she a Returned? I think it more likely she’s just a person who has returned heritage, and has learned to control more than just her hair.

So - let’s talk about the Skybreakers. They are all about the law. Nale has been convinced that the law he should be following in this conflict is that of the Singers (something that he wasn’t previously convinced of, but has later decided upon). This is terrible. And makes me think he needs Lift to hug him again. Why is this terrible? Because Odium. Odium has corrupted the singers, and by proxy their law. Much as he was corrupting the Alethi, but even more pervasively. But Nale is right in this - humans aren’t exactly innocents, and their laws aren’t necessarily trustworthy. Plus, the Singers ought to be treated fairly. So what does Nale need? He needs the Geneva Conventions. Less anachronistically, he and his Skybreakers need to get outside of the Singer/Human conflict and fight for true Justice. They need to fight against war crimes. They need to protect non-combatants and punish war criminals. In this way, they would support both the humans and the Singers while foiling Odium, because what does Odium crave? What does he inspire? Hate. And hate leads to war crimes (as war crimes lead to more hate). So we need Nale to get his head together and set up the International Court of Justice.

@Fifth of Daybreak, @aemetha - can I just say that I love how this book is getting people to nerd out about bio psychology and how it relates to the main characters?

Sorry, @Greywatch said it better. I don’t mean it should be a contrived on the side thing, I think it should be believable, satisfying, but not a key part of his arc. His character focus is elsewhere. I don’t want a romance to change his character focus.

If Kaladin has a romance, I hope it’s a very minor plot. Not with a main character or in a key plotline. Just a bit of light in his life.

Can I just say right here how lovely Renarin is as a person? He just cares. He’s so nice. I love that kid so much - and all the while he’s worried that he’s turning evil - so much so that he’s willing to let his cousin kill him because he thinks he’s dangerous. Even more; he saw it coming and just accepted his fate. Which leads to Jasnah’s best scene. Also, Evi. Can we talk about Evi? One of the most consistently kind, loving, generous people in this world? So much so that she walks herself into a condemned city in order to give it one last chance at life. The woman who raises her kids to love and honour their father, because of the goodness she sees in him that struggles to break through his addiction to the Thrill. And all the while she’s living in a society that mocks her and everything she stands for. That thinks she’s weak for disliking killing, that thinks she’s weird for liking (and being public about) hugs, that thinks she’s slow for not being constantly biting and cruel to those around her through a wit she hasn’t honed. She’s the only one who’s happy to hear that her husband didn’t murder a child. She’s a vote of sanity and peace in a brutal and insane culture. Do you wonder that we like Adolin and Renarin so much? They are her children as much or more than they are Dalinar’s. They have the power and honour of the Dalinar, tempered by the gentle loving nature of their mother. We need more Evi’s in the world. (Roshar and Earth).

@Aleksiel Yep, and the idiocy of angry young men is well attested. Especially when romance is involved. And I agree with you, this will go somewhere. The question is where.

Yes, it seems highly probable that the Nightwatcher had gained Nightblood, somehow.

It’s a great rule of thumb (and it’s XKCD approved. What’s not to like?). On Kaladin’s relationships - he’s really emotionally close to Syl. Now, that’s more brother/sister but it might be a hurdle for potential romantic interests and it shows that he doesn’t really need a romantic partner. Like Jasnah, he’s got a world to save. Romance isn’t something he really should be worrying about. Now, if we are shipping him it’ll be interesting. On-screen possibilities include Azure (Vivenna) and Lyn, both of whom are the right age, and show character traits that would be attractive/compatible with our boy Kaladin. There’s also Tarah, who is still around, presumably alive somewhere. Problems with those: Azure/Vivenna might be the right age. She might also be centuries old. We aren’t sure. She’s also here for other reasons, and might not want to stay or get entangled on Roshar. Lyn seems a more minor character to show the breaking down of Alethi social norms in the Radiants. If she’s romantically interested in men, it’s more likely to be a minor character (like Skar). Plus she’s named after someone in real life. Tarah - well, we don’t even know if she’s alive. Plus there’s the whole ‘he turned her down and never responded to her letters’ thing.

I think Ishar wants to be free of the Oathpact. My guess is that he broke, hard. I bet that Odium has made a deal with him - help me out and in exchange you will never suffer again. Possibly he was promised oblivion.

This is probably the first time I’ve read a Brandon Sanderson book and seen the clear influence of the Wheel of Time in his writing. The whole Kholinar section was extremely reminiscent of the last 4-5 books of the Wheel of Time. A city infiltrated by evil, descending into madness. And storms he did a good job. You can feel the desperation, the wrongness to the place.

‘First draft’ ‘Peter hasn’t seen it yet’ - still amazing. Dang it Sanderson, why are you so good at this?

@Pammie Stay away from the Oathbringer spoiler board and from the cosmere discussion board. Just. Stay away. Other parts of the forum should be safe. Also, I will be rushing home from work tmmrw to grab the book as soon as possible - it should have been delivered. From there I will spend every practical moment reading it. For this will be my life now. Sadly, I can’t do what I used to do (devour the whole book in a day and a half by reading through all my classes. Now I have work. C’est la vie.)

RIGHT!!!?!? The closest I’ve ever been is for A Memory of Light. But I didn’t spend this much time on forums hyping myself up - so it’s not quite the same. My level of anticipation for this book is off the charts. At least my sister is almost equally excited. I just have to make sure she doesn’t steal my book and pretend it never shipped.... until her’s arrives anyway.

@JoyBlu - it could just mean politics. No one has as much influence or can command as large an army and retinue. No human in Roshar has the resources, capacity and will that Dalinar Kholin has.

@JoyBlu - oh, tons. The heralds aren’t strictly human anymore (cognitive shadows). Neither is Vasher himself. Aimian aren’t human. Listeners are genetically close (can interbreed apparently, so very close), but not human. Horneaters and Herdazians are only part-human (they’re part Listener as well).

The red streamers of anticipationspren are floating around my head as I re-read the pre-released chapters in advance of Tuesday. Through my head rings the anthem of Queen; I want it all, I want it all - I want it all; and I want it now! And so I ask you all this question - what are you anticipating most from Oathbringer? To start us off: - Kaladin’s return to Urithiru and it’s fallout - The fallout from jasnah’s return to Urithiru. - Szeth’s inevitable interlude, now with 100% more Nightblood - Finding out about the Nightwatcher.

Ahahaha! I glow! And can draw magic lines in the air! This is awesome!!!

Sanderson is good at writing complex motivations for his antagonists. Look at Warbreaker (massive spoilers for Warbreaker below the spoiler tag) It’s entirely reasonable to suspect that Rosharan Humans are, or were, ‘in the wrong’ but that doesn’t justify Odious actions in the part of the Listeners. War crimes are not justified as a response to historic injustice. My evil against you is not justified by your past evil against me, or my hope of a righting of past wrongs. Journey before Destination. As posted in my thread discussing the ‘girl who looked up’ story, it is likely that the Listeners were in the right and that humanity broke a deal/committed grave injustice against them. But then Odium swept in and used that righteous anger to create hate, great evil, and Desolation.

I’d say it’s eithet Hoid/Lift, Hoid, or no one. Adolin didn’t show up with Jasnah, but he preceded her to Shallan. So it’s entirely possible, probable even, that Jasnah’s companions are people swarming her since she arrived in Urithiru. Possibly including her mother, step father, brother, and her other step brother too.

Contain your Odious impulses! Act with Honour, and Honour will help you.

I beg to differ, as my book arrives next Tuesday