Kurkistan

^Sorry for stealing your thunder there. I had forgotten about your post.

I don't have the book with me, but didn't she simply state that her brother had disappeared, presumed dead, over a year ago? That allows some time to train with the Plate and Blade and become trusted by the Ghostbloods before biting the dust.

Done. That took longer than I thought it would. EDIT: And this one with white letters on both. I didn't realize how dark the background would be when I changed the letters to black at first.

No, not at all, now that you mention it. Sorry for just abandoning your spren-influenced theory. It may be true, but we can't really do any serious thought experiments on the effects of partial entry/exit into bubbles using it, and that's where a lot of the meat is. As to Edit 4, do you agree with the implications on the impossibility of bendalloy-FTL? I would like it very much if someone could persuade me that my conclusion doesn't apply. Okay, onto spinning: I believe that you're onto something here, although we have to consider how this works in the real (cough) world. A cadmium bubble at anything less or a bendalloy bubble at anything more or equal to half "immersion" into a time bubble would achieve momentary infinite acceleration. A cadmium bubble at more/equal or a bendalloy bubble at less would stop rotation instantly. Less cadmium and more/equal bendalloy bubbles can pour all of their gained energy from the faster section into the slower section, with increasing returns as you noted. More/equal cadmium and less bendalloy bubbles lose all of their energy as they pour more energy into accelerating the slower section than they gain from the faster section. First of all, unless this half-or-greater disc is secured somehow, it will be near instantaneously yanked inside a bendalloy bubble, or thrown out of a cadmium bubble if it's less than half. Ideally, if the bubble where to pop the moment the disc moved, disc in a bubble would fly off at a >=45 degree angle (45 degree for 1/2, greater as the immersion changes) either into our out of the bubble, with directionality determined by bubble type and the nature of the initial rotation. The bubble will most likely not pop in that instant, though, so instead we have the disc shooting off at a 90 degree angle, along the line parallel to it's initial intersection with the bubble and intersecting the position of the center of the disc when its entirety is encompassed by/outside of the bubble (minus an infinitely small portion outside/inside). The path for a bendalloy bubble would intersect the bubble while the path for a cadmium bubble would not. With a bendalloy bubble, the disc spinning clockwise into the bubble/counterclockwise out of it or a disc spinning opposite using a cadmium bubble would shoot down at 90 degrees, while a disc spinning counterclockwise into a bendalloy bubble/clockwise out of it or a disc spinning opposite using a cadmium would shoot up. Infinite gained energy assumes some infinitely strong axle anchored in the anchor for the time bubble, as well as an infinitely strong disc, which do not exist. So either the disc shatters and releases its energy every which way, possibly depopulating a few planets, or the axle breaks and the disc will yank its way off of its axle at a 90 degree angle, with its energy determined by how much was necessary to break the axle. You gain energy either way, but I imagine that this would be rather hard to control properly, and very risky at high energy levels. In the "real world" of Scadrial, I imagine that most instances where this happens simply result in the rotating section being pulled into/shot out of the bubble at relatively low speeds. Fear not! Remember that the energy from the exiting the bubble has to try and accelerate the entire body, so as the arm is pulled forward, the body will also pulled forward, taking a significant amount of energy from the arm/hand. Remember that the hand's acceleration most likely doesn't actually provide enough energy to accelerate the arm to 10 mph, also, so the scaling effects you mention will be mitigated each stage.

In the same way, they will be like sudden brief gusts of wind that will cause a bullet to ricochet in a completely unpredictable way upon entering or exiting (not even refraction laws can help). It wouldn't be as bad as anything requiring the suffix "-plode," I think. The body's constituent parts are rather firmly connected to each other. A bit of math might actually be appropriate here. I don't think the wind currents are that strong. Recall that Wax and Marasi were right next to Wayne when he changed his disguise at the wedding, but didn't feel a "sudden gust of wind" at any point, which would be the case if the air was circulating quickly enough to deflect bullets.

I just had a rather large revelation about the nature of time bubbles: I haven't been considering the impacts of frame of reference properly. I was thinking about my answer to the "train as ground" problem that Musicspren raised, and realized that I had stumbled across a rather crucial distinction. Imagine two systems: System A: Two objects, c and d, are at rest 10 meters away from each other in an infinite space, not moving relative to each other. Cast a bendalloy bubble around object c. Wait 1 second. Pop the bubble. Neither object has moved relative to the other Before bubble: c__________d After bubble: c__________d System B: Two objects, c and d, are moving along the same line in the same direction at 1 m/s, 10 meters away from each other, in and infinite space. Cast a bendalloy bubble with a compression factor of 10 around one of the objects. Pop after 1 second. The object you bubbled just moved 10 meters to the other object's 1, changing their relative positions. Before bubble: b__________c (10 '_') After bubble: b_c (1 '_') How were these two systems meaningfully different? They are not different in any classical sense. Looking purely at the objects before and after bubbling, they have no relative motion. The speed of "1 m/s" is entirely arbitrary within the c-d system. If you read the descriptions carefully, the relationship between c and d within systems A and B are actually exactly the same before the bendalloy bubble is cast. I could just as easily make a system C that had the objects moving at 1,000 m/s, and it still would have been exactly the same when just looking at the two objects. Therefore, the bubble itself is the only possible difference. The bubble determines the frame of reference by which the "speed" of the objects are defined, and thus causes changes to what is otherwise a changeless system. The bubble, in turn, presumably borrows its frame of reference from its anchor. If the anchor had been either of the objects in system B, then nothing would have changed because neither object would have had any velocity from the frame of reference of the bubble, and thus would move 0 meters at 0 m/s no matter how many seconds passed. Therefore, if a bubble is anchored to an object, then that object must necessarily be motionless relative to the bubble, with the velocities of all other objects, both within and without the bubble, defined in relation to that anchor. This has bad implications for FTL. This means that my time-fiddling won't actually achieve c*f speeds. The bendalloy bubble around the ship will travel at exactly the speed of the ship using this understanding, which will still only be c. EDIT 1/2: I'm having a bit of trouble conceptualizing this necessity, though. If you have two objects traveling at the same speed, but one is anchoring a bendalloy bubble with a compression factor of 10, then the anchor object still experiences 10 seconds for every 1 of the other object. So the anchor must be traveling at 1/10 of the speed of the other object, moving 1/10 of the number of meters for every second inside the bubble as the other object moves each second from an outside perspective. So a ship traveling at c in this bubble would actually be traveling at c/10. This is either a problem with my understanding of how time bubbles actually work or I've found a necessary contradiction built into Cadmium/Bendalloy Allomancy. This second option because it actually reduces the velocity of the anchor while the bubble is up, only to speed it up again when the bubble is dropped, as does not and should not happen with any other instance of time-bubbling. This problem also occurs for anything which matches the speed of the anchor. EDIT 3: Messed with the examples a bit to clear up possible confusion. Also, it might not be a contradiction, just a limit as objects approach the "0" speed of the anchor. Perhaps time even passes normally for anything which matches the anchor perfectly. EDIT 4: Yes, lots of edits. Sorry. I was hoping that someone else would have come along to untangle my brain by now, but instead you get to benefit from a stream-of-consciousness. Looking at Edits 1/2, I believe I have been mistaken in how I thought about this. Those comments actually contradict my own earlier statements about how important frame of reference is with time bubbles. So what if the anchor was traveling at 1000 m/s from an arbitrary frame of reference? It should still be motionless within a bubble traveling at constant speed. And yet the anchor still needs to experience those same extra seconds. From the viewpoint of a bendalloy-bubbled anchor, the world, which had been moving about at a normal pace around a stationary anchor, has just slowed down. What is unique about objects within the bubble (excluding the anchor) is that they can travel at "normal" speeds relative to the anchor, while the rest of the universe cannot. So another object which is traveling 1 m/s faster than the anchor, when caught in the bubble, will be moving 1 meter per experienced second relative to the anchor. When that object exits the bubble, it will lose its advantage and slow down like the rest of the universe. From the viewpoint of the bubble, it as if the entire world is being perceived at a faster rate than normal, while any objects caught within the bubble are perceived normally. So the anchor doesn't move because it never did, assuming the anchor as a frame of reference, while everything else within the bubble does its own thing and the rest of the world glaciates along. When the bubble is dropped, the rest of the world returns to normal, although the anchor never changed. We must remember that the only valid frame of reference from which to judge a time bubble is that of an anchor. The anchor does not move. Ever. Time may pass, the anchor may be a potted plant that grows into a tree as the world races by around it, but it will never move. The anchor may rotate about it's axis as much as it wants, but can never shift its center of mass in any direction. To say, as I did, that "the anchor is moving at x/f" is meaningless because x is always equal to 0. To accelerate the anchor one direction is to accelerate everything else in the opposite direction, but the anchor will never move - the rest of the world does. We then have the image of a disc spinning as it moves through space, rotating at 1 Hz. We assume a frame of reference where then disc moves 1 m/s, getting one meter moved for each rotation, but when you put a bendalloy bubble around it, it now rotates at 10 Hz from an outside perspective, despite moving through space at the same rate of 1 m/s. This appears wrong, but picture another disc rotating at 1 Hz but moving at 2 m/s from the assumed frame of reference, on the same vector as the anchor, getting 2 meters for every rotation. This second disc is caught in the bendalloy bubble, and now rotates at 10 Hz while moving through space only 10 meters, for a 1-1 ratio. Still wrong? No, it is not. Recall that the speed at which a bubble is traversed is always relative to the speed of the anchor, and that the second disc was only moving 1 m/s relative to the anchor. We have to divorce ourselves from a conception of velocity as distance/time because time is being messed around with. Simply saying "1 m/s over 10 seconds is 10 meters" doesn't cut it anymore. Time bubbles change how space is traversed, as well as time: all motion over time must be made relative to the anchor, because the anchor is pulling along its own little patch of space-time, not just time.

If this is the case, then I agree with you as to the effects. This is probably also what happens when you tap Investiture. Could I get a source for compounding fueling Allomancy, though? I don't think I've seen that interview.

It needn't tear away from the rest, and the (real) ground doesn't need to tear away either, by my understanding. The section of the train/earth is traveling at speed X, along with the rest of it's components, at the moment of "bubbling." If the bubble is anchored to the object in question, then the bubble will also be traveling at X. Therefore, the entire structure is traveling at 0 m/s relative to the bubble. To an outside observer traveling at the same velocity as the bubble, the section within the bubble will appear to be traveling at 0*f (compression factor) and the section outside the bubble will be traveling at 0. From within the bubble, the rest of the structure will be traveling at 0/f compared to the 0 of object within the bubble. If the structure as a whole changes velocity, then the same numbers apply, if the bubble is actually anchored to it. EDIT: Note that this assumes that the bubble is anchored to the structure as a whole, or part of the structure outside the bubble. If the anchor was a point inside the bubble, then bad things will happen as the bubble and the bubbled section attempt to travel at X*f, compared to the X of the rest of the structure. EDIT 2: Never mind, I think you would be fine even then. EDIT 4: See two posts down for reasoning. No separation needed or possible. This applies equally well with spaceships and the crust of Scadrial. I don't subscribe to this particular theory. Perhaps some Physical/Cognitive/Spiritual stuff goes on so that light isn't affected, but I think that the reason why light isn't affected is just because Cadmium/Bendalloy are actually alloys of Handwavium so that a flashlight can't be used to microwave people. Excluding the exemption of light, I imagine that the mechanics of time bubbles are as close to realistic as possible. I think that the reason for "jostling" for both people and bullets is because of piecemeal acceleration and deceleration as objects enter and exit bubbles. The "unpredictability" of the trajectories of projectiles exiting the bubbles is then because of the high variability of angles of entry and exit relative to the "skin" of the bubble, affecting different parts of the projectile in different orders every time. People move slowly relative to the bubble and are of high mass, so are only "jostled." Bullets on the other hand, have a very high velocity relative to the bubble and low mass, resulting in large changes of energy in nigh-unpredictable directions as parts of the bullet enter/exit the bubble and impart energy onto the rest of the bullet. By this model, a projectile fired from the geometric center of a bubble would never be deflected, as would also apply to any projectile which followed the path of a line intersecting that same geometric center. EDIT 3: So long as that projectile was symmetrical and the path it followed was also parallel to its axis of reflection.

According to the RPG, they are the "Hybrid Metals because they balance the four essential elements of life: health, breath, nutrition, and the will to live." EDIT: More RPG stuff. Chromium/Nicrosil - Unknown (although chromium isn't Spiritual Feruchemy) Duraluminum - Spiritual (Enhancment metals) Feruchemy. Gold - Hybrid/"Necessital" (Temporal metals) Feruchemy - You're right there. Electrum, Cadmium, and Bendalloy - Unknown. Based on this, I would assume that electrum steals the Allomantic temporal powers, leaving the four metals left, all external, to steal other attributes.

Got it. I can see how this would work, and it is more akin to my own initial "engine" concept. This would limit how much energy we could gain from each bubble, since the energy is related to how fast the object passing through a bubble is in relation to the bubble, but would still be workable. EDIT: This is unrelated to this post, but I would like to note that I edited the OP to add a bit more to the Background, Evidence, and Ship Design sections, as well as clean up some spelling errors.

I had assumed that that was simply the application of investiture from nicrosil-minds.

Compounding doesn't increase your Allomantic ability with a given metal, so no.

An excellent analysis which had not occurred to me. I probably should have devoted more time to solving the anchoring problem myself, but at least I left something for other people to discuss after my mega-OP . While I think that you're on to something, exactly how "ground" is defined is still up for grabs. Remember that Brandon said that a bubble cast in a moving train wouldn't move with the train, despite the fact that the train is "solidly attached" to the planet at the moment of casting. Since even the truly "solidly attached" ground does move slightly, relative to the center of Scadrial (plate tectonics, not rotation), at all times, perhaps there's a certain threshold of motion for when something attached to the main mass can qualify as an anchor. I'm having some trouble visualizing how this would work, despite Wikipedia's generous help. Also, by "engine," do you mean a part that extends and retracts through time bubbles to provide energy, just a drive pod, or the part of the ship where the bubbles are anchored?

*WoK Spoilers* I had forgotten about that answer. I'll bring over the relevant quote from the transcript: Considering that we've already seen Surgebinders reassign the spiritual connection that objects feel to Roshar, as the Ars Arcanum puts it, I have hope that either a technological or Allomantic solution to this problem exists.

According to the RPG, copper spikes steal intelligence and memory directly, although they have the unfortunate side effect of almost always driving their recipients insane.

Get comfortable, folks. This is the kind of theory thread that I fully intend to save an off-web version of so that I can pull it off of my brain-drive 20 years from now when Brandon writes the third Mistborn trilogy. I do not intend to see any left-out sections at that point in time. Also, slight AoL spoilers. Background: Evidence: Assumptions: Main Theory Note: I'm scavenging this from several of my posts on the other thread, and will try as best as possible to credit others where appropriate. Feel free to call me out if I miss someone. Goal: Use cadmium bubbles to achieve infinite free acceleration and bendalloy bubbles to achieve FTL travel through real-space while retaining less than 'c' speed from the perspective of the ship. Propulsion: If we can actually break c in real-space in the Cosmere, then this will get you there. Otherwise, you're going to need. . . Time-Fiddling Movement: Ship Design: EDIT: Quick update: This is all wrong. Objects are either totally in or totally out of time bubbles based on their Cognitive aspects and frame-of-reference shenanigans means that anything matching the time bubble's vector will not be accelerated by it.

Recall that Wax is thinking about density as far as his body not being perforated by bullets went, as I commented in this post.

According to the RPG, connection does actually amount entirely to positive "connections." It's descriptions of surging connection scale from friendship to absolute love.

This opens an avenue of discussion about Duraluminum Ferrings: How exactly do they think of switching storing/tapping while in one state or another, essentially switching back and forth between Jekyll and Hyde (the modern incarnation, not the double-evil novel version). How would Jekyll, a lover of humanity, think of becoming a, comparatively, empathy-less husk? How would Hyde, contemptuous of the welfare of others, view the possibility of becoming a touchy-feely weakling upon tapping? I imagine that the two "personalities" become more extreme at the ends of the spectrum, Hyde more and more reluctant to tap connection the more he stores, while Jekyll fears the necessity of returning to even a "normal" state when his Connection runs out. Double Duraluminum twinborns, then, might become stuck in a constant, constantly escalating Jekyll state, loathe to return to comparatively low levels of empathy, and perhaps tapping just that bit more of Connection all of the time. Essentially, imagine that you're magically connected to people, loving them while they love you, and loving that they love you and you love them. And you can sustain and increase this connection indefinitely. What kind of person would willingly shut it off? Is the kind of person who's so connected to others even capable of making the decision of turning into what they see as an empathy-less monster? Is that monster capable of wanting to become a touchy-feely lover of humanity? Assuming that sociopathy is modeled in the Cosmere by a low "natural" level of Connection, sociopaths may simply have to tap larger amounts (stored more laboriously) of Connection to reach "normal" levels and above.

I have no problem with Inquisitors being capable of using atium, but we're looking at electrum as a more cost-effective source of protection. Atium for definite engagements, electrum for general defense against surprise attack.

"Well look at that, fellow nobles who I am in constant competition with; I saw a ghost for a half second there. Oh, and here come the Inquisitors! And now I'm being dragged away, never to be seen again! Toodaloo!" No one is likely to want to reveal their "mental instability" to their fellows, and anyone would probably be too startled during the moment when they burned electrum to know what had happened, especially considering the commotion which would be happening at the same time. Mistborn are far too valuable both as ways to strengthen the bloodline and as potential tools to waste acquiring a single spike, so their sacrifice was almost certainly avoided whenever possible.

Just to clarify here, the Inquisitors would use Seekers (preferably double-bronze) to see who burned what. Self-reporting Oracles wouldn't be necessary.

@People with power I think it may be appropriate for an Admin to post a message or thread emphasizing this request.

According to the RPG, the time differential is the sum of all overlapping bubbles, with bendalloy and cadmium acting as positive and negative (or vice versa). It's covered on page 362 of the PDF, and I'm not sure if we're allowed to post large segments of text, what with copyright and all. I'll just paraphrase an example they give. Ex. Cadmium bubble expands 1 minute inside to 10 minutes outside. It intersects with a bendalloy bubble compressing 20 minutes outside to 1 minute inside. Area of overlap has (20-10) = 10 minutes pass outside for each minute inside.

That had occurred to me after I posted, but we still have a pretty harsh width/depth limit: we can't afford for one splinter of this ship to be in real time. You could chain the bubbles throughout the ship to cover everything, but then we need even more bubbles positioned in odd places to provide perfect coverage. In any case, the areas of overlap would also cause weirdness, as well as the small, but significant differences in compression factors between the various bubbles. P.S. As to hijacking an innocent thread: I realized what was happening as I continued to edit my first "design" post, but this topic isn't exactly the most focused in the first place. I was wary of stealing from other peoples revelations about how time bubbles function, so wanted to keep my post in context. Looking back, I probably still should have bitten the bullet and created a new thread to discuss this. Oh well.