Ryshadium

That's where I am with it too. I assume at some point Vedel had a set of keys, or something gold, and history turned into something else. And Nalan's hand definitely sounds like a colloquialism/idiom similar to Hand of Justice etc. Just thought there might be some worth in accumulating all the Herald references like these throughout the two books. Taln's Scar is another one. Not an idiom, obviously, but similar. It could still just be part of the language/world building.

No idea about Pailiah's real name. Could be Pai

I get the sense that he's looking at an ugly crab thing, yet contemplating "beauty" which is somewhat ironic. But it's Hoid, so there's always the chance for multiple meanings.

I assume so. This thread makes me think of the various oaths used including the Heralds, I wonder if they have any more significant meaning, or if it is just a world building exercise. By oaths, I mean things like: "Nalan's hand" "By Vedeledev's golden keys" Most likely nothing.

Thank you, I just found it in Dalinar's vision. Most likely her real name for sure!

I wonder what kind of fortune Elkohar paid to get his...

I think that's wise Looking at the copper mind, it is believed that Battar is the real name of one of the Heralds - is there a source for this, or did I miss it in the books (highly likely).

I was under this impression as well - I don't know where to put Nalan in this, because he calls himself Nin to Szeth. I don't know how accurate the Shin names are for the Heralds, but probably more accurate than the Vorin names, seeing as the Shin have had the Honorblades for quite some time.

When reading, at first I thought Pai herself was a herald, but her untimely execution killed that idea.

That's true, Moogle. Where did Pai come from, I wonder, to have such righteous indignation? It's noted that her name is decidedly not Alethi (though the interlude also gives the excuse that she could have changed it). Perhaps I am thinking too deeply about her motivations, and she is just what she seems - a Vorin purist who is disgusted by the current state of things.

The Diagrammists certainly pushed for chaos in Jah Keved, to their advantage. It could be part of their plan, for sure. Pai also attacks the church pretty heavily, is the diagram anti Vorin? edited for spelling.

This is my first topic, so I hope you'll be kind! The interludes are some of my favorite parts of the novels, as they do an incredible job of adding color to the world of Roshar, and let us as readers see some areas we may not be able to see through the main characters. I wanted to discuss the Lhan interlude, as it relates to Jasnah's prologue. In the prologue, Jasnah was very suspicious of Elkohar's wife, Queen Aesudan. Jasnah wouldn't spy on someone she felt was worthless, yet the Lhan interlude shows the Queen as spoiled, selfish, lazy and wasteful. Why would Jasnah spy on someone like that? Is there something deeper going on with the Queen? Also, poor Pai (which of course bears resemblance to Pailah, whom Adolin references early on before his duel) I wish I had more of a formulated idea, but this interlude seems to tell more than just show us the start of the revolt in Kholinar, and I wondered if anyone else had any thoughts on the matter.

I was under the assumption that the Reshi Isles were giant, ancient great shells, vs beings made of stone. But it is possible I misinterpreted. I did have a thought as to how enormous their gem hearts must be, however.

Is there any indication that Cusicesh does anything other than come out of the ocean on a regular basis and drain people? Could he/it/she be an amalgam of Honor and Cultivation? It does rotate through male and female faces. The draining people doesn't seem particularly honorable or cultivation-y however.

Nevermind, my comment was in the original question. Ignore this post please

The one defining feature I noted about Mraize was that his hand was mangled/broken. Let me find the quote... Here it is: his right hand was scarred, the fingers crooked, as if they had been broken and badly reset. Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 494). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

I agree, I just mean that I can see both sides of the argument. I assume hold in this situation isn't physical but it shouldn't automatically be ruled out.

Brute force would have been very hard, I think, as most of us assumed 2 or 1 digits for each substitution, and from1-26, not 55 and 171

I see both sides. Hold does imply physically holding something, and Gavilar's sphere has certainly caused consternation...but it doesn't feel like a secret in and of itself....

Now what do I do with myself?

My ego wishes I was somehow involved in this, but my pragmatism tells me that I was not. All the credit to Darmad Well done!!! When I saw your post this morning, I actually thought someone had already done that, so I just kind of skipped past it. Won't make that mistake again!

Yes, that part I understand. I was referring to the secret referred to in the message itself.

I had this sitting on my computer screen, and it started becoming a jumble of nonsense because I had done various substitutions and couldn't remember what went where anymore: HOLD THE SECR E T THAT B R O 7 1 12 THE 1713 44G11 T 715142541434 T 916149149341212254 TT 125 127 T 1519 T 1112NEW1152512157W111234T11129151 2 T 61534 Thanks to Darmad for saving me from certain insanity.

The easy solution is sometimes way too complex for the over thinkers of the world

So, what's the secret?