TheArcanist

Excellent point. I'm still thinking of the highstorms as separate weather systems, and not a continuous one.

Indeed. In the meantime, what do you think is the connection between Shardblades, Nightblood, and what it is they attack?

Perhaps, but I still think it's worth asking- if just to see that this is a step in the right direction.

True- but they don't normally fall from the sky, either.

I think I just figured out a way to quantify what, exactly, is the comparison between Breath and Stormlight, and thus how they deal with things.

So it makes people sick, but plants healthy. Huh. I wonder what effect it has on Rosharan crustaceans?

Wait. The connection here is investiture. The process of consuming or "burning" it isn't exactly the same as with Shardblades, but Nightblood attacks something and fuels itself by burning through Investiture, and life is maintained by Innate Investiture. In the removal of Investiture, the Spiritual/Cognitive connection to the Shard that gives that particular planet's Investiture is broken. The real question is- how do we define the difference between the Investiture of Breath and the Investiture of being a sentient lifeform?

Crem is used, linguistically, as a derogatory term similar to a certain excrement-related curse on earth. However, it's actually part of the rainwater on Roshar. It's some kind of clay-like material that has to settle out of the water, or it makes people sick, and is then used in making pottery and buildings. Sort of how mud and straw is used to make basic bricks, but I have no idea what the people of Roshar would used to replace straw as the binding material.

Or maybe it moved closer to the sun not by altering orbit, but rather by altering the tilt of the planet. Remember, Mistborn takes place in Northern Scadrial, we have no idea how the southern hemisphere was affected. Earth maintains a planetary tilt on orbit of 21 degrees. If the northern hemisphere began to tilt closer to the sun, it would cause dramatic, catastrophic climate change. This is without counting the damage that would occur on the surface of the planet if magic suddenly moved a planet going at a dramatic speed through space. You know how we don't really feel any of the earth's orbits? Imagine what would happen if they suddenly stopped, and then altered dramatically. It's a miracle that when the Lord Ruler altered Scadrial's orbit without thinking that everyone didn't just fly off the surface of the planet and get launched into orbit.

Yes, the fight was very quick- most fights actually are. It's usually only in movies, TV, or books that they last for any real length of time unless the combatants are actually quite skilled, or they don't really know anything which makes it last a similar period of time. The duel on the scroll could've lasted longer, but the Right-Hand Warrior made the huge mistake of getting impatient. He tried to lure the Left-Hand Warrior into attacking by making an "opening", then got impatient and tried to attack. The Right-Hand Warrior tried to use the lightning-fast Smokestance to get in quick and end the fight, but the Left-Hand Warrior easily overpowered him with his two-handed block, and he tried to push his assault instead of stepping back and changing his stance. @PorridgeBlack: The stances were used for longswords, actually, though Shardblades are roughly the length of a greatsword. However, that doesn't really matter because they're remarkably light and Shardplate makes them essentially weightless. "Fencing" normally evokes the use of a rapier [A "musketeer" sword], but is the technical term for organized European-based sword-focused martial arts. The German/Italian schools predate what most people think of as fencing by a couple hundred years. Here're some videos I found of people sparring in each of the martial arts we're looking at as inspiration. Tell me what you think and what you see. And this is the free ebook I got which goes through the basics of the German/Italian techniques: http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/support-files/trueswordsman.pdf

That chapter heading resembles the third portion of the scroll, in my opinion. The main difference though, is that the point is tilting upwards instead of downwards, but that could be the "ready" position of that stance as opposed to the "parry/block" exhibited in the scroll. I suppose the big question here is what style of swordplay did Brandon base these stances off of- Kendo, the German/Italian Longsword schools, or some other method. I'm seeing influences from all over the place, but similar motions and actions are used in totally different ways from practice to practice. In order to fully decode the stances, we need to know in what context to think of them.

Huh, my mistake then. Still- why do they disappear when struck?

I do think that the stances have been fairly accurately matched to the diagrams, but it would be a good idea to ask Brandon about them if you get the chance. I'm hardly an expert, but I'll help any way I can. Shallan's sketches almost certainly identify just one stance each- a stance is identified mostly by the placement of the feet, the positioning of the hands or weapon is secondary. However, the text does seem to indicate that there are variations upon each stance, as Dalinar specifically mentions "The sword-and-dagger form of Smokestance". With regards to the scroll, it seems to outline a rote duel- attack by the opponent, block, parry, counterattack. It goes something like this. Left-Hand Warrior (Jagged Blade, unadorned Shardplate) - Begins in Ironstance [Fig. 4] and awaits attack - Responds to attack by kneeling to accept the weight of the blow, twists to one side to bring his blade across his body and parry - Slides backwards into Long Cat stance, drops sword into Hanging Point guard to disengage the opponent's weapon. Notice the point is pretty much in the ground and the edge is in an awkward position to respond. - Lunges; the blow pierces the Plate and kills his opponent. Right-Hand Warrior (Smooth Blade, Shardplate with Red accents) - Begins in Fool's Guard in an effort to get the other warrior to take advantage of the apparent opening. - Slips into Smokestance [Fig. 7] and jabs upwards towards the head, or brings the blade up and attempts to cut down. - Lunges in Smokestance. The other warrior's parry leaves a huge opening, he has no defence. - Dies from a Shardblade through the chest.

Yes, but why are they paralyzed? It doesn't kill the limb, but it does sever a connection. Both Nightblood an the Shardblades are said to "burn souls", which are a purely Spiritual thing- to me, that acts as further proof that the theory is correct. With regards to Lifeless, they are a Type II Awakened object that originally needed something like 100 Breaths to power until the discovery of the One-Breath Command. And if memory serves, Nightblood cuts through them instead of burning them out; in other words, death through trauma and not a lack of "soul". The reason that the Lifeless are so Breath-Efficient is that they are, effectively, a perfect inanimate copy of a person, and Awakening is easier on anthropomorphic objects.

Thank-you. Now, to take this further we have to consider the purpose of Breath on Nalthis and how it relates to one's Spiritual connection. We know that Breath acts as a supplement for the immune system and boosts mental health, so Drabs are more sickly and irritable. They also are less vibrant, see less colour, and cannot Return. This somehow implies that Breath itself induces some kind of Spiritual/Invested connection with Endowment which can lead to the granting of a Divine Breath- a Splinter of Endowment. If all these things are true, then that means colour, or rather the ability to percieve colour, is improved by greater Spiritual connection to Endowment in the same way that a Spiritual connection to Ruin or Preservation affects people on Scadrial and their ability to relate to and connect with the Allomantic/Feruchemical traits attached to the metal that the Misting/Fering or Mistborn/Feruchemist can use.

Okay, so then Investiture is a multi-realm attribute leaning more towards Spiritual. If that is correct, then what does this have to do with Breaths? I think what we need to do to better understand this is to see the connections between Breath and Stormlight, as these seem to be the most direct comparisons of magical fuel in the Cosmere.

Well, the question is what purpose colour serves. It doesn't necessarily act as the fuel itself, but it is related to Endowment. Now, take into consideration the theory that the flowers known as the Tears of Edgli are the physical "body" of Endowment in the same way atium and lerasium are the "bodies" of Ruin and Preservation. [Note: This has been RAFO'd but that doesn't make it invalid] These flowers make spectacular dyes, which in turn supply above-average fuel for Awakening which implies a strong tie to Endowment in the same way that lerasium serves to make a strong connection with Preservation. If this is true, then colour isn't the fuel for Awakening, but rather the Spiritual connection to Endowment that colour provides.

Well, the thing we need to determine is if Investiture is Spiritual or Cognative and if Investiture has to do with sentience. I believe that Investiture is Spiritual in nature, but I could be wrong.

Of course, this is assuming that the Inquisitor who's managed to World-Hop to Roshar isn't aware of the trick of using any magical fuel for any magical system. We know that can use Stormlight to fuel himself, and if Marsh has had nothing but the past four hundred years or so to work with Harmony and learn to master Allomany and Feruchemy, chances are he knows enough about Realmatic Theory to figure it out. The real question is- how would an Allomancer/Feruchemist use Stormlight?

While I can't, at the moment, particularly pick out one style from another just from the pictures and quotes, I do recognize many of the positions from German and Italian longsword fencing manuels. What you've identified as Smokestance [Figure. 7] strongly resembles the longsword-and-dagger form of the Italian style. From practice, I know that this particular stance isn't great if you want really powerful attacks with the edge of the blade but it is ridiculously fast, and keeps you mobile. The diagrams which are almost certainly Ironstance [Fig. 4, Fig. 2] both favour a stance which is halfway between Horse-Riding Stance and Bent-Leg-Glass-Horse Stance, while the shardblade is in a position known as Woman's Guard in the German manuels (If memory serves), which offers a quick smashing blow downwards and swift blocking across the body. This sets you up into the same stance placed on the opposite side of the body, so you can link together several blows without interruption unless your opponent is particularly skilled. The image identified as Stonestance in the OP [Fig. 5] is almost a direct copy of the Boar Guard (That's the correct name, I think) in the German manuels, which is the basic all-purpose defense/attack posture. Where the sword is positioned, it's very easy to move your opponent's blade off to the side, or down, which leaves you in an advantageous position. With regards to positioning, Vinestance [Fig. 3] is exactly the same as Stonestance, but with the bent legs, it offers more mobility and flexibility. It might not look like it, but that stance is actually perfect for moving in essentially any direction you want into any stance, block, or attack. In the martial arts I've practiced, it's called Fighting Stance, or Forward Stance, and it is the most vital thing you can learn with regards to stance as a base for attack and defense. The Windstance images [Fig. 1, Fig. 9] seem to be based on Roof Guard and Ox Guard in the German manuels, respectively. I've never found a use for Roof Guard, but Ox Guard allows for long, sweeping, edge-length cuts that are easily chained together because the end of the blow sets up Ox Guard on the other side. Fig. 10 resembles the Iron Door Guard in the manuels, and I'm not sure what Fig. 6 is for. With regards to Flamestance [Fig. 8] doesn't look like a sword-based stance, but resembles a staff/spear guard more closely. I'll ask a friend of mine who practices longstaff.

Well, if it was meant to replace Szeth's then I'd say Nightblood is roughly on the same power level as the one he lost. Also- if Nightblood was made with 1,000 Breaths, does that mean Nightblood has the same abilities as an Awakener of the Fourth Heightening? I'm pretty sure Brandon confirmed that any magic system can run on any fuel with some effort. I mean, WoR basically confirmed is on Roshar right now.

Well this is assuming that the investiture of Breath is what makes a person sentient. This seems to be more related to the Spiritual Realm, while I'd be more inclined to believe that sentience has more to do with the Cognitive Realm [iE- Shadesmar]. Shallan's experience in Shadesmar would seem to indicate that everything has some sort of sentience, a spren if you will, but it requires incredible amounts of Focus and Investiture to make it conscious or present if it was not originally an organic object. When given the opportunity to express their inner sentience [spren], Awakening on Nalthis has shown that an object has a tendency towards imitating life upon Awakening. Thus, any Type III entity attempts to become anthropomorphic if it doesn't somehow resemble a living shape already. This also explains why spren have a humanoid form. My understanding is that a Divine Breath is essentially one enormously powerful Breath equivalent to 2,000 regular Breaths and is therefore a more perfect expressions of Endowment.

I want to visit all of them! Just not Roshar for any length of time, that place is about to become even more messy than it already is. And certainly not Scadrial under the Lord Ruler, that just seems like a bad idea. So, basically, I'd like to World Hop with Hoid and study/practice different magic systems. That sounds like a suitable mix of exciting and reasonably safe.

Hello there! I just wanted to say hello and introduce myself to the forum. As well as being an avid reader and a huge fan of Brandon Sanderson's books, I'm a bit of a writer myself with a keen interest in various complex fantasy magic systems. Guess I picked a good set of books to read, huh? In any case, I look forward to discussing and exploring the Cosmere with all of you.